The people who complain about their taxes getting stuff for poor people

[DonCoquixote]

Are very often the same people who do not complain when some Multi-Millionaire shovels money into a tax shelter so that they can buy a fifth house

are the same people who do not realize that if it was not for stuff bought with taxes: the roads, the public schools, Medicare, etc, that the economy would be pathetic, and that their cushy job would very likely not be there.

are the same people that would be the first to get killed off if they were ever dropped into the libertarian paradises they praise

and finally,

they are the ones who are the parasites, who want the benefits of being American, something that thousands of people literally die in order to get, but do not want to pay one red cent towards them.

[StarTrombone]

1. The only people I know who have 5 or more houses

Are John Kerry and Michael Moore

There are probably many more and I'm sure you don't mean those 2

[tonyt53]

2. So, you know them. Can you get me their autographs? Oh, Kerry married into the money.

What proof do you have that Moore has more than one home?

[StarTrombone]

5. It was revealed in his divorce proceedings

You could look it up

And Kerry marrying into the money, after ditching the 1st wife who put him through law school, makes him exempt then

[Tikki]

11. Some people have 5 houses..4 of them may be called rental income, hardly millionaires.

And speaking of ditching a first wife...the list is exhaustive among both party lines. Look it up, starting under Gingrich.


Tikki

[LanternWaste]

3. I'd cower behind implication as well

I'd cower behind implication as well if I lacked the courage to directly state my own premise. I'd also pretend two examples are the only ones I'm aware of to place a more dramatic emphasis on my allegation, regardless of our sincerity or truthfulness.

I think it's great you know Moore and Kerry though. Pass along my regards!

[Bluenorthwest]

6. John McCain has 8 houses, although when asked during his campaign he was unsure of the total

the press followed up. It was 8. Eight. Don't you remember that? Mitt has four, but what a four they are, everyone recalls the car elevator of course. That was in La Jolla.

[StarTrombone]

9. McCain and Romney are fucking Republicans

It's expected

[tenderfoot]

57. I don't think you're interested in what the op had to say

and just want throw sand around like a petulant child.

Have fun with that.

[lewebley3]

12. Its the GOP that are always attacking the poor and complaining about taxes

[zentrum]

15. So what?

They are not at all against paying taxes.

The post is not anti-wealth. It's about wealthy people who refuse to give back to the country.

[DonCoquixote]

25. thank you z

If you can PAY YOUR TAXES and OBEY THE LAWS, then knock yourself out. Buy a City if you wish..but do not take money from the mouth of the country that allowed you to be wealthy.

[Enthusiast]

37. Plus won!

[lapislzi]

16. Isn't that cute.

I think you may have stumbled into the wrong forum. No harm, no foul! Bye, now!

[cannabis_flower]

21. Hey, John McCain famously

didn't know how many houses he had when he was running for president.

[AlbertCat]

22. You forgot John McCain....

..... if he can remember, I'm sure it was more than 5.

[Agnosticsherbet]

27. Romney is another, though I don't know him.

[jamal49]

34. Get out much?

Obviously, you either don't get out much or don't know many people. The point of all this is that Michael Moore and John Kerry probably pay their fare share of taxes. The ones being obliquely referred to are the 1% who probably pay no taxes, abuse tax laws to shelter their monies offshore, etc. If you don't get the theme, don't post.

[Enthusiast]

35. Liberals are hypocrites? That is your message?

If I remember correctly John McCain couldn't even quote the number of homes he owned but would settle on six, not sure if he was right.

[klook]

47. "Limousine liberals!"

Yeah, that's the problem...

[Mira]

48. There is so much more in the post than what you chose

to nitpick about. It looks like an ad hominem approach to the reading of it and I feel a bit silly even responding. I heard Michael Moore speak about an apartment in New York, and another in Michigan by the way, and John Kerry's wife is a rich heiress.

The tacky and tasteless, real and fake gold dripping primary residences of the likes of Ben Carson, Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump are more what the post referred to.

[MH1]

50. Well, aren't you special. nt.

[tenderfoot]

56. I know people like that too and they NEVER whine about having to pay taxes.

eom

[coco77]

58. Are they the only ones you know ..

because they are Democrats?

[The2ndWheel]

4. People who complain about their taxes do it because they have little say

in where that money goes. Whether it's to poor people, or giant defense contractors, everyone would like more control in how their tax money is spent. Few people have that kind of say though, and so complain about whatever it is that they don't like. Yeah, a lack of roads would make the economy suck. The lack of a global military funded by just American tax payers because the UN is a toothless organization wouldn't allow any Americans, a small percentage of the global population, to enjoy the kind of lives we have either.

Plus, as long as people are just complaining, who cares? Their tax money still goes to the government, so their personal opinions mean little.

Everyone likes big government when it's about something they like that the government does, and everyone wants government out of their business when it's about something they don't like that it does. Like anything else in life, it's subjective. It's a human institution created by humans, so everyone will see what they want to see in it.

[Phentex]

7. That sums it up nicely...

everyone is fine with taxes as long as they are spent the way they want them spent.

[Fumesucker]

10. But the phrase "free stuff" only comes up when speaking of benefits to low or middle income folks

[lewebley3]

14. Nothing is free: but the budget priories choices are skewed to the wealthy 1%:

they received the benefits because people don't vote, especially the
young and poor.

[DonCoquixote]

31. and our elections system is skewed

against the poor and young. Ever wonder why all the vote challenges are either college students,or agsints anyone who cannot get a driver's license?

[lewebley3]

62. The young don't vote: that is why it skewed: Sanders doesn't tell them it hardwork

over years and years: He says its free and we will have revolution: Which
is not going happen.

[Enthusiast]

38. Plus won!

[The2ndWheel]

61. Of course

If you're for something, you focus on the positives. If you're against it, you focus on the negatives. Who makes an argument for things they don't like by focusing on all the good parts of the other side?

[lewebley3]

13. The GOP people don't believe they owe this country anything: even when they

claim to be patriot's: There is nothing Christian about the GOP, they use
Christianity as campaign bumbler sticker but they could care less about
the poor if it comes out of their pocket.

[DonCoquixote]

26. ok here is where that falls

If you are calling for low taxes just to keep that money, you are NOT just targeting the B whatever bomber, you ARE also targeting the poor and middle class who have less say in the matter because they cannot hire Tax lawyers.

[The2ndWheel]

60. Every argument has a hole in it somewhere

There are 7+ billion people on the planet. Some of us will care about other people, and some of us won't. Doesn't change the basic fact that people want not only more say in where and how their money gets spent, but also just want more money. The ethics and morals come later, and that's where the subjective disagreements come along with the heat of 1000 suns.

[sorefeet]

8. Like the guy I know who spent

11 years in prison not counting all the jails and public defenders that tax payers had to pay, plus the terror and damage he did
(violence). But he told me he was sick of his tax dollar supporting welfare bums.
The guy who hates socialism, but within two weeks of moving to Ohio he was on Ohio Medicaid. I know lots of hypocrites.

[lapislzi]

17. Unfortunately, bringing public schools into the debate is a no-no

The tax haters hate public schools with a fury.

I try to stick with things I might be able to get them to agree to, like safe medicine and food.

[jtuck004]

18. And we educated most all of them. n/t

[Stonepounder]

19. I completely agree with this post.

I see so many posts of people ranting about 'their tax dollars going to people getting Food Stamps' so they can eat lobster. Or the 'lazy welfare cheats'. I have a family member who gets a large tax credit for 'Head of Household' and also a big chunk from Social Security for her kids because she is a widow who works as an aide in a Doctor's office making about $12.00/hr who rants about 'welfare cheats using her tax dollars'. And she doesn't see anything odd about her argument.

[w0nderer]

33. even sadder is the amount of people on this forum(DU in general)

that post and complain about taxes helping poor and working poor

[Enthusiast]

39. Some of them aren't people.

[w0nderer]

51. LOL n/t

[Major Nikon]

20. How you can tell you're being manipulated

...is when you find yourself attacking those below you on the social ladder and adoring those above you.

[kairos12]

24. Called talking man to a mouse and

mouse to a man.

[Enthusiast]

40. Plus won!

[ancianita]

23. Right on. These are voters who have to be reckoned with. They are the big part of

political audiences and they have to get their heads "adulterized."

[Faux pas]

28. Kickin' for the truth!

[Octafish]

29. A picture is worth a thousand journalists...

Slap-in-the-Face Wealth Gap Images

by Paul Buchheit
Published on Monday, December 01, 2014 by Common Dreams

Just 70 individuals now own as much wealth as half the world. In the U.S., the richest 40 individuals own as much as half the country, and the 16,000 American households in the top .01% have accumulated an average net worth of over a third of a billion dollars. As extreme wealth continues to grow out of control, inequality worsens for the rest of us, plaguing our country and our world, spreading like a terminal form of cancer. It should be a major news item in the mainstream media. But the well-positioned few are either oblivious to or uncaring about its effect on less fortunate people.

The data and charts (citations here) come from Forbes, Credit Suisse, and a recent study by Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman.

1. Just 70 Individuals Own As Much Wealth As Half the World



halftheworld.jpg

Less than a year ago, Oxfam reported that the richest 85 individuals owned as much wealth as half the world. But recently updated calculations reveal that the richest 70 individuals now own $1.842 trillion, more than the poorest half of the world.

We're drawing nearer to the fulfillment of Charles Koch's dream: "I want my fair share and that's all of it."


2. Just 40 Americans Own As Much Wealth As Half the United States



40americans.jpg

About a month ago it was 43, and a month before that it was 47. Now the richest 40 Americans (The Forbes 40) own a little over $1.092 trillion, about the same, according to calculations based on Credit Suisse data, as the poorest half of the country.

The national wealth that was created by all of us over many decades is quickly being redistributed to fewer and fewer incomprehensibly rich people.


One of the causes for this pathological transfer of wealth is revealed in the final image..

3. Stock/Equity Wealth of the Richest 12,000 Households Has Surpassed the Housing Wealth of 108,000,000 Households



stockequity.jpg

Just 35 years ago, the percentage of national wealth in middle-class housing (net of mortgages) was about seven times more than the percentage of national wealth in equities owned by the .01% (12,000 families). Now middle-class housing is only about half the value of those equities.

Saez and Zucman report that the total of corporate equities, bonds, and savings deposits owned by the .01% amounted to 2.2 percent of total U.S. household wealth in the mid-1980s, rising to 9.9 percent in 2012. Meanwhile, housing for the bottom 90% dropped from 15 percent of total household wealth to 5-6 percent. Since the bottom 50%, according to the authors, own almost zero wealth, the housing figures pertain to the 50-90% families, which can be described as "middle class."


Possible solutions are becoming clearer:

(1) A Financial Speculation Tax to slow down the flow of money to the takers

(2) Occupy Wall Street, Phase II

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License

Paul Buchheit is a college teacher, an active member of US Uncut Chicago, founder and developer of social justice and educational websites (UsAgainstGreed.org, PayUpNow.org, RappingHistory.org), and the editor and main author of "American Wars: Illusions and Realities" (Clarity Press). He can be reached at [e-mail].

SOURCE w/links to details: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/12/01/slap-face-wealth-gap-images

[Enthusiast]

41. Plus won!

[Triana]

30. I know some of them who are very religious too.

They call their selfish asses "Christian" - but will harp endlessly on how they don't want to have to pay for "other people's" healthcare or how min wage workers shouldn't be paid a living wage.

Pfft.

[w0nderer]

32. xposted to 'working poor' for more visibility

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12841065

Thx DonCoquixote

[Dragonfli]

36. It appears I am not the only one deeply pissed off and irritated by "rich 'splainin'"

I often resist the urge to poorsplain to the obviously financially secure posters here that keep telling us how well we are all doing, how we are in recovery, how we are on the right track.

What about access to not worrying about your electricity being cut off because you are juggling bills?
What about access to a dignified, well-funded mass transit system?
What about access to education and opportunity?

Are questions I ask on a daily basis, and what might shock some of the cheerleaders here is that those are the most common thoughts to enter the minds of the average American in this day and age, yes, I said average, but it really is more like the majority of Americans. The majority of us have been left behind in an economy where we lose more each day as the well to do gain more each day, what makes matters worse is that we no longer appear to have much in the way of representation no matter how we vote.

I would give what little remains of my life for a party of the people, a labor party, a party that is concerned about the rising and rampant poverty all around the insulated bubbles of the few remaining middle class members that love to tell me how great we are doing, how progressive our party is, how our leaders "feel our pain".

I would poorsplain to them what the true reality is as a party that once represented the people has for the past thirty years abandoned us to decay as a people as completely as they have abandoned the crumbling bridges roads and empty factories that once were the life blood of a people first marginalized, then ignored, and now completely invisible. - it is as if the majority of Americans do not exist.

I would do this splainin' but such is condescension and anger does not translate well as condescension but rather rage repressed becomes expressed, and this insulated bubble of cheerleading "sports team" enthusiasts that do not have the worries of the common man are quite fragile and easily offended, they would ban me from this site were I to attempt to poorsplain to them the nature of the reality of the suffering all around them they are blind to as my condescension would turn to rage before the first paragraph were completed.

You see, it is not just the rich that keep 'splainin to us "how we need to be" to not be struggling and losing, but also those that carry their water from the insulated middle class that are the only ones spoken to by our representatives, the house servants to the rich that exist within our party that are skeeved out by a class they fear they will one day join if they don't ally themselves to the rich splaining servants of the upper crust that call themselves representatives to the people.

If any of them truly cared about anyone but themselves, if any of them cared about most of their fellow citizens, they would not cheer on and idolize those that have shaped a party that once served the people into a golem fit only to further enrich the already rich using nothing more than soft rhetoric and broken promises to the middle class that carry their water while ignoring the rest, the majority, the struggling .... the invisible that are losing or have lost everything to policies chosen by those that they swoon over and adore as if they were teenagers smitten by a heart throb.

There are exceptions within these insulated bubbles of middleclassdom that do see us and do see with deeper insight how their class too shall fall to the greed of the wealthy that own our representatives, there are exceptions as well within our representative bodies that can see the invisible majority, they are the ones that have my respect as advocates that show true empathy and disgust at the indefensible state we find ourselves in and who would, like statesmen of a time now past, attempt to effect change that will perhaps not make the majority wealthy, but at least comfortable enough to survive without the constant dread of becoming homeless and dead. But alas, they need no one to explain to them because they already have eyes to see.

To the rest, you are cowards or complicit idiots that perhaps feel you will one day rise above your middle class status to trample us beneath your feet like the heroes you idolize that have brought this country to a state where an economic recovery is now defined as the rich gaining much more of the monetary resources they will never need or likely spend while the majority fall further into poverty. House servants are what they are, and could only maybe learn from working in the fields for a bowl of gruel and a hope that the next day they will be able to break their backs yet again for yet one more bowl, one more day alive. I do not respect such individuals and attempts to 'poorsplain to them would more likely result in a lynch mob directed towards me than a change of mind or heart.

This is a bad day today (as perhaps evidenced by my lengthy rambling response), one more acquaintance went homeless today and we are all of us trying to help around here but with little success save temporary floor accommodations and calls to the mostly ineffective representatives that work within a tattered and barely existent safety net apparatus ravaged a few decades ago with bi-partisan support and a well adored sports team favorite named Clinton.

[DonCoquixote]

42. I will see that and raise you.

The fact is, this economy shows that what used to be middle class really was not. I could talk about how many of the old jobs that gave a paycheck and pension were just jobs unions protected, that the jobs that got you that car and house were still working class, as opposed to the way the middle class is defined by Marxists. Joe six-pack is not a European burgher, and America spent a lot of time trying to convince him he was, that he was a future millionaire in waiting, as Steinbeck put it. No, what is really telling is that a lot of the diploma carrying professionals are now not even remotely as secure as they used to be. If their job was not outsourced, they have the honor of living in some gentrified neighborhood which previously was a ghetto, and paying an outrageous rent that could buy a small farm elsewhere, but would leave them without a way to get to their jobs, even with a commute most busdrivers would balk at. The thing the would be middle class and/or pseudo intellectuals who do support whoever lowers taxes omit is that soon, even the luckiest , the millionaires, are low on the totem pole, just the last by of food for the billionaires. Even Hillary might find that her friends are not so postal, to say nothing of the Republicans who are still suckung their thumb wondering why the media anointed Trump instead of the usual suspects, hey Jen, they do not need to anymore!!

[Enthusiast]

43. Plus won! Well said, Dragonfli!

[w0nderer]

49. +1 this..so much this n/t

[quaker bill]

44. "they" are not as good as "me"

"They do not deserve"....

"They should be working - - have fewer kids - - get off drugs - - be responsible"

Why this stuff works for them is that it is all said from a position of assumed moral superiority. In short, they feel bigger and more important saying it.

If you meet the people actually getting these benefits, most are hard working and easily as moral as anyone saying this.

[Doctor_J]

45. It's basically just freepers and Clinton supporters

They are authoritarian personalities, so should the next leader they worship be less conservative, they might go back to being kind.

[MH1]

52. Are you saying "Clinton supporters are authoritarian personalities"?

Because that's what it seems to me you are saying.

Oh and "just like freepers".

Nice wide brush you have there.

[Doctor_J]

54. Read Bob altmeyers book on authoritarian personalities. It's free and downloadable

You'll be stunned at how his description fits Clinton supporters and other conservatives. And if you don't like being compared to freepers, don't complain about universal healthcare and free education

[athena]

59. Open your eyes and look around you.

The real world out there does not always work according to the ideas in your head and the books you choose to read. It's better to live in the real world, accepting its complicated realities, than to reassure yourself that you belong to an intrinsically superior class of person based purely on the politician you have chosen to support.

[ananda]

46. Also, it's so hypocritical.

As is the case with my Texas family.

When they were poor, they took everything the
government had to offer.

[liberal N proud]

53. Irony!

[McKim]

55. The Anti Tax People are Destroying this Country

The anti tax people are what is wrong with this country. The selfishness and greed that has become so fashionable and acceptable the last three decades is hurting us all. I try to blog everywhere saying that it is my joy to contribute to the Common Good and pay for civilization. Talk right back to them. Expose them for what they are.