General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVegan woman dies of altitude sickness on Mount Everest trying to prove "vegans can do anything"
Weeks before her death Dr Strydom told how she and her husband wanted to dispel the belief that vegans were 'weak' or 'malnourished' by taking on the climb.
'It seems that people have this warped idea of vegans being malnourished and weak.
Maria Strydom died on Saturday afternoon after having to turn back from the final leg of the expedition because she felt unwell.
She returned to Camp 4, the last camp before the mountain's summit, on Friday where she spent the night but died from lack of oxygen the following day.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3602846/Pictured-Melbourne-university-lecturer-34-died-altitude-sickness-Mount-Everest-taking-climb-husband-prove-vegans-anything.html
Sad. But I'm not sure she should have attempted this climb.
I guess it's ironic in the sense that she became one of the anecdotes that she was hoping to combat.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)An Australian woman and a Dutch man both died of apparent altitude sickness, the first people killed on the mountain in 2016.
The mountaineering department official Gyanendra Shrestha said frostbite had affected dozens of climbers attempting to make the ascent. Pemba Sherpa, of the Seven Summit Treks agency in Kathmandu, also said one Indian climber had been unable to move due to advanced frostbite and had been carried to a lower camp, where attempts were being made to rescue her by helicopter.
A Norwegian climber has been rescued by sherpas after suffering snow blindness, a painful loss of vision after overexposure to UV rays.
The deaths of the two climbers, the motivational speaker Eric Arnold, 36, and finance lecturer Dr Maria Strydom, 34 whose husband was also injured on the climb down, came as the tourism industry on Everest began to show signs of recovery after two years of devastating natural disasters.
more
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/22/mount-everest-two-climbers-killed-and-30-needing-medical-help
Everest is dangerous. News at 11.
dilby
(2,273 posts)comes to altitude sickness.
former9thward
(32,096 posts)Vegans often have a deficiency in Iron. Iron is used by the body in delivering oxygen to the body. She died from a lack of oxygen.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)more susceptible to iron deficiency than meat eaters. Their rates of iron deficiency are about equal to meat eaters.
former9thward
(32,096 posts)But you are here insisting, without evidence, that her diet had nothing to do with it.
Rex
(65,616 posts)My opinion, Mt Everest killed her because it is an extremely dangerous mountain to climb up and then get back down.
former9thward
(32,096 posts)And you don't either. I am not the one insisting her diet had nothing to do with this. Did you perform her autopsy?
Rex
(65,616 posts)former9thward
(32,096 posts)Doremus
(7,261 posts)Probably by a factor of at least 20:1.
former9thward
(32,096 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)The vegan crowd seems rarely bothered by opinions. However, cowering behind implication can be concerning. However, I'd pretend I'm a bother to people too-- it let's us feel more effectual than reality dictates.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)former9thward
(32,096 posts)The people opposed to me SAID THAT DIET HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, WITHOUT EVIDENCE.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)the body but good for the environment as well.
One would be considered a vegan by only eating potato chips and soda, but that would be highly unhealthy.
Healthy organic fruits, vegetables, legumes, whole grains, nuts and seeds make for an excellent diet consisting of large amounts of bio-available nutrients.
2naSalit
(86,824 posts)and creative no doubt.
comes to altitude sickness.
Is what the person you dispute said, verbatim. I wonder how that is insisting that her diet absolutely had nothing to do with her death.
former9thward
(32,096 posts)Did you do the autopsy?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)intelligent person who had been a vegan for quite a while. Athletic vegans do not approach their diet and health from a place of ignorance. Even the most robust and healthy athletic meat eater can succumb to altitude sickness. Why? Because fitness and health is not a factor.
I am susceptible to motion sickness. No kind of diet or exercise has ever made it go away.
4139
(1,893 posts)The iron thing she probably knew about .... Maybe not the B12
Rex
(65,616 posts)However what she did was not a normal walk in the park. Exposure to the extreme elements got to her, many people should NOT try and hike up Mt Everest, is what I take away from this story.
tblue37
(65,490 posts)intrinsic factor deficiency.
I am one of those people. I have to get an intramuscular B12 shot every month.
But it took several years before my symptoms reached a point where the doctor ordered a blood test and discovered that I had megaloblastic anemia, caused by B12 deficiency.
She could have had a B12 deficiency despite eating foods rich in vitamin B12. That is what happened to me. In fact, I was even taking B12 supplements at the time. I had no idea that my body was not able to make use of ingested B12.
But if that was her problem, then it wasn't caused by being a vegan. I have always been an omnivore, yet I developed B12 deficiency anemia while eating meat and taking B12 supplements.
mucifer
(23,576 posts)She would know that. With supplements our B12 levels are the same as meat eaters.
People are vegans for decades and don't succumb to malnutrition. Many weight lifters are vegan. Some football players are vegan.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)He takes vitamins as well and is extremely athletic, full of energy.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And I have nothing against vegans. But you state you must take a supplements to equal B12 levels of a meat eater.
So without the modern world you could not perform like a meat eater?
I mean if you must use supplements provided by industrial business, are you really living a natural life?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)That is why vegan Buddhists have survived.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)FWIW, I don't think anybody is living a natural life, we're all sitting in front of computers and we didn't die of childhood diseases.
I don't mind taking a supplement because my food doesn't have enough shit in it.
mucifer
(23,576 posts)I care about the animals.
As the old Yiddish vegetarian Isaac Bashevis Singer once said, I don't do it for my health, I do it for the health of the chickens.
The B12 pills are here available to us. Fruits, vegetables and grains and nuts are available to us. (oh yeah and some of us including me eat french fries and vegan mayo sugary chocolaty foods and unhealthy stuff like that which is plant based, too. ) We have the option to do less harm by not eating meat. It's a choice that I and many others have made. Factory farms are everywhere and the cruelty is insane.
Oh and I ask you is the genetically modified chicken and turkey that is so pumped up with it's size it can barely move natural? I'll take the B12 pills thank you.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I was curious and you answered my question. Personally I love industrial scale grain farming because without it billions of people, none in the western world, would starve.
But I hate with a passion industrial animal farming because it is unavoidably cruel. I am an omnivore and enjoy meat. But it is either meat raised on a farm I can visit, or preferably meat from animals I kill myself. Just speaking for me, not others, if I were to eat meat but was unable to slaughter it myself I would feel like a hypocrite.
As for the story it seems it is using a sad event to poke fun at another's chosen lifestyle.
dilby
(2,273 posts)Two people died, a man and a woman, a vegan and a carnivore her diet did not kill her.
former9thward
(32,096 posts)I did not think so.
Warpy
(111,367 posts)Being unprepared and not bringing 02 with you has a great deal to do with it.
Visitors out here to NM who have wanted to ride the tram have gotten mild altitude sickness at the top. It's no joke, even the mild form that goes away when they ride back down off the mountain.
It's the hypoxia leading to cerebral edema, not the diet.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)I don't think her death says anything about being a vegan. There are lots of people who aren't vegan who die from altitude sickness.
longship
(40,416 posts)And then, she died!
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)exactly what I said.
longship
(40,416 posts)Especially when they hypocritically use it as a promotion for their vegan religion... And then they die in the attempt.
I don't want to see fruitarians or breathairians die either, but apparently that is their choice as well. It is sad what people talk themselves into.
Food is good for you. Eat food.
on earth are you talking about?
yewberry
(6,530 posts)has a longstanding hatred for vegans. Doesn't make a secret of it.
longship
(40,416 posts)Who set out to prove that vegans can do anything and undermine their entire argument by demonstrating the contrary.
If the poor woman didn't die, it might be laughable. Frankly, I find it sorrowful and a bit pitiful.
Why do people have to proselytize their chosen diets? A most useless endeavor.
Don't get me started about breathairians.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Her diet had ZERO influence on her developing altitude sickness.
longship
(40,416 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Blaming people for noticing she instead provided fodder for the exact opposite seems pretty strange. If she hadn't made it about her diet it wouldn't be a story.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)collapsed from exhaustion but she did not. She died from altitude sickness for which diet and fitness are not factors.
Consider this, "Vegan who bragged about climbing Everest dies in an avalanche." Her diet would have had as much influence over her ability to survive it as it did for her ability to survive altitude sickness.
Or, what if a vegan brags about running a 26 mile marathon then gets hit by a car?
You are making the cause of her death about her diet.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Mountain climber dies of altitude sickness.
Mouintain climber that told how she and her husband wanted to dispel the belief that vegans were 'weak' dies of altitude sickness.
One of those made it about her Veganism.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)altitude sickness is a sign of weakness or malnutrition.
It isn't. She got altitude sickness despite her strength and fitness. As do many robust and healthy meat eaters.
You are trying to create a link between her cause of death and her diet. Doing so is as ignorant if she had died by lightning strike.
They are unrelated.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Sounds like you have an unhealthy fixation about what other people choose to eat. I could care less what they eat unless they try to force me to eat it. I'm a meat and potato person myself. I Hate most veggies & seafood.
Authoritarians who try to tell other people what to do turn me off and when they try to push their nonsense using a story that has nothing to do with what the woman ate is very revealing.
longship
(40,416 posts)Maybe you missed the utter irony in the situation.
I don't give a fuck what people eat. They can eat shit for all I care. But when they argue about what I should be able to eat, I draw the line.
I am an omnivore. In my late years I eat less meat than I used to. But unlike this sadly dead vegan, I don't try to convert people to my diet.
Eat what you want. Food is good for you. Eat food.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)former9thward
(32,096 posts)Did you do her autopsy? What was the Iron level in her blood? Hint: Iron is used to deliver oxygen to the body. Doctors will tell you vegans often have low iron levels. People who are fit can get altitude sickness but people who are fit are less likely to suffer from it. So your statement that fitness has "nothing to do with fitness or diet." is nonsense.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Who cares if she said that? She has a right to say whatever she wants. Why don't you try not listening to them if you think they are trying to tell you what to eat? Sounds like you're the one who is eat up with this. This woman died, her words can't hurt you any more. Let it go.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,385 posts)Or you wouldn't be illogically calling this woman a 'hypocrite' for dying while attempting Everest. She was 1 of 2 people to die on Everest in the past few days from altitude sickness complications. It's not 'hypocritical' to follow a diet. She had previously climbed Aconcagua, Denali and Kilimanjaro. She was probably far fitter than you or I will ever be.
longship
(40,416 posts)However, I just find people who can't stop talking about their chosen diet, boorish.
Eat what you want. Leave everybody to do the same.
If one is vegan, good for them! What's that to do with me? Oh! I see. They think I should be vegan, too. Why don't they go back to Vega and leave other people alone?
Too many of them can't. And now some apparently die trying. That's sad.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,385 posts)what the word means. You're riled up about this. You think that someone talking about being a vegan means they're not 'leaving you alone', despite you never having heard a word she said until now. You are acting irrationally.
Maybe you should be angry at the Daily Mail for reporting it, or the thread starter for repeating it where you might see it? That would make just as much sense as being angry at her saying it to her university.
longship
(40,416 posts)Would have been at all anything to do with her chosen diet. But she's the one who made it the issue!!!
I merely pointed out the sad irony and hypocrisy of it all, that somebody would actually think that.
If she had safely gained the summit and returned she would have likely been trumpeting her veganism all over. She as much as said herself that is why she did it.
Now, she's a sad ironic lesson. And she didn't exactly help vegans in their proselytization of their food religion.
I feel for her family.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,385 posts)1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypocrite
And maybe you should read this, since you appear to be the kind of person she was talking about:
It seems that people have this warped idea of vegans being malnourished and weak, Dr Strydom said. By climbing the seven summits we want to prove that vegans can do anything and more.
http://monash.edu/news/show/lecturer-faces-new-heights
Meanwhile:
Three years ago he climbed Cho Oyu, the world's sixth highest peak, without oxygen.
...
Mick, who has been a vegetarian all his life, became a vegan two years ago.
"I can run faster and longer and recover quicker as a result," he said.
http://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news/people/Mick-has-sights-set-on-Everest-without-oxygen-89b2fa98-7838-44e7-b257-e3f26d7a4423-ds
Great news, just after first light, Mick Allen is the first climber to reach the summit this morning. He switched over to using oxygen from about 8400m after his feet started to get really cold, so a really sensible decision by Mick to carry the oxygen. The oxygen made a huge difference and he started to get feeling back in his feet after 10 minutes. Not sure if he was also drinking rocket fuel while he was up their but hes made the summit in fantastic time. The rest of the team are still making their way up towards the summit and will hopefully join him soon.
https://www.adventurepeaks.com/everest-north-lhakpa-ri-north-col-expeditions/
longship
(40,416 posts)But I am not the one proselytizing my food choices. They are.
Lancero
(3,015 posts)For not giving a shit about the topic you sure seem to be posting a lot in it. Roughly 15% of the posts in this topic.
Ironically hypocritical of you.
longship
(40,416 posts)I don't give a damn. But I also wish people who adhere to food-based religions (vegan, fruitarians, breathairians) to just leave people alone about their diets.
This woman died trying to promote her food-based religion. That is the saddest part of the entire matter. What a waste!
yewberry
(6,530 posts)Yes, you do.
longship
(40,416 posts)However, if you get in my face about your chosen diet, I am going to have some issues.
I am also a lifelong atheist, but I don't tell people unless it comes up in conversation. Note: that hardly never happens with another atheist. It is universally the theists who bring up religion. Some people cannot stop talking about it.
This woman made her vegan diet the issue, not me.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Pull the other one.
longship
(40,416 posts)But food-based religion disgusts me.
Eat what you choose! But don't make a Mt. Everest summit attempt an exemplar of how healthy and wonderful your food choices are. Whatever you do, do not pin your success on such a venture to such a shallow thing as "I eat only vegetables."
That would be a stupid thing to do, especially since 230+ people have died trying what you are about to attempt.
It is not that she died of altitude sickness -- why in the fuck didn't you take oxygen? -- it's that her and her husband hitched their "seven summits" wagon to their vegan diet.
Well, maybe they ought to have tried the "seven second summits". It would have been a bit easier, however the Asian second summit is K2, which is a more deadly summit than Everest. The "Seven Third Summits" isn't much better. It includes Kangchenjunga, a summit with a rather extraordinary death rate.
But, by all means, assign your survival -- so far -- to the fact that you eat only vegetables. That is until you get to one of the 14 8,000 meter peaks (all in the Himilayas) where being either a vegan or an omnivore isn't going to help you.
I would bet they tried it without oxygen. Because... you know, vegan!
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Seriously, get a hobby.
longship
(40,416 posts)And I am a firm believer that ridicule for ridiculous concepts is both fun and appropriate. Now I am sad that this woman died. But this was her choice, and she did it because of her fucking menu choice!!!!!
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Somehow I'd missed them, I went looking to see if they were as dickish as you are in GD. They were, and now you're blocked.
longship
(40,416 posts)I am not against vegetarianism, vegans, or animal rights. I am against their rather crazy health claims, none of which are supported by the science, that is somehow more healthy. It isn't. It just isn't.
The most healthy diet is a diverse one, with meat or not, whether one eats dairy or not, or eggs or not. Being vegan or vegetarian does not give anybody any special privilege to health claims since it is all basically calories and protein and nutrients which come from any number of sources.
One chooses. That is the issue here. Vegans ban from their group because they cannot tolerate diet choice. If one eats meat... Gone. Well, I also eat eggs!!! Clutch your pearls.
I don't recommend you attempt to prove that your diet is better by trying to climb Everest, and especially not K2, which was the entire point of this thread.
Apparently some of you are suffering from irony deficiency disorder. And I don't for a minute think that it is a diet insufficiency.
Don't take it personally. I literally don't care what you eat. Just leave my diet to my choice. And if people did not climb deadly mountains merely to promote their chosen diets, the world would be a better place.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)Liar.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027832327#post18
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027832327#post22
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027832327#post35
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027832327#post62
How, exactly, did I get in your face before you came up with:
"Vegans are fucking idiots."
"Vegans are loonies."
"The only hope for vegans is that will likely die off..."
"Fuck vegans."
?
longship
(40,416 posts)Theirs is a food-based religion. They not only don't want to eat meat, they want nobody else to eat meat, or dairy, or eggs, etc.
Most of them are reasonable. My cousin is one of those. His whole family is vegan. And he never says a word about it. And if you go to eat at his house, the food is fairly awesome.
But then there are those who seem to have to proselytize their diet choices. Well, screw them.
Eat what you want. Just shut up about it. Don't make it like a religion. That just makes it suck.
My best to you.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)Any time anyone mentions veg*nism, you come out swinging.
"Vegans are fucking idiots."
"Vegans are loonies."
"The only hope for vegans is that will likely die off..."
"Fuck vegans."
Most veg*ns are reasonable, just like most omnivores. You do not happen to be one of those people.
And again, you can shove your best regards.
longship
(40,416 posts)Just keep your diet to yourself.
Again, it's the behavior. They not only don't eat meat, they want nobody else to eat meat either.
That is a rather big problem. For instance, what does one do with all the cows? They cannot live in the wild because they are domesticated. There's all that animal husbandry over thousands of years which gave rise to today's domesticated cows.
Now one can make ethical arguments about not eating meat, and that is part of why I eat a lot less of it at my age. I suggest that you look up Temple Grandin, a rather awesome person who is an academic at the height of such ethical questions.
But I am not the vegan's enemy here, except maybe to point out when one climbs Mount Everest in advocacy for a vegan diet, that might not be a very good idea.
Your best argument is ethical treatment of animals. Stick with that. It's the one that convinces. Ditch the health claims -- no educated person thinks vegans aren't healthy (I reserve that ridicule to the fruitarians and breathairians) -- especially if one is using it to justify climbing one of the 14 8,000 meter summits, all fucking dangerous, all in the Himalayas.
My whole point here is that you are not at all helping your case with that argument.
And yes, my best to you.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)Your tone is condescending, and please don't advise me to look up Grandin. She is not exactly the latest news.
You've already told me to fuck off & wished for my death, all without me mentioning my diet. So cram your snotty pleasantries.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You make many unsupported allegations to rationalize your choice of vulgarity towards them.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)2naSalit
(86,824 posts)like, what about that second person who also died on the same day of the same cause, didn't say whether he was a vegan...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)No interest in Everest, skydiving, parasailing, any of that stuff. I'm not even crazy about Space Mountain.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,372 posts)... I'd move to a caucus state.
Voting is just so ... tame.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)I don't want to die of altitude sickness or oxygen deprivation or whatever it is
3catwoman3
(24,056 posts)Driving is plenty risky for my tastes.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)The other stuff, i'm with you. I felt parasailing was reasonably safe (and not all that daring) because the parasail is open before you ever leave the ground. If it weren't you wouldn't go up in the air.
The jumping out of perfectly good plane, or mountain climbing, i leave be.
Response to Kang Colby (Original post)
Turbineguy This message was self-deleted by its author.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)DesertRat
(27,995 posts)tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)Happy grave dancing
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)REP
(21,691 posts)It's true I don't "get" mountain climbing and have no wish to risk my life or others doing it, it seems like every dipshit with more money than sense wants to summit Everest as though it's merely a super-tough rock wall at their gym, rather than a dangerous mountain that's littered with crap (literal and figurative) from people traipsing up it for personal growth.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Who wrote this? The beef industry? "See? People who only eat plant based proteins die when they climb Mt. Everest."
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)Why do you think she felt that way?
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)Do you think she proved what she set out to? I doubt it. Her statements essentially furthered the stigma. It's just food for thought.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Sure, she was on a mission to prove that vegans can do anything...and they can. They can also die on Mt. Everest just like everyone else that wasn't a vegan that died on Mt. Everest.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Person believes that being a vegan doesn't make them any different than anyone else.
But person decides to be vegan because they think it does make them different (more healthy/etc).
Person uses her status as being a vegan to show that she isn't different.
She proves her point.
So, she sort of won the argument while missing the idea that being vegan in the first place made her somehow better.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)I'm sorry. I didn't know you had that conversation with her, my bad.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)"We want to prove that vegans can do anything and more."
I am not saying she was in anyway a bad person, she was, from what I can tell, pretty awesome (and she didn't like hillary too much either it seems).
So this isn't about her the person, but about the ideas surrounding a lifestyle choice which someone set out to prove made them something different (and healthier) and proving that, in the end, we all just die anyway.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)I don't know how many times I hear that shit. And yes, sometimes I feel that I need to prove that I've plenty of stamina and strength no matter how many stupid questions and assumption people make.
Her statement wasn't that she is healthier but rather she is healthy enough no matter how weak and malnourished meat eaters assume she might be.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)And you would also, possibly, note that vegans tell people who aren't all sorts of things as well?
let's face it, people preach to others about things on all sides. From people who don't smoke to people who don't eat meat to conservatives whining about abortion, there are zealots who try to make people feel like shit about their personal choices.
I don't wander about labeling myself non-vegan. I don't set my status to that, I don't meet people and say "Hi, I eat meat."
If I had climbed that mountain and said "I vape and sometimes smoke and wanted to show people it doesn't mean xyz" and I died you bet your sweet ass there would be some very liberal folks jumping all over that. People die from the same shit all the time - whether they are vegan, smokers, gun owners, or fitness fanatics who spend 2 hours at a gym all day.
And, again, most people don't go through their life blabbing about their choices when doing something "I eat fast food, hamburgers, and I did a 5k walk, woohoo, it means something!" but, for some reason, some people do.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)environment or climate change, I will talk a vegetarianism. If the conversation is about the sanctity of cats and dogs, I will talk about vegetarianism.
If you had climbed that mountain bragging about vaping and smoking and then died from a condition unrelated to vaping and smoking, then those criticizing you would be ignorant assholes.
The grave dancing for this woman is quite revealing.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)As far as "going through their life blabbing about their choices" well, it's kind of hard to keep it a secret if they ever actually spend time with other people. People do notice, and they do ask about it.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Go hang out in Creative Speculation for a bit
longship
(40,416 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)...know why I even bother getting involved in asshole threads like this.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Are you trying to say that maybe she deserved it by making a big deal about being vegan?
longship
(40,416 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)TexasBushwhacker
(20,220 posts)She was only 34. Many premenopausal women are borderline anemic even if they eat meat. You can certainly get enough iron on a vegan diet but you have to make a point of it. Low iron and thin air are a deadly combination.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)There are actually people who hate vegans? WTF? Why?
danimich1
(175 posts)There are preachy people all over the place. I highly doubt that vegans preach more than the average person who believes strongly in something. I think some people have guilt issues, so they attack vegans to make themselves feel better.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)until I saw some of the crazy comments in this thread. Reading your comments and the ones here, I think you might be onto something.
Mother Of Four
(1,716 posts)Is that people keep stereotyping, but they're not addressing that.
As an example it's always "Vegans" instead of "Some vegans" etc
I've read the majority of the thread and they are broad brushing beyond belief. Instead of addressing the fact that they are stereotyping, they're just bickering. Every set of beliefs have their crowers, but they don't speak for or represent everyone in that group.
You're right, it is ridiculous.
danimich1
(175 posts)some people really love to bicker. Ugh.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Oh, wait.
Was she blonde? If so then the headline should have read "Blonde Dies on Mt. Everest".
Or maybe she was a redhead.
Oh, I know. She was a Liberal:" "Liberal Dies on Mt. Everest". Ah, that's so typical of those silly Liberals.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)you have too. Good grief. Let's use some common sense people.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)her cause of death.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)Low iron levels may have played some role but that's just speculation. Making that claim is no different than what you are claiming though.
How can you say her diet and fitness had nothing to do with this?
I have nothing against vegans by the way. This story was only worthy of discussion due to the statements she made before her failed attempt to climb Everest.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)vegans are no more prone to iron deficiency than meat eaters. The rate of iron deficiency in vegans and meat eaters are about the same.
Any vegan that eats healthfully is going to get plenty of iron whether they know it or not.
Hekate
(90,849 posts)...for anything, and it's rather cruel to use her death to try to make her into one.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)TexasProgresive
(12,159 posts)It is possible that she was anemic from not eating meat but I would think as a doctor she would be taking iron and B-12.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)not a medical doctor.
TexasProgresive
(12,159 posts)or did she succumb to altitude sickness like many other climber before her?
Texasgal
(17,048 posts)with her demise. I agree!
Lot's of people die on Everest every season in the same manner. Dumb headline. My heart goes out to her family and friends!
Rex
(65,616 posts)A lot of people say it is her diet, well maybe but also it is freakin MOUNT EVEREST! That is not a kiddie hill by any means of the imagination!
Only the most fit (mentally and physically) should even think about the long climb.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)It could've just as easily read
"Woman's death proves that Aussies shouldn't attempt Everest."
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)I don't have a position on that, but her statements beforehand set this sad example of irony in motion.
klook
(12,171 posts)Oh, sorry - wrong religious war.
Note to all: the Trash Thread button is your friend.
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)ToxMarz
(2,169 posts)Shaivo from the Senate floor based on a video the family made. And the people here are not even doctors. The story is ironic, not diagnostic. It's not just the Teabaggers that are blinded by "conventional wisdom" for lack of knowledge.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)I posted this due to the sad and unfortunate irony. Not as a discussion of the merits of veganism.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and she is probably the first vegan.
who wrote this story, bigAg and the atkins company?
rip to all the climbers, but the idea that this was due to her diet is INSANE
she probably had thinner blood and less crap in her arteries and less body fat to drag up the mountain, all of which may have added to her survival odds
pffft
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)cool. and they often go up without supplemental o2
so much for veggie eaters being weak.......
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)It is interesting. Some sherpas are 100% vegetarian. But others will buy meat but won't slaughter while disdaining butchers as lower class.
Talk about cognitive dissonance!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)i think the strange "i might eat it but won't kill it" thing comes from buddhism. some buddhists will eat meat offered but not if a specific animal was killed just for them to eat it. perhaps a variation of the "if its already dead" theme
life is simpler to just avoid it completely, imo
NickB79
(19,274 posts)An international team of researchers compared the DNA of 50 Tibetans with that of 40 Han Chinese and found 34 mutations that have become more common in Tibetans in the 2,750 years since the populations split. More than half of these changes are related to oxygen metabolism.
The researchers looked at specific genes responsible for high-altitude adaptation in Tibetans. "By identifying genes with mutations that are very common in Tibetans, but very rare in lowland populations we can identify genes that have been under natural selection in the Tibetan population," said Professor Rasmus Nielsen of the University of California Berkeley, who took part in the study. "We found a list of 20 genes showing evidence for selection in Tibet - but one stood out: EPAS1."
The gene, which codes for a protein involved in responding to falling oxygen levels and is associated with improved athletic performance in endurance athletes, seems to be the key to Tibetan adaptation to life at high altitude. A mutation in the gene that is thought to affect red blood cell production was present in only 9% of the Han population, but was found in 87% of the Tibetan population.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... make decisions as to how we are going to live our lives. When one does that, they have to live (or die) with the consequences. It's so sad. She looked like such a vibrant happy & healthy person in the pictures. And she was, until her body ran out of oxygen. Why didn't she have an oxygen tank with a canula in her nose? I would think that O2 would be required on those mountain climbs.
roody
(10,849 posts)privileged.
longship
(40,416 posts)The mountainside is virtually littered with bodies, many for decades never to be recovered.
ananda
(28,881 posts)You have to slowly acclimate to an atmosphere with less oxygen
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)but the underlying problem is that so many people are climbing that mountain.
Here are some photos:
A line of climbers on the Lhotse face of Mt. Everest. I believe this was taken last year.
Another picture of climbers near the summit
And then there's the trash left behind
More trash
?crop=0.6647173489278753xw:1xh;0.05847953216374269xw,0xh
Not to mention all the used oxygen tanks
I won't post pictures of the many bodies that have been left on the mountain. But they're readily found on line.
Eko
(7,369 posts)Correlation is not causation.
Orrex
(63,228 posts)I have to admit that I'd have collapsed and expired long before reaching base camp.
Brother Joe Observes
(61 posts)From the article, which doesn't mention anything about Arnold's eating habits. I simply don't see the connection to veganism.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)High altitude climbing is dangerous for anyone, and while she was an experienced climber, that can lead to overconfidence. She should have went to a much lower elevation when she was feeling ill rather than just the camp at 26k.
The article doesn't give any information about the procedures used for slowly acclimating to such evations, either. If people don't properly acclimate themselves each time, elevations of just 14k can cause acute mountain sickness. In addition, another person died from altitude sickness in the same trip, with no mention of veganism.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Everest kills respected, experienced, world-class climbers with shocking regularity...
I'll never know the appeal for so many amateurs who are willing to roll the dice...
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)sheldon: a physics point
amy: touche
could not resist
but yes, a frail wallflower she was not
Lancero
(3,015 posts)Unlike, well... All of you.
She failed in her climb, but the fact that she attempted it goes to show that she was far stronger then any of her detractors.
Put that on your plate and eat it.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)hold the meat for me, please.....
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)...in which dead human bodies are used as landmarks...
...is a very dangerous place.
freeplessinseattle
(3,508 posts)Plus I'd wager there's quite a few vegetarians, and vegans, in Tibet and Nepal.