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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDisparaging terms to both men and women here...
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by one_voice (a host of the General Discussion forum).
Are fucking unacceptable. It doesn't stop people from using the term BernieBros all day long. And yes...that's an offensive term.
Let me relate some shit to you all to point out a major double standard here and in society:
Two years ago, my wife embarked on an affair with a wealthy man. I was monogamous for the entirety of our 12 year relationship. I adored her. Told her constantly. Worshipped the ground she walked on. Bragged about her constantly. But I unfortunately didn't have the money that this man had. I met him years ago and had a business that was very relevant to his occupation and wealth.
Welp...she ran off with him. He wanted discounts I couldn't give him through my business...so he started fucking my wife to get even more discounts.
So here's my point...when I relate this story to many women, the replies I tend to get are, "What did you do to fuck up the marriage?" or "some women are strong and independent.".
What? Fuck you. If I went out and cheated on my wife for financial gain...you know how society would treat me? No one would call me strong or independent or ask her what she did to fuck up the marriage.
It's a double standard. It is not right.
Earlier...I used the term "Misandrist" and was scoffed at by a female poster. Fuck you. You don't think it exists? Well I'm living the double standard everyday. People just automatically believe that if this happened to me...it must be my fault because I'm a man.
And that's just wrong.
In the end, as soon as divorce paperwork was filed, the wealthy man dumped my ex. She lives in her parents basement now way outside the city. She signed over our house in Denver to me on the belief she was going to live with this guy. Amazingly, I feel sad for her.
But that's whatever. Having to hear people ask me what I did to deserve this treatment?...Well...that's some double standard crap. It certainly takes two to fuck up a marriage. I'm an adult. I understand But when someone justifies my ex-spouses behavior simply because I'm the male component...well I'm here to tell you...misandry DOES indeed exist. Just like misogyny. It's not something you can poo poo away because you heard some Neanderthal use it as some point.
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Tal Vez
(660 posts)I've always been convinced that there are some men who can't be trusted and there are some women who can't be trusted. And, it's not always easy to spot them sufficiently early to avoid being victimized. I don't know if female rats need or deserve a term to describe them that is different from the term used to describe male rats, but you deserve to believe whatever might make you fell better about what happened.
athena
(4,187 posts)First of all, you greatly underestimate what misogyny is. Misogyny is not just a matter of people using disparaging terms to refer to women. If you were a woman, you would realize that misogyny goes way beyond words. You would find that you don't get promoted for the same level of work that gets your male colleagues promoted. You would learn that speaking your mind in a meeting, the same way your male colleagues do, results in a bad review or even a reprimand. The tiniest bit of anger or irritability you showed in the workplace would get you labeled as "unprofessional" or "out of control". People would dismiss your comments and ideas, and then applaud them when later made by a male coworker. You would get paid less than your male coworkers doing the same job. And you would find that it takes a lot more money, time, and thought to present what is considered a professional appearance when you're a woman than when you're a man. (It actually goes way beyond all this, but I don't want to take the discussion too far off topic.)
Words hurt. But if words spoken by a handful of people are all you have in your argument that the world is a misandristic place, all you're demonstrating is that you have not actually bothered to listen to feminists.
Feminists have always known that sexism hurts men as well as women. The same system that says women are valued for their appearance and must spend time making themselves beautiful says that men can't dress and present themselves the way they wish. The same system that devalues women for supposedly being emotional and fickle forces men to miss out on what an emotionally fulfilling life could bring them. The same system that says women's real job is to bear and raise children robs men of the close relationships they could have with their children. Sexism hurts women more than men, but it hurts men, too. Just the same way that racism hurts minority races most but also hurts the majority race in subtle ways the majority does not always realize. Instead of declaring that misandry is the problem, try to see that sexism, the way it is practiced by our society, hurts everyone and that it's in your own best interest to fight it.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)The succinctness and clarity of your post is almost as good as its content.
"try to see that sexism, the way it is practiced by our society, hurts everyone and that it's in your own best interest to fight it..."
Bravo. Just bravo!!
blue neen
(12,465 posts)Thank you. 
athena
(4,187 posts)
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Sexism hurts society across the board.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Disparaging terms to both men and women here are fucking unacceptable..." sounds contrite until we read this you wrote: "Don't pull the "it's sexist" card now. Makes you seem like a bitch..."
How do you reconcile holding others to a higher standard than you yourself employ?
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)I just got off the phone with my mother. She's a psychoanalyst. I told her the same thing. The first thing she said was, " Well you were raised by me and two other feminists. For people just to assume you're misogynistic because your a male is proposterous. You are not a misogynist not have you ever been. Anybody that treats you in that manner, you need to turn it around and ask them why they think THEIR behavior towards you is acceptable.".
She went on to confirm that in her practice she occasionally sees the double standard herself.
I do not deny that misogyny is very pervasive in our society. And that is wrong. Very very wrong. What I'm saying is that there are many men in society that are not misogynistic and the reverse behavior is not okay simply because society has partaken in this misogynistic behavior.
It's wrong to act in a misogynistic manner. It's wrong to act in a misandrisitic manner. The presence of one does not make the other acceptable.
I want to note that I'm glad we can have this discussion in a civil manner. It's discussions like this that has kept me at DU for 12 years.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You denounce people for actions which you yourself engage in. That is the very definition of holding others to a higher standard than you hold yourself to. 
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)and pass judgment from reality.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)An observation is not a judgement. Regardless, I avoid getting to know people who toss around the word "bitch" yet become incensed and offended by BernieBros, as it (again) accurately illustrates a person who holds others to higher standard than they hold themselves to.
athena
(4,187 posts)For example, in societies where sexism is even stronger than it is in the U.S., women, when they're among themselves, will say things that are extremely disparaging of men. Women will believe, for example, that a man is stronger, and that one absolutely needs a man as head of household to deal with certain problems, but they will also believe that women are wiser than men, and that men are almost childlike in their lack of common sense. You can call that misandry, but it's really a coping mechanism. Humans seem to resist the idea that they are intrinsically inferior to others. If they accept that they are inferior in some way, they will believe they are superior in another way. Remove the misogyny, and the misandry will disappear. Trying to fight misandry directly won't work because you're fighting a symptom and ignoring the cause. And going on about misandry only annoys women who have to deal with misogyny on a daily basis.
By the way, I find it a bit simplistic to say that some people are misogynists and others are not. We all live in a sexist and racist society. It would be inhuman to be totally uninfluenced by our environment. Regardless of our gender and race, we all have sexist and racist tendencies. (I don't mean that women are misandrists and men are misogynists, and that whites are biased against blacks and blacks against whites. Take a look at this.) Accepting this is the only way to fight it.
P.S. Someone once told me something very valuable: that when people talk, they usually talk about themselves. So the person who said your wife was "strong and independent" for leaving you might be in an unhappy relationship that she's having trouble ending. So perhaps you shouldn't take it personally.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)If so, this thread is meta.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Is offensive.
On that point I will not budge.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)OK.
Meta.
What reply would you like from me?
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Offensiveness (in both cases Google's headline definitions :
bro/brō/
noun
1.short for brother.
2.a male friend (often used as a form of address).
hooch·ie/ˈho͞oCHē/
noun
a young woman who has many casual sexual partners or who dresses or behaves in a sexually provocative way.
So a very clear distinction with a positive/neutral male term and derogatory female term.
Currency/vernacular:
Bernie Bros 22.3 million hits with early hits on page 1 from responsible sources like The Atlantic and Salon, showing widespread mainstream currency
Hillary Hoochie: 504,000 hits with ZERO on page 1 that actually use it as a compound term, and most not even related to Clinton at all, showing no currency or responsible usage.
So yah, not the same thing.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Since its Hillary supporters using the term BernieBros...do you suppose they're using it as a compliment or a pejorative?
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Anybody who has spent even a week in the UK or Australia among regular folks knows that they use the C word as a friendly greeting, but you still can't use it with impunity here or among feminists elsewhere even if you are British or Australian, because it has clear and obvious misogynistic implications. Just like every other rap song is n-r this and n-r that. Doesn't mean the use is not racist here. The word "Bro" has absolutely no such negative loading making it prima facie prejudiced against men. Hoochie on the other hand... And that's before we even start looking at the difference between biased terms applied to people who as a group have different levels of institutional power. I'm about as far from a SJW as can survive on this site but even I know "dick" and "pussy" are not equally loaded insults simply because they refer to analogous body parts, and I know why. Maybe those feminist parents might need to cover that again.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)"Bro" is 100% an insult. My friends own businesses in the entertainment district (S. Broadway). The term is used for dumb males...usually of the fraternity type that have invaded the area. Meatheads. Of course it's not just applied to that region of Denver.
There are certainly other terms that are used. But I can assure you, calling someone a "bro" is very insulting. It's implying someone is a dumb,
Misognist, meathead.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)You're still using something regional to define what you assume is international.
People call me bro all the time. I find it about as offensive as Spanish speaking people calling me 'friend' not offensive at all.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)There is, however, no question that "BernieBros" is not used as a term of endearment. It's used as a way to insult people. Of that, no one can argue.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)It's only the degree of 'offensiveness' that's in dispute. I always assumed that it's because so many Bernie supporters are men who don't like the idea of a woman president.
Truthfully though, I haven't seen it a lot. I'm not around here as much because the primary season has been ugly.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)She'd win my vote over Bernie. It would be difficult because I admire and respect both very much. I could almost decide between the two with a coin flip. I believe, and not to sound ageist, that the fact that she's younger may very will be the deciding factor...IF it were Bernie and Warren.
But it's not. It's Hillary. For me it has nothing to do with her gender. I agree that it's time for a woman president. I, however, do not believe Hillary should be that woman. Why? I don't agree with her centrist views. When someone tells me that Single Payer will never happen...I believe her that it will never happen under her administration. To that end, I also don't agree with her "can't do" attitude.
Female or male, white or black, jew or gentile matters not in regards to my vote. I want the best person for the job. And I don't think Hillary is that person.
And yes...very ugly. No hides or flags in 11 1/2 years. Last two months? I've had nearly a dozen. A few of them deserved. Most though have been personal.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)other woman a misandrist.
REP
(21,691 posts)And the series of events is the true version as he feels they happened to him, but we're only hearing one side of the story. It's possible his ex-wife is a very shallow person, but all I know from this story is that he's hurting and it doesn't excuse the use of "Hillary Hoochies," which is insulting and unnecessary.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Is it used as a compliment or a pejorative?
REP
(21,691 posts)A bad divorce isn't a reason to label any other woman as promiscuous.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)It was to point out that a pejorative is wrong. Certainly my response and point I was trying to make could have been better and with explanation. For that I apologize.
However, BernieBros is meant as an insult. As if all Bernie supporters are male meatheads. It is 100% a sexist term. It implies that we are dumb dumbs. It is not acceptable...just like HillaryHoochies is not acceptable. If people are trying to justify the continual use of the term BernieBros, a pejorative that is directed at male supporters, then it's hypocritical.
REP
(21,691 posts)If it were Bernie Ho instead of Bernie Bro, the "Hillary Hoochies" would be on the same level, but Bro doesn't imply what Hoochie does. I can think of a dozen better and more clever epithets off the top of my head that do not imply promiscuity.
You are the one who went out of the way to include the story about being cuckolded by your wife. That really makes it somewhat suspect that you chose the word "Hoochie" instead of, say, "Honcho," which implies about what Bro does.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)I've never put anybody on ignore...but you are dangerously close.
REP
(21,691 posts)A cuckold is the husband of an adulterous wife. Derived from cuckoo bird, and its habit of laying it's eggs in the nests of other birds.
Who knew you'd be so touchy about words.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)but calling someone a cuckold is not a compliment.
Does this really need to be explained to you?
REP
(21,691 posts)SO MUCH IRONY.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)and you should do the same. Be a stand up person and apologize.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)are you blaming the victim...and applying insulting terms to the victim...
you're doubling down. Like your behavior is a good thing. It's not.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Your suspicion of my story. Why? Is it because I'm the male component? Had the roles been reversed and it were her here telling you the story...would the suspicion be the same?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)The suspicion may stem from the fact that many of your recent posts use the word "bitch" whilst indicting others for sexism. Pot. Kettle. Black.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)and men that are jerks "bitches". Why? Because it's the opposite sexually appropriated term.
Just FYI.
REP
(21,691 posts)blame the victim.
No double standard here.
This is the double standard attitude I'm talking about. You apparently..because of your personal issues with me...think it's fine to talk to me in this manner. It must be my fault because you don't like me. Awesome...you're not a jerk at all.
REP
(21,691 posts)And I said, she very well could be a shallow person for all I know. Still doesn't excuse your use of "Hillary Hoochie."
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)I have also said that it takes two people to ruin a marriage.
But justifying abhorrent behavior by a person because you have a problem with the victim of that behavior...not a good look for anyone.
REP
(21,691 posts)It's so simple!! Women on DU didn't cheat on you or divorce from you!
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Now stop using the terms "BernieBros" and "cuckold".
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Would it make me a misogynist?
yardwork
(69,333 posts)Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)There's a reason I have a large circle of friends and am well respected in this town.
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)I ask that you consider deleting the OP and talk to a therapist who isn't your mother.
This won't help you, you're embarrassing yourself, and you're aggravating already tense relationships between DU members who are trying to come to terms with our candidates and supporters.
Eom
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)telling people to be quiet about being treated negatively? Should I "man up" and not express my concerns? Is this not a discussion forum? Do we not discuss here?
Check your privilege.
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)...and you're trying to resolve that by demanding respect on political discussion board by being disrespectful yourself. Like I said, this is not a good way to work out your issues.
Don't be surprised if you get flagged for review or have your posting privileges revoked if you continue misogynistic language. You're racking up quite the transparency page.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)from Clinton supporters.
Note in the 11 1/2 years in the lead up to these primaries....not one single hide...not one single flag.
11 1/2 years....zero issues. Last 6 months...10 hides. As hillary supporters like to say..."do the math".
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)I think REP has effectively proven my point.
REP
(21,691 posts)Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)But using your personal like or dislike of me to blame me...to call me a cuckold...to question my story...it shows pretty well the view many in society have of men in situations like this.
For that...thank you. It's important that others that aren't going through something like this to see the double standard. You've done that very effectively.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... if a man cheats he is a scumbag but if a woman cheats "you weren't doing something right".
There are all kinds of double-standards out there, against men and against women and I don't see them going away, they are based on deeply-held "feelings".
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)and many in society understand how incredibly painful it is when someone treats you in that manner.
You work on healing...and some asshole says something like, "Did you beat her?"....or, "You obviously didn't do your job"...or refers to you as a "cuckold"...
that is devastating. Absolutely heart crushing. Comments like that take me days to recover from. Many times I just lock myself in my house for a day or two and work on my business following one of those comments.
Society expects me to be a "tough guy" to "suck it up"....with no regards to how emotionally crushing it is when someone does this to you. It took me two months to leave my house after it happened...and half the people would say to me is, "you gotta get over that stuff, man.".
cwydro
(51,308 posts)If someone had left me for someone else "for the money" as you say, I would figure I got out of it lucky.
Any woman or man who leaves their partner for money, well, they never loved the partner to begin with.
I know it still hurts, but sounds like she wasn't much of a catch to begin with.
And believe me, I know; I'm really bad at choices lol.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Not to get personal but she literally looked me in the eyes the night before she bailed and told me how much she loved me...all the while knowing she was about to bail.
That...you have any idea what that does to somebody? Holy mind fuck, Batman.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)And I hate that for you.
I actually walked in on my partner in bed with someone else.
So yeah, I sure understand a mind fuck. That was years ago, but I remember it vividly. I left and walked a good two miles in blowing snow back to our house (we were at a "friend's"
ha. Then I just waited until morning.
Told her it was over, and I left within a week. (This happened overseas, so that part was not so easy.)
I don't know how long ago this happened to you, but time will eventually heal. Nah, you won't forget it, but crap, I reckon that's what we have to deal with as humans. 
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Believe it or not...I've come a long way. But my plans for years were that we would be buried next to one another. I'm loyal to a fault...and I don't let go easily either.
I'm sad for her because things didn't work out the way she had planned and it basically left her homeless and I will always love her. Now...I would never take her back. You destroy the trust, well...you can't really have a healthy relationship after that.
I've been focused on my business and my friends remind me constantly how I'm loved and how they have my back...so thats what keeps me on the path to healing.
And I'm sorry that happened to you. It's awful that somebody would do that to another human being. The devastation is horrific. It changes a person. Hearing about others surviving the same helps me get through. Thank you for sharing that.
Ive always stood by and believed I would never act in that manner because regardless of my feelings or lack thereof for a person, I never wanted to be the source for years of pain for someone. I don't think I could live with myself.
:hugs:
cwydro
(51,308 posts)A long time ago, I read somewhere that getting over a relationship takes at LEAST half of the time you were in it.
So a four year relationship would take at least two to start feeling like one was getting better. Always seemed like a good rule of thumb to me.
It hurts so bad in the beginning that you think the pain will never end. But it does.
Pain should teach us; apparently I'm a VERY slow learner.
Hang in there. It'll get better.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)your words help. I know it will get better. It's nice to hear it from others, though.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I sure know the feeling.
Response to sendero (Reply #44)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)is that the type of behavior that inspired me to make this thread is being defended by so many posters.
So many see zero problem with it. I'm a cuckold. I deserved it.
Disgusting.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)Disruptive meta is not permitted.