Economy passengers may rage after being marched through first class

[sofa king]

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/05/air-rage-is-more-common-when-economy-class-passengers-see-first-class/

Research on inequality usually looks at fairly static social structures like schools, transport, healthcare, or jobs. But sometimes glaring inequality can be quite fleeting, as researchers Katherine DeCelles and Michael Norton argue in a recent PNAS article. Their example? Coming face to face with just how awful airplane economy class is in comparison to first class.

...

If the passengers boarded from the front of the plane and walked through first class rather than directly into economy class, the chance of an economy class incident was 2.18 times greater. But this pales in comparison to the rage that having the riff-raff wander through their cabin apparently causes first class passengers: the chance of a first class air rage incident on front-boarding flights was 11.86 times greater.

__________________

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at such things. Charles Dickens and Mark Twain spilled a lot of ink over this premise; Curtis Mayfield wrote many songs about it, and so on. But it's nice to see inequality actually quantified. (Also note the usual poop-on-the-proles headline which serves up the much less likely underclass raging first while the 400+ % more common first class raging gets the undercard.)

It's also nice to notice that even though the privileged are a smaller demographic with much less to complain about, it is they who are much more likely to cause trouble when they get to see the disparity between themselves and the unwashed masses. It suggests to me that their complaining spawns from fear of losing privilege, rather than being unfairly treated.

[edhopper]

1. Maybe if they stopped making economy so uncomfortable

and doing everything they can to make the experience awful, most passengers wouldn't mind.

But when you make the seats more and more uncomfortable, give enough leg room for a ten year old child and charge for every little thing, anger might be the correct response.

[LiberalEsto]

2. but we need reminders

that we're just worthless eaters. Otherwise we might forget our places.

[scscholar]

105. And that is why these Republican-controlled corporations...

do this. They're rubbing our noses in it.

[Travis_0004]

3. The fact is people buy based on price

A carrier could make seats bigger, but at the expense of less seats. Then ticket prices go up. Would you spend more to fly on carrier A with more room, or would you choose carrier B with the cheaper tickets.

Airlines have done the math, and low prices are what sells tickets.

[Nye Bevan]

5. Yep. I fly Jetblue a lot and they offer "even more legroom" seats for about $40 extra

in certain rows. Based on the seat selection map these seats are always the last to be sold; the cheaper uncomfortable seats get snapped up first.

[UtahJosh]

9. I know that's a sucker bet.

I'll bet everyone else knows it too.

Those are simply "exit rows" and the like, which are HARDLY more comfortable. Just re-configured to serve the purposes of the plane.

Why in the fuck would I be dumb enough to pony up extra cash for such a bullshit proposition?

I wouldn't, and neither would anyone else with half a brain.

OPTION C, people! Option C!

[Hortensis]

66. Whatever. What about when the NEW planes

cramming people in like sardines become common? This is going to be nothing in comparison. We may need more and beefier stewards.

Interesting article, Sofa King. Thanks.

[MillennialDem]

80. Because you're 6'2 with extraordinarily long thighs (I literally do not fit in a normal economy

seat). I have to sit sideways or spread into the seat next to me.

Paying extra for leg room is a god send.

[Hekate]

108. To get from my town's airport to a regional hub I have to take a 20-passenger plane on the first hop

Last time I was a few rows back from a really tall man -- not overweight at all for his size, just well over 6 feet tall. About a third of his body was in the aisle (leg, arm, shoulder) and his head was brushing the overhead bin. Damn I felt sorry for him.

A couple of years ago I decided to use up my frequent flyer miles and see what first class was like on a visit to my sister. First and foremost it was really hard to make it happen; second, it was for only one way, not round trip; third, except for the seat size and the leg room it was .... (trying to find a word) ... shabby.

As for legroom on the way back, where I used up the rest of my miles in Economy, I discovered that the "enhanced" legroom was well worth it, and I'm short. The surcharge from Buffalo, NY to Los Angeles was $110, because frequent flyer miles couldn't be used for that enhancement. But I was more comfortable than I have been in many long years.

Have I mentioned recently how much I hate modern airlines?

[edhopper]

7. And yet

European airlines aren't this crappy.

It's not that they could make seats bigger, they have made them SMALLER.

[UtahJosh]

10. Exactly! nt

[FLPanhandle]

12. I just returned a couple of weeks ago from flying around Europe

You are over estimating current European airlines. I could tell no difference in their domestic flights vs. US domestic flights.

Their international flights are better and more roomy though.

[edhopper]

21. I am mostly aquainted

with international flights.

Though the few inter-Europe flights I have taken seemed better.

But you have more recent experience.

[Major Nikon]

33. They are about the same. Some are worse.

http://www.smarttravelasia.com/economy.htm

[gopiscrap]

29. I say do what a lot of European countries do

NATIONALIZE ALL TRANSPORTATION!!!!

[Major Nikon]

68. I don't know of any major European carrier that is nationalized

Some of the very minor ones are like Luxembourg. A few like Italy and France have minority stakes that are somewhere around 20%. Germany and the UK are fully privatized. Fully nationalized airlines are more a feature of the middle east. A few major far east airlines and one or two Scandinavian lines are joint ventures.

[Punx]

40. When I was flying around Australia

The coach seats were better. And there were two-three times as many flight attendants as you would see in a typical flight around the US.

Admittedly this was several years ago.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

53. Let me introduce you to Lufthansa's A320s

[edhopper]

56. Are those

terrible?

I flew a domestic Air Berlin flight a few years ago which was fine.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

62. The worst I have personally experienced anywhere

There wasn't even enough legroom for me to try and stretch out enough to stick my feet under the the seat in-front of me.

[edhopper]

63. That is bad

inequity is becoming universal I guess.

[philosslayer]

82. I take it you've never flown Ryanair

[mainer]

93. Ryanair. Barf.

I can't believe anyone would voluntarily climb aboard one of their planes.

[philosslayer]

95. I did

Dublin to Glasgow for $25. 45 minute flight. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[UtahJosh]

8. OR...

A carrier could make seats bigger, but at the expense of less seats. Then ticket prices go up.

OR, they could go with "Option C", which is to keep the seats bigger and make slightly less profit.

Why doesn't anyone ever consider Option C?

Would you spend more to fly on carrier A with more room, or would you choose carrier B with the cheaper tickets.

I'd go with Option C, thanks.

Airlines have done the math, and low prices are what sells tickets.

Airlines have done the math, indeed.

And they've found that pissed-off suckers in cramped quarters still pony up the dough, albeit reluctantly.

And as long as we all buy their bullshit, they'll never have to offer up Option C.

[EX500rider]

15. ".....and make slightly less profit." If they made any less they would be out of business.

Despite incredible growth, airlines have not come close to returning the cost of capital, with profit margins of less than 1% on average over that period. In 2012 they made profits of only $4 for every passenger carried.


http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/02/economist-explains-5

[UtahJosh]

17. I'd love to learn more about the "despite incredible growth" part.

Perhaps they should learn to run their businesses better, without fucking over their passengers in the process.

They managed to do so in decades past...

[EX500rider]

18. "I'd love to learn more about the "despite incredible growth" part." Easy:

In six decades passenger kilometres (the number of flyers multiplied by the distance they travel) have gone from almost zero to more than 5 trillion a year.

[UtahJosh]

28. Thanks.

Sorry to ask, but can you explain that further? I don't get why that hurts the airlines (I'm sure I'm missing something obvious here).

[EX500rider]

38. The growth doesn't hurt them.

The cut throat competition from low cost airlines does.

[tblue37]

32. I think it is fuel costs that eat their profit margin. nt

[tblue37]

47. In the Old Testament: 7 years fat, 7 years lean--stock up during the fat years

to survive the lean ones.*

I assume that is how the airline honchos view it--though I also assume that they won't follow through on the "stocking up" part but instead waste the extra profits through greed and by managing everything badly.
_______
*NOTE: Lest anyone think I am proselytizing--I am an atheist, but I do read a lot in comparative religion.

[philosslayer]

83. You're free to start an airline of your own

If you think current management is incompetent and you can do it better

[AlbertCat]

50. make slightly less profit.

Airlines are already subsidized to death! (not trains however)

The bottom line is flying is too expensive... period.

[philosslayer]

85. You don't think Amtrak is subsidized????

Amtrak wouldn't be in business without subsidies

[Lydia Leftcoast]

92. No airline or railroad in the world

can exist without some form of subsidies.

[AlbertCat]

97. can exist without some form of subsidies.

And yet, some are actually in the 21st century.... and then there's the US.

[AlbertCat]

96. You don't think Amtrak is subsidized????

Last edited Sun May 8, 2016, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

They throw them a nickel every once in a while.

The airlines on the other hand....

[philosslayer]

98. If you call well over a billion dollars a year a nickel

And how are the airlines subsidized?

[jberryhill]

109. They pay for the airports, air traffic control, etc.

The airport racket is almost as good as the stadium racket.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

88. I do not buy on price alone

I check Seat Guru.com, which lets you input your proposed flight and see a diagram of the aircraft you would be flying on. 32" seat pitch is my absolute bottom limit.

Some of those budget airlines offering cheap trips to Europe have only 29-30". There is no ticket cheap enough to make me fly in those conditions. I had 29" seat pitch once on a domestic flight in China. My nose was almost in the hair of the person in front of me.

For years, I flew United, because of their Economy Plus option: same narrow seat, same crappy food, same inadequate in-flight entertainment, same bored flight attendants, but 3" more leg room, which makes a lot of difference at my height.

ANA (All Nippon Airways) used to be my airline of choice for flights to Japan, but then I learned that after four or five years of 34" seat pitch (and attentive Japanese customer service) they were returning to their previous practice of narrower seats with less leg room.

At the same time, Japan Airlines is improving its seating, so I think I will pony up the extra money to fly with them from now on.

There are a lot of naive flyers who think they've scored a great deal because Airline A is $50 cheaper than Airline B. In a sense, they have a point. Why pay more for the same awful experience? But by always going for the cheapest seat, you are encouraging the airlines in their belief that we peasants don't care about comfort. If $50 per person is going to break you, then you really can't afford to make the trip at all.

The most irksome thing about the first class-coach class division is that the price differential is so huge.

In 2007, I priced flights to England, and just for fun, I priced all the different classes. Coach was about $1000 roundtrip. But business class was $7,000, and first class was a whopping $12,000. Don't tell me that business class is 7 times better than coach. I received an at-the-airport upgrade on my last trip to Japan and Korea. Business class was nice, but not 7 times as nice as coach. Maybe 3 times as nice.

The excuse that the airlines give is that they have to price their luxury services that way because so many people upgrade with miles. Ahem, who came up with frequent flyer miles anyway, and who foolishly made it possible to earn them in so many ways (shopping online at normal online retailers through the airline's portal???) that passengers collectively now have more miles than the airlines can possibly redeem in this century? (That's why they've been downgrading the value of miles and making it harder and harder to qualify for awards.)

By the way, as a resident of Minneapolis, I have switched my domestic travel to a local so-called low-cost carrier, Sun Country. Its coach service is exactly the same as Delta or United (free non-alcoholic drinks, food for purchase, six seats across), but their first class, which costs about twice as much as coach, is a real first class with comfy chairs, free alcohol, and a real meal. No TV screen, but I just load my iPad with books, games, and movies, so it's no loss. If you are flying Sun Country and see an offer for a paid upgrade (most are $119 domestically), take it.

[homegirl]

54. Having once

made the mistake of choosing the cheaper ticket I will never repeat it.

An 11 hour flight, dinner service consisted of a sub sandwich that had been assembled and refrigerated 24 hours previously, a surly cabin crew and Nandi airport terminal possibly the worst terminal I have ever had to endure, that includes Banjul in the Gambia for comparison. At least Banjul was outdoors.

[JimDandy]

70. It sure is getting unbearable. On a Delta Connections flight between Seattle and Denver last Nov,

the flight attendant held up the entire B boarding line for economy class for more than a minute, by standing in the aisle in first class and taking alcoholic drink orders from the 1st class passengers. She took drink orders from 2 of those 1st class passengers in that time. I was the economy passenger at the front of the line standing right next to her. She refused to look at me, let alone acknowledge me or the fact that there was a line of about 30 people piled up behind me (They had made all of us check our carry on bags in the breezeway, anticipating no room in the overhead bins). She started to take another order from a 3rd passenger when I finally, quietly said, "Excuse me, we need to board." She turned her back to me and kept right on taking his order. The passenger had the decency to look uncomfortable, but never said a word. He declined a drink and the stewardess finally moved aside so we all could pass. I thought nothing more of it.

Guess what the flight attendant did in retribution to me? Came time to take drink orders from the economy passengers and the fellow next to me gets asked and given a drink. I had been watching the attendant the whole time during his order. Then, without ever directly looking at me-the only other person in those 3 seats, the flight attendant starts to push the drink cart to the seats behind me. I pipe up saying "Excuse me I'd like____" and the attendant replies, without apologizing, that she hadn't seen me! She backs up and gets me the drink. That wasn't the end of it. It came time to pick up the garbage and, yep, I kid you not, she does the same routine. This time as she moves down the aisle behind me, I say loudly over the seats "Would you come back and get this garbage or shall I just aim and throw toward your bag? Several seat rows of passengers undoubtedly heard me. She did the whole "didn't see you" spiel again, but this time she apologized. I made the connection pretty fast then, between my earlier request in 1st class and her snubbing treatment of me.

I've never had anything like that happen on a flight before. The whole flight was memorable because shortly after the garbage service, the plane hit turbulence so bad that I fully expected it to rip apart. Through 5 minutes of really bad shaking, passengers were doubled over in their seats some of them screaming in fright. Worst. flight. ever.

[edhopper]

72. A letter to Delta

might be in order. If they give a shit about their cattle car customers.

[Lionel Mandrake]

106. Delta will ignore your letter.

Like most airlines, Delta doesn't give a shit whether you are happy or not. That's why flight attendants can be rude with impunity. If a passenger complains too much, a flight attendant can arrange to have him arrested.

[Human101948]

76. Airplane travel should be less comfortable: Your Biggest Carbon Sin May Be Air Travel

For many people reading this, air travel is their most serious
environmental sin. One round­trip flight from New York to Europe or to San
Francisco creates a warming effect equivalent to 2 or 3 tons of carbon dioxide
per person. The average American generates about 19 tons of carbon dioxide a
year; the average European, 10.
So if you take five long flights a year, they may well account for threequarters
of the emissions you create. “For many people in New York City, who
don’t drive much and live in apartments, this is probably going to be by far the
largest part of their carbon footprint,” says Anja Kollmuss, a Zurich­based
environmental consultant.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/sunday-review/the-biggest-carbon-sin-air-travel.html

[edhopper]

77. So you are saying

I shouldn't travel?

Forget about going to Italy or France?

When I go to California, should i take a week to drive there?

Point taken, but there is no alternative.

[Human101948]

78. No, you shouldn't drive...

You should stay home or accept the fact that you are contributing to the end of human kind in a massive way. Or are you a climate change denier?

[Travis_0004]

79. Simply being alive is going to affect the climate

We can try to minimize our impact, but the fact is being alive is going to have some impact. Unless you live in a grass hut I'm sure you are contributing to climate change as well.

I'm going to China next month, and I'm flying business class. The plane is going there with or without me.

[edhopper]

99. I guess i have to accept that then.

Cause I aint staying home with my lights off, eating cold food and walking around the block.
Instead i think I will support alternative, non-fossil energy.

[Human101948]

100. There is that solar powered airplane....

http://www.solarimpulse.com/

[edhopper]

103. Yes

and one would hope that is a part of future transportation.

[Warren DeMontague]

101. Why are you posting on the internet?

You do realize where most of our electricity comes from, don't you?

[Human101948]

102. I'm using solar panels for my power....

You can say whatever. Airplanes are still have a carbon foot print the size of Montana.

[Warren DeMontague]

104. And I'm on a 100% renewable plan.

Still, a small piece of unasked for advice (a lecture, if you will): lectures don't generally convince anyone of anything. Believe me, buddy, I'm not flying anywhere unless I have to. But when you're talking about funerals, weddings, taking a baby to see grandparents one last time before the grandparents die, that kind of thing- yeah.... people are still gonna get on an airplane, no matter what someone on the internet tells them to do.

I think most of us are doing what we can, but the real prize is figuring out a clean, renewable way to power our civilization. People are not going to go back to the caves.

And solar power is great, don't get me wrong- I'm all for massive infrastructure investments to bring as much of it online where feasable; but the reality is our power needs are greater than what could be provided realistically by solar at this juncture, barring a project to turn lunar regolith into panels and beam the energy back to Earth as microwaves.

I'm holding out hope for scalable fusion. That would be a game-changer.

[titaniumsalute]

4. People who get pissed about First Class should know this

I flew in First Class often over the 16 years I traveled for business. Was it that I paid ridiculous prices to sit there? No. The airlines reward heavy travelers by upgrading them many times for free. It was a simple luxury in the shitty world of business travel. One year I was on the road nearly 40 weeks Meaning I left my house for at least one overnight trip over 40 weeks. I had two small kids and a working wife who was also going to grad school. It SUCKED. Myself, and many others in First Class, were not privileged...just slightly rewarded for enduring shitty airlines.

[FLPanhandle]

11. As a 2 million miler on Delta Airlines, I agree

I usually get the free upgrade and it makes constant travel bearable.

If I traveled rarely, then sitting in the back for a flight wouldn't too much.

[UtahJosh]

13. Good point. nt

[REP]

16. I fly first because I'm disabled

Flying coach is too painful.

[dembotoz]

36. my best friend also travels much for work and has speacial status due to the miles

upgrades etc

we flew together for a weekend in vegas this year and her status does make a difference.

with some changes in her company it looked like she might not have enuf miles for this status next year and she was in a panic.
Lucky? for her things changed back and she has business trips planned up the ying yang again.....

anyway while sitting at the atlanta airport waiting for the last segment of the red eye flight home she asked me if i thought her life was still glamorous....

the airlines are awful

[mainer]

6. If you got rid of First Class, economy seats would get more expensive

I've heard that First Class helps subsidize the rest of the flight.

[UtahJosh]

14. Got any proof of that?

Half the time I fly to Asia, the first class and business class cabins are near-empty.

Who's subsidizing those flights?

[mainer]

23. NYT article

Though first class represents less than 5 percent of all seats flown on long-haul routes, and business class accounts for 15 percent, those seats combined to generate 40 to 50 percent of airlines’ revenue, according to Peter Morris, the chief economist at Ascend, an aviation consulting firm

.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/21/business/taking-first-class-coddling-above-and-beyond.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

And a chart showing class of seat and how much revenue it generates:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/20/business/inside-the-plane-by-seats-and-revenue.html?action=click&contentCollection=Business%20Day&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

[Major Nikon]

35. Southwest has no first class and they tend to be the cheapest

[mainer]

39. But even they are moving toward a class system

For an extra price, they offer early boarding.

SWA has done a lot of things right. First, they managed to stockpile fuel at a very low price a few years ago. Second, they fly a limited selection of aircraft (737s), which cuts down on maintenance and equipment costs. And they offer very few of the amenities that full-service airlines offer. It's sort of a hybrid between discount and full-service airline, and it really is the friendliest.

[Major Nikon]

42. Most other airlines offer early boarding for more $$$ as well

But regardless, Southwest has decided that one class of service fits their business model. So it's just not universally true that doing away with first class will increase prices. It depends on a lot of different variables. One of which is relying on the 737 which means their flights are relatively short hop decreasing the demand for improved classes of seats.

[mainer]

49. Allegiant Air has a one-class level of service

And it's horrible.

But it's cheap.

So if people hate walking past the first-class section, they could book on Allegiant and share the misery with everyone else on board.

[Major Nikon]

52. Some people view transportation as nothing more than getting from point A to B

When it comes to commercial transportation, I tend to share that view, but I own my own airline so I have other options if I don't like it.

[mainer]

55. Long hauls, different story.

I usually choose to fly coach on short hops, because as you say, point A to point B is what matters.

But a few times I've stumbled off an overnight flight and had to go straight to a complex business meeting, and that sucks.

[Major Nikon]

58. Not for me

I fly internationally usually once or twice a year, sometimes with 12-14 hour legs, and I'm still only interested in the cheapest option. I'm of average height and below average weight with no impediments to mobility, so more room doesn't do that much for me and I really could care less if they bring me a hot towel. I understand some people are going to want different things, but for me I consider them very minor amenities that just aren't worth that much.

[mainer]

59. I don't consider sleep an amenity

I consider it essential!

[Major Nikon]

60. I sleep just fine in coach

On long flights I just get a window seat where I can lean one direction. I put the earbuds in and can easily manage several hours of slumber.

[mainer]

61. Could've done it as a kid

Can't sleep sitting up now that I'm in my 60s. Jet lag is horrible when you get older!

[a la izquierda]

81. I sleep fine in coach on long international flights.

But, I'm 5'1 and under 130, so...there's that.

[1939]

65. Before I retired, I always had an agreement with the people I worked for.

I will travel for work as often as you want without a complaint, BUT

1. Unless there is a really urgent need, I travel out the morning BEFORE a meeting.

2. I leave to come home the morning AFTER the last meeting is over.


Morning flights are usually on-time unless there is a mechanical problem.as the delays and frustration tend to accumulate by early evening. I don't like to leave before a meeting is over to "catch a flight". I deserve 7-8 hours of sleep a night.

[titaniumsalute]

75. Absolutely!

If I have scheduled a meeting before 1pm or so I always flew in the day before. A. I wanted to make sure I actually got there. B. It just made me better prepared for the meeting. Those 6am flights (meaning you are up at 3:30 and at the airport at 4:30am) to get somewhere by 10am for a meeting really took its toll on me. Too much stress, pressure, and fatigue.

Thank goodness I took a job last year that I don't travel anymore. At first (after 16 years of business travel) I was really worried I'd be restless, wanting to hit the road. So far after one year of little travel (two personal trips and one biz trip) I LOVE coming home every night.

[mainer]

25. If First/Business classes weren't profitable, airlines would dump them

Apparently, they help keep airlines afloat.

[mainer]

27. I fly a lot domestically. First/Business is always full.

But then, almost the entire plane is usually full.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. And probably most of them are upgrades

not paid.

[cwydro]

19. I've flown first class and economy.

I couldn't care less how anyone else is traveling.

People who exhibit any kind of "rage", be it "air" or "road" are disturbed people who need help.

[FLPanhandle]

20. +1000

Well said.

[mainer]

22. When I see someone in expensive designer clothes, I don't feel rage

I just think: "They chose to spend their money on that, i choose to spend my money on something else."

[cwydro]

24. Lol. True dat.

However, I've sometimes found designer clothes at Goodwill! One of my favorite shopping places!

[mainer]

26. I love resale shops in nice areas!

I get the biggest thrill out of finding a $1,000 jacket for $100. But that's just the Yankee in me.

[cwydro]

30. Yes, when I really want to splurge lol, I'll go the Women's League shop.

They've got some great stuff usually.

[mainer]

31. US consumers rage about foreign-made clothing

and then they go out and buy only foreign-made clothing because it's cheaper. And complain about the quality.

As pissed off as people are about uncomfortable airline seats, they still demand the cheapest tickets possible. Then they complain that the cheap seats have no amenities. It's why horrid discount airlines survive.

Consumers control the marketplace -- with their pocketbooks. And consumers don't like to spend money.

[oldandhappy]

34. riff-raff!!!

Well that takes care of me.

I have not flown domestically much the last few years. The few times I have flown domestic it has been a zoo. Still fly internationally and have no complaints. Get on, take a pill, sleep, get off.

But your post has made me think. The privileged are demanding in so many ways while the rest of us are on survival so much the time.

[Igel]

37. You confuse inequality

with the psychological and emotional response to inequality.

Inequality is
1 in terms of $
2 in terms of quality of life beyond simple wants
3 in terms of able to meet requirements and/or simple wants
4 in terms of able to barely survive

And $ is in terms of income or wealth, which are different. My parents had a nice house, two nice cars, and took two trips overseas per year. Their income was < $30k/year. They were 75 and had some money.

This article uses "inequality" without a generalizable definition, as far as I can tell. Unequal just means "first" vs "coach." I've flown first class a few times, but never paid for it. Oddly, that was mostly when I had income under $18k/year.

I am still economically inferior to most of those in first class in terms of income and wealth. Yet I have a steady job, wife, kid, house, retirement account, and a lot of fun gadgets and reasonable amount of leisure time. Between me and most of the first-class passengers is probably $30-40k/year. Put me in the middle, somewhere around the 62th percentile. I'm (3) or (2) on that list.

If you drop down from my family income by $30-40k/year, you're down into working poor or, if single w/ kid(s) just poor. They're more likely to not have wife, house, retirement account, as many fun gadgets, and from time to time are strapped for $. They're around #3 on that list, sometimes dipping to (4).

There are societies where the inequality is psychologically worse than in the US but the differences in income are far, far smaller. Perhaps your hut has cement floors or you buy your bread instead of baking it. Your wife has a gold necklace she wears while most don't.

The response is something completely different from the condition. How we respond is partly conditioned and partly natural. But even the natural primate response is subject to volition and training, and the conditioned part is just cultural. When you see somebody preen because of a new thing, confusing their worth as a person with their possession, you know you're looking at somebody not seriously trying to be better than their innate primate responses and somebody likely to be from a culture that confuses dignity and self-worth with external factors and stuff. My father was raised to be content and not respect things like money or poverty, neither makes the man (or woman). My mother was raised to be judgmental--those with more were worth more but invariably morally inferior, those with less were worth less as people and invariably lazy (or oppressed and "somebody," but never her, should help them, unless she really empathized with them). My mother and father had different cultural upbringings, both were white and grew up in the same area, so when I use "culture" that doesn't necessarily mean something like "Saami" or "Latino" (whatever the correlations may actually be).

Down at the level of inequality where basic needs aren't met it's a different story. Feeling inferior because you have fake Gucci or a 12-year-old car that still works is different from feeling inferior because you're hungry as hell and your kids haven't eaten for two days because your income for the last months is less than your food budget.

[GreatGazoo]

41. That's why they shouldn't let monkeys fly...

[jtuck004]

45. Are the "first class people"* already boarded? Do they look at these people as they walk

by?

Or do they just get to see seats?

*"first class people" was the phrase the porter used on the train when our ac broke down. People were going to the other cars to cool off, and he told them he didn't want them bothering the "first class people".

lol.

[WillowTree]

107. I don't travel a lot, but I do fly first class.

We've always been boarded first when I've flown and once I'm seated, I'm either reading, snoozing or watching a video while I wait for the rest of the passengers to board. I'm not giving people the stink-eye as they make their way down the aisle After all they're just people. And I can't say that I've ever noticed anyone sitting around me doing it either, though I will say that sometimes I get to chuckling to myself that it seems like a clown car in that they just keep coming and coming and coming. I don't get where all this "rage" based on seating class is supposed to be coming from.

[mnhtnbb]

46. I HATE flying. I absolutely cannot get comfortable in most coach class seats.

My husband is over 6' and 200+ lbs. When a coach seat occupant puts the seat
back in front of him it literally jams his knees.

So, several years ago I decided that the only way we'd fly a more than 3 hour flight was if we could go business
class. Sometimes we have the miles to upgrade; sometimes we spend the $$. For international flights,
it's the only way I'll make the trip most of the time. We did go to London in January--flying coach--and
scored exit row coach seats for the return trip. Great legroom.


My brother flies a lot for for work and is one of those multi million miles club guys on United. He never flies
anything but business or first and one of the perks of his job--being gone all the time--is that he can
let family use the miles accumulated from all his flying. Really nice perk.

My husband is now 73 and I'm 65. I figure we've earned the right to be more comfortable by flying business class
after all the years we spent flying coach to save money.

[LibDemAlways]

48. The seats are horribly uncomfortable and the

nickel and diming is ridiculous. I booked a ticket on Air Canada recently and wanted to assign myself a seat. I checked out the seat map in coach, selected a seat, and then was asked for a form of payment. $21.00 to reserve a seat. Criminal.

I worked as a travel agent 30 years ago. I routinely made seat assignments, put in meal requests, provided info about how many free checked bags a person could bring, etc. What the hell has happened? Airline greed knows no bounds. I predict credit card swipers on the lavatory doors are coming. Probably $10.00 a pop. It's absurd.

[Travis_0004]

73. 30 years ago every seat was first class

Look at pricing (more so in the 70s) compared to today

In the 70s and even early 80s service was great, it was just unaffordable.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

89. The real downgrading actually occurred in the 1990s

There were several years where I didn't fly at all, and when I returned to flying, I was appalled at the shrinkage of the seats (at that time, I had not gained weight), the poorer quality of the food, and the stinginess of the snacks that came with the drinks.

I knew some people who worked for Delta in Portland, and they told me about all the nickel-and-diming that was going on behind the scenes. The one that really made me roll my eyes was that some bean counter had figured that the airline could save $40,000 a year by not giving passengers lemon slices with their drinks.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

51. I wouldn't pay for first class/business class on any plane where you have to do that

Domestic First/Business class is the worst value out there.

Most of my net worth is tied up in various airline frequent flyer programs and I get free upgrades, but I wouldn't pay double, triple or more for the privilege.

[edhopper]

57. Something I have noticed is

the bigger the plane the worst the seating. Outside turbo-prop puddle jumpers. when I fly along the east Coast the smaller planes are more comfortable than the Jumbos for economy.

[pampango]

64. First class seats cost like 5 times economy. If they want to pay it, more power to them.

We all get to the same destination at the same time.

[mnhtnbb]

67. Actually, that is not always the case.

My husband and I flew business class to Bonaire (from Raleigh/Durham) in March. It cost us less/seat (high season)
than our coach class seat (with extra legroom) to London in January (low season). And the coach class to Bonaire
was more than half the cost of business class.

Our flight time going to London and going to Bonaire was about equal. Coming back from London
we hit pretty strong headwinds and it took longer than the return flight from Bonaire.

[Major Nikon]

69. First class exists more for the sake of loyalty programs

Trade winds are predominately easterly in the North Atlantic, which is why the return trip from Europe inevitably takes longer.

[Shandris]

71. Whoever wrote this headline should be permanently removed from media.

Seriously. That's despicable.

2.18 times greater for economy to 'riot', but 11.86 times for first class, and the headline implies the exact opposite. "If poor people see your money, they'll rage!"

Funny, isn't it? You see the Twitter firestorms over the silliest, stupidest shit. But important stuff like obviously misleading headlines? Nah, can't no one be asked to bother for that. It's almost like its all a show (lol of course it's all a show!).

[sofa king]

74. I completely agree.

That was shitty move on the part of Ars Technica, and I'll bet it's because they don't want to lose their first class seats on their trips to Computex and E3.

[dembotoz]

84. after putting up with security and the waits, folks are just happy to get on the damn plane

they know its a cattle car,they expect a cattle car
they just want to get it done and over with

like a trip to the orthodontist

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

86. More like a colonoscopy ...

... the preparation (waiting, security) is far worse than the flight.

[dembotoz]

94. shitty analogy but accurate

[FlaGranny]

87. First class

might be bothered by me being hustled through, but first class doesn't bother me - I just think of how if there were a crash, they'd be the ones in the most danger of not making it.

[PasadenaTrudy]

90. Great experience flying yesterday

Left my home in So. Pasadena, got dropped off, thru check in and security, to having coffee, all in an hour. I love the Burbank Airport. Beautiful flight to Albuquerque over copper colored canyons.