Just sayin': Let's fire them.

[Mira]

[silvershadow]

1. This is where coattails matter. Bernie has a large following of insurgent candidates who are

vying for seats this cycle. Some of them are bound to be successful, which is why I suspect i've been reading about the possibility of taking the house back.

Not sure but I think Hillary has negative coattails.

[Mira]

2. The legacy of Mr. Sanders

if it isn't a successful Presidency, will be that he stirred up the conscience of many and will have begun the eventual inevitable revolution that sets us on a path to rebuild this country in all the ways it is broken. Hopefully it will start with more Democrats everywhere.
Hillary Clinton will never do any of that. Under the veneer of minor nods to what is needed, she is forging ahead to keep trying to win the nomination for what she thinks is rightfully hers.
Shoring up the pragmatic status quo is all a vote for her could do, or for those she rode in on.

[Hortensis]

19. Mira, with Bernie you seem to be on the right track,

but then you go way too far. Rhetoric isn't reality.

Revolution is not inevitable. Thank goodness. We may have earned the contempt of the world in a number of ways, but the blessed stability of our society is yearned for hopelessly by billions, many millions of whom will die for lack of it.

Every two and four years without fail we get another chance to peacefully and entirely legally change what we don't like. Indeed, it is our duty, though one we normally fail to meet. When our negligence does finally end up biting big holes in our indolent butts, though, we do finally hoist ourselves up and vote for real change. This is one of those times. If we get our act together, we may actually make big, big change.

As for Hillary, your rhetoric bears no relation to reality. She's no angel, as imperfect in her way as you are in yours, but good grief. Why not read a couple of books about her that are recommended by respectable scholars? You have an interest in her that has consumed a fair amount of attention, so why not develop it so you can comment knowledgeably?

[Mira]

22. Thank you

for exposing to me that I need more information in order to be at the table and converse "knowledgeably".
I'm off to read.
After "Living History" I had no appetite for reading more of Mrs. Clinton's memoirs, but "Hard Choices"is in abeyance.

As for making "actually big big change, and this being one of those blessed times we do it by getting our act together in supporting Mrs. Clinton" then I maintain that I am not the only one who has to study up to comment from a base of knowledge.

[Hortensis]

23. Ignorance is a ridiculously inadequate excuse for

believing, much less spreading, smears and even outright lies in the Information Age, but what excuse is there if that one's gone?

[Mira]

24. Whose ignorance?

Surely you are not talking about either one of us!

[George II]

3. How many of those "insurgent" candidates has Sanders campaigned for? How many of those....

...."insurgent" candidates has Sanders raised campaign funds for?

How many days has Sanders spent in Washington doing HIS job in the Senate this year?

[AlbertCat]

4. Meh....

..... at least there's no Repug Lite involved with Sanders. That's the most important thing. And he has dominated and changed the narrative.... taken that 25 year activity away from the GOP. Hillary adopting his positions after he has brought them to the fore proves that he is leading in ideas. Pretending he is doing nothing for liberals, and Hillary is, is disingenuous, as well as regurgitating the narrative you've been told to like sheep. It is just more of the same ol' same 'ol idealess unimaginative mediocre dreck we've been getting from the Third Way for too long a while.

[George II]

6. I guess "meh" is the equivalent of zero.

By the way, it's been asked countless times over the last several months, what SPECIFICALLY has Sanders actually accomplished "for liberals"? That question has never been answered.

Even this response is doing exactly what you're complaining about regarding Clinton supporters, your words, "t is just more of the same ol' same 'ol idealess unimaginative mediocre dreck we've been getting from" Sanders and his campaign.

Haven't you watched any of his stump speeches (plural, but actually unimaginatively singular)

[AlbertCat]

7. Haven't you watched any of his stump speeches

I have, but compared to Hillary speeches (the one's we're allowed to hear) for the past 30 years.... she has no ideas, no imagination, no excitement..... the most untrustworthy...

[George II]

8. I've seen several, virtually the same thing over and over again...

...."we started out at 3% in the polls", "corrupt campaign finance system", "rigged economy", "send me $27".

[turbinetree]

12. OH I watched them quite a lot-----------------------and have learned a lot...................

on how hedge fund deals being made behind closed doors are promises to protect the professional elites to think there inequality is going to be protected by Clinton, because of the scams that she helped reinforced when she was in office.

While on the Clinton side.........................we get, how she wants to get the government out of higher education and hand it over to for profit Charter Organizations, like her husband and Obama did,, because the world of Clinton says that government should not make a profit, but Hedge Funds in Charter schools should make it instead-------------rob peter to pay paul and then blame paul that your funds we took from you is all your fault----------------------nice double speak

In a other thread on my paste was considered drivel on hedge funds, well it shows what a Clinton has done and will do to these firms........................................she like to make the babble sound like something might be done---------------------hold your breath.........................

Yeah, Bernie is really trying to get "true progressives", and not DLC and Third Way supporters to see what is happening---------------But he can't -----------------I guess the Media machine being run by David Brock and others had a good start on hiding what they have done since 1992 for starters------------attacking the New Deal programs.........................and that is a fact..........................

http://prospect.org/article/what-good-are-hedge-funds

[George II]

13. Curiously much of his net worth (as reported) is invested in hedge and mutual funds.

[turbinetree]

20. What has Clinton invested in with her Hedge Funds................

[George II]

21. I don't know. Sanders has based his campaign on "corrupt Wall Street" yet he invests in...

....Wall Street. Why is that?

[kjones]

10. This is a really interesting thing I've thought about...

People who fit in the left-Sanders box (and there are far lefties who don't for sure) seem stuck
in the opinion that everything to the right of them is republican, ready to screw up the country,
etc. That's such a...strange opinion. It completely neglects "movement." Just because someone
is left or right of you doesn't mean they are X. Which way are they trying to move the country?
Now, I'm sure a lot of Bernie people are thoroughly convinced that Hillary want's to turn us into
Nazi Germany, but to anyone who is not completely off the deep end, it's pretty clear she wants
to more the country to the left...which is not exactly what you'd think a republican would want.
Pretending Hillary is a republican just because Bernie is fractionally more extreme than her is,
frankly, bullshit. It is the same as a republican, or even moderate dem, calling anyone left of
themselves a commie.

I don't even care who people support, but at least don't use ^that kind of reasoning. Sorry,
"reasoning."

[AlbertCat]

11. it's pretty clear she wants to mo(v)e the country to the left

I've been thinking too, I don't think thats "clear" at all.

It looks like to me she want a country that is basically the same, with some bandaids.

Sanders has changed the conversation. Hillary still sounds 20th century.

[kjones]

27. I keep hearing this, "He changed the conversation"...How exactly?

He butters it up differently, uses populist catchphrases, and in a few
select areas, wants to go (marginally) farther...but what has he actually
changed or added to the conversation? If anything, he's diminished
conversation down to a smaller collection of issues...such that he has
to be prodded regularly just to even get him to acknowledge issues
outside his wheelhouse. He's certainly not advanced the conversation
in terms of solutions...just about everything he says is vague, and
he fumbles or avoids questions about specifics. So primarily, he's just
contributed complaints and displeasure about things...to which I say
"no shit!," it's stuff people have been complaining about for years.
(Particularly noting that Bernie's rhetoric is recycled 20th century...)

If there's any kind of movement involved, Bernie isn't the cause.
Bernie didn't create a wave, he just rode one.
For the record, that's fine too...because after all, politicians should
be following the populaces lead, not the other way around.

[AlbertCat]

29. ...How exactly?

Oh please.

Well it may sound all 20th century to you, that's because for the 1st time since Reagan he's talking about something other than going to war to solve our problems. He's talking about how "government IS the problem" is NOT the problem.... money is. For the 1st time since Gingrich, he's reminding us that "liberal" in it's early 20th century heyday form is not a projorative.... or a pipe dream.


Try to keep up.

[mdbl]

18. When I read a post like yours

I have to wonder how much Hillary will shift the country to the left. Bill already did a bang-up job shifting it to the right. Hillary did a bang-up job sucking up to the big money interests during her political career. Don't insult those who have been watching this all go down the toilet for the last 40 years by using this Nazi crap. No one I know even made that comparison. It insults anyone who possesses an intellect.

[kjones]

26. Cool...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1024&pid=11958

Oh yeah, I forgot the other one...calling people stupid. You guys love to do that.

[mdbl]

28. well, the bait you're throwing is certainly stupid

nuff said!

[hfojvt]

5. I kind of like it when Republicans do nothing

it tends to beat the alternative.

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking of new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." George W. Bush, accidentally telling the truth.

[mwooldri]

14. Agreed. Let the Repubs in NC do nothing except...

Repeal HB2. Then do nothing more. Cant do much more damage then.

[Dalai_1]

9. K&R n/t

[2naSalit]

15. We should probably

demand our money back for every day they weren't doing their jobs from way back seven + years ago. Talk about takers!

[ErikJ]

16. Nothing except 30 hrs a week dialing for dollars.

In the building across the street. Congress has become a telemarketing organization for big money.

[Petrushka]

17. ^^ Exactly! ^^

Highest paid telemarketers on the planet!

[Katashi_itto]

25. Meh. Hillary doesnt need my vote.

Munches popcorn.