Something you need to know about Ben Nelson

[housewolf]

Let me first say that I'm no fan of or apologist for Ben Nelson. I have felt all the same disappointment and frustration with him that you have felt. And yet...

He voted with the Dems 82% of the time.

He'd been offered the job of position of Agriculture Secretary by Karl Rove. If he had taken it, the Dems wouldn't have had 60 votes in the Senate from 2008 - 2010.

He was re-elected with 66% of the votes in Nebraska (a very red state) in his last election.

Nebraska is a very red state. The odds of another Democrat winning Nelson's seat are virtually non-existent (unless Bob Kerry would consider running for it)

Ben Nelson didn't vote for Mitch McConnell or any of the Republican agenda (voting "no" on something does not equate to voting 'yes' on the agenda of the opposite party, it means "no, there's something here I can't support&quot

Ben Nelson voted for President Obama's health care reform


Yes, we've all been frustrated with Ben Nelson. Nonetheless, we have much to be thankful for to him. But he's not a Republican. He's WAY better than a Republican would have been or will be.

And if you question that, do some research. Go check his voting record and see for yourself instead of tossing off flip phrases like "he's a Republican anyway so it won't make any difference if he's replaced by a Republican."

Democrats don't vote in lockstep. We never have and we never will. The Dem constituency is too diverse to allow for that to ever be the case.

It will make a difference if a Republican takes his seat, a big difference.

[elleng]

1. With you 100%.

Ed on Ed show now trying to tell us why this is good for Dems.

[B Calm]

21. Don't you mean 82% ?

[hfojvt]

2. Exon, Zorinsky and Kerrey were elected to a number of terms

A Democrat can win in Nebraska, but it is tough and they probably don't have another Kerrey.

[TheWraith]

5. Well if the rumors are right, they've still got the old Kerrey... nt

[hfojvt]

12. actually about Kerrey

He first ran for the Senate in 1988, shortly after I moved to Lincoln for graduate school. From the ads he ran, I thought he was the Republican. His opponent attacked him as a raving liberal. I'd be surprised if he was not as much of a DINO as Nelson.

But it beats the alternative.

Stiill, I would rather see new blood than a 3rd term. Do all our Congresspeople have to be lifers?

[dsc]

46. Kerry was actually a bit better

but still a pain in the ass.

[housewolf]

6. Lawrence said he called Bob Kerry today

Actually, woke him up at 2am (he's in India).

Bob told him that he's often thought about moving back to Nebraska, and thought about it recently. But that he'd never thought about running for the Senate from there.

So, now, maybe he WILL think about it. (he didn't say that to Lawrence, that's my idea).

[frazzled]

8. He's perennially thinking about running

This isn't the first time: he was going to run for Senate in Nebraska, and then Mayor of New York--all within the last 6 or 8 years, I think. He never did. I doubt this time will be different, but perhaps not.

[BlueToTheBone]

3. I hope the Democrats have someone ready to step up

and they support her/him 1000%

[TheWraith]

4. Kicked and recommended.

There will always be Democrats we don't agree with 100%. That's true even in the bluest of blue areas, and it's only more true in red states. People can talk all they like about "real Democrats" but you won't elect the same person out Nebraska that you do out of Massachusetts. Believe me, I've been there on the wrong end of trying to run a candidate too liberal for the electorate. We got 29 percent of the vote. The trick is to elect 95% Democrats where you can, and 80% Democrats where you can't.

I would rather have ten Ben Nelson's in the Senate than even five Republicans, because I know that the Ben Nelsons are going to side with me eight times out of ten. I might not agree with them on the other two, but eight times out of ten is better than zero out of ten. Eight out of ten means passing eight bills that improve people's lives, save people from foreclosure, and make medical care available to people who need it. And with enough of those red-state Dems, you can let some of them go their own way on a hot-button issue, because you know that the others have your back.

[housewolf]

10. Thank you for that

I'm with you - I'd rather have 12 Ben Nelson's that 1 more Republican also, especially this year when we're going to have such a hard time holding on to the majority in the Senate.

[PassingFair]

30. And I'd rather have 12 Lincoln Chaffees or Jim Jeffords than 1 Ben Nelson.

Or Bill Nelson, for that matter.

Befouling our beds and standing for nothing.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Elizabeth Warren would win handily in Nebraska

A pretendocrat will lose.

The Third Way crowd will eventually understand that the game is up: the days of the 99%ers voting against their own interests are over.

For 30 years I've been watching the mischief - this is the first time I've sensed a change in the electorate.

[TheWraith]

17. Keep telling yourself that if you like, but you're wrong.

Once again: I have actually seen from the inside what it looks like to run someone too liberal for the electorate.

You're in the position the Tea Party is of trying to believe that if only candidates would be more extreme, your side would win every election. It's just not so. The fact is that there are large swaths of the country where even conservative Democrats can't win, and liberal Democrats would be absolutely destroyed, no matter how "pure" you think they are.

[Dewey Finn]

20. You just definitively redefined the word

"naive".

I really wish you were right. You aren't.

[MineralMan]

34. You are woefully incorrect in that assessment.

Nebraska would not elect her to that office. Absolutely not.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. I seriously doubt that Warren could win in Nebraska

I used to live there. It's as red as red can be. VERY conservative. It's actually amazing to me that ANY Democrat was elected to the US Senate from Nebraska.

[bluestate10]

51. You are a Kansan. Who are democratic players in your state that can run a winning race?

Other than Kerry. I think that it is time for younger candidates that have fire and achievable ideas inside them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Not many.

My major beef with our state Democratic party is their failure to build a bench.

[Bandit]

49. He also happened to be the ONLY Democrat to sign Grover's No Taxes Pledge.

If you want someone that has Pledged to Grover Norquest instead of the USA then we are in Deep Trouble..

[freshwest]

7. I'm getting fed up with the 'they're all the same' meme. Who does it serve?

People that don't like the ones in office need to run themselves. We're going to have a very hard time holding onto the WH, Senate or many state houses next year.

[housewolf]

11. I'm tired of it, too

As a vision, it's self-defeating

[freshwest]

13. And orchestrated by the corporate media and swallowed whole.

All the savaging of this man from Democrats who were ready to kill him, but won't take his place.

[LiberalAndProud]

9. He wasn't going to win. We would lose the seat even if he didn't retire.

We can gnash our teeth or not, but that is the cold, hard fact. He didn't have any supporters from the right, and there aren't enough Democratic voters here to hold the seat. even if we were all enamored of him. For the record, many of us aren't.

We had best focus on picking up seats elsewhere, because this one belongs to Nebraska*

*[font size="1"] Go Big Red[/font]

[Logical]

14. 66% support from a red state is all I need to know that he is not a real dem!

[housewolf]

16. So you'd rather have a "real Repub" in the seat?

You know, politics, by its very nature, is complex. It's not simple. It's not straightforward. It's not walking in lockstep - that's authoritarianism, not democracy. It's about people - individuals and all their nuances.

The constituency of the Democratic Party is hugely diverse. It always has been and it always will be. If by "real Democrat" you mean someone who will walk in lockstep with the desires of other some other dems who have written legislation to to appeal to THEIR constituency and not yours, or who have kow-towed to THEIR special interests and fund-raisers, in spite of thinking that the legislation is wrong in some way and in spite if the feedback that you receive from your own constituency - if that's what you mean by a "real Dem", I think you need to re-think things.

Just as no issue is all black or all while but rather many shades of grey, the Democratic Party is many shades of blue - all of which are "real blue", be they sky blue or navy blue or cobalt blue. Different shades of the same color. And all are valid (i.e., "real&quot blue. It's the same with political parties. Numerous individuals, all different but all Dems. None more or less "real" than the others.

[Logical]

27. Ben Nelson, is not who I want in office. And his statement about cooperation is a joke.....

I am so sick of the "Both Sides Are Wrong" crap.
The GOP does not give a shit about the average american. Period.
If you want a like of things Ben Nelson supported or did not support that proves he is not a true dem let me know.

[Dewey Finn]

18. Your response is all I need to know that you have a (fortunately) unique take on being "logical".

You should read the OP again. It's quite informative, if read carefully.

[karynnj]

37. By your logic, you rule out ANY Democrat possible ever being both a "real"

Democrat AND winning in a red state. It is ONLY if they have high personal approval that they can win - as many people need to be really impressed with someone to vote for the party they do not usually support.

[Logical]

38. Want me to send you a list of things Nelson fought against? Then you can decide?

[karynnj]

47. I was not speaking of Nelson per se, but re-read the op

Tell me what we would have been able to do in 2009 without 60 votes. There were several times where Nelson was a problem, but if he - or any other Democrat - were replaced by a Republican, there would have been no HCR passing. Not to mention, the Republican who replaced him would not be a Snowe/Collins/Brown type Republican, who we might get on some important votes, he would probably be more like Johanns.

That he turned down Secretary of Agriculture and stayed a Democrat in the Senate meant we had the Senate chairs in 2007. Compare this to the dysfunctional 109th Congress when the Republicans controlled both Houses and the Democrats were essentially powerless. We controlled the Senate because we had 51 votes - a result that surprised the pundits in November 2006. Can you imagine the consternation of losing that - soon afterward as Nelson resigned and was replaced by a Republican? What would it have done Democratic enthusiasm.

One thing the change of the Senate could have impacted was that a version of Kerry/Feingold (Reid/Feingold) was included in a must pass defense bill - that Bush vetoed until it was taken out. It had the support of I thing 52 Senators - up from the 13 who voted for Kerry/Feingold in 2006. It's main goal was to get Bush to set a timeline for getting out of Iraq. Bush in 2008 did that in conjunction with Iraq - and it is that Bush plan that became the exit strategy that was just completed. McCain, by his own statements, would not have followed that route to get out, but it gave Obama some political cover. There is NO way a Republican controlled Senate would have pushed for setting a deadline to get out of Iraq.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. But let's not forget he was elected to represent the people, NOT the Democratic party

This seems lost on so many.

[Logical]

44. I agree. He was elected to represent the Red state of Nebraska. Which he did!

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. And if he hadn't represented Nebraska, he wouldn't have been re-elected.

The Democratic party doesn't vote for him.

[Logical]

50. I agree with you 100%. But it still does not make him a Dem. At all.

[RainDog]

19. yeah. it's the conservative voters that I hate

because they're the ones who elect conservative politicians.

[joshcryer]

22. I'm with you housewolf.

[CreekDog]

23. i absolutely could not stand him

but i recommended your post.

[ellisonz]

24. K & R

[Betty Karlson]

25. Well said.

Although the general opinion was, Nelson would be given a very tough run for his money in 2012.

[Tsiyu]

26. I can't believe ANY state is still red

After all the bullshit the Republicans have been up to.

I hope that even if a Republican gets his seat, other states gains will cover it. We can't stand to lose any Dems, unless and until we get a progressive, viable third party.

[etherealtruth]

28. I hear you housewolf

I remember the attitude when Bart Stupak announced he was retiring from congress. Folk expressed sentiments like: "Now we can get a "real" democrat (liberal) in office" ... "No more Dino's"

Unfortunately, in the area Stupak represented there was not "a snowball's chance in hell" that a liberal would be elected. He was replaced by a right wing nutjob (which surprised no one that knows the district.

Though I found many of Stupak's positions loathsome (particularly r/t abortion) ... his votes (~90%) with the Dem's are sorely missed.

The district is still represented by an anti-choicer (like Stupak) ...however, Dan Benisheck is a true nut job voting with the craziest of the right wing nuts 100% of the time.

This is a big step (jump) backwards

[PassingFair]

29. Yeah, well maybe the experience with "the craziest of right wing nuts" will cause blow-back.

That will have been WORTH IT to get Stupak out of office.

[etherealtruth]

31. I don't know

Stupak seems to have been elected because he was personally liked. I know much of his district (especially the UP) is populated by people that think very differently than the rest of the state. The western part of the lower peninsula (I have spent much of my life there) can be extremely fiscally conservative (Petoskey, Charlevoix, Harbor Springs).

Stupak is out of office, there has been no backlash against Banishek and his positions [guns, God and (anti)Gay]; there is big support for his positions.

I would love to have a liberal in all of the seats of the house and senate ... since this is not possible in some areas ...I am willing to be pragmatic and accept someone that votes ~90% with the democrats over someone that votes 90-100% with the repubs.

[PassingFair]

32. What positions does Banishek hold that Stupak didn't?

I don't forget that Stupak held the party HOSTAGE over
abortion during the Health Care debacle.

You guys have your work cut out for you, but the UP
generally votes democratic.

[etherealtruth]

33. Conservative dem

The UP is a very unique place ... they are truly inclined to vote for the person vs the party and are attracted to more socially conservative people. There has also been a swing right in current years

I never forget Stupak's position on abortion (my original post points out that I abhorred it) ... now we have Banishek (same position on abortion), but he votes with the republicans essentially 100% of the time (in contrast to Stupak who voted with the dem's ~90%)

What I see is no change on the issues I hold nearest and dearest (choice for women) ... and a swing to the right on all other positions.

As I recall the Democratic candidate for that seat was very anti-choice as well.

Its a net loss for me. There wasn't a pro-choice candidate ... and we lost all the things we agree with

[PassingFair]

35. You can work towards blow-back and a stealth pro-choice candidate.

You never stood a chance with Stupak, and he
was able to BLOCK legislation within our own
party that would have delineated our positions
nationally.

I'm sick of people saying that there is no difference
between democrats and republicans because we have
enough shit-heel democrats to blur the lines.

I'm tired of making excuses for Debbie Stabenow, too.

[etherealtruth]

36. I'm not making excuses ...

I actually hated Stupak ... knowing the area, I knew (OK no one knows, but I believed) that we were going to do much worse (i wish I had been wrong) I would LOVE to have liberal Dem's in all seats ... pragmatically it didn't seem possible.

The hope for that district is that a charismatic personally popular (and liberal) Democrat will run ... I fervently believe that district will look past single issues. Stupak was an example of this (to a degree) ... he was well liked personally, and his "more liberal" record on some issues was overlooked.

I don't make excuses for these folk ...but, I'm not willing to trade seats for people that vote (for all intents and purposes) in lock step with the Republicans (and worse with the "tea-bag wing&quot ... Stupak was punished ... OK ...but, we were punished more.

Pragmatism ... there are certain areas where the populace is simply not going to vote for a liberal.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. He supported a Constitutional amendment to oppose marriage equality

And he was not set to win anyway. Feh.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Same thing can be said about Dems in other states too.

Good post. Thanks.

[lunatica]

43. He opposes the most fundamental human rights

He knows better than women what is good for them. He doesn't believe in a woman's right to choose. And he's against marriage equality. What difference does it make if he votes with the Democrats when he doesn't believe whole swaths of the population have the right to even have rights? So for one vote that's good he continues to vote against anyone he disapproves of based on what? Lot's of Republicans do that. Fortunately not too many Democrats do it.

Dictating morality has profound consequences which affect society in negative ways. It fosters division and hatred. It discriminates against people for 'personal' reasons which are only important to the person doing the discrimination. It oppresses people, but not all people and it give power disproportionately to those who believe the oppression is a good and moral thing.

So the least that can be said about him is he's a mixed bag, except on the most fundamental rights human beings have in this Constitutionally based country.

edited to add the last sentence

[progressoid]

45. IF a Republican takes his seat???

I'd say that IF is a pretty likely yes. NE will go R next year.