General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen are we ever, as a people, going to start to _try_ to make this country less miserable
and a happier place to live?
We slave away, with little to no vacation, we pay the equivalent of the cost of a very expensive new car for every kids' education (or the cost of a house, depending on where they go), our economic lives are ruined if we get sick, our rich commit crimes with no consequence, and our corporations write the rules that govern our daily existence.
Meanwhile, in France, Germany, Scandinavia, and many other places, people are much more free to pursue their happiness, raise their families, have excellent educations, and simply _exist_ without having to go begging to their corporate overlords at every turn.
The slavery mindset that is this country's original sin has never left our bloodstream, from the desire for cheap/free/forced labor that fires every employer's imagination, to the servile mentality of our workers.
Cmon, let's stand up on our hind legs and demand better. The humans and the pigs are getting harder and harder to tell apart.
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,713 posts)From an early Bernie speech which explains it.
They told white workers who were earning pennies an hour, Hey, you think youre in trouble, but youre better off than the blacks,' he said. And they told straight people, Youre better off than those gay people. And they pitted men against women. Its always playing one group against another. Thats how the rich got richer while everybody else was fighting each other. Our job is to build a nation in which we all stand together.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)I read something fairly compelling which explains why the lower income white population supports the GOP.
We on the left think that they are making irrational decisions voting against their own interests.
But there's reason to believe that they are getting their 'value' from the GOP.
The GOP creates targets for these people to feel superior to.
And the not being the bottom of the social barrel is rewarding to them.
Its their self-esteem.
We have an amazing ability to demean each other.
You can see it here on DU.
I"m a real democrat, you're a DINO or a republican.
You're a neoliberal.
You're destroying the world.
The PTB delight in our inability to see our common humanity.
As long as we are at each others throats, we aren't bothering them.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)I keeping hoping its outsiders trying to wreck havoc...
but sadly I think that is only part of the explanation.
We have no respect for differences of opinion.
Anyone who disagrees with ME, is a hopelessly flawed excuse for a human being
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Free stuff comments. It hurts. When you genuinely want to try and find a way to make things better. When you have friends that left this country, and say holy shit - the grass isn't greener, it's golden. We should at least try, not pound each other down with nasty "free stuff" comments, devoid of critical thinking or effort to communicate. Filled with the intent to just give up and go home.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)losing. It is the height of ignorant capitalism. FFS, just a brief look at the wealth distribution curves should startle all of Americans, but it seeming falls on death ears.
robbob
(3,527 posts)...right before the LA Olympics, I believe, where the catch line was something about the silver medal just meant you were the first "loser" in the race. I.e. nothing matters except coming in first.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)trof
(54,256 posts)Kablooie
(18,626 posts)Their "Christian" values make them proud to sacrifice their own happiness in order to bring more misery to those they disagree with.
malthaussen
(17,187 posts)... the Germans would not have found it necessary to invent the word "schadenfreude."
Typical, I'll grant you. Unique, hardly.
-- Mal
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)But it took Americans to write a song about it.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)About them European socialist (RRRUUUNNN!!!!) countries.
Propaganda is effective and media keeps that wall up. Though McPravda is believed less and less so we do have hope. The seeds are there. They are laying root. We might not see it though
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)Here in New York; the restaurants are buzzing; there are lines for Broadway and off-broadway shows; there are people playing softball in the parks; people are shopping for things that you would not call "essentials". I'm not disputing that there is a segment of the population that's struggling, but "miserable" is a bit over the top.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)the deprivations and desperation of your fellows.
I'm glad that Manhattan is doing well, and that it successfully hides the problems of the economic also-rans from your eyes.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)...I live in a neighborhood with a significant share of rental apartments, next to a working class muslim area, and just down the street from from working class African American retail. I go to restaurants where the entrees are under $20 and ride the subway with just about everybody. Sorry I don't meet up with your stereotypes.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)Sorry I mis-located your bubble.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)The top-hats and gowns were retired 50 years ago. Most attendees are middle class tourists from Iowa.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)I do not dispute that.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)Again, how fortunate for you.
And I'm asking that things be made "less miserable". Not stating that _everything_ _is_ miserable.
But to the extant that there is misery, and you'd be a fool to argue that there is none, we should work together to lessen it.
If things are fine for you today, again, that's great for you.
SusanLarson
(284 posts)...how they could support Hillary Clinton! LOL!
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Response to Sunlei (Reply #59)
vkkv This message was self-deleted by its author.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)sammythecat
(3,568 posts)while reading this little exchange. The connection came immediately to mind.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)While calling the nation as a whole "miserable" is hyperbolic, the sad truth is we are in a deep decline with no bottom at site, we have many more living below the poverty line than ever before, college is prohibitively costly and for all intents and purposes inaccessible for many, the same is still true re: health care, better paying jobs are being replaced with lesser paying jobs or not at all, many millions of people work two or more jobs with no benefits and no vacations. So we are actually talking probably 100 million or more people in comparatively miserable shape economically and lifestyle-wise. That is not hyperbolic, that is just plain fact.
The OP has a legitimate point. It's just that some of us care about the point and too many still do not or not enough to call for drastic change. Instead they prefer their comfort zone aka status quo.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)I see many people struggling
Nay
(12,051 posts)through southern states out to Montana. The state of the small cities and towns is just unbelievable. We saw whole small towns that had fallen into near-ruin, where even a burned-out house was not torn down and removed. I just can't even describe how ruined everything looks out there.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I see struggling every day. People out of work not finding jobs. College graduates working for min wage with no hope for home ownership or retirement. I work at a foodbank and the numbers are growing and the donations (from the working class) are dying. We see more and more people living on the streets and in there cars and temporary tent cities. And it's much worse elsewhere like Detroit and Flint. A couple very close to me lost their home. You may not think that is miserable but they do. When you lose a house your credit is ruined and it's very difficult to find a rental. But I guess as long as you aren't miserable you can pretend no one is.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)So this Upton Sinclair quote comes into play:
treestar
(82,383 posts)Are there not a lot of people employed by business enterprises?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)He's posted in the past that his wife is a lawyer for a firm on Wall Street, so he literally relies on Wall Street for income.
My income comes from my employer, which is not a stock market/commodities market/financial investment/etc firm. If Wall Street gets regulated again, it does not harm my income.
840high
(17,196 posts)for work - any work - for past two years.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)are at a 30 year high.
I don't have to rely on my opinions or unique thoughts or perspective. That's straight from the CDC.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db241.htm
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)don't know how to respond to that lunacy, and I appreciate the data.
malaise
(268,931 posts)Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Next time you leave your house, please come back and post the exact count of homeless people you saw while out, extra points if you have to actually step over them.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)New York is Wall Street. We out here are on Main Street where. None or next to none of the Wall Street cream flowed down to us.
So if you are feeling good in New York, just stop and think about why.
The problem is disparity in wealth, not lack of growth in the economy.
Wealthy people and wealthy areas of the country are flourishing. That's what the fuss is about.
I can see that in Los Angeles. One side of the city does well and has wonderful shopping malls while my side of the city -- no fancy shopping mall at all -- just little dollar store type outlets.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)5%(or less than 5%, either way) of the human population using 25% of the world's resources. The US has had the wealth disparity funnel working on its side in relation to other countries too. Then we complain about jobs being outsourced, as though a job is somehow "American", even though the wealth is at least somewhat spreading to more people around the world. What little of it they may get, $3 is still more than $1.
White men in America aren't as needed as they were in the 1950's, and Americans in general aren't as needed as they were in previous years. We're seeing the decreased need for people to get a job done anywhere in the world. There are people building machines to specifically put you out of a job. We're all in it together, but at the same time, people are looking out for themselves too.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)If something is sold in America, it should damn well pay taxes in America. If the main company is in America they should damn well be hiring Americans to fill the jobs. You wonder why there is a downward spiral? It's because instead of companies paying wages that would support a family, they pay wages that would barely support a single person. If only one person in the family had to work, look how many jobs there would be available.
Companies closing doors all over the country because they can't make any money? If they paid their employees enough money to buy the products, maybe the doors would stay open. People only like cheap products because they don't have the money to buy the good stuff. Dollar stores are doing bang up business, so Sears starts selling cheap crap to 'compete' and now they are closing so many stores so fast that I'll be surprised if they are in business in a year. They didn't raise their employee salaries, they even changed their Craftsman line of tools, which were prized by so many DIY people, they did themselves in.
American COMPANIES are raping the rest of the world, it's not Americans, or white men.
Z
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Should is a personal and emotional word.
I'm saying there's pressure from all sides. There are more people on the planet today than ever before, and business has more access to more people around the world than ever before. Added to that pressure is the increasing automation of this or that task.
Unless you bring something extra to the table, any given individual is just needed less by society.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)replaced with foreign workers. Not only were they replaced, but in most cases they have to train their replacements.
I'm not a protectionist, but there should be certain rules for government and corporations. Government should not be able to hire foreign workers when there are American workers that can do the job. All government contractors should use American workers on their government contract. It is the American worker that keeps the government going.
I know you can't make jobs, so everyone can have a job. But, corporations with CEO's that have HUGE salaries and stock options, should not be hiring foreign workers to replace American workers. And, it goes without saying, that these CEO's and corporations should be paying their fair share when it comes to taxes.
Z
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)was lots of demand for the production of our manufacturing, much of it in our own country.
Now, we still have a lot of demand, but instead of satisfying that demand with products manufactured or produced by our own labor in our own country, we buy a lot of cheap stuff, much of it rather poorly made -- junk if you will.
That is hurting not just our economy but our ability to be self-sufficient. It is destroying the greatest treasure we have -- the skills of our workers who are passing hamburgers instead of making things we need or want.
"Free" trade is very costly for Americans.
Let the Chinese make stuff and sell it to themselves. Let us make stuff and sell it to ourselves. Nothing wrong with trade, but there is something wrong when imports are such a large portion of products bought in a country of our size.
Yes. Automation is displacing workers too. But the benefits of automation should be more widely shared by our society. Instead of being of benefit to all of us, automation has become a tool with which people who could be contributing a great deal to our society are pushed to the side and impoverished, slowly but surely.
A fairer tax system that spreads the wealth not directly but through programs like free tuition at state schools, free pre-school for every child (common in Europe) from the age of three up, single payer insurance and other programs that Bernie Sanders is the answer.
Those who have and earn high salaries or profits should pay more and higher taxes. Otherwise the existing trend of very, very high and increasingly high disparity of wealth will become a social problem, a serious one.
Gene Debs
(582 posts)can afford to go to Broadway shows or shop for non-essentials. But then I guess i don't live in the same bubble that you seem to. I see miserable people every day.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)For the last five seasons, the average price of a Broadway ticket has climbed 34%. The price of a movie ticket nationwide rose 10.8% in roughly the same period from 2008 to 2013, according to data from the National Assn. of Theatre Owners.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-et-cm-broadway-ticket-prices-20140610-story.html
lakeguy
(1,640 posts)some people can buy stuff not necessary to sustain life, so everything is ok.
moonbeam23
(312 posts)perhaps you should leave NY for a minute and check out the rural West...
Stargazer99
(2,584 posts)So, there is no such misery! How about an adult daughter that died due to lack of MEDICAL care while working? Because her employer did not have medical...she died from a condition that could have been taken care of by RX. She left a 141/2 daughter without a mother....yeah no misery.
All my children's lives growing up didn't have sufficient dental care because our employers didn't have dental coverage and wages did not cover rent, food, car repairs, etc beyond those items
We all suffer from dental problems-but I guess those problems don't exist in your world
INSUFFICIENT WAGES or welfare
Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
I hate this country I was born in...developed Europe would have been a hellva lot kinder to this underclass person
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We cover poverty issues. It is really desperate out there
tenderfoot
(8,426 posts)Bet you can afford the rent in NYC too.
Look at you! Aren't you just the most!
bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)Drive through the Southern Tier, where I live. Go to Binghamton, where school lunches are free for everyone because the child poverty rate is so high. Or to Utica - I think they're poverty rate was highest. Or go to PA and drive southwest from Pittsburgh, where the once-substantial-working-class small towns have devolved into urban wastelands.
Or maybe just read something about what's going on in the vast stretches of this country left out and left behind. Just this AM I read a story about THOUSANDS of people lining up for a free health care clinic in LA - they expect 10,000 people in 2 1/2 days - people who can't afford dentists, glasses - oh, and btw, some are insured under our wonderful Obamacare - but they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.
Does that not sound like misery to you?
If not, what does it take to get your attention? Literal starvation?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)keeps wages down and profits up. Makes it really easy to misdirect people's anger to meaningless bullshit like gender bathroom regulation and pump up the guns/god/gays coalition, who don't seem to really want anything fixed because they apparently need someone to be pissed at and the reality of who really is fucking them over is kind of irrelevant to them.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)As you say, there's the slavery mindset. Alright, and there's also a let's move out of where we were(Europe) mindset. We have a population of 300+ million people, connected by, really nothing. Outside of paying taxes, what's the collective thread of America? You can be whoever you want to be. Social mobility. As soon as you can, pack up and find a new and better place to live. One way or another, you've got to be out of the house at 18, sink or swim. That's not all corporate overlords telling us to do that.
Germany has a German language. France has the French language. There is no American language. When you think of people in India or China, you have a decent idea of what they look like. Americans don't really have a look, because we have people from everywhere here. I can't imagine there are too many kids born in, again let's say China, from two American parents. Whatever it is that Americans are. I would imagine there are more kids born in America from two Chinese parents though, and then those kids grow up to be Americans. Whatever it is that Americans are.
In some ways, we might be too diverse. Too many interests fighting back and forth. Find something that people can agree on, some sort of connection, and maybe then we can try to make this country whatever you want it to be. We Americans don't agree on too much though, up to and including what we want this country to be.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)We're like a big Star Trek cast full of people from different backgrounds and cultures who (could, should) work together towards common goals. Our big national tent should be our greatest asset, instead it is turned against us.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Life isn't quite that easy.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)So we don't pay attention to what is going on.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Iraq has the same size population as Canada, but it doesn't function as a single unit, so one size doesn't fit all. The US has a population closer to the size of the biggest developing countries, but with a developed economy. That's a somewhat unique set of circumstances. Japan is an island with the 10th largest population, but the 61st largest land area, with an aging population, and isn't big on immigration.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The "you can never possibly make it better" folks will be leaving the voter pool as time takes its toll. Which will stop their efforts to hold back "generation screwed".
Unfortunately, that also means we lose most of Florida to the ocean, as well as massive droughts, floods and famine. But it's very, very important to only address these issues incrementally, and only via public-private partnerships. The people on the TV tell me so over and over and over and over again, so it must be true!!
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)A friend of mine who has lived on both sides of the Atlantic once said 'Europeans work to live, Americans live to work.'
Many people think ours is a better system, that Europeans have it 'too good' with their free time, vacation time, sick leave, etc, and that it puts a strain on the European economies.
The idea that what is good for corporate America is good for everyone is too deeply ingrained in our society.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)It's KILLING us . . .. spiritually, mentally and economically.
Nobody has free time to do anything except go to work, eat, go home & clean varied messes and go to bed.
At LEAST have a mandated five weeks vacation. AT LEAST offer new mothers a year paid maternity leave. AT LEAST GET UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. There is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER we cannot do this other than we're a selfish greedy bunch of violence-centric "rugged individualists" whose life MUST BE BETTER than someone else's. It's far more important to us that those we deem economically and socially inferior NOT get these things than EVERYONE get them.
moonbeam23
(312 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)You have Democrats, right here on this board, in this very thread, denying that this is even happening. But it has been happening for decades. It started with Reagan, but accelerated under Clinton and has not stopped since. NAFTA, welfare "reform", mass incarceration- all committed by Bill Clinton. Other triangulators (those in Congress) are also responsible.
But mostly it's because the Democratic Party has strayed from the New Deal in a big way. I think that's what Bernie has been trying to highlight, but I'm afraid it has fallen on deaf ears. The Democratic Party has fallen into the austerity mindset. We can't do those things (single payer, for instance) because it costs too much, when the reality is that they just don't have the guts to pursue it.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)for status quo.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)they actually cost less than what we are currently doing. We could do right by people and save money at the same time.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)He is up against a massive entrenched powerful united media, an anti New-Deal Democratic Party, the entitled corporations, a financial sector that is rewarded for destroying nations, a military that exists solely to profit a few at the expense of millions and a health care system that absolutely sucks unless you measure its accomplishments by how much money it profits a few pirates.
These Assholes® are united with the purpose of holding onto their undeserved largess. They won't even pay taxes. Now the New Democratic Party behaves as if Grover Norquist is one of their own.
mrdmk
(2,943 posts)It is nothing short of strange that a person that hold Henry Kissinger in such high regard (the man can no longer travel the world because of his actions) is considered the best candidate when the world is on fire.
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)An excellent movie that I recommend everyone go see.
on edit: Toward the end of the movie he was talking to three women from Iceland. The one woman said, "I would never move to American. You don't care for each other." She nailed it. We don't. We take pleasure in seeing our neighbors suffer. When we find out that union employees make more money, we don't say, "Hey I want that too," we say, "Hey, someone should do something about that!"
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)to be sure. As I'm reminded my every debate about raising the minimum wage. It is more important for some to do worse than for all to do better.
Nay
(12,051 posts)anger that some poor kid used their tax money to eat; that a person who eats a Twinkie has the NERVE to want tax money for socialistic healthcare; I could go on, but I won't.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)America never before had an entire media network dedicated to promoting greed, cruelty and intolerance.
Thousands of radio stations and Fox "News" pummels the unwary with far right dogma every day.
And yet we could still defeat the powers of darkness but for a complicit Democratic Party.
Nay
(12,051 posts)don't KNOW this; it's that they don't care. They like us at each other's throats.
Back in the 90's, a hate-filled group set the Hutus and the Tutsis at each other just by passing out thousands of audio tapes of hate speeches. As I've said many times here, propaganda works, and the Dems better get on the stick. But, for some reason, they don't want to even try.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)get out and vote!. take control of control of Congress away from our biggest problem,,,,, the GOP. ,,,,,,, and a cut it off at the pass,~~~~ u do not have control of Congress unless us have 60 votes in the Senate and simple majority of the House!
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)now only if we could overcome the gerrymandering (and the Democrats' apathetic acceptance of it), the voter suppression (and the Democrats' apathetic acceptance of that), the overwhelming power of corporate money in politics (and the Democrats' apathetic acceptance of that), and electronic voting machines (and the Democrats' apathetic acceptance of that) and we'll be all set to change things.
Nay
(12,051 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)if u dont have the votes to prevent stuff,,,, it has nothing to do with being apathetic
none those things list boil down to Democrats not being able to stop or reform without the votes to do it.... so sit on the Prof throne and blame apathy, it doesn't change the facts.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)I'll let you know when I see any top party Democrats fighting in earnest against any of these things, all of which make it nearly impossible to actually vote out the Republicans. If you can wake them from their drowsy sleep on these issues, please do so.
treestar
(82,383 posts)state offices, and paid attention to them too, that would not have happened.
We let the right wing take the state houses and governorships all the while concentrating on the presidency at the be all and end all and all we need.
llmart
(15,536 posts)Most people who are inclined to vote or follow a political process only do so in the "big one"; i.e., presidential races. Then the rest of the time they ignore the little, local community or even state contests thinking it's too small to create any significant change. I maintain that it is even more important to follow what's going on in your local communities and races and then your statehouse.
I have been so disheartened by the vitriol on DU of Bernie vs. Hillary. If either one were to become the President, we have seen in the past that they can have the best of intentions of making dramatic changes in our culture, but the President is not a supreme ruler. There's the Congress and a legislative process that is in place and their desires and promises can be squashed in a heartbeat and never come to fruition.
I came of age in the '60's - quintessential baby boomer - and most of the radical changes that took place in that decade were the result of grass roots involvement driven by real, everyday people, not the President. The powers that be only got on board when it looked like the majority of people were going to demand the changes and that their re-election chances would be slim to none if they didn't get on board.
Bernie speaks for an awful lot of people, but if he doesn't get the nomination it doesn't mean that the passion of his followers can't be continued on in other ways. If he loses, are all of the Bernie supporters just going to throw up their hands and go away sulking? If you truly believe in his principles then continue on.
treestar
(82,383 posts)with all the posts accusing Hillary of "no we can't" - why not "yes we can" take back Congress? Instead of sulking that you have to win us over if Bernie loses and some saying they refuse to vote for Hillary. Then work on getting Congress back - yes we can! Haven't seen any such sentiments. Yet that would do a lot more to get a progressive agenda passed.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)is when the Bern Camp, Blame Democrats for GOP crap, democrats are powerless to change without the votes to pass reform.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)without taking money out of the process. The Democratic Party chooses the candidates not the people. And, if you don't believe it, give a shout out to DU about all the people who got stopped by the Democratic Party. Hell, ask Ned Lamont.
The Hillary crowd have their heads in the sand if they don't think that party politics isn't alive in well in the 21st century. They might as well bring back the smoke filled rooms, because that's where everything is decided anyway.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the Bern Camp. Just open your eyes. If it was so easy, running for office, don't you think more people would do it? Hell, politicians get a ton of perks, even after they leave office. Better than any average Joe or Jane Doe's retirement package.
Z
Nay
(12,051 posts)had a credible Dem challenger a few years ago, and he was unable to pry ONE THIN DIME from the Dem leadership. Oh, you say, they didn't want to waste money on a Dem candidate that would never win against Cantor.
Aha! Then a totally unknown Tea Party candidate, a complete doofus named Brat, unseats Cantor in the Pub primary! and now the Dem leadership is excited to run a Dem against this unknown doofus, right?? Right?? Wrong. The sane Democrat who ran against Brat didn't get ONE THIN DIME from the leadership. Brat got $10 million from his Pub leadership. YOU tell ME what's wrong with this fuckin' picture.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)What was that quote up above?
~Upton Sinclair
It isn't just the GOP that aren't doing the will of the people. It's Dems too...because their salary and their donations that help them keep their jobs, and the potential for lucrative jobs after they quit congress...all depend on them not understanding (or caring about) what we need.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)With our federal system that gives equal senate power to sovereign states with a million people and those with 40 million people, the status quo is protected and progress will be nil or geological.
Sometimes, I wish we had negotiated a breakaway for the South. But the scourge of slavery would have continued at least another generation.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Sorry...hands typed that on their own.
What you wrote, ProfessorPlum: Thank you. It is Pure Gold.
PS: Have you seen Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next?"
The film is amazing. You will cry, seeing the stuff you believe in made plain as day.
In Italy, people work to live...In Germany, workers are part of management...In Iceland, banksters go to jail (thank you, William K. Black)...In Finland, kids go to school to learn how to learn...
My wife and I saw it in February. We're still talking about it.
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)I loved when MM was talking to the Italian couple & the woman says she would love to move to America. Then MM says, "Do you know how many vacation hours companies are legally required to give their American employees?" She shook her head. "Zero," he said. They literally did not believe him at first.
See the movie people!
LittleGirl
(8,282 posts)were classic - no way!
yes, way.
loved the movie.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)thank you for the recommendation
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)If you want the long answer, you're going to have to wait awhile for it.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)find the time or have it in themselves to educate themselves.
We're voting for another Thirdway Corporatist for the Third time expecting different results.
Gigantic clue about our US citizens education and logic abilities.
I don't know what else to say.
The field I work in requires continual education because technology continues to evolve. I resigned to myself a long time ago that education carries on and never stops until you die. So learning about stuff is basically all I do everyday. It's the only way I can make a livable wage and support my family. Unfortunately I have to freelance as my job was offshored when Bill was president around the same time NAFTA was signed. The infernal frustration I have is now I'm supposed to vote for Hillary, a contributor to the TPP because it's the only way?
Yea, I don't deal with BS either. One can't pull that shit working with math programmers for 15+ years so logic has been burned into me and I can't help it anymore.
PS. I had the chance to talk with some foreign exchange students and they say pretty much they don't come here for K-12 but for the colleges, you know, the kind people in America can barely afford.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Republican assholes who spend HALF of OUR Federal revenue on their 'for profit' 'defense/wars and prisons'.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)Nothing seems to be changing and things are slowly getting worse and worse.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Our country, our people would have been in much worse shape today without Obama chipping away at ALL the damage.
Chin up and fight on Sunlei.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Enough miserable people time, now it's on to persistently, nicely-nag Mrs. Clinton to make Sanders her VP.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Why is that?
No self-value? Lost all hope? Laziness?
I get irked from top to bottom.
Locally: Litterbugs, developers, people who cheat the system like those who park close to store entrances in the Blue Zones then get out of their car and walk and shop just as able as anyone without a handi-cap sticker. (I'm a very healthy I might add and even comment to a-holes who I see leave their Blue Zone cars and walk just fine - yes, I get in their faces.)
Statewide: Those who dis California for being a high tax state, do everything they can to pay less taxes and still can't understand why so many f'ing people want to live here. So LEAVE already...
Nationally: Poor voters and Red Staters who vote against their own best interests.
We've got a lot problems even before looking at the many environmental disasters heading our way...
"Demand better"? That's not going to do it. Voters have to TURN OUT TO VOTE to be heard.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)If you're working 2 or 3 jobs (including on the weekend), there is no free time. Politicians often point to this sort of "work ethic" as "admirable." I see it as perverse - it shows how little this country cares about its underclass.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)motivated to vote, our system makes it very easy to skip out on.
I wish that the Dem majority congress with Obama's first year in office had passed a law for a voter holiday and / or a four day open polling schedule.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)and missing work for some is not a valid reason, they will tell you that the polls are open early and close late so you should be able to make it there to vote.
Or sometimes, life gets in the way. You know like bills, child emergencies, finding a job, finding food etc. Or just maybe nothing fucking changes whether you vote or not. Obama may have done something for you, but not for me or any one that I know. Our lives pretty much still sucks, if not gotten worse since he became President. If you are less than middle class, it pretty much sucks to be you. Why the hell do you think mid terms were so bad? Because it just doesn't matter, money will always trump our lives.
Z
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Now that's a winning, creating change-for-the-better attitude..
zalinda
(5,621 posts)for over 25 fucking years and nothing changes, how long do you keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome? Hillary will be more of the same.
It's an attitude that the Democrats have earned.
Z
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And then, we do live in an oligarchy
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Tweeted
modestybl
(458 posts)...unfortunately the powers in both parties are beholden.
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)I can't remember the exact phrase, but they focus on something I think is called Gross Happiness Product.
They're not big, nor powerful, nor rich. They only recently got television. But we can learn from them.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)A Corporate, Wall Street friendly Democrat or Republican. See, they CAN have it both ways.
Ugh..
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)public university: $120,000. Percentage of pay cut taken by my husband when he was laid off at age 59 just as my daughter was entering college: 45%. Number of times he had to scramble to stay employed the last 5 years, accepting crappy jobs at low pay outfits: 3. My lousy pay as a substitute teacher: $115/day with no benefits whatsoever and suffering the added indignity of waiting up to 2 months for a paycheck. Cost of medical and dental care: astronomical.
Yep, the USA sucks in so many ways. Yet, we seem to be a nation of sheep, consistently voting against our own best interests and passively accepting that we are being screwed up, down, and sideways.
The Frog March.
antigop
(12,778 posts)who haven't been burned by it (yet).
Things have to get worse before they will get better.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Which is why so many people want to keep the status quo. The devil you know and all that.
If it is a finite planet we live on, everyone can't have everything. What are you willing to give up, that you would rather keep, to make things get better for everyone?
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)At the ripe old age of 68, I've seen progress I never thought would be possible in my lifetime. I attended a segregated school in 1958, and lived long enough to help elect an African American to the presidency. I remember when almost no one would admit to being gay, and lived long enough to have an openly gay Congressman who is married and has a child. I have friends who went to prison for pot possession, and lived long enough to walk into a store and buy cannabis right off the shelf.
All that said, I sadly agree with you, and America's rising suicide rate proves you're right. There is far too much misery, caused by wage suppression, voter suppression, news suppression, and just suppression in general. We must demand better.
romanic
(2,841 posts)And by turnips I mean people. Worker's rights being neglected over the "rights" of corporations has led to misery for everyone.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)I told my niece that I had to get hearing aides at a cost of just over $3,000. She told me the National Healther Service in the UK covers them for semirs. I am 80, and could have used the money on a new furnace, driveway or any number of other things. We are getting royally screwed in the USA.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Working your life away is a form of battle scar here. It's encouraged as a bizarre form of gaining respect.
Being abused is ingrained into our culture. It's expected. The thought of getting more vacation time is looked on with disgust. 'That's what those lazy Europeans do. This is America!'
treestar
(82,383 posts)I remember reading people in the 50s who got ulcers were proud of it! It really is a badge of honor here. In the 80s I remember people talking about working 80 hours a week in a boasting tone.
Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)
carolinayellowdog This message was self-deleted by its author.
blm
(113,043 posts).
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)that means a lot to me
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)and emotionally by people who are VERY good at it.
Since people are hooked up to social media, they have taken it over and used it to get to people. People have to break out of this Matrix and find alternative ways to work around it and get done what has to be done. We have to keep pace and stay proactive and not reactive, when they take action, we need to find ways to preserve all of this massive unity across the country.
First they took over the M$M and now this--part of this movement is going to be finding alternative ways to communicate and get this done, or we are cooked.
Response to felix_numinous (Reply #101)
carolinayellowdog This message was self-deleted by its author.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Now submit and vote for Our Leader. She has a "D" by her name so she must be good, right?!
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)Many people that are voting in this election don't know what it is like to not have a vacation day or a sick day for years and years at a time. A sick day is a day you lose money. I a, tired of work place mentality of it is weak to take a sick day off. Had a boss that came in sick, coughing and horse. I asked why she did not take it off as I knew she had a sick day. She responded that she "never takes them", with a bit of an air of arrogance. Well years ago I decided I was tired of this crap so I instantly responded,"You know people here don't get sick days, and you are going to cost us and them money!" She instantly tied to make like she wasn't really that sick, then stayed off in her office for the rest of the day. We are getting like China where we wear masks to work to not make other's sick..but that is us as employees suffering for our co-workers because our bosses are too privileged to care about us.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)for ALL of the propaganda spewed in the US both political and religious. USA, home of a dystopia and Idiocracy.
SalviaBlue
(2,916 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)I am not worthy.
Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #112)
carolinayellowdog This message was self-deleted by its author.
SalviaBlue
(2,916 posts)Now he's reading Scuba's post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7784269
Punx
(446 posts)$$$$$
Which means never....
Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)
carolinayellowdog This message was self-deleted by its author.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)and I think slavery and the mentality of the slave owner is very deeply ingrained in our society. We are constantly looking to recapitulate it. We have prisoners manufacture things for us - we look for slave-like labor overseas. We run it ourselves, in the Marianas islands. We deeply want it to return, and it runs like a poison current through everything that capital tries to do here.
America has to grow beyond it, and just treat people like people.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)How did we get the New Deal in 1933 ? The Great Depression and the fact that FDR did NOT campaign on it explicitly. He got overwhelming Democratic majorities in both houses. The old corrupt plutocratic 1920's order that the Republicans loved finally did them in. The same will have to happen. MOST people pay little attention to politics.
Festivito
(13,452 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)If Bernie is gone, the one that makes them the most miserable is how I'll vote!
babylonsister
(171,056 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Hotler
(11,416 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)A revolution where we stuff tea partiers into weighted wooden crates and dump them into Boston harbor!
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)I think it was near the start of the 1pm (Eastern) segment, but I could be wrong. Glad I caught it then and here.
He's followed your posts for quite awhile.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)that's very flattering
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)Thom got the Animal Farm reference
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)They have convinced themselves that we can't make a better future, and all we can hope to do is try to slow down the inevitable slide into misery and fascism. Any suggestion to the contrary is pie-in-the-sky idealism and selfishness.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Oh, wait . . .
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)needed to make its citizens at home nabobs. Don't hold France or UK up as models. They exploit the US too---half the pharms that old folks buy here are made by European companies that lobby Congress to keep Medicare from controlling drug prices.
Paka
(2,760 posts)Well stated.
CarrieLynne
(497 posts)whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)We are being conditioned to accept the cruelty of neo-liberalism as somehow superior or exceptional to rest of modern world, but really we are being groomed and conditioned by both political parties to be savage assholes who'd sell their own children into slavery for a quick buck.
KT2000
(20,576 posts)that is the first thing my brother said upon his return from a trip there. He could not believe that people were actually happy and did consume themselves in anger like Americans. There truly are different worlds out there. Ours is a mean one now.
anniebelle
(899 posts)It is almost completely dominated by Republican rule. They get them to the polls to vote by using their hate, fear, ignorance and years of being uneducated. I have to cry for my country when I see what has happened in my 71 years here.
eShirl
(18,490 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)when we compare ourselves to imagined paradises in Europe and ignore the 80% of the world's people that don't live in developed countries.
Your slavery argument was actually used by the south to justify real slavery at the time of the civil war. I find it extremely offensive.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)try reading it again.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)where the argument was used before. Try reading it again.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)thanks, I'm interested to learn more about this.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)The answer is there.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)"Your slavery argument was actually used by the south to justify real slavery"
first, I didn't make a 'slavery argument', except to note that we had and have too much of it.
Second, I'm curious to learn what you mean when you say it was used to justify real slavery. Because what was used by whom to justify real slavery? Just what are you on about?
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)your slavery argument. That is pretty sad.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)thanks for wasting my time with your nonsense.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)They aren't imagined, but nor do I think they are paradises. Just happier.
Also, what does ignoring the developing world have to do with anything? (and, frankly, I'd be surprised if many of those countries didn't have happier populations overall than the US).
Your entire post seems to be very bait-y, and here I have taken the bait. Feel free to ignore my response, as you couldn't have possibly misunderstood my original post as much as you are pretending to.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,445 posts)getting marbleized by the media and shunned by the people who fear to dream.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)as is the dancing round the ashes being done by the party higher-ups and the media.
But, I take some heart in the fact that Bernie's ideas don't disappear with his candidacy, and he did WAY better than expected and almost pulled off an upset. His _ideas_ catch fire - we just need to find the next champions for those ideas.
randome
(34,845 posts)There is nothing stopping us from living in a real utopia right now. Except ourselves.
I guess it's in our nature for nearly all of us to inhabit our own internal universe and not look at the larger picture. We only developed full consciousness two thousand years ago so maybe we'll continue to evolve and start to see things differently.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]