Update: First they took the manufacturing jobs and I didn't complain

[Fresh_Start]

Update: First they took the manufacturing jobs and I didn't complain
Posted by NYCALIZ in General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010)
Thu Nov 04th 2010, 04:44 PM
because I wasn't in manufacturing labor and foreign electronics and clothing were cheaper and cars were more reliable.

Then they took the IT jobs and I didn't complain because I wasn't in IT and it meant that US companies had beefier bottom lines (my stock portfolio was booming)

Then they took the teleservice jobs and I didn't complain because I wasn't in teleservice and I almost never need customer service

Then they busted the unions and I didn't complain because I wasn't in a union and why do union workers deserve more than I have.

Then they took the medical tech jobs and I didn't complain because I wasn't in medical tech and I think too many people have too many medical tests.

Then they told us we needed to go to India to get surgery and I didn't complain because I didn't need surgery and my medical insurance premiums were lower,

So corporate profits are looking fine and there are lots of cheap foreign goods to buy.
But more than 15% of my fellow citizens are un/under employed and the US Chamber of Commerce is telling my children to move overseas for career opportunities.

Those cheap electronics weren't so cheap after all.

[nationalize the fed]

1. k&r excellent post

Wall street loves the destruction of US manufacturing.

[Baobab]

45. read this

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTRANETTRADE/Resources/C13.pdf

[highprincipleswork]

2. Who'll stop the rain?

[HeartoftheMidwest]

3. Excellent post.

"But more than 15% of my fellow citizens are un/under employed."

I suspect that the true number is higher.

[Baobab]

46. By midcentury i expect almost full unemployment

Since the GATS and TiSA are privatizing education everywhere.

[HeartoftheMidwest]

50. Add to that the probable damage from corporate friendly trade deals....

..and there will be no jobs either. Unless there are jobs mitigating and adapting to the horrid climate we may have by then.

[ReRe]

4. There you go..

... hits the issue right on the nail head. Brings it all home in 17-18 lines. Thanks for sharing that. History as prose. So many lives affected.

[TheFarseer]

5. Will anyone in our corrupt government stand up

For American workers?

[Cassiopeia]

35. Not as long as we keep voting for those corrupt politicians.

[Baobab]

47. How could Hillary fight her husband's trade agreement when it made him so popular around the world

even though the negotiations for that part have not even been completed yet.

[Cassiopeia]

48. She won't even try.

Hillary as POTUS will increase job exports and labor imports.

[rhett o rick]

6. I am confused. You support Hillary and those that came for our shit. nm

[Fresh_Start]

13. You aren't reading it closely enough

the current situation is the result of human greed.
Not corporate greed, human greed.

Every one of us makes selfish decisions,
use a self-checkout to save 5 minutes
order books from amazon because its simple and fast
buy the neat doodad without considering where its manufactured or if we really need it at all
buying bottles of water because its convenient
holding a 20,000 people rally ..when a podcast or webcast would also work and have less pollution

I wrote that piece after a completely disheartening midterm election where people couldn't be bothered to show up to vote...for their own selfish reasons. And I hear the same crap today.

We are all failing to look out for one another.
We are failing to listen to one another and find solutions that work better for all of us
Bernie supporters are not less selfish than Hillary supporters.
There are no saints here. There are no saints in politics.

[Silver_Witch]

25. Actually there are a few who are trying....

I have not shopped at WalMart for 20+ years.
I walk to work everyday and take the bus home (only because it is dark when I head home)
I never use a "self-serve" teller, nor will I use one at the doctors office where they try to get us to use them
I protest WAR in public regularly
I vote for the CANDIDATE that is best for the common man, who provides and cares for the people
I recycle
I use my bath water to water my garden


There you go....many of us are real people who try.....

It is the Corporations that are in control....we can only take out small bites.

I stand with Bernie

[Baobab]

60. That stuff has less to do with neoliberalism than many other things do.

>I vote for the CANDIDATE that is best for the common man, who provides and cares for the people

Except that candidate has been too timid about explaining whats really going on to the country, so he's losing, a race which we absolutely cannot afford to see lost- because these deals are PERMANENT- no future president will eb able to undo them- Read the paper in my sig to see whats already happened with health care- 20 years of dysfunction, for a reason which almost nobody knows-


Did you know that neoliberalism has made it so our voting is on the verge now almost, of becoming an empty gesture by taking away the real power to change the important economic things from the president, senate and congress, literally capturing all policy of importance and forcing the future, forever into a broken painfully wrong economic model?

Want to know what neoliberalism is? Read the paper linked to in my .sig below- (the almost invisible grey text) download the PDF and read it, its about health care. You'll learn a lot. Similar principles apply to education, water and all kinds of jobs- because they are the other side of the equation, the trade in people.

maybe thats what you meant to talk about.

here are some additional random bookmarks I have tagged with the word 'neoliberalism' in my browser bookmarks - they would be good companions to the paper in my .sig

http://www.iatp.org/files/GATS_and_Public_Service_Systems.htm

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/cpr/gats/terry_symp_iss_2003.authcheckdam.pdf

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/National_Office_Pubs/2005/divide_and_conquer.pdf

http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/594806/former-disney-it-worker-congress-how-can-allow/

http://www.iatp.org/blog/201602/obama-undermines-climate-efforts-in-solar-trade-dispute

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/will-the-gats-close-on-higher-education/article8042337.ece

[Silver_Witch]

64. I am happy to read your links Baobab...

although I am not really sure what it means - learning is a good thing.

[Carolina]

62. Love your post

I weed my yard by hand to avoid corporate sprays that poison the earth
I reuse all glass containers rather than buy disposable plastic storage items
I never use the self-serve teller either. I knew someone who was murdered at an ATM years ago when they were just sidewalk walk-up places where the person had his/her back to the world. As a result, I never used one, ever... don't even know how to. I always get what I call my 'cash stash' from a teller. Once a young teller told me all the things I could do online and directed me to the ATM to get my cash. I smiled and replied "then you won't have a job." Now, he always greets me warmly.

I stand with Bernie, too

[Silver_Witch]

63. Hugs Carolina!!!

I am Melodie - so pleased to meet a like minded soul.

[Baobab]

65. the manufacturing jobs are coming back but they are going to be automated

And the service jobs are being traded away via mode four for mode three concessions in the developing world.

Or remote by means of cross border data flows.

Save money!

Not just for yourselves, for all your future descendants.

[PowerToThePeople]

29. Neo-liberal "let the markets decide"

I am not going to delve into the MANY ways that philosophy is bullshit. Any left leaner should already have a good handle on why it is crap.

[Baobab]

49. Its a losing battle. most unskilled jobs will be gone in 15-20 years

Its pointless to blame automation as that is a natural process.

What needs to happen is we need to evoolve beyond the system that is showing its age and into the next phase of our journey which is a society where money s not everything.

So why are we signing these 3 new secret trade deals that try to lock us into forever this world where money is everything, eliminating compassion?

And why dont we dump all the old ones as they are causing major damage to society.

At least 1 million Americans have died because of GATS.

[FreakinDJ]

52. IT and Programming are Unskilled Jobs?

It's the Corp Tax Code that makes this Highly Profitable

[Baobab]

59. Its my understanding that by definition, the various programs that use L-1 visa holders are supposed

to be for "skilled" workers only. But in practice it seems that most of them aren't so much. They have to have a degree, a 4 year degree, but they are often close to entry level, they are the people who a decade or so would have been taken by a college grad or a really good self taught person at the beginning of their career. the motivation is lower wages. They literally can get four workers for what they would normally pay for one.

Businesses that specialize in a computer based product would be less likely to hire them, they basically get the jobs in non-computing centric industries that require a warm body there and a medium level of computer skill. Sure, they do coding, that is why they are there.

Yes, that is the unskilled job of the future. Not so far into the future, software will write most software.

Most unskilled jobs are going away, within the next two or three decades, for good. To get and keep a stable job somebody is going to have to command their area, their niche and the niche they command will likely need to be much closer to unique than today.

Almost nobody "gets" this unless they work (or have worked in the past) on a day to day basis with cutting edge technology or close to it. People who do, don't need to be told that technology is improving at an exponentially increasing rate, they live it.

The GATS, in particular, with its Mode Four can be thought of a huge global trade of jobs for markets - a cynical global poker game with peoples lives. With its goal being perserving the concentration of wealth at the top by means of deception and a divide and conquer strategy.

To understand it, one needs to understand that 20 years ago trade negotiators thought that the developing countries would see 20 or 30 years of rapid, even meteoric growth. Due to their lower penetration of automation, rapid increases in spending power, people buying the necessities of modern life for the first time, and mobile capital investing there to take advantage of the growth.

But I think they are realizing now that the period of growth will be much shorter and less robust. And the impact on our own country of trading all those jobs away will be potentially devastating. Economic implosion.

Thats why endorsing the wife of the man who signed us into that horrible deal is a mistake.

[LanternWaste]

34. Bless your heart. Of course you're confused.

Bless your heart. Of course you're confused.

[trc]

7. I protest on a much smaller scale

I refuse to use the self checkouts in any store, and tell them so when they ask. This is a stupid little protest on my part that will impact nothing but I understand that although these may be low wage jobs they are jobs. I read recently that the CEO of Carl's Junior said he would go fully automated if he had to pay his employees a real living minimum wage. Mcdonalds was trying out a centralized drive through order system that would have been located in Indiana. These are all small jobs and low income but many folks depend on these jobs...if they all disappear who will buy what these folks used to sell? We are all interdependent in our own communities and even minor job losses can have much larger ripple effects

[LiberalElite]

8. I won't use self-checkouts either -

Why help corporations eliminate jobs?

[Recursion]

17. Google just opened a new campus in India and was not allowed to buy a lawn mower

Because a lawn mower means one groundskeeper can cut as much grass as four can with hand shears.

For that matter, why not make ditch diggers use spoons rather than shovels?

[LiberalElite]

18. and your point is? nt

[Recursion]

19. That trying to preserve jobs that have been made obsolete by technology is a losing game (nt)

[LiberalElite]

20. I will continue to fight that "losing game" nt

[laundry_queen]

27. Huge difference.

I'm against stores trying to outsource their labor hour dollars to ME. Fuck that. I'm already being screwed out of compensation for my labor. It's just an added bonus that not going to self checkouts saves jobs. Anyhow, a Canadian consumer advocacy show did an experiment and found self checkouts generally slower if you have more than a few items. And there were more scanning errors. No thank you.

Hand shears are better for the environment anyway.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

40. NEVER use the self checkouts!

And when some "assistant manager" tries to usher me into one with his/her help, I refuse and tell them why.

[Urchin]

57. I agree

I avoid self-checkouts too.

For one, it's a form of "Shadow Work" where they are making you, the customer, do the work that a store employee used to do for you.

And for another, self-checkouts eliminate jobs for people for whom being a cashier may be the only job they can get.

And finally, technology is eliminating jobs for cashiers today, but tomorrow it will be your career technology eliminates, either by outright replacing humans or by enabling your job to be done on the other side of the world.

Thanks in large part to technology, the majority of Americans can no longer feel at all safe financially, not just because their job might be eliminated, but because their very career might be eliminated.

And it's hard to see it coming. You think those taxi dispatchers saw Uber coming? Those taxi dispatchers probably laughed at the thought of technology replacing them, "Oh," they must have thought, "I can see it now, a robot walking in the door and taking my place by the telephone. Ha, ha, ha."

[jwirr]

10. I do that also. I would rather stand in line for a clerk than

use the self check lines.

[DVRacer]

11. And here I thought it was just me

Nope I refuse to take a job away. I miss "bag boys" at the store too I always tipped a dollar or two for helping get the groceries in the car.

[OrwellwasRight]

14. Me too! I won't ever use those damn self service things.

[Skittles]

9. I have been complaining since day one

[840high]

12. Yet you support Hillary. Confusing.

[Fresh_Start]

16. I've been pro people before it was fashionable

I'm anti-violence including anti-gun and anti-war.
I find both candidates flawed
But believe that Clinton has a slightly better chance of improving things than Sanders.

[LiberalElite]

21. If only she wanted to improve things eom

[Fresh_Start]

22. I have no doubt she does want to improve things

I also have no doubt that Bernie wants to improve things

But I think Clinton can get more accomplished.

[LiberalElite]

23. Really, the candidate of It's too hard! We can't!

and - how much do you think Republicans will cooperate with her? It'll make the last several years with Obama look like a walk in the park.

Plus, whatever is accomplished by her will be for her owners on Wall Street.

[Enthusiast]

32. Huge +1!

[bahrbearian]

36. +2

[eridani]

30. Trade agreements and cutting Social Security? No thanks n/t

[Urchin]

15. They can inflate the money supply without you noticing, because of cheap imports

The low cost of imported goods and services has enabled the government to tell us that inflation is almost nonexistent.

But the cost of those things that are most essential to life and which are also still supplied domestically, has SKYROCKETED.

The price of a home, the price of a college education, the price of health and other insurance, the price of transportation, the price of energy, the price of medical care (including the dentist) have all skyrocketed.

Because the government's been printing money for years and is able to tell you there's no inflation because cheap imports keep costs down.

But the cost of life's essentials--I can do without the latest electronic gizmo, but I need medical care, education, a roof over my head, etc., more than a cheap throw-away telephone or smartphone.

Thanks to the cheap imports, the government can keep the borrow and spending party going, so the wealthy can inflate the price of real estate and other assets (while people who bought their homes and started 401K's decades ago, have their modest gains serve as bribes to vote for those who will encourage the borrow and spend approach to economics, instead of America's original model of how to achieve prosperity: hard work and thrift.

Meanwhile younger people are being screwed over because they don't benefit from asset inflation. And its unlikely when they buy a house that they will see the price of their house increase like the people who bought their houses years ago.

If we still made stuff in this country, a Kmart men's sportshirt would probably cost $150 and there would have been no way the government could have told us there was no inflation. But hey, look at the prices of the other stuff I mentioned and wake up: the economy's been designed to funnel as much as possible of inflation into assets like stocks and real estate.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

41. The price of food has skyrocketed, too!

I can remember when we could grill steaks 3 or 4 times a month for a "date at home."

Now? Only on special occasions like an anniversary or birthday!

[Doremus]

54. If they shrink product sizes any further they'll be miniature

It's crazy. Toilet paper has gotten so skimpy and the rolls are about half as long as they used to be. Same with paper towels. Prices still go higher even as they make the packages smaller.

Corporate America thinks we're a bunch of idiots cause we sit back and take it without so much as a peep.

In that regard they're right I'm afraid.

[Egnever]

24. They didn't do anything

We chose to buy cheap shit.

[rusty quoin]

26. Yes. It's been going on my whole adult life.

They have trapped us into the need to buy cheaper stuff, while creating a system where we work only service jobs, by reducing the wages of skilled jobs. I think by now it should be and old story.

[Bayard]

28. Heard from my little brother today

He's just lost his job of 20+ years. Does some type of metals machining. Of course, good Repuglican that he is, he blames the loss on Obama, and is voting for Trump next wk in Indiana. Don't know how we ended up on opposite ends of the political spectrum. My mom was a life-long Democrat. I try to reason with him, but he's pretty closed minded about it. Good thing I love him!

[Enthusiast]

31. New. World. Order. Eat your peas.

[HughBeaumont]

33. While the price of tchotchkes went down, necessities skyrocketed . . .

. . . and wages? Well, they remained the same. A nice flat line since 1981.

That's the problem.

[abelenkpe]

37. Interesting

I like this post but it seems to be in direct conflict with a previous post of yours:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511755002

"The US middle class is in the top 1% of the world economically.

As liberals, shouldn't we be equally concerned about the other human beings on our planet?
Shouldn't we be willing to share the wealth and the jobs and the industries with other countries and peoples?

We have been very privileged...and like the silver spoon portion of our society, most of that good fortune has been an accident of birth rather than something we have earned.

Trade agreements in spite of their ugly local side effects are good for the worlds populations.

The problem is not disruption due to trade agreements, it's the failure of the social safety net including job training and housing/food assistance.

We shouldn't be trade isolationists any more than we should be political isolationist."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

What happened? Did you recently change your mind? One ugly side of trade agreements is how jobs are traded away to open up markets to corporations. Which you appear to recognize with this latest OP. What changed?

[Fresh_Start]

38. Its not actually in direct conflict

you are reading it as protectionistic
While I've been pro-union since my first job in the 80s,
I'm writing it from the perspective that we need to care about how our choices impact other people.

If you read more of my posts, I keep arguing that we should be understanding that people of good character can make different decisions.

I've been pro-union, pro-environment, pro-tolerance, anti-poverty my entire life.
I'm also concerned about the state of people in other countries....
My reading on international trade is that it helps alleviate poverty, especially for women.
Women are beginning to emerge from being chattel and a burden to their families to be sold into marriage slavery into people who have their own worth.

I don't diminish the suffering in the USA.
But I also don't overlook the suffering in other parts of the world.

[Baobab]

61. Well, thats what the trade deals do, they effectuate a massive redistribution of wealth away from th

allegedly overpaid middle class and working class in the US. So that those at the very top can continue to take more and more of a shrinking pie, and so the developing countries workers get something, and not nothing..

Without the people in developing countries being totally left out. So they will get a long discussed, long delayed opportunity that did not exist before to compete with us, here, for the same jobs, and whomever's firm bids the lowest, wins the work.

Big chunks of the public sector must be privatized to make that possible, so any new public anything is forbidden, that deal was made 20 years ago, they just forgot to tell us, it blocks and New Deals too.


Its a giant global trade of jobs for markets.

[Urchin]

55. You want to help the world?

"If you want to do good, you must first make yourself strong."

And keep yourself strong.

Further, it's actually not selfish to make a good life for yourself. You first need to be the change you hope to see in the world.

And in any case, I'm not so sure that helping other peoples live our planet-destroying, disease-causing industrial lifestyle is doing them any favors.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

39. Really depends on whose ox is being gored, heh?

Apparently, there's not a lot of people on this site who grew up with other family members hard at work in the construction industry. Most of those jobs are held by undocumented immigrants hard at work, now.

And when my cousin's offshore job went south during the eighties oil glut, he moved he and his family to Florida and and they worked hard to start a successful landscape business. That, too, went south a few years later with undocumented immigrants commanding most of that market.

Cheap labor has been putting Americans out of work for decades.

My husband's job will likely be outsourced or H1-b'ed within the next few months. He is the only American left on a team of twelve people. And, yeah, he's at an age where it will be very difficult to find another good paying job.

It sucks, but this is the new reality.

[Fresh_Start]

42. I want to change how our government spends our tax money

spend it to support native business.
Make the country or state more self-reliant.
Sponsor local businesses to fulfill contracts.

Even if the cost is higher or the time delay is longer, why shouldn't we promote our own businesses.

[forjusticethunders]

43. UBI is the answer.

As a first step towards socialism.

[Fresh_Start]

44. It would certainly help nt

nt

[Soxfan58]

51. You can have a impact on this issue!

Buy American Made when at all possible.

[appalachiablue]

53. ~ FIRST THEY CAME FOR THE MFG. JOBS..NOTE TO COPY.

[silvershadow]

56. I have been wanting to REc this for days. Now done. nt

[joshcryer]

58. The xenophobia is real with this one.