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Sun May 22, 2016, 11:55 AM

America has crossed the insanity line and

Last edited Mon May 23, 2016, 05:28 AM - Edit history (1)

is now in un-chartered territory.

The Republican nominee to be, Trump, is more than a scam artist and a buffoon. He's a psychopathic narcissist, and an extremely ignorant man who knows nothing of foreign policy, should never be anywhere near the nuclear codes, and who might appoint some modern-day Caligula to the Supreme Court.

But the Archie Bunkers out there are buying his every word, even though he contradicts his own words seconds after they come out of his mouth. His voters are gobbling up his crap and intentionally ignoring the danger he presents. Or perhaps they are too ignorant to recognize that danger. And that's a really scary scenario.

Meanwhile, the Democratic Party is in an ugly war with itself over a left-wing liberal and a slightly-to-the-right centrist. Were the party unified, either candidate could easily defeat the nut with the orange on top, and perhaps help win back the Senate and the house.

If someone wrote a book with this as the plot, it would be turned down by every editor in the publishing business as too far out there.

Yet, here we are, facing this scenario, and it seems that almost half the voters in this country are backing the deranged snake-oil peddler.

We now know the definition of insanity and we've crashed through it into a new world. Emotions have crushed reason, anger and hatred have replaced measured thought. No matter who wins, this ugliness isn't going away anytime soon.

So prepare yourselves for a dark, perhaps violent era. The path toward such an era has been laid. And no matter who becomes president, reconciliation doesn't seem to be at hand.

One request: I may be wasting my time, but I would ask that posts that belong on GD-P don't show up here. Let's see if we can get just a bit of sanity going here to start healing Democratic Underground. After all, if not here, where? If not now, when?

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Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply America has crossed the insanity line and (Original post)
Cyrano May 2016 OP
Fresh_Start May 2016 #1
RKP5637 May 2016 #2
Fresh_Start May 2016 #4
RKP5637 May 2016 #6
99th_Monkey May 2016 #28
RKP5637 May 2016 #36
AgerolanAmerican May 2016 #7
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #8
tblue37 May 2016 #17
Fresh_Start May 2016 #23
SusanCalvin May 2016 #25
Stonepounder May 2016 #37
Cyrano May 2016 #39
Stonepounder May 2016 #40
tblue37 May 2016 #41
Cosmocat May 2016 #45
NightWatcher May 2016 #3
Fresh_Start May 2016 #5
SusanCalvin May 2016 #26
Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #9
NightWatcher May 2016 #12
Cosmocat May 2016 #46
libodem May 2016 #10
liberal_at_heart May 2016 #11
rjsquirrel May 2016 #30
Egnever May 2016 #43
WinkyDink May 2016 #13
SusanCalvin May 2016 #27
WinkyDink May 2016 #47
mindwalker_i May 2016 #14
liberal_at_heart May 2016 #18
War Pigs May 2016 #15
bucolic_frolic May 2016 #16
nruthie May 2016 #19
MisterP May 2016 #20
Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #21
Johnny2X2X May 2016 #22
Bernardo de La Paz May 2016 #34
awoke_in_2003 May 2016 #24
rjsquirrel May 2016 #29
Hortensis May 2016 #48
zalinda May 2016 #31
kimbutgar May 2016 #32
RKP5637 May 2016 #38
Bernardo de La Paz May 2016 #33
Hortensis May 2016 #49
PatrickforO May 2016 #35
roamer65 May 2016 #42
Rex May 2016 #44

Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 11:58 AM

1. I think we underestimate the degree to which Trump supporters

identify with destroying the system.

They don't care what he says as long as he's against the system...which is against them.
Everything else is immaterial..he's fighting and he's convinced them that he's on their side.

Thats all that matters.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:05 PM

2. I think that's quite true. Their bottom line is to destroy the system they feel has not served them

well, and it's IMO a very serious situation. Logic will not work with them as their main goal is destruction at any cost, not realizing they may be destroyed in the process.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #2)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:28 PM

4. totally agree

what scares me is that there are also people on the left who think destroying the system is a good strategy.

But that seems like a very bad strategy to me.
We cannot predict or control what arises out of the environment.
It can easily be worse that what we have today.

I've read a number of analysis which suggest that these type of events...lead to an even more conservative outcome.

I know that slow change is frustrating...I'm sitting here still waiting for an equal rights amendment.
I'm still waiting for equal pay.

But I'd rather creep along slowly than risk what progress we've already made.
And while that progress has been uneven and not always satisfying..progress has in fact been made.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #4)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:47 PM

6. Definitely true! And as you say, an even more conservative outcome. Generally authoritarian

dictators rise and use any means to suppress descent. In short, the US would become one hellhole.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #6)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:28 PM

28. US has already become a hellhole...

 

..if you happen to be homeless, or a victim of mass incarceration, or a Black
person who's just been gunned-down in the street by a racist cop, or so wracked
with poverty and/or ill health without health insurance that suicide begins to
look attractive.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #28)

Sun May 22, 2016, 03:01 PM

36. Definitely! And with Trump, it will be on steroids. Those thinking he's their F'en hero are

delusional.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #4)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:49 PM

7. You may be suffering from Battered Serf Syndrome

 

Wanting to maintain a system that is designed to screw you in every way possible and reduce the entirety of the population to de facto slaves in the service of an above-the-law wealthy elite is not healthy.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #4)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:50 PM

8. I agree... at this point in time, with the GOP on the edge of destruction, not voting Dem is

 

really counter-productive.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:57 PM

17. When Scott Biao (i.e., Chachi) talks about his support for Trump, he says this:

I want him, as any one person can do, to go into Washington and blow it up" <emphasis added>.


You are so right: that destructive impulse is a large part of Trump's appeal. People are so furious that they just want to tear down the whole darned system.

When Nader suggested in 2000 that if a Bush presidency was bad enough it would force a turn toward a better system, he was wrong. It just gave the worst elements a stronger hold on power--and paved the way for the illegal war in Iraq, Darth Cheney's stranglehold over policy, the appointment of a whole army of right wing civil servants to positions where they are still doing untold harm, and the appointment of Roberts and Alito to the SCOTUS.

We can't afford another such mistake. If he were to become president, Trump would do whatever will benefit himself, and since he is a member of the oligarchy, that means he will do whatever will benefit his own class, not what would benefit the 99%.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #17)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:20 PM

23. i understand the impulse...

i just fear the consequences will be worse than today


We have one existential threat - global warming

Our national threat is not income inequality...thats a symptom
Our national threat is fundamental failure of the electorial system
I'm not talking open versus closed primaries
I'm talking about gerrymandering
the gutting of the voting act

the majority of congress is not accountable to anyone since they are sitting pretty in a gerrymandered district with incumbent advantage

I frequently think I'd rather congress was filled like a jury...
you're turn came up...you have to show up be queried and if you are selected...you serve

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #23)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:24 PM

25. Frederick Pohl proposed something like that decades ago.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #23)

Sun May 22, 2016, 03:02 PM

37. Along those lines,

there was an old Sci-Fi story. Can't remember the name or the author, but the idea was that on Election Day, the supercomputers that basically ran the world, picked one person to be 'the elector', interviewed him/her (of course back then it was always a him) and from his responses picked the President, Congress, and so on.

Anyone else remember that one?

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #37)

Sun May 22, 2016, 03:37 PM

39. I think you're referring to "Franchise," by Isaac Asimov

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Response to Cyrano (Reply #39)

Sun May 22, 2016, 05:29 PM

40. That's it. Thanks. n/t

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #37)

Sun May 22, 2016, 11:05 PM

41. I was thinking about that story just the other day! nt

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Mon May 23, 2016, 06:40 AM

45. I would directly reject this notion

that it is even as remotely "noble" as wanting to "destroy the system."

Trump is a super advanced embodiment of what republicanism has done to this country.

This isn't about breaking the system, that gives them too much credit.

It is the next de evolution in justifying the biases, bigotry and small mindedness of a country that lives a distracted life of convenience and self indulgence.

90s - republicanism was that the founding fathers wanted.
00s - devolved to do what we say or your hate america and love terrorists
08 to 15 - devolved into wake up in the morning, get a sense of worst thing you can think of and blame it on BHO
16 - devolved into full out, aimless stupid ...

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:07 PM

3. Crossed the line? We got drunk on Bud Light and jumped the line on a dirtbike from the flea market

For people who say that we're better than that, I say no we're not. We are mean, petty, willfully gleefully ignorant. We deserve our dystopian future.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #3)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:29 PM

5. you forgot a few attributes

we're selfish, greedy, and enjoy looking down on others to prop up our battered self-esteem

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #5)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:26 PM

26. Too many of us, yes. nt

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #3)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:50 PM

9. who's this we, paleface?

 

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Response to Fast Walker 52 (Reply #9)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:09 PM

12. 'Murica that's who

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #3)

Mon May 23, 2016, 06:42 AM

46. YEP

Time, and watching how things have unfolded over the 50 years of my life, has eroded any possible romantic notion that this country is anything other than what you note ...

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:56 PM

10. Hmmmm?

Psychopathic narcissists, you just described the whole Republick party. They have the perfect candidate.

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 12:57 PM

11. We crossed the insanity line with Reagan and have been being slowly destroyed ever since.

How many trillions of dollars do we have to spend on war? How many lives have to be lost in war? How many people have to starve due to cuts in social services before we demand we reverse course?

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #11)


Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #30)

Mon May 23, 2016, 02:14 AM

43. You don't remember that week?

 

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:11 PM

13. It's become an SNL skit writ large.

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #13)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:26 PM

27. Except it's not funny. nt

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Response to SusanCalvin (Reply #27)

Sun May 29, 2016, 11:45 AM

47. "Except"? ;-)

 

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:36 PM

14. So you said to not have GDP posts in here...

... yet you say beating Trump would be easy if the democratic party were united. That puts this post in GDP territory.

Why is the party divided? One campaign has been based on dividing the party as much as possible and to - and unify it later. One campaign went to great lengths to call any argument against it misgynist/sexist. Saying, "Trump is bad" doesn't erase all that stuff, plus there are some very real concerns that "Hillary is bad" and not about to do the country any good.

There have been some comments about "destroying the system." Why should people prop up a system that has been destroying them for decades? Income inequality is increasing fast. Hillary won't touch this and to think that she will is insanity. In the long (or not so long) term, the system will destroy itself, just as systems that prop up the rich and powerful more and more have been destroyed for millenia. Maybe it's time to chop off the festering, pus-ridden appendages and grow new ones. I won't vote for Trump, so maybe my "strategy" is to let the whole body die so something else can grow in its place.

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Response to mindwalker_i (Reply #14)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:03 PM

18. I agree. Whether they like it or not we are still in the middle of a primary so any

posts regarding the primary should go in GDP.

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:55 PM

15. the disgruntled masses are the

misery loves company crowd. think about how freaking miserable these teatards are....we suffer everybody suffers!!

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:57 PM

16. I think Trump and Ryan

have agreed to work together to privatize all public assets

just like some states - turnpikes, bridges, buildings, lotteries, sewers, water systems

On the Federal level it's more like buildings, federal lands, national parks, highways,
road construction (a recurring Trump theme), prisons, schools, USPS, railroads

Everything! We'll pay forever to bigger overlords than Trump

At least if you didn't want to contribute you could stay out of the casinos

Look for Joe the Plumber to resurface with a jobs plan - trans restrooms in every
public building

we are cooked if we lose this election

It will pile on the exploitation like never before

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:05 PM

19. Well said.

It's all become a ghastly t.v. reality show of horrors. Not at all funny.

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:08 PM

20. unification won't help


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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:12 PM

21. "Insanity in individuals is something rare -

 

"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:14 PM

22. Psychopaths

This group of psychopaths led by Trump are worse than any that came before them. More than anything what they want is to use nuclear weapons. That is their goal, nuke a few countries and use that as an excuse to enslave the masses here and abroad.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #22)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:46 PM

34. Many of them see Trump as the proverbial "useful idiot". . nt

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:22 PM

24. "The path toward such an era has been laid"

 

Yep, it has been building for some time, and we are approaching a perfect storm, all because some petulant jack asses claim they won't vote for candidate X because they want candidate Y to win.

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:39 PM

29. "Unchartered" territory is one of my favorite malapropisms

 

But what is American to do?

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Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #29)

Sun May 29, 2016, 12:11 PM

48. :) Start by educating themselves. Like, Hillary is LIBERAL.

Last edited Sun May 29, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

We need to understand just who we are! The misconceptions are huge and, frankly, as silly as anything Trump can come up with. For instance, two little examples:

Meanwhile, the Democratic Party is in an ugly war with itself over a left-wing
liberal and a slightly-to-the-right centrist.


1. Not even close on Hillary's ideology. We are nominating a candidate who averages out as a firm/strong liberal in every honest study.

"Hillary Clinton was the 11th most liberal member of Congress" -- and that's in THIS Congress on the far right where the Democratic caucus is more liberal than it has been in 100 years.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/3/31/1374629/-Hillary-Clinton-Was-the-11th-Most-Liberal-Member-of-the-Senate
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-was-liberal-hillary-clinton-is-liberal/

2. We're not really in an ugly war with ourselves. That is a media distortion to keep interest stoked. By far most Democrats, the proportion expected when this all started in fact, intend to vote for our nominee, and this has been demonstrated by various relatively high-quality studies and polls.

The vote is the only thing that counts, and the "ugly" will mostly just disappear from discussion when the media move on with the GE.

Cyrano, we are doing pretty well overall. The GOP is in the toilet, and that ascending blue line points to most of the cause. They have gone batshit crazy, adopting ideology that was previously neither even close to mainstream nor even respectable and that is both dysfunctional and incompatible with democracy, and with the 21st century.

Don't get sucked into the giant whirlpool of factional and commercial disinformation. Tack down just a few facts you can evaluate huge claims from, like the number of Democrats expected to vote for our nominee, and you can dismiss most of the "insanity" for the nonsense it is.


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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:42 PM

31. Maybe you better take a look at the definition of insanity again.

Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein


Since Trump isn't part of the Establishment, maybe they are trying something different.

Z

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:44 PM

32. If trump gets elected the movie Idiocracy with be a documentary not a fantasy

God help us and the US if that orange cretin gets elected with republicans controlling all the branches. Say goodbye to social security, Medicare, minimum wage, environmental protections and get ready for endless wars and a poisoning and destructionof our country. Those FEMA camps might become a reality with trumpster wanting to go after his critics.

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #32)

Sun May 22, 2016, 03:05 PM

38. If I were young today and had the means, I would get out of the US. n/t

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:44 PM

33. When 2016 started the Republicans were badly divided & the Democrats supposed to have a stroll. nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #33)

Sun May 29, 2016, 12:29 PM

49. We are. Really. Most of the strife is media

creation to draw audience and will disappear when the media move on to the GE. Sanders will do some things, no doubt, to try to get attention, but once he's out of the race, he's off center stage.

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 02:53 PM

35. In my opinion, and it is a well-considered one, the neoliberal

'free market' brand of capitalism supported by the 'slightly to the right centrists' is a far greater threat to this nation than the specter of a Trump presidency. Look around - broken institutions everywhere, the schools, massive student debt, the false idea that Social Security is driving us 'broke,' the 'there weren't enough votes' lie that gave us Obamacare (the truth is that it was against GATS, which Third Way Dems in droves supported in 1995).

We're NOT better off now by any means. Middle and lower incomes have gone down while the few at the top have had stratospheric rises in their incomes and wealth.

Big corporations are now able to 'offshore' profits and not pay any US income tax.

Drug and healthcare insurance prices have gone off the charts, and now even Americans 'lucky' enough to have insurance have shitty, rationed healthcare with financially crippling copays. The ONLY thing that's better about Obamacare than what we had before is that a few more people are 'covered.' But they'd STILL better not get sick, or they will be broke.

'Free trade' agreements like GATS, NAFTA, and CAFTA have cost this nation hundreds of thousands of good jobs - the kind you could actually get ahead on, raise a family on, and have reasonable economic security with. These jobs have been replaced by lower paying service jobs with fewer benefits and decidedly less economic security.

No, the 'slightly to the right centrists' in both Democratic and Republican parties have become so corrupt they've allowed what democracy we had in this republic to be so seriously compromised that the nation might not be able to recover.

All we have going for us is one voice in the wilderness, Bernie Sanders, who is telling the truth. Will we be smart enough to listen? Will we have the moral fortitude to fight a sustained battle against the forces of oligarchy for the soul of this 'great experiment' that is the USA, or will we quietly fall with a whimper?

Trump isn't the threat, Cyrano, though he has awakened the forces of fascism. This country took the path to insanity with the rise of the Third Way, and the abandonment of working class Americans by the Democratic party.

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 11:10 PM

42. Biff Tannen for president.

That's Trumpf in a nutshell.

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Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 02:21 AM

44. We did that a long time ago when Reagan took office. They knew their actions would

 

lead to this.

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