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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums'Today Marks the End of TTIP': Greenpeace Leak Exposes Corporate Takeover
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/05/02/today-marks-end-ttip-greenpeace-leak-exposes-corporate-takeoverThe secret documents represent roughly two-thirds of the latest negotiating text, and in several cases expose for the first time the position of the U.S.
Confirming that the TransAtlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) amounts to "a huge transfer of power from people to big business," Greenpeace Netherlands on Monday leaked 248 secret pages of the controversial trade deal between the U.S. and EU, exposing how environmental regulations, climate protections, and consumer rights are being "bartered away behind closed doors."
The documents represent roughly two-thirds of the latest negotiating text, according to Greenpeace, and on some topics offer for the first time the position of the United States.
"Total secrecy was the only way the European Commission could keep the European people from learning the truth about these appalling negotiations, and now the cat is out of the bag."
John Hilary, War on Want
Before Monday, elected representatives were only able to view such documents under guard, in a secure room, without access to expert consultation, while being forbidden from discussing the content with anyone else. This secrecy runs "counter to the democratic principles of both the EU and the U.S.," the website ttip-leaks.org declares.
?itok=NHz0G7AE
chknltl
(10,558 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)even though we know many of them are REALLY CAUSING MAJOR ILLNESS
Example:
Estimating Burden and Disease Costs of Exposure to Endocrine-Disrupting Chemicals in the European Union: The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism: Vol 100, No 4
More than 150 Billion Euros each YEAR
-----
http://www.ciel.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LCD_TTIP_Jan2015.pdf
http://www.ciel.org/reports/preempting-the-public-interest-how-ttip-will-limit-us-states-public-health-and-environmental-protections-sep-2015/
http://www.ciel.org/us-states-ability-to-protect-from-toxic-chemicals-under-attack-on-two-fronts-at-home-and-abroad/
http://www.ciel.org/news/leaked-ttip-draft-for-chemicals-sector-reveals-a-toxic-partnership/
http://www.ciel.org/news/fast-tracked-trade-deals-rush-us-toward-a-toxic-partnership/
http://www.ciel.org/news/ttip-leak-eu-proposal-undermines-democratic-values/
DetroitSocialist83
(169 posts)Jump up and down in approval of it.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Nearly 75% of new jobs created over the next decade will pay a median wage of less than $35k a year
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7797509
I think they are being optimistic to not tell us point blank, jobs are valued by supply and demand - and demand is going away, so wages will fall to zero.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)with people making pennies per hour.
We will shortly be completely back to the World of Charles Dickens, or worse.
This is what the republicans, Obama and the Clinton people are supporting.
THe race to the bottom is almost over.
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)to just make it at home. This will bring the factories back or make it profitable to build new ones here bringing jobs back. Dump our trade policies. We make nothing in America now but we used to and need to do so again.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)started killing it. In Fact the Government was supported form many years (I think up until about WWII) almost totally by tariffs.
We need to get back to this. Attempting to make the US operate on taxes collected on the Poor and Middle-class wages, when those groups have to compete for wages with people making pennies on our dollar is INSANE and impossible. It cannot be done.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Are looking forward to the day when corporations control everything. But they're nothing like republicans
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Mbrow
(1,090 posts)Just as we have been saying from the start
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)They are essentially corporate coups. They will end self-determination and self-government in so many areas.
Take gun control.
A lot of DUers are for that.
But gun control measures will reduce the profits of gun manufacturers some of which are primarily located outside the US.
Take the environmental regulations, limits on the use of fossil fuels or fertilizers or weed control agents. These regulations will make it difficult for people around the world to decide in their local governments, states, nations just what limits they want.
The agreements are horrible, and the courts they set up are just beyond belief awful.
And a vote for Hillary is a vote for these agreements.
Shame on all who have already voted for her.
Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)so it is the perfect trade agreement
arcane1
(38,613 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)The Party needs to nominate a real Democrat, otherwise Trump wins.
KPN
(15,635 posts)who stand to benefit from the TTP or they are either ill-informed or just cling to a naive trust in the "system" despite flashing warning signs everywhere. The first aren't traditional core Democrats, they are DLC raised "New Democrats"; the latter are being duped.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)And they think they will be paid handsomely for helping get this passed. 30 pieces of silver, anyone?
Baobab
(4,667 posts)TTIP=US-Europe mostly, also freezing chemical regulation and encouraging fracking and exporting our natural gas and globalizing government procurement so no more new deals.
Wait. Who cares?! They're both treasonous!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)And yes: she has lauded fascist policies as a golden standard. Tell me again why she would be better than Trump? Because she has ovaries or something?
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)THAT will be damned awkward. She could loose to Drumpf on this point alone.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I see the summary of what they found, but I'm interested in seeing the actual 248 pages and what they say.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Why would President Obama support such a horrible thing? And the TPP too!
Contrary to what the cheerleaders say past trade deals have absolutely devastated American manufacturing. Now the TPP and TTIP promise to do far worse by surrendering massive power to corporations. This at a time when corporate power has already run amuck.
This makes no sense. We already have the example of the Country of Origin meat label. These trade deals are treasonous in nature. They are anti-democratic. Democratic presidents of the past wouldn't be caught dead signing such a deal.
Stop abusing the American people!
fasttense
(17,301 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)for those that support it.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)But you know it's not the end. They are going to pull out all the stops to ram this through.
Say it fails. Still not the end.
We can NEVER fall asleep again, probably the closest you'll get to "the end".
This, however, rocks in all kinds of ways!
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Tell all the people! I knew it was a Corporate take-over. I knew it in my gut, just like I knew the GWB's invasion of Iraq was a pile of bullshit. Now let's wait & see if the wonderful M$M puts this at the top of the news list.
Thanks, Ferd! Marking this to come back to later.
K&R
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)TTIP, TPP amd TiSA included.
Frankly, I never felt suspicious that government and corporate business were colluding an end run around democracy. I felt certain of it, and I know I'm not the only one here who was certain.
It's time to make plans for the post-neoliberal world. New conferences, based on principles of democracy and transparency, should be convened to assure that the future is not corporatist but humanist and democratic. The press is invited, along with their television camera and microphones, but the oligarchs and their political stooges can stay home; they are fired and will be notified of the time and place for each of them to report to a truth and reconciliation commission to deal with their cases. Any statues of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan shall be torn down and the scrap tossed with what's left of the Berlin Wall.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)if she ever was confronted with a REAL interview
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I think what they meant to say is "This trade deal is putting a lot of gold in my pockets and campaign war-chest."
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)All 30 pieces of it.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)We're supposed to take one for team Hillary.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Harcourdt Fenton Mud
(29 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)I said something a little more to the point originally, but one has to mind the alert stalkers these days
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)and die."
It's ugly and disgusting, and yes, treasonous as well.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,164 posts)They cover their ears and eyes and ignore any stories from the "liberal media" if it in anyway tarnishes their precious. They have invested so much time and even money into her that they will refuse to beleive they have been wrong all this time. Theyed rather watch the country veer even harder right, and have less consumer and citizen rights, earn less, have less to look forward to, bow down and accept the oligarchy, when they actually had a candidate with true Democrat values, a once in a lifetime chance to finally catch up to other nations with what they provide to their citizens, and maybe even once again be a beacon of hope to workers around the planet.
But, you know,.....
"They have looked deep into her eyes and are able to get a sense of her soul; a woman deeply committed to her country and the best interests of her country"
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)or paid to advocate.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)on these pages and extrapolated your thinking to the rest of the agreement?
If so, you will be able to explain to those of us who do not feign explicit understanding exactly which language indicates the absolute transfer of power, that they do not already have, to corporations and from the people?
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)There are similar chapters in TTIP and TiSA. This chapter is currently a stumbling block in the TTIP negotiations.
Here is the official summary (caution -- it's what they want you to know) of the chapter in .pdf format.
Also in .pdf format, here is the trxt of the entire chapter.
Chapter 28 provides for an Investor-State Dispute Settlement process, under which a corporation may bring action against a government at any level if the corporate officers believe that a government action will deprive the corporation of expected future profits. If a state attempts to regulate harmful emissions from a smoke stack, the factory owners may take action against the state before an ISDS panel, which consists of three corporate lawyers. The panel members are chosen by the plaintiffs and the defendants, with each picking one panelist and agreeing on the third, who serves as chairman. The process to select the panel chairman is complicated by going into what happens if the parties do not agree on a choice of a chairman.
A majority vote of the panel decides the dispute, but the identities of the panelist associated with the majority and minority views are not disclosed. Decisions are final. There is no appeal. The state will have no right to pursue the matter in its own courts.
In my view, this is an end run around democratic institutions. The state has lost sovereignty over its power to abate greenhouse gases or pollution by entering into an agreement such as the TPP. An elected representative of the people may sponsor and pass an anti-pollution bill, but, under the TPP, a corporate party may take the state to arbitration by an panel not responsible to any elected official for legally binding arbitration.
Any agreement that contains a provision such as this should be rejected without discussion.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)Last edited Tue May 3, 2016, 02:25 AM - Edit history (1)
to understand its implications. The outrage, is in the very fact that it establishes an official procedure, through which corporations can challenge the sovereignty of governments. It subordinates the principles of democracy to a desire for self-enrichment, by an elite class of human society. No working-class person should accept this.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)ronnie624
(5,764 posts)should be the common good and the will of the majority. It's an obvious default position for anyone who understands and values democracy.
drm604
(16,230 posts)This turns over state sovereignty to a 3 person panel. Yes, the government gets to choose one of those people, and both parties have to agree on the third, but who in our government is making those choices, and can we guarantee no corruption?
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...will result in taxpayers, ie: you and me, taking on the burden of having to pay those future profit declarations with our own hard work and money and with the future welfare of ourselves and our children.
Amiright?
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)On the other hand, what hard work are you talking about? The TPP will cost us more jobs. It's probably just as likely we Yanks will never be able to pay the judgments imposed against us by a panel of corporate shysters; we'll end up like Greece.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)I'm still worried about the Lame Duck Late Night Vote by Congress when we are all distracted by the aftermath of the Election.
But...we still hope!
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Triana
(22,666 posts)And BYTHEWAY, Hillary Clinton DOES support both.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)on both sides of the pond.
democracy is just about over.
Triana
(22,666 posts)lovuian
(19,362 posts)exists
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)burrowowl
(17,632 posts)A GREAT Organization!
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)PatrickforO
(14,558 posts)are a few billionaire parasites.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)"Free trade is good!"
It's been "good" for the one percent: corrosive for the working class.
"Yeah but this one is different: It'll raise our exports!!!"
If and when they ever raised them, they were offset gigantically by the imports. Net job loss.
"Yeah yeah, but that meant lower prices for goods!"
Not necessarily. It meant fatter bottom lines for the rent seekers cutting their production costs while selling to established domestic markets. In any case, you're killing demand as un or underemployed aren't buying as much, and what they buy isn't nourishing their co-citizens.
"But the rest of the world will rise up to our standards, even as yours lower. In the long run, it'll even out".
As J Keynes said, "in the long run, we're all dead". In the short run, the rentier class profits enormously. Quite an ancillary coincidence, isn't it?
"Well, we'll compensate the losers via redistribution"
Cold comfort. Day late and a dollar short. Never happened anyway, and at best provided a conduit for underemployment.
"What are you, a xenophobe?. You have it too good. What about Vietnamese farmers?!"
How is expecting public policy in the country we live in and participate politically in selfish?
"We will bury you".
Not exactly a ringing endorsement for your ilk.
"Yeah, but the republicans are worse"
Haven't we heard that before, only to see nothing change?
"Go away".
Why didn't you just say that to begin with?
"We need your vote."
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)JohnyCanuck
(9,922 posts)raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)or a dead planet, or a dead working class. Fucking criminals.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)We have to stop it because they can't.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)If they were liberals they would at least defend it. But they won't defend it. They just don't care. As long as their authoritarian idol wins, they will be happy.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)are Right Wing Neo-con programs.
YOu can't be a liberal, or progressive and support the destruction of the poor and Middle-class economy.
That's a RW thing.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)support a strong authoritarian leader and that's what is important.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Free Book on-line
Bob Altemeyer's - The Authoritarians http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)strong leadership to do their thinking for them.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)But to be clear, I agree the TPP is bad and needs to be stopped. Hillary is wishy-washy on it, and obviously Bernie is strongly against it.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)Amazing how far to the right politics have drifted: That a fascist like Trump is running to the left of Hillary on trade and SS/Medicare.
HRC's "wishy-washy" on TPP is just trying to triangulate till the clock runs out.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Alright, from the article the primary claim of:
There are 4 points lined out in the article to support the assertion:
the absence of language about climate protection, plus provisions that would "stimulate imports and exports of fossil fuelslike shale gas from fracking or oil from tar sandswhile clean energy production for local communities and associations would be considered unfair competition and a barrier to trade."
a clear threat to the "precautionary principle," which requires regulatory caution where there is scientific doubt, shifting the burden of proof on whether a product is safe to public authorities, not on those who seek to sell it;
the heretofore shrouded "high degree" of corporate influence over the talks.
The General exceptions rule is included in the doc pack they provide at the link. Page 205 of 248 of the combined file states:
enforcing measures:
(a) necessary to protect public morals, order or safety;
(b) necessary to protect human, animal or plant life or health;
(c) necessary to protect intellectual property; or
(d) relating to goods or services of persons with disabilities, philanthropic institutions or
prison labor.
[US: 3. The Parties understand that subparagraph 2(b) includes environmental measures necessary
to protect human, animal or plant life or health.]
Second point of the article on the absence of language of climate protection:
Page 215 of 248:
Article, prepare, adopt or apply technical specifications to promote
[US: (a)] the conservation of natural resources or protect the environment [US: ; or
Page 216 of 248:
(including criteria referring to qualitative, environmental and social aspects applied in
contract award)]
Page 223 of 248
with environmental, social and labor law, or because the supplier has obtained subsidies, the tender
can be rejected on that ground alone only after consultations with the supplier where the latter is
unable to prove, within a sufficient time fixed by the procuring entity, that the evidence supplied
does not satisfactorily account for the low level of price proposed or that the subsidy in question
was granted in compliance with the disciplines relating to subsidies laid down in this Agreement.
On the third point of the precautionary principle:
I've still got a lot of reading to do, but so far I'm not seeing anything that either substantiates the claim or refutes it.
On the 4th point I 100% agree. That these have to be "leaked" is absurd in the most mild language I could use to describe it. These documents should be publicly available for all citizens of all affected countries to have and look at.. from the workers, to the small business owners all the way up to the corporate executives (while this helps some corporations, I'm seeing where more than a few who were probably not invited to the table will have concerns).
On the article, it's too hyperbolic, and in some of its points seems to be misleading at best, and outright false on some of their points at the least. I'd really love to see some journalist take the banner, identify the specific articles and clauses and put forth their meanings for accurate scrutiny.
I'd like to offer special thanks to ghost dog in post #13 for pointing me to the link to the actual documents for download. Will revert more after I've had some more "bathroom time reading" on them.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)https://medium.com/the-trans-pacific-partnership/table-of-contents-83d9de8d01b5#.nbt0hatfy
Proving again that right-wing nuttery exists in its own fact-free bubble I guess.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)The EU version
Proving again that The Hillarians are willfully ignorant.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Figures.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)The OP is about the TTIP not the TTP. There is a difference.
Response to Ferd Berfel (Original post)
mrr303am This message was self-deleted by its author.