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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDo I sound like a snob? The rise of Trump correlates directly with the abysmal degradation
of American culture. Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, Sarah Palin, social media and the emperor of mindless crud, TV, have also been prime movers. It's not really Bill's fault: How could he have known that appearing on Arsenio Hall with his saxophone could have triggered such a sea change in Presidential politics? Was it MTV that introduced the now de rigeur question, "Boxers or briefs"? At least we haven't sunk to bikini or thong? Yet.
Donald is the garbage culture candidate. And he fits neatly with another piece of the American psyche: That broad streak of casual brutality that courses through our history.
We don't deserve Trump, but he's as American as a microwaved hot pocket.
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HubertHeaver
(2,522 posts)"Depends".
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Come on, who cares?
And also: That kind of thing is trivial and yet private. We should talk about politics, not personal bullshit.
Something to have repeated at certain key moments, along the lines of: Consensual relations among adults are none of your business and furthermore, are not important to this job.
That might have changed the world, ha.
But of course, who the hell are we talking about? He was the problem!
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Read just about any blog or newspaper. The Kardasians or tRump are in the headlines. These no talent people do anything and everything to stay in the news. tRump's wife is Botoxed to the hilt, like the K family. Maybe in 4 years, Kanye West will run for the WH.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I was smugly snobbish in my ignorance of things such as the Kardashians, and apart from watching a half season of Trump's show the second season because a friend of mine was actually ON the show (I stopped watching when she was "fired"
I've not had the tolerance for such drivel. I've turned the television back on after being absent for years with the advent of roku and the ability to watch documentaries and old Monty Python episodes at will. And all was right with the world.
However it would seem my plan to stay forever ignorant of such things have come to a grinding halt, as pop culture has come crashing into my world, as well as into the life of my kindred spirits.
You don't sound like a snob, cali, you just sound like sane.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)My 'TV' broke about that long ago.
Since then we only watch carefully selected shows such as Fargo and Boardwalk Empire.
I have not seen network TV or news since around the 2000 election.
That's probably why the TV broke.
It could not stand the stress.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Every TV personality, whether they are cast as a "liberal" or a "conservative," is lying to us about something. Sometimes it's simply a lie of omission.
Corresponding with the mutation of TV news to TV propaganda, all elements of American education have been rigidly codified, dumbed down, and force-fed to the nation. The nation's ability to discern between truth and falsehood has been eroded in service to the oligarchy. We've now reached the point in America when "truth" and "falsehood" are partisan conceits: one set of truths for liberals and one set for conservatives. The real 'truth' is concealed from both sides as often and as effectively as possible.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)...to a TV when it was in the other room?
Especially daytime...
...they sound like thought experiment machines.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)Kittycat
(10,493 posts)We're in the process of trailing VUE. We can set up individual accounts for the kids (up to 5 accounts), to control the channels and shows. There's enough, that we don't need the trash slipping through.
I'm already trying to deal with my 3rd grader crying Betty Davis tears because he's the only one in his class who isn't allowed to text. I told him I was 16 before I could talk on the phone to my friends when my parents weren't in the room, and his eyes turned to saucers.
Kids these days.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I don't have kids and I give you a LOT of credit for what you're doing. I'm sure if I had kids I'd have them encased in lucite with blinders on until they reached 18. I'd have been an awful, awful parent; I'd be overcompensating for my own childhood (emancipated at 16 and pretty much left to my own devices and tasked with the care of my younger sister at age 10).
I'm sure if I did have children they'd all swear like truck drivers though...just like their mom, and their mom's mom before her.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Amazingly diverse talent and musician.
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)the man was an amazing talent and an anonymous contributor to many worthwhile causes. No, I would never lump an artist like Prince in with the Kardashians. Palin, and other media darlings who really are, in my opinion, no talent children. Being flamboyant is nothing like being rude, crude and completely irrelevant.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)The repeal of the Fairness Doctrine,
thanks to Bill Clinton, opened the
floodgates to a media takeover by
oligarchs whose intent is to monopolize
the media and use it as a tool of division.
This blaming republicans and pretending
democrats are victims is utter bullshit.
Democrats are either incompetent or complicit.
Either way they are also responsible.
randome
(34,845 posts)How have Democrats coarsened our culture?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Every time a democrats use pejoratives,
name call *rethuglicans* or lower
themselves through twitter snark
or other inane messages they ARE
contibuting to the coarsening of culture.
Degrading Trump, deservedly or not,
is EXACTLY the issue the OP questions.
How is it that the degradation of others
is acceptable, as long as it's not one
of our own?
Other-ism is a root of dehumanization,
degradation and coarsening of culture.
None of which would be possible without
the dumbing down and anti-intellectualism.
randome
(34,845 posts)When pretty much everyone on both sides think Trump is a big-mouthed buffoon, I don't see the problem with saying that out loud. And Trump is a brand new phenomenon, so our culture hasn't had time to be degraded by our response to him yet.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)What do you call it when someone
does EXACTLY the things they detest
or protest against?
randome
(34,845 posts)Let's also stop using the words 'bigot' and 'racist' and 'misogynist' in case they hurt your delicate sensibilities, too.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)Even du is pandering. As a result we get desensitized and constant exposure legitimizes Trump... that's the failure of Democrats to stop the conservative authoritarian types who are really more comfortable as right wingers fucking over the middle class and complaining that we are too hard on the rich while enjoying too many civil liberties. That's what the Dem Party has become.
The wars..the idiotic spying...corporate control of public health...education costs...trade agreements..contributing to class war and alienating people. The vacuum of representation is filled by idiot opportunistic conservatives like Trump.
Trump is as much a product of a hostile Democratic Party as he is a product of hostile Republican party.
randome
(34,845 posts)It's a slow but inevitable decline we should celebrate. I think it's a stretch to link economics to rude Internet posters. I don't see class warfare at play in calling Trump a bigot or a buffoon. I think the Internet itself has encouraged rudeness because of its inherent anonymity. And exacerbating that is overpopulation, where it's become far too easy for small groups to form their own bubbles and echo chambers.
Corporate control of public health has been around for as long as there have been hospitals. A failure to adequately fund education absolutely contributes to the worsening of society. Who is to blame for that? No matter where you look, the odds are that a Republican is at the root of it.
Democrats are not the same as Republicans. Could we be better? Absolutely. But equivalency is not an explanation for all our ills. Republicans have held onto power for far too long. If we want changes, that's where it starts.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)protest and opposition and willingness to fight back hard is enabling and legitimizing Republicans as equals.
Instead of representation for working class Americans, we get "PayDay" Wasserman Schultz and Hillary Clinton.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)the power elite oversaw it even if they didn't quite understand it, and the people ate that shit up.
thucythucy
(8,045 posts)Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Reagan was the one who repealed the Fairness Doctrine.
Edited to add: I just looked this up. The Fairness Doctrine was pealed in 1987, while Reagan was president.
cali
(114,904 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)And you include Clinton as an example of 'coarsening' the culture by playing a saxophone?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
cali
(114,904 posts)For example, Bill made going on late night teevee, de rigeur. It's not just that repubs produce the worst of the worst.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
cali
(114,904 posts)
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)You need to keep up.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)...have been with us for a long time.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)A party that abandondoned the working class in favor of war, poverty, austerity, Wall Sreet amnesty, and idiotic "pragmatic" capitulation with the most toxic political elements in the free world...conservatives.
The rise of a reviled candidate like Hillary whose tall tales, whoppers and indiscretions continue unrestrained, is a giant fuck you to liberals. DNC has killed any meaningful resistance to the toxic supplyside neocon group think at the heart of a conservative political movement differentiated in the margins of change only when politically convenient...eg gay marriage.
Unrestrained greed infecting finance, education, health care, housing... The essential pieces of social infrastructure needed to sustain quality of life has been left to metastsize like a cancer by the Democratic Party.
Democratic Leaders continue to engage in class war against voters they take for granted.
Democrats talk a good game but don't follow through...instead they tuck in behind Republicans just a bit to the left.
On a more personal note you've been nothing but dismissive and rude to me in the past but I don't care. I can see by your post why that is the case...it's the simple fact that Democratic Party has become almost as exploitative and cynical and manipulative as Republican Party. I don't care if this isn't a prevailing popular 500 rec point of view. I'd rather speak truth in an era of denial. The facts present themselves in costs of living vs wages and free time to pursue life outside of work. I am correct in my assessment.
Middle Class and below in the USA have NO political representation...this is something reserved for the Hillary class metropolitan opera liberal and the Trump class CEO sociopaths.
Trump is a cynical protest vote against mainstream stink bombs like Hillary.
It all boils down to a lack of leadership and representation leaving a vacuum being filled by extremists like Trump and Cruz.
Two political parties are chasing after the same money.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)this a deliberate program designed
to commercialize and dehumanize us.
Democrats are VERY culpable in the
decline of our culture as they seek to do
the bidding of their campaign contributors...
corporations
Divide and conquer.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)the market. By lack if leadership I mean of the kind who actually fights for criminal justice and economic equality.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Congress Critters profit handsomely
when they fail to "lead", and do what
their corporate owners demand.
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)What the left has been saying for years but has been ignored by the MSM because they are part of the problem. Add the defunding and dumbing down of schools, bringing back religion into schools, basically we are screwed unless we can get enough people to speak out and fight back. Thanks to both of you for posting.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)reflect my views anymore ... DNC/DLC/DWS/HRC, so, I left. That said, I still vote as a democrat.
Triana
(22,666 posts)SujiwanKenobee
(290 posts)Brought to you by the general stupidity of what now passes for civilization.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Twice.
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)The dumber and coarser
society gets, the more control
the oligarchs have over our lives.
It's a *feature* of commercializing
our lives and minds, not a *bug*
in the programming of culture.
It's a systematic exploitation of
the lowest common denominator
of anti-intellectualism, base emotions,
and a heaping serving of truthiness.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201407/anti-intellectualism-and-the-dumbing-down-america
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/
The same kind of callousness, the same kind thoughtlessness, the same disregard for propriety and the same uninterest in what kids really need and like dominates throughout the culture industries. If you watch Saturday morning kids' TV, you can see it in programming that is unrelievedly frantic, hyped-up, hysterical, and, in its own way, quite violent and pervasively commercial. It's all about selling, and this, I think, is the primary reason why there is something of a crisis nowadays, a cultural crisis involving children. It is not because there are fugitives from the 1960s generation who are in control of the media. It's not a communist plot. It's not because bad people are involved in those industries. It's because of the inordinate influence of commercial logic and the commercial imperative overall.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/themes/coarse.html
Moostache
(9,895 posts)Well...at least Chuck Palahniuk was right.
" God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need."
"You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis."
This entire society is rotting from the inside out.
Its been going on for a long time, but its accelerating to terminal velocity now.
Razors.
Insurance.
Viagra.
Beer.
Cars.
You cannot escape efforts to sell you something every 20-30 seconds of your day.
Even if you swear off TV, Radio, Internet, Print and Smoke Signal...billboards pollute the view of every interstate and highway, every bus, train or plane has a minimum of 2 logos (whoever built it and whoever bought it)...no one can escape the capitalist system that is strangling the planet.
A full political, social, military and philosophical revolution is 16 years past due (Florida 2000)...some would argue its now 52 years past due (Dallas 1963). The fact is that Trump and the media are nothing more than the excrement that comes out the pipeline when we allowed capitalists to stuff every single input available. As their power grew, the obvious outcome simply continued to pick up steam.
Trump is the answer to the question "what would happen if we elevate the vapid to the apex predator position of society?"
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)As Americans we let our Democracy slip through our collective fingers. Some of us tried to stay inform and do our civil duty, but too many got disgusted and disenchanted with the ugly process that seemed to elect corrupt candidates no matter who we voted for.
The biggest culprit was the MSM propaganda. The TV generation of which I am one were used to Walter Cronkite, the "...most trusted man in America" and never realized that things didn't stay that way after he was gone. Overtime our thought, beliefs, and even the "facts" we're co-opted by slick MSM types. We have been manipulated ever since. We were lead to believe that what happened in Washington was real (some is, some isn't as the two Parties still battle for control), but they became answerable to the same Big Donors and less and less answerable to the voters.
Our candidates have been pre-selected by the Oligarch's for some time now so that they win either way. I think Trump was originally there to be the bigger, badder Bogeyman to force non-Hillary supporters into voting for her as the lesser of two evils choice. In my opinion, they needed someone extremely bad for many of us to vote for Hillary. They accomplished their goal, but may have made a mistake as too many Americans are trained to the hate he spews as much as Pavlov's dogs were trained to a ringing bell. They are not worried as Trump will still do the Oligarch's bidding, he will just screw up a lot and embarrass the rest of us!
You are not a snob, just another like me who cannot believe that the propaganda, years of poor public education, and Americans working so much that many cannot keep up with politics enough to know what is going on!
Divernan
(15,480 posts)
vlyons
(10,252 posts)Do you dislike saxophones, or just music in general? As a high school student, Bill Clinton has more music scholarships than academic scholarships. That he continues to play sax, even tho privately now is to his credit. Donald Trump is vulgar, because he chooses to be. He lacks self-control. Trump grew up with the advantages of a wealthy family. He could have chosen to learn to play an instument. He could have chosen a more liberal education, but he didn't.
cali
(114,904 posts)elections. And really, I am a bit of an intellectual snob, though perhaps not in the way that you might imagine.
crim son
(27,464 posts)I'm not sure I agree with what cali is saying here, but she isn't dissing musicians.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)I say that Americans are not interested in following national and world events like they used to. Watching Trump fire a celebrity is much more entertaining. I agree with the OP.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)when you're working one or two jobs and raising kids that has you traveling all over the place for things, especially kids into sports, your time is pretty much gone. All you want at the end of the day is an hour to essentially decompress and not think.
The last thing you'll do is dig into the disturbing political events of the day.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)American has never been higher.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)Which is what I did. My signficant other has zero time for any of it. an hour of travel per day, nine hours of work, 2-3 of baseball games or practices for her son, add in a meal and what's left by 8pm? Your mind simply doesn't want to dig into something meaty like politics and news. you want something light.
kairos12
(12,852 posts)Zambero
(8,964 posts)Live and on camera. And Reagan's lengthy presidential qualifying resume included conversing with a chimp named Bonzo. Truman was not afraid to use salty language every now and then. Indeed, how far back can this be taken?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Maximus offering games of glory to the plebeians.
Pandering to the lowest common denoninator is as old as politics.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)the more you disconnect from culture.
And frankly, the more you disconnect from the next generation of voters. So please, have it. We could use a hell of a lot less of these kinds of snobby, smug and isolationist type liberals around here. They're the equivalent of the holier than thou Christian Republicans we mock so routinely.
Please, keep reinforcing how your abstaining from the culture of the country makes you better.
cali
(114,904 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)You'll be disconnected. I see this in my own family. Due to my line of work I'm fairly well plugged into pop culture. So at the family dinner table, I get exactly what the kids are talking about and they engage fully with me on everything. My significant other and the kids grandparents who live with us are just oblivious to it all. And that comes in the form of culture and politics. My significant other has said multiple times that it's like listening to people talk in a foreign language around her when we get into it, from music to movies to books to celebrity and so forth.
Without that, their engagement is basically talking just about school and little else other than perhaps some of what's going on in a general sense of schedule and the like.
I had the same with my father; he had absolutely no idea what I was into or talking about and as time went on he further disconnected from me and made for a strained relationship. My mother kept engaged with the pop culture side and communicated with me which in turn brought up discussions elsewhere of greater depth about life and politics because of the commonalities through culture.
cali
(114,904 posts)Zambero
(8,964 posts)It's possible to compartmentalize serious policy considerations and qualifications to make important decisions from the occasional light-hearted diversions that reflect contemporary culture and serve to put a human face on politicians. Trump, on the other hand, manages to blur all distinctions. His lack of political intelligence ties in directly with his outlandish comments that simultaneously demean, divide, and entertain, energizing his base of support in the process.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Pop culture for example did not demand that teachers be attacked and that elementary school classrooms be turned into workmanship performance tests with an iPad and a life-score for every child. Pop culture did not demand a consolidated media and marketing system that scientifically cultivates people into 1000 fake demographics associated with personality and identity types that should be reinforced and catered to. Pop culture did not demand the breakdown of distinctions between labor and leisure time. These kinds of developments are a long and top-down process, albeit with popular assent, and the current phase is called neoliberalism.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I know the general outlines of pop culture but not specifics. I find its more than enough to converse about and to understand its place in a discussion.
What has never happened is having Janet Jackson's Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction play any part in substantive dialog.
For my part, there are simply some conversations I'm uninterested in having. The fine points of constructing a shed, mixing cocktails, antiquing, DIY crafts, Coke v Pepsi, cross fit, reality teevee shows like Trump's, and which gown was more superior couture on the red carpet aren't interesting to me. I'm a better person because I follow what I'm interested in, not what others say I should be interested in.
I don't find cali to be a snob. I think she's just interested in different things and that's ok.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Don't make it generational as you're insulting a portion with a stereotype
panader0
(25,816 posts)And one need look no further than the trash passing for entertainment on TV.
No, you do not sound like a snob to me.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without knowing civilization"
Nay
(12,051 posts)"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." - Oscar Wilde
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)and it sums things up nicely.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)As more related to the internet than anything else. We are able to share information today in ways simply not possible 20 years ago. We can spread hate, anger, outrage, insult, senationalism and histrionics anonymously. We build communities today in ways not possible before. The only limitation today is access and language. We come together nationally and internationallu to share similar goals and ideals. We have DU but then we also have stormfront, ISIS, etc. The media can use its access to information to expoit and sensationalize tragedies for profit. When they engage in these actions, millions consume the information which generates advertising revenue in greater numbers than was not possible before. The sensationalization in turn fuels the outrage. Online communities attack each other... the cycle repeats.
I do love the internet. I love no longer being forced to just be content not knowing what movie an actor starred in 30 years ago or the lyrics to some song. I love not being forced to open a 15 year old encyclopedia to look something up. I sometimes think though that we have completely overlooked how the information age has harmed out society.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)And turn that hipping-and-hopping down.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Although I think I blame CNN and Fox and the 24-hour news channels. They have to fill the airwaves with something and it turns out that something is celebrity inanity. Which they extend to politics.
But there is something uniquely American about the shallowness of our culture.
Someone else mentioned the anti-intellectual streak that is also uniquely American; I think that plays into it as well.
I hate mass-produced pop culture. Almost all of it sucks. Popular music is by and large shit. There is a lot of good stuff out there, but it is passed over for the likes if Jay-Z and Kanye, to name but two. And they are not even the worst. Probably better than average (not saying much) but still crap basically.
I am, however, encouraged by the popularity of a lot of television shows that are not reality shows. Many of them are good.
Movies, on the other hand, give me heartburn. Far too many super hero movies (Newsflash: super heroes and comic books are for KIDS, not alleged grownups) and reboots for no reason. But then, Hollywood represents shallow America at its worst.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)Okay, maybe moldy bread but it's a crappy circus.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)It brought politics down to a sound-bite & a laugh.
The Dems could/would not fight a second-rate sound bite.
This was the day we all lost:
https://m.
JI7
(89,247 posts)Arnold Schwarzenegger and jesse Ventura had more to do with what you are saying.
Response to cali (Original post)
tralala This message was self-deleted by its author.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)And they have been for a long time.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I hate arguments like this, because they always presuppose some golden era, halcyon days past where everything was better. No, no. Trump is just the latest in a lumpy, bumpy road of America's constant obsession with wealth and celebrity and our puerile fascination with sex and other peoples' bodies. It's not a new thing.
The only new thing in the mix is a level of information technology that lets this long-standing American culture hit your senses 24/7.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Do we DEMs want to go back to Hubert Humphrey, LBJ, Mayor Daley, etc. etc. etc.
Not me. I'm from the Bronx. No thonx.
tclambert
(11,085 posts)So if you're denigrating Hot Pockets by comparing them to Trump, I think you do sound like a snob.
Personally, I think Donald Trump demonstrates how our very American cult of celebrity has grown out of control.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)they microwave nicely 
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Populist politics and anti-intellectualism have gone together throughout American history from Andrew Jackson onward. It is no accident that William Jennings Bryan was both a champion of the common man against the Banksters and also a Fundamentalist Christian who rejected Evolution.
The RW populism Trump represents is the result of people in Middle America and in parts of the Rust Belt feeling belittled and patronized by educated upper-middle class urban people who see them (or I should say, us, because I am from a rural working class background, myself) as nothing but "dumb rednecks". Cruz attacked "New York values", but ironically it is Trump who is the one sucessfully feeding off people's resentment of "New York values", the educated middle class and the economic elites come to be seen as one thing in people's minds, the "liberal elites".
A big problem with the Democratic Party is that it has an elitist snob problem, or at least the party is seen by many as being dominated by "sophisticated" educated middle class snobs from the big cities.
fred v
(271 posts)All merged into One Big Elite, as I've said here before.
Response to cali (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Way too many know all about the latest "reality" show but are low or no info on current events and historical reference, and often clay in the hands of Faux News and their ilk.
This has led to millions consistently voting against their own personal interest if they even vote, carrying water for billionaires.
