This is democratic underground

[southmost]

not a forum for Trump supporters to bash democratic candidates. ... simply stating a presidential preference for Trump should NOT be tolerated here nor promoted, this forum is being obviously being trolled

[HuckleB]

1. Somebody promoted Trump?

Was it a newbie troll, or someone who has been here a while?

[leftofcool]

5. Every single day. But that ends real soon!

[HuckleB]

12. In GDP, I presume?

My decision to avoid that forum does me good, yet again.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

54. I feel the sameway about avoiding the forum; but they will move over here, after the primary

[HuckleB]

59. Indeed.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

144. & they will stay here, giving code to foreign enemies, until FBI online agents arrest them...

Do you understand "Gotcha" when IT does not apply to Clinton?

[HuckleB]

175. I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Is this some GDP thing?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

186. I'm trying to scare Freepers and Trolls away from DU...

By telling them the truth that online federal agents can link them to Chinese agents, who post code online, I hope to chase frauds and impersonators away. Chinese agents can be tracked and disabled too, if a federal agent has the correct cyber-weapons. Some trolls invite agents to begin investigating them at Democratic Underground.

[HuckleB]

189. Ok, then.

[highprincipleswork]

129. I've never seen one. Please show me. I'm here quite a lot.

[HuckleB]

176. You've never seen General Discussion: Primaries?

[Reter]

135. Link please?

I'm here every day and have never seen a Trump supporter. Wow.

[onehandle]

13. It's been happening for months. nt

[HuckleB]

14. Yikes.

[Silver_Witch]

143. There are no Trump supporters on DU.

You have been asked to provide a link - either provide it or stop posting this silliness. Supporting Bernie is NOT being a Trump supporter - since that is what you are implying.

[forest444]

172. True. But there are a few right-wing infiltrators.

I've run into at least 4 blatant trolls here on DU in the year or so I've been here - people who defend everything from Citizens United, to vulture funds, to Monsatan, and even Hiroshima.

They know who they are.

[Bohemianwriter]

177. Sounds like...

An RNC supporter who loves Wall Street and doubletalk.

One thing is defending Hiroshima, another thing is to defend Libya, Iraq, Syria and miitary coups in Latin America. Or perhaps it's not?

Besides, Hilary enjoys thye benefits of Citizens United, whinjing about Bernie being sexist for caling out her close ties to Wall Street and then runs straight into their arms and wallets.

She is now wooing REPUBLICAN donors, as if Bernie supporters are not welcome in her "large tent" with room for both war criminals, gun nuts, NRA, dirty energy, private prison owners, war profiteers and scam artists, but not social democrats and Bernie supporters.

&list=WL&index=16

Why aren't Hilary even trying to reach out to the people her campaing has vilified since day 1? You think she deserves the vgotesd frojm women with a place in hell and "Berniebros" with her an her supporters' attitude?


There's a reason why she lost to a black guy with a Muslim sounding name in 2008. And she is losing ground to Trump, thinking she has the coronation fixed. What I find bizarre, is how many Obama voters now supports Hillary, suffering from colective amnesia and her racially charged campaign in 2008.

Do you really think that5 Hilary would be tougher on the bankers (that she takes money from) than Bernie?

If she is progressive, or liberal, l would like to see a list of winning progressive causes she has been trailblazing both as a senator and the wife of a president.
Beinhg progressive is not a label of convenience, but what one stand for in real life and politics. Hillary is neither liberal nor progressive. And she uses the same dirty tactics as her republican counterparts.

[forest444]

181. All that, and more.

Some of these people are actually foreign fascists, possibly working for someone (i.e. the U.K. Tories, Colombian narco-politicians, Ukraine's neo-Nazi government, etc.).

They're sharp. They fly under the radar by periodically posting something flattering toward Hillary, such that the administrators usually can't decipher the real nature of their DU membership.

Thank you for all the insights, Bohemianwriter. I guess we take the good with the bad.

[Bohemianwriter]

190. I don't know much about these trolls...

What I do know is that Hillary is no progressive.
But according to besserwissers, she's for African American (until she meets BLM), she's for woman's rights (until after the 20th week of pregnancy, or have women voting against her and for Bernie, she's for LGBT rights (at least after 2013) and for children unless you were an Iraqi kid in the 90s or a back kid in drug infested inner city being policed by a militarized police - culminating in the murder of Tamir Rice.

The thing is, that I as a progressive aligned with FDR, a libertarian social democrat (as per defined by Rosa Luxembourg, Marx, Hegel, Engels and Kropotkin) don't have much positive to say about Hillary without getting my tongue twisted.

I don't trust anyone who is running against a candidate from an opposition party she had taken money from and practical order to attend the third wedding to.

My litmus test is defined by Pete Seeger: Which side are you on?

Bernie Sanders stands with striking workers (scorned by Hillary supporters for doing so), while Hillary is being wined and dined by their corporate owners who refuse to pay them e living wage.
Hillary is a CORPdem who's been using republkican smear tactics against the only uncorrupted candidate since Carter.

Let me know when you encounter these trolls. I will be happy to take them down.

[forest444]

193. That was an inspirational read. Well said, mon ami.

Besides: even looking at Hillary from a purely pragmatic point of view, everyone knows she'd probably be Trumped in November. Her supporters are only kidding themselves.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[southmost]

39. unfortunately yes...

Jury decision. Hide

116. Split

If Hillary is the nominee I am voting for Trump and will split my ticket voting for all others as democrat. Trump will either measure up or be taken away in cuffs. Trump might break the machine which is not a bad thing but one thing for certain Hillary only perpetuates what is wrong in the US.

A Jury voted 5-2 to hide this post on Fri May 13, 2016, 10:48 AM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

[southmost]

43. the split jury was more unsettling

:-/

[jtuck004]

83. Oh, that wasn't the worst part...

“The most monstrous monster is the monster with noble feelings”

― Fyodor Dostoyevsky,

Damn that's useful.

[xocet]

87. Interesting quotation....

Do you happen to know to which of his works it is attributed?

Sometimes, the most poignant and appropriate quotations are fictitious ones.

[Hekate]

90. Google is your personal friend in such a case

[xocet]

101. If you write something, do you respect your reader enough to actually provide...

citations?

Here is an excellent quotation for the remedy that you propose:

"A lazy mind asserts itself through its omissions."

--Albert Einstein, Im allg. Widerspruch der Dankbarkeit, pg. i.

[jtuck004]

94. No.But whether he said it or stole it, it's accurate.n/t

[xocet]

99. That is why it is such a great quotation. It is very accurate. n/t

[xocet]

142. Following is a related quotation: may it also be accurate its context notwithstanding.

"Yes indeed, nature dislikes monstrosities and destroys them with natural solutions."

--Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Eternal Husband, pg. 111.

https://books.google.com/books?id=bfK-tBVM3e4C&pg=PA111#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Duval]

116. Crime and Punishment.

I read it when I was a sophomore in college, waaay back in the late 50's.

[xocet]

141. Here is the quotation in its context in Dostoyevsky's "The Eternal Husband"...

The Eternal Husband
By Fyodor Dostoyevsky

[hr]
(111)
...
(Those horns! those horns he made on his forehead!) He came drunk
on purpose to speak out, though he was playing the fool; if he had not
been drunk, even he could not have done it.... And how he liked
playing the fool, didn't he like it! Ough! wasn't he pleased, too, when
he made me kiss him! Only he didn't know then whether he would
end by embracing me or murdering me. Of course, it's turned out that
the best thing was to do both. A most natural solution! Yes indeed,
nature dislikes monstrosities and destroys them with natural solutions.
The most monstrous monster is the monster with noble feelings; I

[hr]
(112)
know that by personal experience, Pavel Pavlovitch! Nature is not a
tender mother, but a stepmother to the monster. Nature gives birth to
the deformed, but instead of pitying him she punishes him, and with
good reason. Even decent people have to pay for embraces and tears
of forgiveness nowadays, to say nothing of men like you and me, Pavel
Pavlovitch!

...


https://books.google.com/books?id=bfK-tBVM3e4C&pg=PA111#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Land Shark]

156. The Eternal Husband

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/808038-the-most-monstrous-monster-is-the-monster-with-noble-feelings.

[xocet]

182. Thanks. The "natural solution" part of the quotation is also interesting, don't you think? n/t

[Land Shark]

184. Natural solution is interesting but not really accurate

Evolution and/or survival of the fittest does NOT mean survival of the most evolved. Witness sharks who have been around many millions of years but are considered fairly monstrous, versus beautiful and refined species that have gone extinct.

[HuckleB]

46. Ugh.

Clearly, more privileged posters really don't get what the reality would be like for others.

[RiverNoord]

84. I've seen that exact line tossed around so much it's become a parody of itself.

First - I agree that no one who declares that they will vote for Trump belongs on DU.

It's that simple.

However, that bizarre claim has got to go, at least among people who actually represent themselves as doing their own thinking.

I'm nowhere near a 'more privileged' poster. I have a substantially negative 'net worth,' due to student loan debt that I am paying off, as well as I can. However, it'll probably be a couple of decades before I pull it off, and I'm 45.

In addition, I spent 7 years of my life surviving and (as a result of getting very, very lucky) recovering from a severe, debilitating health condition. I survived exclusively, during that time, on SSDI benefits which enabled me to keep a very small room's worth of a roof over my head and not eat so poorly as to become malnourished on top of everything else.

Now I'm lucky enough to have had opportunities to build the fundamentals of a life for myself, and, maybe, before time makes the decision for me, a small family.

And I'll be damned if someone calls me a 'more privileged poster' on DU, after working harder than I ever imagined I could just to survive, then working 60-70 hour weeks for years to establish a hopeful basis of a career, or, at least, a trade, for myself.

I do understand how bad reality can get. I've seen others in the same boat as me not make it. I carry an obligation to honor those who weren't as fortunate as I was to conduct my life in the manner of an honorable, decent human being. THAT's why I back Bernie Sanders and why I won't vote for Hillary Clinton to become the President of the United States.

Of course, I won't vote for Donald-friggin'-Trump. But all of this 'more privileged' crap is bullshit. 'Yeah, you'll be fine in a Trump presidency but, oh, think of the poor Latinos and Muslims...' That's the argument of a racist using the specter of what they consider other peoples' lesser status to manipulate others into doing what they argue is the appropriate thing for a responsible 'white,' 'privileged' person.

If Donald Trump somehow instituted an utterly unconstitutional ban on Muslims traveling to the United States and pushed for a mass deportation (which would be absurd and insane, and you'd have to persuade all of the new cops who would be charged with the task that it's right) of persons whose presence in the United States is, in fact, illegal, then I'll be right there in the trenches as soon as the first raid is conducted. I've always had friends who are ethnic and religious 'minorities,' and if I need to be a 'human shield' to stand in the way of, oh, mosque raids, I'll damn well be there as soon as the scent of raids is in the air. Not that it would be something new - I'm a semi-regular presence at the only mosque in my area (I'm an atheist), and well before Donald Trump took his obscenely rotten act national there were groups of assholes stopping by to show their most sincere disrespects to people whose probable only real differences with the bastards was that they work harder and pray more often.

I don't know what your socioeconomic status or ethnic background is. I don't care about either, as I really don't care for what you have to say, and have no interest in getting to know you.

But, if you were someone targeted by an armed, racist lynch mob, I'd have your back. Maybe because I'm not 'privileged,' maybe that's got nothing to do with it. It certainly has nothing to do with my support of Bernie Sanders and grave concerns about the candidacy of Hillary Clinton, who has helped herself to whole heap of 'privilege' on a routine basis for years and years.

[Beartracks]

123. "Assumed privilege" is wielded around here too often.

While I'd still vote for Hillary (cuz status quo is still better than fascist freefall) if Bernie doesn't get the nom, I must say you make some excellent points.

===============

[RiverNoord]

125. Thanks for the kind words.

I've kind of been boiling over after seeing that line of argument pushed rather aggressively for quite a while. Probably came across as... rather hostile, which wasn't exactly what I meant to be, so I hope the points I tried to make didn't get too muddled as a result.

It's hard not to agree with your reasoning concerning how you'd vote. I just wish I could accept that status quo would be the outcome of a Clinton presidency, but, to me, everything about her campaign signals 'completion of the 'international capital management' acquisition of the United States federal government.'

But I'm certainly open to persuasion that I've got that wrong. I'd really like to be wrong...

[raging moderate]

171. Thank you for this post. And may your dreams come true.

And I certainly will join you in protecting any targets of racist mobs.

[Haveadream]

185. I believe you are sincere

but in the event that such a ban were legally instituted, I'm not sure how any of us would be able to safeguard the targets, no matter how fervently we would wish to. When FDR imprisoned hundreds of thousands of Japanese Americans for half a decade due to the "security risk" they posed, no amount of caring set them free or stopped them from being rounded up. The same holds true for all the racist "lynch mobs" of the past. None of us can be everywhere we would need to be. Nor do regular citizens have the power and tools to prevent a legally enacted systemic abuse of power in the absence of an armed revolt.

[RiverNoord]

199. I agree with you to an extent.

But just because such things have happened in the past, and people have generally let them happen, doesn't mean it always has to be so.

There are around 250 million American adult citizens. If enough of us decide that overt racism (which is really what anti-Islam is) is absolutely unacceptable and intolerable to the point where we are prepared to take real personal risk to stop it, it can be stopped.

Read this:

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/12/01/louisville-civil-rights

Lewis Lubka, cited in the article, and still living in Fargo, ND, was a good friend of mine for many years. They didn't win that one, but it set the stage in Kentucky for major change.

If they could do that in the 1950s, we can do a lot better now.

[Gman]

138. Well how bout that

A jury hid a HRC bashing post. Everybody must have been asleep.

[Zorra]

153. Third Way has driven the Dem party so far to the right that this comes as no

surprise at all.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

42. some trolls have thousands of posts bashing Obama, Clinton and Sanders

The paid trolls mostly work in Democratic Primaries. They are usually more cleaver than Freepers, who do the same thing for "free."

[Hortensis]

158. The astonishing, furious chaos that has become DU

seems extremely likely to be the result of outside agitators stirring a boiling pot. Some have been easy to identify, but no doubt there are others. People keep saying they've never seen it so bad.

[FreakinDJ]

2. Underground - meaning Anti-Establishment

[yallerdawg]

15. A great number of states are controlled by Republican...

governors, legislatures, courts, and county and municipal officials.

All Republican.

"Democratic Underground" should be a place for ALL Democrats to gather and not be brow-beaten or condemned for supporting any Democrat in opposition to the "establishment" we live under.

Maybe you can afford failing at 'perfection'?

We'll be ecstatic with plain, old 'good' - and it may be the only 'good' we get!

[FreakinDJ]

17. Blame Democrats with Strong Wall St Establishment Ties

Every time we run a Democrat who caters to Wall St's Mega Donors the Working Class pushes back and refuses to show up at the next election

1994
2010
2014

[LonePirate]

55. How do you explain 2006 when we regained control of both houses in Congress?

Or 1998 when we gained seats in both the House and Senate?

[Zen Democrat]

81. 1998 was a Clinton impeachment backlash; 2006 was a Bush War backlash.

[LonePirate]

89. So what other sorts of backlashes outweigh the alleged Wall St. ties?

I honestly don't know a single voter who stayed home during an off year election because of alleged Wall St. ties by the Dem nominee in the previous presidential election. Then again, that doesn't fit the completely unsubstantiated theory you're peddling.

[pnwmom]

34. When this site was established Bush had recently been installed by the Supreme Court.

Not by the voters.

So every Democrat was against that establishment.

[juxtaposed]

98. No, at times having ones head buried in the sand as in underground.. Like many hrc supporters!

It's a joke, embrace humor.

[LiberalElite]

134. It's never seemed all that

anti-establishment to me. Seems to me that lately it's Establishment Central.

[BillZBubb]

3. Who "stated a preference" for trump?

Or did you just infer they preferred trump?

[Shadowflash]

11. You know--

''an attack on Clinton, is support for Trump''.

Even though we are in a DEMOCRATIC primary campaign. Apparently only one side is allowed to fight it.

For people who's Candidate is 'Strong', 'inevitable' and 'will defeat Trump', They sure are a whiny, insecure bunch.

[arikara]

19. That's it in a nutshell

Their latest attack is to infer that Bernie supporters are also supporting trump.

[Kingofalldems]

26. There are some who are not actually Bernie supporters--just claim to be.

[zeemike]

60. And likewise, some Clinton supporters

Are not actually Clinton supporters but just claim to be. And this makes sense because if you are a Republican you would love to determine who the Dems nominate...and Clinton is the weakest candidate.
And those same GOP shills that are Bernie supporters would do the opposite for him...like do things to discredit him or his supporters.

Contrary to belief a shill can be for or against a particular candidate...the objective is to manipulate.

[tkmorris]

71. A claim made with no evidence

This belongs in the same category as "Some people say..." statements. It's a smear, nothing more, nothing less.

[Autumn]

91. There are also some who are not actually Hillary supporters--just claim to be.

[Hiraeth]

33. That one has been granted permanent immunity status and as such, can do no wrong.

[silvershadow]

76. ^^This. It's a meme, advanced by one side, and of course probably

by the Brock trolls that are in our midst.

[southmost]

20. no inferring...they're being bold and stating it plainly

and about 3 jurors defended it

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. Here's an example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=154274

or here you are, saying Hillary and Trump are just as bad as each other: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7818882

[BillZBubb]

32. That's total bullshit. The first post is factual. On one issue that's the situation.

And saying both are just as bad isn't a preference for either. Maybe in Hillaryland, but not in the real world.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. The first was a lie, designed to make Trump look better than Hillary

I dissected it in the sub-thread.

If you want to be known as the DUer who thinks Trump is just as good as Hillary, I'm very happy to let everyone know. It shows your judgement is abysmal. It's also an opinion that has no place on DU.

[Doctor_J]

108. In neither of those posts does the poster say he'll vote for trump in the ge

Try again or drop it

[muriel_volestrangler]

109. The first one was an attempt to make Trump look better than Hillary

by lying. It's outrageous, and it was promoting Trump. The 2nd is the person I was replying to, claiming Trump is no worse than Hillary. That's bullshit, and it has no place on any discussion forum, let alone a Democratic one. And, frankly, neither does your defence of it. You should be ashamed.

[AgadorSparticus]

174. 👍👍👍👍👍

[demmiblue]

4. ...said no one ever. But, I agree, it is being trolled.

[rurallib]

6. lots of newbie posters posting straw man OPs

[demmiblue]

7. Yep. n/t

[Jeffersons Ghost]

52. Lots of "newby posters" are being chased away by trolls

Chasing away posters with obvious Democratic objectives is a primary function of trolls and Freepers.

[yuiyoshida]

70. YUP!

noticed that. DU's population has swelled lately with so many new people, who will probably leave suddenly after the elections are over.. poof!

[baldguy]

69. Except 40% of Sanders voters in WV.

[MH1]

96. I've been on juries for posts where it's been said.

So it does happen. Usually if those juries are for newbie posters, they are "name removed" very soon.

But more established posters like to skirt the lines by doing things like implying, or even saying outright, that one of our candidates is "as bad as" or even "worse then" Trump. I'll be glad when that nonsense stops.

[corkhead]

8. strawman much?

[IdaBriggs]

9. Please provide a link. nt

[nilram]

31. +1

[southmost]

51. link is posted

.

[Kittycat]

58. One link is posted. One.

There's a common claim that any and all Sanders supporters that don't bow down and sign a loyalty oath to Clinton, and disavow any disagreements they have with her positions or past/present, must be a drumpf supporter.

[southmost]

64. actually stated they'd rather vote for trump over clinton

and two other jurors were ok with it.....that's unsettling

[Kittycat]

112. And that means everyone? How?

I have no intention of voting for Trump, ever. But likewise, I have no intention of voting for a candidate under FBI investigation who has never attempted party unity or earning my vote. Who is out fundraising and appealing to republicans. I will support my down ballot fiercely, but my vote is earned, not given away. I don't support ThirdWay or former DLC candidates that haven't embraced the democratic base. Nor do I support Kim Davis like republiDems.

[IdaBriggs]

62. I can't see it (maybe because it's a sub thread and I have a lot of

Hillary supporters on hide?). I saw where you quoted one person, but frankly it looks like your OP is spin and bullshit. Both Hillary and Trump are horrible candidates with baggage and unprecedented legal problems; a large percentage of the country actively dislikes one or both (I'm a member of that majority) and doesn't want them anywhere near the Oval Office and that is before one brings their spouses into the discussion.

If you aren't happy with the way the admins run DU, perhaps you would be happier elsewhere. Right now primary season is in force, and people are allowed to discuss the MANY reasons they hate Hillary as a candidate. I realize this can be unpleasant for those who don't like to hear it, but hating Hillary doesn't make one a Trump supporter except in the minds of the deluded.

[southmost]

65. posts stating they'd rather vote republican are not ok

period...maybe they should go

[Texasgal]

10. Link?

I'd like to see what you are talking about. Thanks

[Iggo]

16. Meta!

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

18. Saying that if you pick a fight with someone stronger....

...you're going to get your ass kicked....

Is not supporting the guy doing the ass kicking.

It's just good advice.

Trump/Clinton as opposed to Trump/Sanders - Sanders has been doing better.

http://www.thestate.com/news/databases/article77396342.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

[Democat]

22. Starting threads saying that Trump is going to win if you don't get your way should be bannable

There are plenty of people here are DU who prefer Trump to a Democrat.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

27. Is 'Never Clinton' the same as supporting Trump?

If so, I disagree with that premise.

[billhicks76]

44. Total BS

People are observing the general electorate. Are you too clouded to see a difference. No one is threatening to vote for Trump. They are merely pointing out realities of the world around us. Most people who vote in a general are non partisan. They aren't political hacks or wonks or whatever. Predicting their move is the smart thing to do. You are confused.

[Gore1FL]

86. I read that from Clinton Supporters a few months ago.

I guess it was fashionable then.

[Javaman]

92. that doesn't sound like they are supporting trump...

it just sounds as if you don't like that they aren't supporting your candidate.

in some circles that's called sour grapes.

and sour grapes or not, it's still allowable.

there are two Democratic candidates, preferring one over the other because a person believe that they have a better chance at beating trump is not, as you would like to think, supporting trump.

this entire thread is filled with this type of colossally failed logic.

[billhicks76]

49. Exactly...Some People Here Are Confused

So I think we create more terrorists when we bomb civilians in the Middle East. Does that mean I support terrorists??? That circular logic some expose here is precisely how Republicans think. And they see we support Trump? Who is really trolling? Totally non-sensical and myopic.

[Gene Debs]

21. Shall we assume that by "Trump supporters," you mean Sanders supporters?

[Democat]

23. Anyone who prefers Trump to either Democratic candidates is a Trump supporter

And should be banned.

[southmost]

35. agreed

agreed...I'm referring to direct statements of preference or support for Trump

[billhicks76]

38. It's Hillary In The Photos With Trump

Just like her best friends the Bushes.

[Scootaloo]

24. Could you take this back to GDP, please?

Thaaaaanks

[Amimnoch]

56. Really.

This is supposed to be the forum to get away from this stuff for a bit.

[onecaliberal]

25. There are NO fucking trump supporters here, get a grip ffs.

[Capt. Obvious]

47. One person't Reuters article is another's Trump supporter

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910296

[southmost]

53. theyre at least 3

Jury decision. Hide

116. Split

If Hillary is the nominee I am voting for Trump and will split my ticket voting for all others as democrat. Trump will either measure up or be taken away in cuffs. Trump might break the machine which is not a bad thing but one thing for certain Hillary only perpetuates what is wrong in the US.

A Jury voted 5-2 to hide this post on Fri May 13, 2016, 10:48 AM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

[ScreamingMeemie]

88. You are not posting actual links. you are posting commentary.

As a member of MIRT, I would like to see if those are some of the several trolls we have been nuking daily.

Do you have actual links? Or just copy/pastes of commentary?

Thank you.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

170. Haven't you been here long enough to know that posting links and

To specific member comments gets posts deleted ?

[ScreamingMeemie]

183. The whole thread is actually meta if we're going to get rules-y about it.

[Mnpaul]

194. Here is one encouraging Bernie Supporters to vote for Trump

It was also very sexist. The jury voted 3-4 to leave

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1962881

[La Lioness Priyanka]

169. There are atleast 3 ppl who have stated they would vote for trump

Over Clinton. So yes, there are.

Du is becoming much like an open primary

[closeupready]

28. Well this didn't go as planned, huh?

[snort]

36. LOL

[jalan48]

30. I have not seen one post promoting Trump on here.

[StarzGuy]

40. Perhaps there are a few low information voters?

I always seem to hear that Clinton is_______(you fill in the blank). Yet, I never seem to see the evidence for that conclusion.

[Shrike47]

41. MIRT nukes those posters ASAP if they're newbies, but they are definitely out there. Trolls.

[Fast Walker 52]

48. I haven't seen anyone promoting Trump but I have some

indicating that Trump isn't worse than Hillary.

Heck, I may have even written that myself, at some point... It's been a crazy election year.

[Rex]

68. This thread is all hat and no cattle.

I guess some don't get enough attention in GD-P and have to drag their problems into GD.

[billhicks76]

37. Underground...Don't Forget It

I've never seen a trump supporter. Just lots of Clintonites crying about any criticism of their anointed one. As you can tell most people here are sick of it. You don't own the Demicratic Party. Hillary has 100 people show up at events. Bernie has lines over a mile long. Wake up. Change happens from the bottom up. Everyone is tired of the Bush/Clinton alliance. It's been a total sham and we know it.

[yallerdawg]

57. Plus 3,000,000 votes. Leading Trump and Sanders.

We stand in line where it counts!

[billhicks76]

113. Stupid Analogy

Sanders wouldve taken all those votes back if caucus states voted as a popular vote. So your analysis is faulty and applauding yourself is egotistical...but very Clintonian.

[JohnnyRingo]

111. "Democratic" Don't forget that

It's not Independent Underground or None Of The Above Underground as some have stated a preference to. Too may have actively campaigned against Hillary Clinton to the point that they insist on voting for the Green party or writing in an independent candidate not on the Democratic ballot. Many haven't a good word for Sanders either, they're just here to convince people to abstain.

I imagine you're one of those who will vote for Clinton if she's the eventual nominee though, so good for you.

[billhicks76]

114. Maybe You Shouldn't Forget It

Clintonites pushed the center so far to the Right you could call them almost Republican in nature by now as compared to 20 years ago's Democrats. Ive been voting Democrat since I was 18 well over 40 years ago....so yes you are imagining things. Your icon has the Statue Of Liberty...maybe reming yourself how many o those liberties have been lost at the hands of the 30 year Bush/Clinton Alliance.

[JohnnyRingo]

133. I voted the 1st time in 1972 for McGovern

I believe in many ways the party has moved to the left since then.

Advances in racial relations, gender identity, and drug decriminalization for the Democratic Party have been stark since the '70s. We've introduced the 1st AA senator and president, brought gays out of the closet, and politicians admitting they smoked pot is no longer met with cries of "soft on drugs". A politician no longer has to say he "didn't inhale".

Your personal bias against Clinton may have you seeing her as some far right icon, but that view isn't shared by the great majority. 30 years ago Bill Clinton and his wife were indeed considered quite liberal, but you now see that as a benchmark of old school conservatism. Most people think the mother of Hillarycare is still a liberal, perhaps too liberal to be elected. Like George McGovern.

Maybe you're the one who has steadily moved further to the left giving you the false impression that the rest of the country is shifting right.

[billhicks76]

136. The Country Moved To The Left As A Whole

It's called progress and its subtle. Were the 1840's right wing? There are historical contexts...slavery and oppression of women existed. But the pendulum swing between liberal and conservative is hard to quantify based on that. My experience is that the country was liberal in the 70s and conservative in the 80s. Liberal in the 90s and conservative after 911 but also changing demographically to the point where it really is mostly liberal in a permanent way. This is why we see the corporation/government nexus arming itself heavily against the public and turning the screws on us militarily, economically and socially. The Clintons may have been liberal in the 70s and 80s but they decided to play ball and align themselves with the Bush Family Crime Syndicate early on as far back as 1982 in my opinion. The rest has been for show. They definitely moved the center of the political spectrum of the Democratic Party further to the right which forced those on the right who wish to differentiate themselves culturally and religiously to move even further to the right into whackadoodleland. Is this an unintended consequence? I doubt it but who knows...maybe they just are greedy and self-aggrandizing and didnt know the effects on the country as a whole. Either way it sucks and Im ashamed to even be associated with the Clintons...I am a lifelong Democrat who has campaigned for countless Congressmen and Senators...the Clintons make my skin crawl though.

[JohnnyRingo]

139. You make some good points

Well stated too, and I agree that the country suffered a national case of temporary insanity after 9/11 and a sudden shift to the right. I believe we've generally swung steadily back toward the social center since then. (see:Obama)

I only take exception at your closing. The '90s, when the Clintons were in the White House, were the best of my 62. I enthusiastically campaigned for and twice voted for Bill and would do it again. The closest I'll come will be this fall.

Regardless, I'd like to remind that we're both on the same team.

[billhicks76]

140. I Voted For Bill Also

And regretted it as he locked up many of my friends for Cannabis infractions.

[JohnnyRingo]

148. Maybe that was a state issue

Here in Ohio it was the dawn of decriminalization. It was about the time 100 grams became a minor misdemeanor subject to the equivalent of a traffic ticket and $100 fine. I don't credit the Clintons for that though.

True that it was also the beginning of 3 strikes, but that was for felons.

[billhicks76]

187. Federal

He ramped up marijuana prosecutions. Yes people knew they were breaking the law...an unjust law. People spent years in prison for growing a harmless, healing plant. Bill continued with his good pal George Bush Sr's policies and even increased the rate of incarceration. I personally thing Bill and George should be put on trial for it.

[AntiBank]

155. all that is window dressing compared to the corporatist

and bank empowering tilt the Democratic Party was underwent since Clinton in 1992. At the foundational bedrock of big war, big banks, and big business, a large, oh too large amount elected at Federal level are shills for the systemic power structure. Sanders, whilst not perfect, is indeed pushback against this heinous drift and rightward tack. Clinton most assuredly is not. PS Fuck Trump

[redstateblues]

131. Bernie's crowds are not voting apparently. Hillary has 3 million more votes than he does.

The sham is the one promising things he knows he can't deliver.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. I saw someone received a hide on another thread

For stating they will vote Trump.

It's not a 'new' invasion - they had 348 posts (when I checked) and joined in 2008.


The juries are doing their job. If not - send to MIRT and if too long a member or more than 100 posts - send to Admin.

[Renew Deal]

61. Today some clown blamed the 2003 Iraq war on Clinton/Gore

[MisterP]

63. right: people demanding that the stronger candidate against Trump drop out so that

the feeble corporocrat (who's already attracting headlines about how she might lose) can lose bigtime should NOT be tolerated

[SunSeeker]

66. K & R

[Rex]

67. I see links to people NOT saying they support Trump...so...

A good size thread without links to people saying they support Trump, about people saying they support Trump is garbage without proof. GD-P level of attention?

If you are letting low post count posters get to you, go outside and get some air. Nobody here supports Trump...proof or this really looks bad.

[southmost]

72. the link has a poster stating they'd rather vote for Trump

plus 2 jurors voting to leave that statement unchallenged (that was more upsetting)

[muriel_volestrangler]

102. Here was a member from 2005, 582 posts; Skinner banned them as a 'Trump humper'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016154269#post6

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=166077&sub=trans

(they said "Trump is far better than Hillary"; the ban was a few days later, but I can't find any posts they made after that, apart from a question in 'Ask the Administrators' that was never answered). I can't take the credit for alerting on them.

Notice the article that started that thread, and it got 2 recs.

[lark]

73. +1

K&R

[IronLionZion]

74. What we need here are more Gaddafi supporters

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7826490



Libyans can't handle paradise the way Trump's trolls can.

[PufPuf23]

121. I made that OP and do not nor have ever been a Gadaffi supporter as

stated repeatedly in the thread and ignored by those that did not like the post.

The OP title was not written by me but was the title of one of the articles posted.

Yes, the post was meant to get attention.

But not to glorify Gadaffi, rather to point out the wrongness of covertly destabilizing nations then bombing them to bits and walking away.

The post was against international neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism and the use of the shock doctrine for questionable motives.

The post was not about Hillary Clinton (nor Trump for that matter).

Many good Democrats that are frequent and long term posters at DU joined the thread and added a wealth of quality substantiation.

If one cannot be a liberal anti-war Democrat at long standing without being called a Gaddafi lover or right wing, some at DU have gone way off the rails.

From the Department of State's website:

Speaking of the breadth of Gaddafi’s record, that ought to resist simplistic, revisionist reduction, some might care to note that even now, the U.S. State Department’s webpage on Libya still points to a Library of Congress Country Study on Libya that features some of the Gaddafi government’s many social welfare achievements over the years in the areas of medical care, public housing, and education. In addition, Libyans have the highest literacy rate in Africa (see UNDP, p. 171) and Libya is the only continental African nation to rank “high” in the UNDP’s Human Development Index. Even the BBC recognized these achievements:

“Women in Libya are free to work and to dress as they like, subject to family constraints. Life expectancy is in the seventies. And per capita income—while not as high as could be expected given Libya’s oil wealth and relatively small population of 6.5m—is estimated at $12,000 (£9,000), according to the World Bank. Illiteracy has been almost wiped out, as has homelessness—a chronic problem in the pre-Gaddafi era, where corrugated iron shacks dotted many urban centers around the country”.

[chknltl]

75. I'll promote Trump:

By the powers self vested in me I heareby declare that D. Trump is no longer a loon, from this day forward he is now ranked an advanced loon. There, all promoted.

[HubertHeaver]

97. May he reach perfection and be awarded

Full Lunacy.

[chknltl]

104. D. Trump has highest ranking in...

...the D.Trump fan club so I was unable to promote him further there.

[HubertHeaver]

106. So he has hit the ceiling?

Is it glass? Can we try to push him through it anyway?

[liberal N proud]

77. Hear! Hear!

[skylucy]

78. I agree that post should have been hidden and it should have been unanimous. It is very simple.

You can say you support Hillary or you can say you support Bernie. If you say if Hillary isn't the nominee then you are voting for Trump then you are no Democrat and are a troll. Out you go, ***hole. If you say if Bernie isn't the nominee then you are voting for Trump then you are no Democrat and are a troll. Out you go, ***hole.

[southmost]

80. my thoughts exactly...

its discourging that this sentiment isnt unanimous on a Democratic forum

[skylucy]

103. Thank you. When I saw that someone had replied to my post, I was afraid I

was going to get savaged! General Discussion can be brutal, so I rarely post here. Heres to Democrats keeping the White House and retaking the Senate and the House in 2016!

[southmost]

107. same here...i usually refrain from posting

because of those attacks but sometimes our voices need to be heard

[PatrynXX]

79. although define the word underground :(

not only that it doesn't say Democrats Underground. ie free speech will not be tolerate. Now that being said if someone cheats, I'll be writing someone from the left in.

[nolabels]

85. This is where were a lot of free minded people come to lend thoughts to others, or at least vent

Been here since * stole the election. Since then, it has grown because of the simple fact many in establishment positions like to crush people who don't agree to go quietly.

Question all and everything, it's the only way to get to point B from point A

[Autumn]

82. if you see someone supporting Trump you need to alert on that. I have seen no one

not one person here supporting Trump. Oh I'm pretty sure you are right, this forum is being trolled.

[Duppers]

93. There are damn Trump supporters posting garbage here?

Wow!

[highprincipleswork]

95. Yes it is, and I'll hold my Democratic values up against those supported by the Clintons throughout

time any day.

The Democratic Party has had a lot more success with truly Progressive policies and politicians than the Clintons or their supporters can ever imagine.

I would bet that a lot of you don't even know what politics is like except in the fetid backwash of Ronald Reagan. Clinton style triangulating was born as a palliative to Ronald Reagan's success. It hasn't worked!!!! We haven't done that well politically with it since then, and a large part of the American public has had enough of that bullshit that isn't really helping us out. Haven't you noticed?

We who support Bernie are largely just as "Democratic" as you who support Hillary. Perhaps our traditions in thought and policy go back even further, at least to the times of FDR, who was wildly successful and popular.

This is a year to win by moving beyond triangulation back to a purer form of Democratic Party. That's the way to win, not going back to tired old, boring, depressing triangulation with the Republicans. I'm telling you, that's the surefire way to lose.

[davidn3600]

100. No one is promoting Trump

Some just aren't supporting Hillary. That doesn't equal support for Trump.

[Odin2005]

105. Who the fuck is supporting Trump?

Or is this just another attempt to slander us Sander's supporters?

[Doctor_J]

110. No one

But let the poutrage begin anyway

[timmymoff]

115. Haven't seen anyone support Trump

but I have seen people equating not liking Hillary as supporting Trump. Big difference.

[pampango]

117. Sometimes bashing one Democrat or another sounds "Trumpish" but that is usually not the case. n/t

[markpkessinger]

118. I haven't seen anyone here promoting Trump or expressing a preference for him . . .

If I'm wrong about that, then surely you can provide links to where such statements were made. Failing that, your entire post is based on the premise that being critical of one particular Democratic nominee equates to "promoting Trump." Look, if Hillary is the nominee, and if she winds up losing to Trump, that will be on Hillary and her campaign strategists alone

[Warren DeMontague]

119. Are the primaries over?

No, they're not.

So stop trying to conflate debate within the Democratic party between supporters of differenent candidates for the Democratic nomination, with support for the Republican.

[Zynx]

120. Anyone who demonstrates anything other than raging contempt for Trump is not welcome.

Trump is the antithesis of everything we stand for.

[PDittie]

122. Here you go, everyone

Split
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1448930

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

this is democratic underground! not a site for promoting the election of republicans

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri May 13, 2016, 10:48 AM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerted comment simply states his or her presidential preference, and is not advocating for the election of Trump.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Alas, poor MJJP21, I hardly knew ye
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[Magoo48]

124. The way I see DU today is that there is a progressive faction which is liberal, and there is a

Republican-lite faction which is not liberal. And, they are as different, each from the other, as the candidates they now support. Perhaps, it's time for them to go their separate ways. I belong to the liberal progressive group, and I'll admit that much of what I read here of late is quite foreign to me. I'm mostly a lurker and have been for a number of years, so I recognize that as a non participant, I reside at the margin. There's my two cents for what it's worth.....

[billhicks76]

126. Often Feels Like The Clinton/Bush Alliance

[muriel_volestrangler]

127. Skinner: "there are lots of people here (and not just newbies) that are puffing up Donald Trump"

there are lots of people here (and not just newbies) that are puffing up Donald Trump. I think the theory is that if they make him out to be an attractive candidate with lots of great ideas to offer, then Democratic primary voters will abandon their first choice and go with their second choice instead. Because reasons.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910296#post1

[southmost]

151. seems to be getting our of hand

[wildeyed]

128. I vote to hide posts that puff Trump

or bash Democratic candidates. But judging from results of the juries I serve on, I am in the minority.

[southmost]

149. that's what been getting my goat

that and jurors voting to leave posts in which people are stating they will vote for Trump.... this has been the worst election cycle ... i usually dont get involved, this time I just reacted straight from the gut

[Soxfan58]

130. I'm tired

I am Trumped out. 24-7 coverage (even on MSNBC) my wife says she's worried because I get so angry when he speaks But I say everyone should be mad. The Republican party has shown themselves as a Racist party.

[southmost]

150. I feel this election has so much at stake

and many of us will suffer dire consequences if the republican crime party wins

[rhett o rick]

132. Boy you got that statement correct, " this forum is being obviously being trolled"

And you lecturing us about DU with less than 1,000 posts. Bob-Bye

[southmost]

146. i've been a lurker of this forum since the days of its inception/joined during a fund raiser drive

however, rude people like you discourage participation.... and your flippant attitude hasn't changed much

[stonecutter357]

167. +1000

[rhett o rick]

188. Again, nothing substantive. Not surprised

Bob-Bye

[On the Road]

137. It's Worth Noting

that Hunter Thompson said that if Hubert Humphrey were nominated in 1972, he would vote for Rich Nixon. Probably the most shocking thing he ever wrote.

[U4ikLefty]

145. Wait...this is Democratic Undergroud?!?

https://m.

[southmost]

147. I know right?!?

around election cycles it's been harder to tell and gets worse every time

[Lunabell]

152. I'm not a Bernie or Bust person and would NEVER vote rethuglican.

I'm just waiting to see what happens at the convention. I hope Bernie can bring the party back to the people.

[iamthebandfanman]

154. ew

is that really going on ?
i honestly don't mind if someone says they are going to vote third party tho.. that's their right after all...
but surely not VOTING for trump .. ack !

[qdouble]

157. A lot of "Bernie Supporters" simply aren't Democrats to begin with...

not all are trump supporters...some are Green Party/Socialists/Communists... but a good percentage of them are either right wing trolls or populists. Populism exists beyond right/left politics.

[Skittles]

160. I do not believe that at all

that is incorrect

[qdouble]

161. you don't have to believe it, but it's very evident....

by the amount of "Bernie supporters" here who support Trump or support third parties or hate virtualy all elected democrats except Bernie

[Skittles]

162. I guess I have not seen that many

I just see very passionate people who are sick of Democrats acting like repukes, not people who are rooting for a carnival barker like Trump

[qdouble]

163. Bernie or bust is not about spiting democrats...

it's about saying, give me what I want or give me the polar opposite of I want. It's a suicide pact that hopes for some salvation to come afterwards. Beyond that, the belief that any democrat that is even 5% less liberal as you is somehow equivalent to a republican is the height of immaturity and irrationality.

[Skittles]

164. you're referring specifically to the Hillary Haters

yes, those folk who say they will not vote for her may as well be supporting Trump, but in all fairness I know they think he is a carnival barker

[qdouble]

166. as I said before, there are multiple categories of "Bernie Supporters"

as I don't think that all Bernie supporters are actually Bernie Supporters, I put the quotation marks... but I'm sure he has a good deal of support for who he is as a candidate. However, I think a percentage of his support is either anti-establishment, anti-democrat or pro-Trump... but I don't want to characterize the whole movement as being such.

[Rhiannon12866]

192. I support Bernie and I've voted for the Democrat as far back as Jimmy Carter

Most everyone I know who follows politics at all supports Bernie - and I know no one who can stand Trump, not even Republicans.

[Skittles]

159. Trump Supporters or Hillary Haters?

sometimes I cannot tell the difference

[StayFrosty]

165. Seems like those who support Trump

Seems like those trolls that openly express their support for Trump on here get less flak than people who support Hillary.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

168. I can't wait till this primary ends and some of these non dems get booted

[Perogie]

173. I wouldn't support Trump

but I'd support FREEDOM OF SPEECH. So I don't care if someone supports Trump and posts here. Let them make their case and and then I can make my case. Freedom of ideas is way more important to me.

[TrueDemVA]

178. I agree

Last edited Sat May 14, 2016, 12:35 PM - Edit history (1)

This is Democratic Underground.

We should not have to see people here support a racist bigot or moderate republicans running for office. It is shameful. I can't stand it when I see people justify those decisions that have hurt so many.

Building walls, deporting people (especially children fleeing dangerous countries), supporting wars and regime change, free trade deals, been on record as being opposed to LGBT rights, fracking, supporting private prisons, against single payer insurance.

How anyone on this site could ever support these republicans and justify these heinous choices is beyond me.

[bkkyosemite]

179. Bull shit!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

180. How many posts have you seen that advocate voting for Trump?

The only one I've seen is posted in this thread as an example.

[Mnpaul]

195. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1962881

and I'm guessing that it was Hillary supporters that voted to leave it 3-4. The have no right to complain

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

196. Agreed.

[muriel_volestrangler]

197. Here was an article advocating voting for Trump that was posted

("A Trump win may actually stimulate progressive change&quot apparently with approval: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016156307

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

198. The Love it or Leave It wing of the party is very active this season.

[joshcryer]

191. Every time someone posts "transcripts"...

...in response to Trumps tax returns, they're helping Trump in some small way.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

200. They should immediately be smashed with the ban hammer. Hard. nt

[silvershadow]

201. Must be being trolled. We Sanders supporters are accused

daily of promoting Trump, yet I haven't seen a single post like that. I have seen a huge uptick in Trump posts, though. I just hide every one. It is beyond ridiculous to talk about him while the primary churns on...except in the context of who is better suited to beat him.

[dchill]

202. This is autocratic underground.

Fixed your typo.

[PATRICK]

203. On Trump btw,

I am a reader on occasion of The Daily Howler which concentrates on our beloved media and especially its political performance. There is a real trend by BOTH voters and especially the media(who DO or CAN know better) to start gifting Trump with false positives. Against the war, for the minimum wage- both false. The fact he is not controlled by the establishment... meaning what? He is the worst tripe that will be on the ballot as a potential POTUS.

What a load of crap. That is not a choice, just a humiliation, or spiteful denial of reality. However the facts are a lot of voters are being assisted by this irrational spell with a ready media echo chamber of their most misguided fantasies, even hopes, but at least rages.

I just want to see the party of Jefferson and FDR get their act together which they have been spending several months in an unexpected contest of denial of their mission when all they wanted was some stupid uncontested anointing by idiotic, often destructive wealthy donors.