I fell that if someone believes in God, goes

[frankieallen]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Raine1967 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

To church and tries to live their life the way their God would want them to, their beliefs should be respected, and especially, not ridiculed. I am an atheist, my mom is Christian, and she is the happiest most content person I have ever met. Sometimes I wish I was that content to be honest, I just can't get past the whole Adam and Eve, Noah and tha Arc, ect thing.

Edit:
Let me define what I mean by respected, I guess I wasn't clear.
I fell someone's right to be believe in whatever gives them hope, or makes them happy, should be respected, not ridiculed, was my point.

[tymorial]

1. Expect a strong reaction to your comment

And little agreement more than likely.

If we add that the individual in question does not force their beliefs onto others, then I would agree with you.

[frankieallen]

5. Agreed, thanks for pointing that out.

And I my case, my mom never tries to force her beliefs on anyone, although sometimes when I've had issues in the past (relationships, drugs, alcohol) she has suggested Jesus could help. I just smile and thank her. She really is a sweetheart.

[SouthernDemLinda]

49. We do not have to respect beliefs.

Separation of Church and State and the Establishment clause of the Constitution; prohibits the state from establishing a religion.

The Constitution prevents the government from supporting any religion, which they are doing, although it is unconstitutional. Also, the aspirations (on the part of some people) to force their religion on the entire nation, and other nations is unconstitutional.

Some theists don't just have "problems" with atheists; they attack people of other faiths, they all have "the one true faith", but they can't agree on a doctrine among themselves.

They should be straightening everyone else out?

Most atheists know too much about science to fall for their attempts to package their god in any scientific gap. They can't convince anyone with intelligence (atheists or not) that pseudo-science is science.

Many theists want to proselytize without any opposition, and they are proselytizing in most every venue without any opposition right now.

Atheists have the right as American citizens to speak about their non-belief, and very few
Christians or theists believe that they do.

There is no day of the week set aside to listen to atheist lectures, and there has been no national debate.

A theists insulting an atheist is not only common, but it's expected, and it's just based on what we don't believe.

Someone telling atheists that they can't offend "theists" because their beliefs have to be respected is just plain stupid.

Respect is earned not given, and it does not have to be given to anything that doesn't deserve their respect?

We do not have to respect beliefs. We only respect the right to have beliefs, and the same kind of respect (the right to non-belief) should be given to atheists, but it's not.

"A lie can circles the earth while the truth is still putting on it's pants." Winston Churchill

[rug]

56. I would characterize this post as recycled drivel, but that would be disrespectful.

[SouthernDemLinda]

62. Answer to a non-rebuttal from a troll

Clearly you don't have a rebuttal, but people like this troll around message boards looking for atheists to rid the world of them.

He's either really stupid, or really cowardly, otherwise there would be a rebuttal.

At least I can spell feel.

First he implies that what I wrote was not my own original thinking (quote) "I would characterize this post as recycled drivel, but that would be disrespectful."

Oh well, he wouldn't want to give us an example of exactly what I was writing about, now would he? And a rebuttal. His non-rebuttal "To each according to his need." It seems all he can do is imply and misquote it's "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Since when was Separation of Church and State, or the Establishment Clause of the Constitution one of Marx intended goals or slogans? That is what I was discussing.

Along with the fact that most theists do not have respect for other people's right not to be a theist, and one political party has been taken over by religious fundies (who don't respect anyone's rights) but they sure do want their own. Something most of us do know, but I'm the one writing about jt!

This is just another example of their inability to come up with a rebuttal; instead they criticize the opponent or cast aspersions on their character, ability or patriotism. You know, like Donald Trump calling Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders a communist and saying that Sanders supporters are ‘troublemakers’.

I said, "Religion is a tool to control the masses" I didn't say "Religion is the opium of the people", but while Marx was very critical of religion, he was also in some ways sympathetic. He never had to put up with right-wing nut fundies though.

I'm not at all sympathetic, I would say that the belief itself is a delusion. The belief that we should be waiting for a reward in another life instead of working for social justice, which might happen if the public understood it's the only life they will ever have.

[rug]

64. You labor under the illusion that anything you said warrants a rebuttal.

[gratuitous]

2. So what about the whole Adam and Eve, Noah and the Ark things bother you?

Are you familiar with the concepts of myth and legend, and how those narrative tools have been used throughout humanity's history to make sense of the world? Perhaps there's nothing more to the story of Noah and the ark except a primitive explanation for why rainbows appear.

[frankieallen]

8. I didn't say it bothered me, I just don't believe in

Fairy tails

[gratuitous]

11. I'm not trying to be confrontational

But what does it mean to you to "believe" in those stories? That you must believe them to be literally true? (Because, really, a lot of Christians don't think that.) Or that they have a truth to convey that isn't contingent on that point?

[frankieallen]

13. You seem to be complicating a simple point

I was trying to make. That the bible, that is the basis for Christian beliefs, is full of quite unbelievable stories (imho). I assume if you believe in God, and you study the bible, that you also take these stories literally.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

[gratuitous]

21. The point is anything but simple, and that confounds a lot of people

While there is a strain in Christianity called biblical literalism, it's really a very small portion of all of Christendom, though some of them are quite outspoken, for sure. No mainstream denomination believes all of the Bible to be literally true (though individuals or certain congregations might). Indeed, when pressed on the matter with specific passages, even the most dedicated biblical literalist will back down from an insistence on that position (cf. Psalm 91 verse 4, where God is depicted as protecting a person by covering him with his feathers and sheltering him with his wings; it would be a hardy literalist who insisted that God has wings and feathers, and I've never met one).

I'm comfortable saying that most Christians base their faith on four main standards: The Bible, tradition, individual experience, and congregational life. The balance among those four is what informs that faith, and a literal reading of the Bible isn't how most Christians believe. I'm not alone in asserting that biblical literalism is a form of idolatry, and does a grave disservice to both the Bible and the faith.

[Bluenorthwest]

70. Tradition? How does that rate any status? Traditional treatment of women? LGBT?

I hear 'Tradition' and I think 'our Heritage allows us to do this to you, our right is to make laws against you in the name of tradition'.

Tradition is a form of ancestor worship and rather specifically forbidden by your texts. 'My fathers did this, so I must do this' causes social and cultural stasis and it is why the more orthodox regions of the world are not leading innovators and creators of new ideas. They worship the old ideas, literally.

Tradition! Many Christians cite tradition as reason to continue injustices. One of our candidates rambles on claiming that marriage has always been the same, one man and one woman 'all through the midst of history'. Of course that candidate should know better as the Bible is full of group marriages and purchased 'wives' and that's the actual tradition.
Tradition is an excuse. Also, a heresy.

[gratuitous]

75. Tradition is used all the time

Yes, sometimes tradition is an excuse to justify a present injustice. It's at that point that the individual is obliged to speak up to the congregation or for a congregation to speak up within the denomination. Further study and discussion can end that injustice, particularly in congregational denominations. Changes in practice, policy or procedure in any large organization is a process. Hierarchical denominations can be more resistant to change, but when change does come under that model its effect is sweeping. Congregational denominations often effect change in a piecemeal fashion as a new practice takes hold.

Tradition informs many present practices (both inside and outside Christendom), that aren't oppressive or unjust. For example, congregations in the Church of the Brethren practice feet washing. It's mentioned in the Bible, but it's not an established tradition in most other denominations. At that, the practice of feet washing in the Church of the Brethren varies from congregation to congregation and even within congregations over time. Not every faith practice gets reinvented or refashioned with each passing year, and as practices are established, they gain the force of tradition over the years. It would be exhausting and paralyzing to a congregation to begin each day with a complete review of every practice. Yes, we're still going to have worship on Sundays; that's not something we're going to examine and reaffirm every week.

[cwydro]

3. Usually, religious folks are not ridiculed until they begin to impose their beliefs on others.

I don't care about anyone's faith, but I've no respect for religions that subjugate classes of people, or try to violently spread their beliefs.

[frankieallen]

15. You are talking about extremist Muslims I assume.

I agree totally, I was just talking about an old woman who reads religious books and enjoys going to church. I certainly don't respect a religion that stones people to death for adultry, or feels justified to kill anyone who doesn't believe in the right God

[annabanana]

23. Or extremist Christians, or extremist Jews, or

extremist Hindus, or extremist Buddhists, or extremist Zoroastrians, or extremist Jains

etcetcetc

fundamentalism is a cancer on the earth

[frankieallen]

28. Yes, those extremist Buddhists can be quite violent to non believers. And I hear the Hindus

Are preparing for world domination!

[annabanana]

30. oh ffs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

EVERYBODY'S got them

[cwydro]

37. Nope, I'm talking about any religion that tries to make others believe what they believe.

Period.

[Iggo]

4. I respect their right to have those beliefs, but I'll never respect those beliefs.

[maxsolomon]

6. But if you're an Atheist

then you don't think that God wants them to live their life in any particular way, because you don't think a diety exists to give that instruction.

I will tolerate religious belief, and as long as it doesn't directly cause harm, refrain from ridicule. But I do not have to respect it.

[SecularMotion]

7. I lose respect for the religious

when they don't respect the non-religious.

[SammyWinstonJack]

9. +1000000

[frankieallen]

14. And visa versa

[TreasonousBastard]

17. Yes!

[SouthernDemLinda]

50. Atheist are the most hated group in America.

If you point out the errors in their idiotic beliefs that require little intelligence to debunk, they claim that person is not respecting their beliefs.

Anyone who doesn't know that this argument is nonsense can't be very smart. Atheist are the most hated group in America. It is interesting that the barbs theists chunk at non-believers is really far truer of them.

A Supreme Being made them superior to everyone else on earth, but they are not egotistical jackasses?

I think giving credit for human achievement to someone's god diminishes the incredible things that man has achieved, and undermines their achievements.

Religion is a method of controlling the masses and undermining their independence and individuality, and that's all it is or ever will be, so just get over it.

[guillaumeb]

52. Perhaps some of the believers that you meet are actually responding to your own

contempt for people who do believe. Look at your language in this thread. You talk of idiotic beliefs, you state that believers cannot be very smart, believers are egotistical jackasses, undermining intelligence and individuality....

Is this an example of atheistic tolerance for others, or merely the counterpart to the intolerant believers that you complain about?

Before you remove the speck from your neighbor's eye perhaps you should remove the beam from your own.

[Bluenorthwest]

73. If you 'believe' only you know that. If you demonstrate your belief through action, others see that.

It is the religious person who has the command upon them to not judge others, to check their own speck, to turn the other cheek, to offer love when given hate. Atheists do not claim to believe those commands of Jesus. If the 'believer' does not follow them, why would I think they believe them?

Jesus very specifically told his followers that they would be persecuted and mocked for following him and he told them that when this happens they must 'rejoice and be very glad' and that one is blessed when people make fun of you for your faith. So one can ask why if the 'believer' believes Jesus, why is the 'believer' getting snarky when persecuted instead of rejoicing? You seem to give the actual teachings fully optional status, so why have a faith at all? 'Jesus said to rejoice but we want to have a tantrum instead.'

[TreasonousBastard]

16. How about the non-religious who don't respect the religious?

[SheilaT]

10. I'm glad that your mom is the happiest and most content

person you have ever met. I gather you attribute that completely and solely to her faith.

A surprising number of religious people I know are not at all happy, although I don't know just how much their faith plays into their unhappiness.

And as several others have already pointed out, a huge problem with religious folks is that they not only want to impose their own beliefs on us, but they refuse to give us the respect for our beliefs (or lack thereof) that they demand for themselves.

If your mother is simply a happy Christian who isn't at all bothered by those with different beliefs, I bet she and I would get along just fine. I likewise know any number of believers who live by their beliefs but don't seek to impose them on anyone else. And that's the way we should all be.

[thereismore]

12. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, sure! Born again atheist here. nt

[Matrosov]

18. No respect from me

One major problem is that many different people have many different ideas on how their deity wants them to live their life. Including some Jews who think their deity wants them to treat gentiles like dirt, some Christians who think their deity wants every homosexual strung up, and some Muslims who think their deity encourages them to beat or kill disobedient women.

Another major problem is that these reprehensible beliefs are in the major holy books. Of course, that doesn't mean every Jew, Christian, or Muslim actually believes in them, but if those beliefs are in the holy books and the holy books all claim to be the divine word, are those Jews, Christians, and Muslims who don't believe in them actually Jews, Christians, and Muslims?

I can maybe respect the beliefs of someone who believes in a higher power but doesn't adhere to any organized religion. On the other hand, someone who believes in a deity that is supposed to be all-loving and all-powerful on one hand and created all people, and yet on the other hand, wants you to treat certain groups of those people with hate and spite?

[MH1]

19. As long as they focus on living THEIR OWN life "correctly"

with minimal attempts to browbeat others, who may not have the same beliefs.

It's the browbeating and especially trying to change the laws of our secular society, that I have a problem with. I don't have much problem with people who don't engage in that. Of course, it bothers me a little when it extends to raising children as idiots, but usually that comes with the other stuff I have a problem with.

[frankieallen]

24. Well in all fairness, there is a lot of people raising their children as idiots where religion

Has nothing to do with it. I'm not talking about Jesus camps.

[trotsky]

20. There are religious people who think that dark skin is curse from god.

That belief gives them hope and makes them happy, that they are favored by god as opposed to the dark-skinned people of the world.

Should that belief be respected and not ridiculed?

[frankieallen]

22. I have no words for the stupidity of your post, you are just fishing for conflict.

I know an atheist who beats his wife, should atheists be respected and not ridiculed?
See how that works?

[trotsky]

25. You made a blanket, generalized statement calling for "respect" for religious beliefs.

I found an example that exposes its flaws. Sorry that it upset you so much.

[frankieallen]

31. Ya, sure you did.

[procon]

33. He makes a valid point.

You start out purporting to be an atheist seeking respect for religious people. Yet you will only accept certain faiths in your staunch catechism, while remaining quite intolerant of other people's beliefs. You even try to pack all Muslims in with the extremist factions to make them all look evil to fit your ridiculous narrative.

Once you start mocking other faiths and calling people names because they are skeptical of your position and called you out for being intolerant, your entire argument collapses into angy sputtering. You have a long way to go before you can honestly claim to be atheist.

[frankieallen]

35. after I saw " he makes a valid point" I stopped

Reading. It told me everything I need to know about you.

[procon]

39. And that's OK, because I am an atheist, and you can think however you'd like.

See how that works? Now just don't think you get a free pass to push it off on me.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

57. You made a perfectly valid point. This person clearly is incapable of

well-reasoned argument.

[lindysalsagal]

82. The point is that religion requires a total lack of reason. That's all I need to know

In order to see that there is nothing benign about belief in fairy tales:all of it relieves all believers of their responsibilities to other people and the environment.

As long as anyone thinks that there is a god who will fix everything, people will behave like children, abuse resources, abuse each other, and then claim "it's not fair that I didn't get mine."

Religion is a life of childishness.

Grown-ups wake up and ignore religion, and work to do right by each other.

I never respect religion.

[annabanana]

27. .

v

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

55. Oh man, I took the time to write a reply, when this gif did so much better

a job of saying what needed to be said!

[Matrosov]

40. Completely different things

Is wife beating an inherent part of atheism? Atheism is a lack of belief in a higher power, so which higher power would instruct that atheist to beat his wife? None, he's just an asshole, regardless of his religious beliefs.

Yet when it comes to Abrahamic religions, being an asshole is both justified and even encouraged by that higher power.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

54. Wow. Your apparent lack of logical thinking skills is truly breathtaking.

Your example is in no way equivalent to the well-reasoned argument made against what you "fell." If an atheist is beating his wife, it is not because beating his wife is a tenet of atheism to which the wife-beater is adhering.

Whereas the point you misjudge as "stupid" was regarding an actual belief put forth by some branches of Christianity.

But, never mind. You clearly are incapable of rational argument. I won't bother reading any more of your posts.

[TipTok]

60. The difference is that he does it because he chooses to...

The religious bigot is comfortable because their evil has been pre approved by an all powerful Gawd.

[stone space]

67. The rules for group responsibility vary from group to group.

I know an atheist who beats his wife, should atheists be respected and not ridiculed?

Reading DU, to a first approximation, it seems to work something like this:

If a white atheist beats his wife, he acts as an individual.

If a black atheist beats his wife, his actions reflect on all black folks, whether atheist or religious.

If a white Christian beats his wife, his actions reflect on all Christians, regardless of race.

If a black Christian beats his wife, his actions reflect on all black folks and on all Christians.

The rules for individual responsibility vs group responsibility can get complicated, but reading DU can help to sort it all out.

[wendylaroux]

26. I feel the same way,to each his own.Just don't use religion as a weapon.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

29. Some of the best people I know are devoutly religious. Now most religious people

fall into another category, but hell yes, as long as the person never passes judgement and only shows love.

Sure.

[Major Nikon]

32. Ridiculing a viewpoint is not the same as ridiculing a person who may subscribe to that viewpoint

If religious people are free to promote their viewpoints, as they should be, then others should also be free to promote opposing viewpoints, up to and including ridicule.

If people want to use biblical passages to justify all sorts of hate, then it should be pointed out that one can also find hilarious stories of a talking donkey from that same reference material.

[Throd]

34. As an atheist, as long as they mind their own business, I don't resent religious people.

[csziggy]

36. There is a group for this kind of discussion

The post pinned at the top of the General Discussion Forum (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978):

The Statement of Purpose for the General Discussion forum says this:

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum. Conspiracy theories and disruptive meta-discussion are forbidden.

[kentauros]

38. I wouldn't call that a "discussion" group though

[csziggy]

41. I just edited my message to a quote of the Statement of Purpose for GD

Too many of the subjects that are supposed to be banned in GD keep showing up here.

I dislike alerting on a post just because it's in the wrong area but there are places to put those posts where they won't get ridiculed.

[kentauros]

42. I agree with that.

The Religion forum, however, is a place where topics like this one will get ridiculed. Most of the other groups under the umbrella of Religion & Spirituality would be more appropriate and more likely to get a decent and non-judgmental discussion going

[csziggy]

44. I realized that I wasn't sure of the "best" place for the OP

Since I avoid religion like the plague and don't go to any of the groups under the umbrella that is linked in the Statement of Purpose. So I edited to quote it.

[kentauros]

47. I would also recommend the OP to try this topic in one of the other groups.

Not just for the violation of the SOP here, but GD usually ends up turning such "discussions" into fights with a heaping helping of ridicule, just as is happening in it now.

So, OP, have a look at the other viable groups more appropriate to this topic, self-delete here, and post there, please

[ohnoyoudidnt]

43. Yeah, the problem is a lot of nasty bigots believe the same things.

Calling out their beliefs for the illogical jokes that they are is a common way of criticizing them.

[demwing]

45. Up to the point where their beliefs start to interfere

Last edited Fri May 27, 2016, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)

with other peole's lives, right?

Right?

[U4ikLefty]

79. BAM!!!

I don't care if you worship at the CFSM, as long as you respect others' rights.

[roamer65]

46. If a Christian follows the true teachings of Jesus...

they are filled with love and compassion, not spite and hate.


That is all I need to say.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

65. Really? How about some of the other teachings of Jesus in the Gospels?

Matthew 5:17 new international version

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."


Oh, so Jesus has no problem with a grumpy, sociopathic, mass murdering god who kills all humans and starts over when they mess up and don't act the way he wants them to?

Matthew 10:34:
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."


Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;…law against her mother-in-law. 36A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;…


Luke 12:51:-53
"Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on, five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”…

[malaise]

48. I hate to be the grammar police but could you make that feel and not fell n/t

[Electric Monk]

63. Poe's law, exhibit N

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

[RKP5637]

51. Be aware, religion is just another form of politics! n/t

[SusanCalvin]

78. Good point. nt

[Albertoo]

53. Why should false beliefs be respected? Is 2+2 equal to 5?

Besides, the happy, gentle believers in falsehoods are the sea where the fundamentalists and radicals swim, giving them cover.

Without the millions of happy and gentle Catholics, the Roman Catholic Church would e powerless to stop Africans from using condoms vs HIV.

Without the millions of happy and gentle Muslims, the religious morality police would be powerless to beat students for celebrating their graduation (or hang gays)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/middleeast/iranian-students-lashes-party.html?_r=0

[Jeffersons Ghost]

58. In the Constitution, hanging gays, burning witches & condemning Christians, Jews or Muslims is wrong

It also violates essential DU rules.

[Albertoo]

59. Speaking of which, Saudi Arabia recently executed a witch on religious grounds

But we shouldn't blame the religion of Islam for having induced that.
They were misguided. The religion itself is very OK. Not all Muslims kill witches.
----------------------
----------------------
**fill in more excuses for religion here**
----------------------
----------------------

[U4ikLefty]

81. The number four is the creation of the devil.

Heathen!!!

[TipTok]

61. They are free to do what they like... As adults... And in their own life...

I'll fill their kids head with science and logic first chance I get though.

Willful ignorance is a reality of this world but I'll do my bit to stamp it out given the opportunity.

[Solly Mack]

66. I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows

Or not.

[KG]

68. cool story, bro.

[Jesus Malverde]

69. Religion topics are banned in gd...nt

[B Calm]

71. I'm surprised it has survived this long.

[Jesus Malverde]

72. They're too busy looking for other keywords..nt

[usedtobedemgurl]

74. This post creates so much sadness in me.

You state "Sometimes I wish I was that content to be honest, I just can't get past the whole Adam and Eve, Noah and the Arc, etc. thing." It seems you feel you could only be as happy and content as your mom if you were religious. In life you must find happiness from the inside. Here is something I hope will help you on your journey:

There Is No God

Penn Jillette

I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy — you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.

*******************************************************************************

Have a wonderful journey and I hope you find happiness. Just because one person finds happiness in God, drugs, sex, or making paper airplanes, it does not mean you need to as well. I think the above piece shows that you can be happy being the best person you possibly can be.

Namaste.

[tazkcmo]

76. I agree

Until those beliefs effect my life and others' lives. An example would be school prayer.

[SusanCalvin]

77. I would not do that to anyone's face unless they got in mine first.

But, in general, yeah, I will ridicule it. Or at least state that I find it weird and scary.

[U4ikLefty]

80. Please don't fell.

It hurts your head.

[Raine1967]

83. Locking. This post belongs in on of our religion groups.

from the GD pinned topic: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978

RELIGION Threads about current events related to religion, and threads about church-state issues are permitted under normal circumstances.

Threads about the existence/non-existence of God, threads discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of religion in general, and threads discussing the truth/untruth of religious dogma are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted under Religion.

Open discussion of religion is permitted during very high-profile news events which are heavily covered across all newsmedia.

Please consider reposting in one of the groups linked.

Thank you for understanding,

Raine