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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Sat May 7, 2016, 04:41 PM May 2016

The Pain You Feel is Capitalism Dying

https://medium.com/%64joe_brewer/the-pain-you-feel-is-capitalism-dying-5cdbe06a936c#.8n7eulu81

A Global Architecture of Wealth Extraction has been systematically built up to rig the economic game against you. This is why a tiny number of people (current count is 62) have more wealth amongst them than half the human population. Decades of those using tax havens to hide their wealth, unfair trade agreements designed to extract wealth from poor countries, banking regulations and austerity measures meant to destabilize entire economies so massive transfers of wealth can go from everyone else to a tiny financial elite, and election rules that all-but-guarantee only those who become whores to these financial pimps will ever sit in high office....

Why do I say that capitalism (in its corporatist, wealth-extracting form) is dying? There’s a long, detailed story that could be told about this. For the sake of brevity, I will answer with two essential pieces that show how business-as-usual is finished. It is physically impossible for it to continue much longer....

As eloquently described in the writings of Jeremy Rifkin and Paul Mason, the primary motivator for capitalists — to extract wealth from consumer exchange in the form of monetary gain — is crippled by the fact that the science of wealth extraction has become so advanced that every new wave brings diminishing returns. What is called “marginal cost” by economists, the difference between how much it costs to produce something and what people are willing or able to pay for it, is nearly zero now for everything we manufacture or provide as a service. This zero marginal cost trend is breaking capitalism down by the unexpected outcome of its own spectacular success.

Add to this that most of the growth in the global economy in the last 40 years has been in speculative finance. The money system grows faster than the productive “real” economy — with the predictable outcome of market crashes, financial collapse, and structural adjustments (wealth extraction) when the mismatch grows too large. What we end up with is bloated debt too large for everyone to pay back. Combined with the end game of wealth hoarding mentioned above, this is a death knell for capitalism as we’ve known it in the last 100 years.


Buckminster Fuller divided capitalism into stages. For him, the Great Depression was the end of finance capitalism, which was replaced by lawyer capitalism. Now that that appears to be on its last legs, the question is, what is it morphing into? I strongly suspect that the TPP and similar agreements are the blueprint for what Fuller might have called global capitalism.
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The Pain You Feel is Capitalism Dying (Original Post) KamaAina May 2016 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #1
so you believe that 9 years of ZIRP policy by the Federal Reserve is a sign of good economic health? virtualobserver May 2016 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #4
Their first stop will likely be fast food, 7962 May 2016 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #21
Don't forget that the revolution in production techniques Hortensis May 2016 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #50
Do they just snort and walk away? 7962 May 2016 #69
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #72
Insist on $15 an hour? How dare they! KamaAina May 2016 #33
It'll be fine for the few left that will be making it 7962 May 2016 #34
Should they commit suicide? JPnoodleman May 2016 #74
After that, trucking and transportation hatrack May 2016 #66
I see that as a LOT riskier. ONE bad accident & you'll lose MILLIONS 7962 May 2016 #68
Looks like you were closer to the truth than I thought: 7962 May 2016 #75
The end game is when robot workers start selling hamburgers to robot customers. Xipe Totec May 2016 #20
The Establishment Agenda Is Always The Same - Enslave The 99% - Enrich The 1% cantbeserious May 2016 #2
That article is wrong - value comes from labor, not exchange tralala May 2016 #5
I guess that might be dependent on the definition of "value". What is your source? nm rhett o rick May 2016 #6
If I am not mistaken, the notion of value being produced by labor is present from Locke to Marx. beastie boy May 2016 #17
Smith, Ricardo, Marx ... those guys tralala May 2016 #37
The definition of value in terms of economic activity is energy. ronnie624 May 2016 #41
Now that makes sense. What would you recommend I read to learn more about rhett o rick May 2016 #45
There are tons of solid information ronnie624 May 2016 #51
Wow, that's some essay. I have skimmed it and intend to read more thoroughly. rhett o rick May 2016 #53
A lot of people have difficulty understanding the nature and fluidity of energy ronnie624 May 2016 #55
I have studied thermodynamics and understand enery somewhat. I like the application rhett o rick May 2016 #56
Growth can occur only if there is energy entering the system from an outside source. ronnie624 May 2016 #57
I think economic growth comes from creating something that is of value to someone. rhett o rick May 2016 #58
An interesting excerpt. ronnie624 May 2016 #73
Oh? Beethoven1111 May 2016 #7
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #9
Why do you say that? n/t tom_kelly May 2016 #12
Because defending capitalism is practically impossible. ronnie624 May 2016 #44
Roll over Beethoven. redwitch May 2016 #15
I imagine it's difficult to continually come up with new names. nm rhett o rick May 2016 #46
"Communism Creep?" ReRe May 2016 #23
Troll over beethoven tenderfoot May 2016 #39
You win. rhett o rick May 2016 #47
Ha ha ha! I guess it must be 1953! Arugula Latte May 2016 #43
Sorry nothing personal rhett o rick May 2016 #48
History. The experience in Mexico and other countries with staggering inequality Califonz May 2016 #8
its a different world now. If we come down, and we will crash huge, the world will follow. litlbilly May 2016 #11
And the worst are hardly big time capitalists either. 7962 May 2016 #18
capitalism has raise the living standard of more people in the history of he world... AlbertCat May 2016 #67
Any other form of national economy. 7962 May 2016 #70
Yep, the roaring success of non-capitalist countries such as Venezuela Nye Bevan May 2016 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #22
What does race have to do with any of this? (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #38
Nye was being sarcastic I'm sure 7962 May 2016 #36
What's next is Feudalism zeemike May 2016 #13
Capitalism calls never ending consumption "growth". Spitfire of ATJ May 2016 #14
Our economy depends on selling overpriced fraudulent financial products to each other in a game whereisjustice May 2016 #19
What Fuller called "lawyer capitalism" has outlived its purpose and is long dead. beastie boy May 2016 #24
You can call it fusion capitalism, but it's just capitalism. This is what it does. Hydra May 2016 #25
of course it's just capitalism. The label just indicates a new twist to it. beastie boy May 2016 #32
Capitalism... gregcrawford May 2016 #26
"There Are No More Profits to Extract." Hydra May 2016 #27
No. It is the capitalists trying to make -us- die. If it was them dying they would be feeling the jtuck004 May 2016 #28
crapitalism. its not sustainable. pansypoo53219 May 2016 #29
Not until we get voting and election reforms. stillwaiting May 2016 #30
it's the money system Locrian May 2016 #31
Capitalism is dying ReRe May 2016 #40
I do believe that was where I read about FINCAP and LAWCAP KamaAina May 2016 #62
Maybe institutionalized supergreed moondust May 2016 #42
We are a service economy Protalker May 2016 #52
Capitalism Never Worked fasttense May 2016 #63
Dear DOG, I hope so. nt LWolf May 2016 #54
So glad this made the greatest list. whereisjustice May 2016 #59
Here's my take RoccoR5955 May 2016 #60
Plutocracies will last as long as most of the people are okay going without for years and years. Rex May 2016 #61
There are endless theories as to the exact mechanism.. sendero May 2016 #64
A hearty recommend. Bookmarked for later reading. Populist_Prole May 2016 #65
Right Demsrule86 May 2016 #71

Response to KamaAina (Original post)

Response to virtualobserver (Reply #3)

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
16. Their first stop will likely be fast food,
Sat May 7, 2016, 06:43 PM
May 2016

especially if burger flippers are going to insist on 15.00 and hour. Although they will never admit thats what they're getting them for

Response to 7962 (Reply #16)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
49. Don't forget that the revolution in production techniques
Sun May 8, 2016, 09:34 AM
May 2016

doesn't only mean fewer man hours are needed, but that production is incredibly less expensive leading to tremendous profits -- IF THERE IS DEMAND FOR PRODUCT, WHICH DEPENDS ON DISPOSABLE INCOME.

America is extravagantly awash in wealth at levels unimaginable for all of human history, and its businesses and its 300,000,000 people all need national prosperity, not a handful of billionaires holed up on guarded estates, a mostly ruined business sector, and a hundred million living in desperate, unsustainable poverty.

I really expect that "capitalism" will evolve substantially to meet the new realities -- because it is unsustainable as is and has to, and we'll be passing laws to make sure it does. But if it doesn't evolve fast enough we can always socialize enough of production to get the message across. And may well do it anyway to provide good jobs for plenty of people.

Since we need incomes, and business depends on our incomes as much as we do, but less work is required to produce this unprecedented prosperity, the standard workweek will become much shorter.

Sure, there are many problems and a great transition ahead, but we'll eventually get off our butts and meet them. WE are our government and WE are the people of America. Long before America was reduced to one big slum people like the Kochs would be flying out for their lives.

Response to Hortensis (Reply #49)

Response to 7962 (Reply #69)

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
34. It'll be fine for the few left that will be making it
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:05 PM
May 2016

You cannot double the cost of labor without consequences. I posted one of them

hatrack

(59,573 posts)
66. After that, trucking and transportation
Sun May 8, 2016, 04:45 PM
May 2016

Why else would Google et. al. be moving Heaven and Earth for driverless vehicles?

Simple - you can permanently fire millions and millions of pesky, wage-demanding drivers once you get the bugs worked out.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
68. I see that as a LOT riskier. ONE bad accident & you'll lose MILLIONS
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:33 PM
May 2016

And you KNOW it will happen. The test ones have already had a few accidents.
And they'll make the news too. I know you can already get sued even if you have a driver, but this will be different. Also, how long before someone shows up on youtube with how to "hack" a self driving vehicle?
Insurance companies may not even insure them for a long time.

beastie boy

(9,230 posts)
17. If I am not mistaken, the notion of value being produced by labor is present from Locke to Marx.
Sat May 7, 2016, 06:44 PM
May 2016

Locke called it "the fruits of one's labor", Adam Smith called it "human capital" and Marx called it "labor power"

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
41. The definition of value in terms of economic activity is energy.
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:01 AM
May 2016

It comes from the stored energy of the earth's resources and the available energy of human labor, which are then converted into the usable energy of goods and services. The true value never changes because you end with the same amount of energy and matter that you started with. The mass and energy of a thermodynamic system never change in quantity. The Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy establishes the value of all matter and energy as constant and never-changing.

The increasing and decreasing 'value' that is associated with capitalist economics, is purely arbitrary and exists only in the context of the severely flawed 'theories' and illogical ideology that underpin it.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
45. Now that makes sense. What would you recommend I read to learn more about
Sun May 8, 2016, 09:25 AM
May 2016

this? And what do you believe wealth is?

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
51. There are tons of solid information
Sun May 8, 2016, 09:44 AM
May 2016

about applying thermodynamics to economic theory, online. There is a movement to do this. This is the essay that introduced me to the idea:

https://markbc.net/doomer-economic-commentary/thermodynamics-for-economists/

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
53. Wow, that's some essay. I have skimmed it and intend to read more thoroughly.
Sun May 8, 2016, 10:32 AM
May 2016

Thanks. I saw where he defined money. I hope he defines wealth and economic growth.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
55. A lot of people have difficulty understanding the nature and fluidity of energy
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:09 AM
May 2016

and how readily it is converted from one form into another through a thermodynamic process. Some forms of energy are very subtle.

A ball bearing, for example, sitting all alone on a table, doing absolutely nothing, still contains energy within its mass, which can be readily converted into inertia, which is essential to the conversion of electrical or combustible energy into kinetic energy. It helps to keep in mind, that matter and energy are one in the same, so the Laws of Thermodynamics apply universally.

I've heard people say that the Laws of Thermodynamics are a "quaint intellectual exercise", but they "don't really apply to economics". Economic activity however, by definition, is the act of converting and dispersing energy. A suspension of rational thought is very clearly essential to embracing so called 'mainstream economic theory'.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
56. I have studied thermodynamics and understand enery somewhat. I like the application
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:18 AM
May 2016

to economics which I don't understand very much. Skimming the essay I noted that he said that without economic growth wealth is zero-sum. I have been trying to say that here. So the capitalists' need to accumulate wealth when the economy isn't growing need to steal the wealth. That's what the so-called bank crisis was, theft. I hope he defines economic growth.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
57. Growth can occur only if there is energy entering the system from an outside source.
Sun May 8, 2016, 11:34 AM
May 2016

The energy from the sun is the only such source, and we do not currently use it as a major source of usable energy for economic activity. That is why it is important to develop this technology as soon as possible. Growth, is a concept that exists only in the context of market economics, not in the physical world.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
58. I think economic growth comes from creating something that is of value to someone.
Sun May 8, 2016, 12:17 PM
May 2016

I think that using natural resources can cause economic growth. Just thinking out loud. Need to research more.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
73. An interesting excerpt.
Mon May 9, 2016, 11:42 AM
May 2016
Money acts as a mutually agreed-upon intermediary between everyone in a society, representing the relative value of the claims of ownership of items that are offered for exchange. It is like a formalized, but anonymous, handshake as in the barter system. Because everyone accepts money as being a valuable thing to receive in return for giving up ownership of something real, you accept what is otherwise a worthless token, from some stranger you’ve never seen before, in exchange for something useful because you know that in the future you will be able to trade it in for some other real item of value that you want. You don’t know exactly what you will want or when you will want it, but you accept money as a representation of the wealth that you could own. So at its core, money is simply a symbolic representation of ownership, a non-specific claim over real world goods, services, or rights that hasn’t been exercised yet; the ownership is hypothetical.

[center]◇◇◇◇◇◇◇[/center]

So from the above it becomes clear that all of the claims of wealth that money serves as a proxy for basically just boil down to claims on human labour, and by extension all of the ecological production that went into supporting that labour, since that is where the vast majority of all this stuff and energy come from that enable these goods, services, and rights to be “produced”. So to state it once more: money is a claim on ecological production, and specifically on how that ecological production is turned into useful or enjoyable things or services for us, via our brains, bodies, and machinery.


https://markbc.net/doomer-economic-commentary/thermodynamics-for-economists/

The concept of wealth implies growth in value beyond that which exists in the physical universe in the form of usable energy or goods and services. Since value is directly related to a given quantity of resources and energy, and creating matter and energy is at odds with the Laws of Thermodynamics, it logically follows that creating wealth is impossible.

It's helpful to keep in mind, that we never create. All we are ever doing through our economic activity, is converting and dispersing energy, and in the process, we will always sustain a net loss.

Response to Beethoven1111 (Reply #7)

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
44. Because defending capitalism is practically impossible.
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:44 AM
May 2016

It is illogical, wasteful and unjust, and it now threatens our very survival. The current ideology that attempts to rationalize it, simply cannot withstand real scrutiny, so its adherents have little choice but attack its critics ad hominem.

 

Califonz

(465 posts)
8. History. The experience in Mexico and other countries with staggering inequality
Sat May 7, 2016, 06:22 PM
May 2016

vastly worse than in the USA, shows that these conditions can persist for decades, even centuries.

 

litlbilly

(2,227 posts)
11. its a different world now. If we come down, and we will crash huge, the world will follow.
Sat May 7, 2016, 06:25 PM
May 2016

In this age of instant info, they wont be able to hide it.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
18. And the worst are hardly big time capitalists either.
Sat May 7, 2016, 06:46 PM
May 2016

Look at Venezuela. Cuba. N Korea. Failures all
While there are certainly people left behind, capitalism has raise the living standard of more people in the history of he world than any other form

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
67. capitalism has raise the living standard of more people in the history of he world...
Sun May 8, 2016, 04:53 PM
May 2016
....than any other form

Form of what?

Capitalism isn't a form of government. The way capitalism is used by a Fascist, plutocratic, democratic, monarchy, yeah even a "socialist republic" can all be different....is different. No?
 

7962

(11,841 posts)
70. Any other form of national economy.
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:38 PM
May 2016

Sure, you can tinker with the minutiae, but the bottom line is still the same. Without the incentive of success, a lot of people are just not going to do any more than they think they have to. We see it all the time.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
10. Yep, the roaring success of non-capitalist countries such as Venezuela
Sat May 7, 2016, 06:24 PM
May 2016

certainly gives one pause for thought, especially compared to capitalist hell-holes like Denmark and Switzerland. Capitalism is indeed in its death throes.

Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #10)

Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #35)

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
36. Nye was being sarcastic I'm sure
Sat May 7, 2016, 09:13 PM
May 2016

But you're right about Denmark. And people need to look into WHY thats the case. And the Danes also kicked their social democrats out of power last year. But they're still one of the happiest populations, so it must not be too bad

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
13. What's next is Feudalism
Sat May 7, 2016, 06:29 PM
May 2016

Because when capital controls all the money the only thing left is the land itself...and once they control the land people are just surfs that live on it at the pleasure of the "King".

And we are closer to that than most people think. Most of the farmable land in the US is owned by a few corporations.
The wealth of a nation is in it's land.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
19. Our economy depends on selling overpriced fraudulent financial products to each other in a game
Sat May 7, 2016, 06:47 PM
May 2016

of musical chairs. Everyone thinks they can outscam the other guy.

beastie boy

(9,230 posts)
24. What Fuller called "lawyer capitalism" has outlived its purpose and is long dead.
Sat May 7, 2016, 07:16 PM
May 2016

When the capitalist elites discovered it was more efficient to have laws passed for their benefit rather than use existing laws for the same purpose, capitalism has morphed into what I would call fusion capitalism, where distinction between capital and government is being slowly eroded. Essentially, government has become, in the same way as labor or technology, a means of producing capital which, in turn, is invested into government to produce more of the same. Curiously, every single political system throughout the world has produced the same relationship between capital and government. In this sense, capitalism is more global than anyone gives it credit.

How long this phase of capitalism will continue is anyone's guess.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
25. You can call it fusion capitalism, but it's just capitalism. This is what it does.
Sat May 7, 2016, 07:33 PM
May 2016

It grows by itself by consuming every resource around it. When it encounters a barrier it goes over, around or through it the easiest way it can, and then later it absorbs it into its form. The Gov't is a powerful tool and source of money, eventually it has to consume it and turn it to its purpose.

All of this will keep going in a predictable fashion until the snake is forced to eat its tail.

beastie boy

(9,230 posts)
32. of course it's just capitalism. The label just indicates a new twist to it.
Sat May 7, 2016, 07:50 PM
May 2016

there was always collusion between it and the government in the so called developed world. But now it's something new: governments all over the world are becoming the means of producing capital, just like heavy machinery, web domains or labor. You invest in them and get returns on your investment. This wasn't the case only a few decades ago.

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
26. Capitalism...
Sat May 7, 2016, 07:37 PM
May 2016

... in simplest terms, is the manipulation of other people's money. It has precisely ZIP to do with "Free Enterprise," and anyone who says otherwise is a liar, fool, or both. What we are facing now is corporatism in its most malevolent form.

Astute readers already know that "corporatism" was what Mussolini preferred to call his form of government. 21st-century corporatists eschew cartoonish uniforms in favor of Armani. They learned from the PR mistakes of corporatism's 20th century proponents, and couch their rhetoric in simplistic terms acceptable to those who have been indoctrinated to worship capitalism without really knowing what it really is.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is the culmination of everything these evil bastards have worked toward for lo, these many years. It doesn't spell the end of capitalism, it heralds the end of even the pretense of democracy.

It is my fear that the battle to head off the TPP will result in another civil war, but if that is what it takes to destroy these monsters once and for all, then so be it. There is no greater evil on this planet than corporatism. Kill it at all costs, or be its slave.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
27. "There Are No More Profits to Extract."
Sat May 7, 2016, 07:37 PM
May 2016

You can see this now- The large forces of capitalism are looking all over for easily exploitable wealth and coming up empty. Even digging into the treasury has a limit. During the forced collapse of 2006-2008, you saw them cannibalizing their own.

You could do some more creative things to keep the grinder going(like Syria), and I'm sure they will continue to do so..but how much longer can they keep up the insanity?

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
28. No. It is the capitalists trying to make -us- die. If it was them dying they would be feeling the
Sat May 7, 2016, 07:38 PM
May 2016

pain that they are not.

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
30. Not until we get voting and election reforms.
Sat May 7, 2016, 07:46 PM
May 2016

They own us through the system Dubya pushed on us (and Democrats have allowed).

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
31. it's the money system
Sat May 7, 2016, 07:50 PM
May 2016

Creation of money by creation of debt insures a transfer of wealth, which requires constant growth to prop up the ponzi scheme.
The recent acceleration is just the faster transactions (telegraph, then tele-com, then internet).


It's now an extractive economy - based on sucking out value and "creating" money without "doing" anything. Companies want to pull money out of actually creating real value (things, goods, services) and gamble on the market. There is less incentive to actually produce or improve or make anything because it's more profitable (and less risky w/ bail outs etc) to "gamble".

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
40. Capitalism is dying
Sat May 7, 2016, 11:27 PM
May 2016
K&R

Marking to come back and finish reading!

I submit a book to read: Critical Path, by Buckminster Fuller
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
62. I do believe that was where I read about FINCAP and LAWCAP
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:04 PM
May 2016

I also liked how Fuller called out "non-wealth-producing occupations" like those in finance. He said we'd be better off if we paid such people to stay at home!

Protalker

(418 posts)
52. We are a service economy
Sun May 8, 2016, 09:57 AM
May 2016

Consumer spending moves our economy
When capitalism worked disparity in wages from lowest worker to CEO was reasonable. Highest tax bracket was 90%. The president warned about the military industrial complex. The proletariat won't vote on off year elections. To busy keeping up with the whoever.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
63. Capitalism Never Worked
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:19 PM
May 2016

If you mean capitalism rewarded hard work equally.

It has always required labor to suffer so capatalist could profit. In other words somone had to lose in order for someone to profit.

But it was a little better than slavery and feudalism. It allowed the person to decide who would profit off their under reward labors.

Now we need to evolve out of capitalism just like we evolved out of feudalism and slavery.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
60. Here's my take
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:31 PM
May 2016

No jobs, nobody buys goods/services. Nobody buys goods/services, no demand. No demand, no profits. No profits, no capitalism.
Plain and simple.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
61. Plutocracies will last as long as most of the people are okay going without for years and years.
Sun May 8, 2016, 01:32 PM
May 2016

Watching their children and then grand children have a harder time succeeding with each passing decade. Watching the middle class vanish due to disaster capitalism.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
64. There are endless theories as to the exact mechanism..
Sun May 8, 2016, 02:28 PM
May 2016

... and most of them involve a lot of hand waving IMHO but anyone who doesn't think "this sucker is going down" is not paying attention.

ZIRP in and of itself is evidence that the patient is on life support and when the Fed tried to literally INCH back to normality with a .25% increase in rates the ship shuddered and tossed like it hit an iceberg.

We are living in interesting times.

Demsrule86

(68,455 posts)
71. Right
Sun May 8, 2016, 06:44 PM
May 2016

well, I think I will have a glass of wine...eat the salmon my kids grilled for me and enjoy my bourgeoisie pleasures while I can...hehe.

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