HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Man imprisoned for 28 YEA...

Tue Apr 26, 2016, 11:42 PM

 

Man imprisoned for 28 YEARS after woman dreamed that he raped her to be freed

Man imprisoned for 28 YEARS after woman dreamed that he raped her to be freed after another man confesses

A man imprisoned for 28 years after a woman said she dreamed that he raped her could be freed after a Denver judge overturned his conviction, saying he would likely be acquitted at a new trial because someone else confessed to the crime.

Clarence Moses-EL was convicted in 1988 and sentenced to 48 years in prison for raping and assaulting a woman when she returned home from a night of drinking. When police initially asked who attacked her, she named the man who later confessed.

More than a day after the assault, while in the hospital, the woman identified Moses-EL as her attacker, saying his face came to her in a dream.

Moses-EL has long claimed he was innocent. But his efforts to appeal his conviction were unsuccessful, in part because Denver police threw away DNA evidence from the attack. Police destroyed body swabs and the victim's clothing despite a judge's order to preserve it for testing that could have confirmed Moses-EL's guilt or innocence.

How fucked up is this?


So, let me get this right.

1: Woman gets drunk.
2: Woman gets raped.
3: Woman has dream about attacker.
4: DNA evidence is thrown out.
5: Man loses 28 years of his life.
6: Man is actually innocent.
7: Instead of being freed, Colorado decides to retry him for a crime he didn't commit.

Am I the only one who sees a major fucking problem here?

I hope he sues the pants off everyone involved, even the victim, who clearly lied!

33 replies, 2855 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply Man imprisoned for 28 YEARS after woman dreamed that he raped her to be freed (Original post)
Feeling the Bern Apr 2016 OP
Democat Apr 2016 #1
Feeling the Bern Apr 2016 #2
Skittles Apr 2016 #3
C Moon Apr 2016 #4
nxylas Apr 2016 #5
Xipe Totec Apr 2016 #6
Oneironaut Apr 2016 #15
The2ndWheel Apr 2016 #18
ohnoyoudidnt Apr 2016 #25
nxylas Apr 2016 #26
TipTok Apr 2016 #28
Enthusiast Apr 2016 #7
Ohio Joe Apr 2016 #8
mythology Apr 2016 #9
Ohio Joe Apr 2016 #10
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #11
GummyBearz Apr 2016 #19
LanternWaste Apr 2016 #20
GummyBearz Apr 2016 #21
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2016 #13
Ohio Joe Apr 2016 #16
muriel_volestrangler Apr 2016 #17
Downtown Hound Apr 2016 #14
Ohio Joe Apr 2016 #22
Downtown Hound Apr 2016 #23
TorchTheWitch Apr 2016 #31
Downtown Hound Apr 2016 #32
Act_of_Reparation Apr 2016 #12
malaise Apr 2016 #24
bermudat Apr 2016 #27
TipTok Apr 2016 #30
Bradical79 Apr 2016 #29
KamaAina Apr 2016 #33

Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 12:03 AM

1. Evidence is important

Many people are willing to convict without evidence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Democat (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 12:06 AM

2. She had a dream. Isn't that enough?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 12:21 AM

3. considering the percentage of rapes that actually end in a conviction of ANY kind

the premise sounds utterly ridiculous

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 12:41 AM

4. It's fucked up AND scary. Wow!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 12:46 AM

5. Aaaand he's African-American

I somehow knew that was the case even before I saw his photo. I must be clairvoyant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 12:59 AM

6. THAT is so deeply embarrassing to me

I just don't know where to hide my face.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nxylas (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:49 AM

15. Every time something like this happens, they're always black.

Every time. It's like clockwork.

Racism is dead

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Oneironaut (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:59 AM

18. Maybe eveyone involved in this was black?

Is the woman black? Are the other people she named black? Maybe they're not, I don't know, but saying it's racism with no information is like putting a guy in jail based on a dream.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 01:47 PM

25. I don't know about the others involved, but somehow I doubt the jury was black.

Either way, the case is really messed up. It's very disturbing how innocent people can get convicted with no real evidence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 04:15 PM

26. The victim might not have been motivated by racism

But how likely is it that a white man would have been convicted and served 28 years in prison based on such flimsy "evidence"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 04:34 PM

28. A moderate google search turns up zilch for the identity of the woman...

 

Just that she was a neighbor a few houses down.

Convenient that she kept her privacy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 02:52 AM

7. This is fucking horrible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 05:12 AM

8. YEAH... Lets never believe a woman who was raped again!!1!

Or maybe... We could look at a slightly less MRA-ish source of what happened in this old case.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29298107/man-granted-new-trial-denver-rape-case-due

It's a shame what happened to this guy but blaming the victim is just as shitty.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 05:29 AM

9. She is responsible for her testimony

 

And in this case, the guy who just spent 28 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit is the victim. Is she the only one responsible for that? No. But she is partially responsible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mythology (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 05:32 AM

10. YEAH... Never believe a woman who is beaten and raped!!1!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:32 AM

11. oh FFS

victims of crimes can be wrong about who committed them. No one is saying she wasn't raped, but finding the correct perpetrator is important, wouldn't you say?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 11:07 AM

19. Nah

 

If there is a crime against a female you just need to find any male and convict them ASAP. He is guilty by gender association. Case closed

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GummyBearz (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 11:11 AM

20. It's fun to pretend as much... regardless of how absurd the pretension may be.

 

It's fun to pretend as much... regardless of how absurd the pretension may be. Doing so certainly allows one to validate their biases.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 11:14 AM

21. There are multiple biases in this case

 

So I'm not sure which you are referring to. Could be the male thing, or that it was a black male. Either way, he deserves justice for his lost time

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:45 AM

13. No, the OP is not 'MRA-ish' at all

The same problem is in your link too:

In 1987, when police, her sister and a neighbor asked who had attacked her, the woman gave three possibilities: "LC, Earl, Darnell." A couple of days later, however, she told police for the first time that Moses-EL, a neighbor, was her attacker.

His identity had come to her in a dream, she said.
...
With help from fellow inmates, Moses-EL collected enough money to conduct DNA testing on the evidence. A judge approved the request, but police mistakenly destroyed the evidence before it could be analyzed

Pointing out they used evidence from her dream, and that she had earlier named other people, and that the evidence that could have exonerated him, is not 'MRA'. It was the victim who named him, and from a dream. She does bear some of the responsibility for his conviction, though the prosecutors and police should have said "dreams don't count".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:52 AM

16. 1 woman gets drunk

Nuf said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:55 AM

17. Which is relevant to why she gave 3 names to identify who might have raped her

and why the 4th name she gave would be no better as evidence - though coming 'in a dream' should have meant it was ignored completely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:47 AM

14. No one ever said let's never believe a woman who was raped

In fact, no one ever said they didn't believe the woman at all. Maybe that was the problem. It should take more than a dream to steal somebody's life away from them. Cops are well aware that eyewitness accounts are notoriously inaccurate, yet in this case, they threw out all physical evidence and relied solely on a dream. Yeah, some great police work there, boys.

And I'm going to argue that this innocent man that had his life stolen from him is just as big if not a bigger victim than she is here. At least his pursuit of justice didn't ruin an innocent person's life. She may be a victim but she also wrongfully destroyed somebody's life. Victim or not, she bears some responsibility for that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 11:18 AM

22. No... She does not

That she had a dream was one bit that she told investigators. It was not the sole evidence that got a conviction. I would bet it had no impact on the juries guilty verdict. The woman did not make the arrest, bring the charges, try the case, come up with a verdict or pass the sentance. She does not bear any responsibilty for what happened to the guy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 01:42 PM

23. If you wrongfully finger somebdoy, especially based on a dream

then yes, you share some responsibility for what happened. Sorry. I do believe that the majority of the blame lies with the police, but she's not free and clear. Being a victim does not absolve you of responsibility for your actions for the rest of your life. You seem to think the fact that she was raped means that she can say anything about anybody and it's okay because she's a victim. Do you have any sympathy for the man who lost most of his life due to this woman's dream other than saying "it sucks what happened to him?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 06:50 PM

31. I'm curious as to why you think she wrongfully fingered him on purpose?

or that she had "fingered" him at all?

It was dark, she'd had too much to drink, she was having her face bashed in while being raped leaving her permanently blinded in one eye. Why do you imagine that she EVER could have gotten a good enough look at the perp going through all that? And when in her nightmares about the incident this innocent person's face appeared as the perp... she very well could have BELIEVED that was who it was. Acute trauma can do very fucked up things to peoples' minds.

What went wrong here was the police/DA's office. She TOLD people that one of three men could have been the perp. One of those three men she first named, Jackson, was questioned and TOLD investigators that the day of the attack he "had sex with her" and hit her. Then he later denied that. She did the right thing telling the police about who the man in her nightmares about the incident was. It wasn't HER fault if she believed that herself, or that she told the police that... it was the police/DA's office that ran with it, and wrongfully shaped the case around that while "losing" physical evidence, ignoring the fact that the innocent man convicted had a blood type that did NOT match that of the evidence (the DNA evidence wasn't part of the trial as there was no such thing at that time... it was introduced after the conviction, and a new trial was denied because the evidence was "lost", and that the ACTUAL perp confessed to "having sex with her" and HITTING her THAT day.

The DA's office focused on the wrong man, even when the mostly likely one to have committed the crime was known. Imagining that it was her nightmare that was ALL of the evidence presented is ridiculous, and we don't know if she BELIEVED that she had fingered the right person or not, and I have no doubt that the police/DA's office did everything they possibly could to convince her that the man she saw in her nightmares was the perp, and of COURSE they would have put an expert on the stand swearing that what she recollected from her nightmares was what in FACT occurred.

This is hardly the first time a DA's office has gone after the "easier" suspect rather than the most likely one. It's par for the course, and once they get a conviction they AND judges are loath to admit they might have screwed up. They DON'T CARE if the wrong person goes to jail as long as SOMEONE does.

After what this poor woman went through, she's the LAST person to blame especially when the police had a FAR more likely suspect that admitted to having "had sex with her" and hit her THAT DAY and was also one of the three men she first named. Blame the system, blame the asshole that raped and beat her so badly, lied about it, and went on to rape again only having a "come to Jesus" moment 28 years later while in prison for having done it again and who knows how many more times in the intervening years. The poor innocent man that's taken the rap all these years isn't blaming her. Why are you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:51 PM

32. I blame her because it's stupid to rely on dreams

Dreams are not reality. If she had a hard time seeing her attacker then that's what her story should have been, not "I dreamed about this one guy doing it."

Beyond that, I agree with you that this was an idiotic prosecution, and that's where most of the blame lies.

Hey! Last night I had a dream that it was this one guy who broke into my fiancÚ's house a few years ago. Maybe I'll go tell the cops about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 10:41 AM

12. "Clearly"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 01:43 PM

24. I only have one question

Is he African-American?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 04:20 PM

27. Hmmm, I'm guessing yes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 04:41 PM

30. Weren't the other men that she named also AA?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 04:34 PM

29. I can't agree with suing the victim

 

A woman who has gone through the most traumatic experiences possible can't be blamed for some mental instability. The brain does weird things to try to sort out information. I think this can be laid 100% on the police, prosecutor, the original judge, and the jury for taking "I saw his face in a dream" as enough reason to get a guy locked up. There's no way that statement should have convinced any of these people that a case should proceed against him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Feeling the Bern (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:56 PM

33. Our long national nightmare is over.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread