Most mass shooters aren’t mentally ill. So why push better treatment as the answer?

[KamaAina]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/most-mass-shooters-arent-mentally-ill-so-why-push-better-treatment-as-the-answer/2016/05/17/70034918-1308-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html

When it comes to mass shootings, President Obama and House Speaker Paul D. Ryan are in rare accord on a leading culprit.

Both point fingers at mental illness. And in poll after poll, most Americans agree.

But criminologists and forensic psychiatrists say there is a critical flaw in that view: It doesn’t reflect reality.

While acknowledging that some of the country’s worst mass shooters were psychotic — the Colorado theater gunman, James Holmes, with his orange-dyed hair; the Virginia Tech shooter, Seung Hui Cho, whom a judge ordered to get treatment — experts say the vast majority of such killers did not have any classic form of serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia or psychosis.

[enlightenment]

1. Because

they are unwilling to point their fingers at the 2nd Amendment.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

2. It is a sickness the amount of guns we have.

[hlthe2b]

3. Exactly.. the mental illness lies in our obsession with guns

[malaise]

5. Precisely

You win the thread

[MH1]

9. Bingo.

[Gomez163]

4. Because god forbid you take his gun off him.

[HooptieWagon]

6. A fair number are.

Just because they're judged competent to stand trial doesn't mean they're mentally healthy.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

7. Without meaning to argue

With those who are experts, would not killing people for no reason indicate something is not right?

[jwirr]

10. What you are saying is that everyone who kills someone

without some reason is mentally ill. Do you have any idea how many people that would include over history?

[joeybee12]

11. No, shooting in the heat of the moment only means losing your temper...nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

32. How many of the spree killers were acting on impulse versus those who planned?

[gollygee]

23. It is an indication of anger. People become violent because they are angry. N/t

[Hortensis]

8. Treatment requires professional evaluation.

Whether it leads to treatment or prosecution, or both, both justice and effective policies require starting with professional evaluation. And that's the first issue, not whether treatment.

[abelenkpe]

12. Anything to avoid gun regulations. Nt

[beevul]

25. MORE gun regulations, you mean.

Its not like theres a shortage.

[davidn3600]

13. It depends on how you define "mentally ill"

As in "insane" and "psychotic"...it is true that few of them are.

But most of them suffer from depression and dissociative disorders.

[sarisataka]

14. Maybe a person

With more knowledge of mental illness can help correct my confusion, but is not sociopathy a form of mental illness?

And what then are we to do about sociopaths? If one is to turn homicidal, keeping a gun from their hands will limit the damage however it is likely one or more people may still die. Is this something we should just accept?

[Buttons3345]

20. Sociopathy is a form of mental illness but...

mental illness is a very delicate/difficult issue.

Not everyone with mental illness kill.

[fizzgig]

22. it's not "not everyone"

it's a vast majority

[gollygee]

24. Most people who kill do so because they care too much, not because they don't care at all.

Most killers aren't sociopaths. Sociopaths can kill without feeling guilty about it, but that doesn't mean they do most of the killing in this country.

[TrappedInUtah]

15. Maybe they had undiagnosed mental problems

There are plenty of mental issues which aren't easily classified into a particular group. I have a hard time imagining anybody of a sane mind shooting up a school or movie theater.

[StarTrombone]

16. IDK, there seems to be a common denominator

It's the damned dead eyes

[Igel]

17. Yup. They all have eyes.

A guy was arrested yesterday for stabbing an 11-year-old in Houston.

People looked at the picture and said he obviously looked mentally ill. We needed better mental health.

Nobody really said, "Well, perhaps he's innocent."

He was released today because he was in Pearland--not Houston--when the attack happened. So that black guy, judged mentally ill because some needed to defend him (instead of asking for evidence of guilt), apparently wasn't mentally ill. Or at least not in a way that he was evaluated and forcibly incarcerated. But we won't hear about that guy any more because nothing horrible happened to him.

[mythology]

19. It's kind of like Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Schaivo from a video

It can't be done with any degree of accuracy.

[Yo_Mama]

18. But most of them ARE mentally ill - depression, etc.

If you look at their histories, it seems like most of them have clear flags. Because they often don't survive, accurate diagnosis is difficult.

Not all mass murderers are, of course. I don't know about McVeigh, for example. He seemed relatively sane. The sniper guy may have been sane, but certainly was mentally off. His weird plan alone shows it. For years before the killing spree his ability to function was deteriorating, ending in inability to hold a job, homelessness, etc.

Acute depression, personality disorders, a history of psychoactive drugs, PTSD, etc. The indications are pretty clear.

[Kang Colby]

21. Mental illness isn't even associated with criminal violence unless substance abuse is also involved.

In fact, the mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violent crime than perpetrators.

Despite what the M$M and gun control advocates will suggest, violence in this country is at a 50 year low. I think the biggest factor isn't mental illness or guns....I believe it's poverty.

[pablo_marmol]

28. Shame of you for speaking the truth!

In fact, the mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violent crime than perpetrators.

Truth.

Despite what the M$M and gun control advocates will suggest, violence in this country is at a 50 year low.

Inconvenient truth.

I think the biggest factor isn't mentall illness or guns....I believe it's poverty.

That, and the failed national drug policy.

[SheilaT]

26. It's two different issues, although lots of people are happy to conflate the two.

Mentally ill people deserve all the help they can get.

Mass shooters are an entirely different thing. It's my personal opinion that severely limiting gun ownership would be a giant step in the right direction. Australia did that, and -- isn't this weird? -- it worked.

[applegrove]

27. Many are psychopaths who should be in the system for a personality

disorder.

[Lee-Lee]

30. The stupid headline doesn't even match what the article says

The article doesn't say that most mass shooters are not mentally ill.

It says that most are mentally ill in a way that makes them a danger to society, but are not treatable but rather for them it is a permanent condition.

Stone maintains a database of more than 300 killers, most of them shooters of four or more people. He essentially breaks mental illness into two categories. In the first category are those with schizophrenia, delusions and other psychoses that separate them from reality and who are suffering from serious mental illness and could be helped with medical treatment. In the second are those with personality, antisocial or sociopathic disorders who may exhibit paranoia, callousness or a severe lack of empathy but know exactly what they are doing.

And that's drawing a silly line to say because sociopaths or other personality disorders can't be treated they are not "mental illness". It's also just plain dishonest because ASPD I other personality disorders are diagnosable mental disorders and in fact are textbook definitions of a mental illness.

This article is a textbook example of someone redefining terms that have actual meaning in order to push an agenda.

If a person suffers from those disorders to the point they are a danger to others they shouldn't be left out on the streets in society- period. A diagnosis doesn't change at all if guns are present or not so that person is a danger to other period.

[MrMickeysMom]

31. Given the number who have been taken out or killed themselves...

... I'm not sure how you can assume that to be the case.

Either way, we've gone outside the boundaries of the Bill of Rights with the way we allow guns to be used.

[Squinch]

33. Because gun humpers need to protect their precious.

[ck4829]

34. Just convert them all to Islam, everyone knows violent Muslims are never mentally ill

(Somewhat anyway, as this does seem to be a serious view that a lot of people actually have)

But I think a lot of it has to do with an idea of damaged masculinity; they're disenfranchised, they're isolated, they have roles they feel they should have but don't, etc. While it's not mental illness, it's quite clear that it mimics it very well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2016/04/20/damaged-masculinity-may-help-explain-columbine-and-other-mass-shootings/

Blaming shootings on 'mental illness' also has a latent function, it allows members of society to wash their hands clean of the violence, it means people don't have to look at or be angry at anything other than the perpetrator. Dylann Roof wasn't influenced by years of racist 'jokes' and screeds of the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens, he was just 'mentally ill'. Robert Dear wasn't influenced by constant and dehumanizing propaganga against Planned Parenthood as well as Carly Fiorina's "They're taking out baby brains", he was just 'mentally ill'. Scott Roeder wasn't an anti-abortion militant for years who was communicating with Operation Rescue, he was just 'mentally ill'. It's time we realize that.

[Orrex]

35. Because it allows gun advocates to deflect attention from their murder toys