"My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people."

[Logical]

"My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me nigger, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father... Shoot them for what? How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail."

[raging moderate]

1. Muhammed Ali spoke truth to power.

And to the rest of us.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. He won his case 8-0 at the Supreme Court

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_v._United_States

[Logical]

3. +1000!

[unblock]

4. peculiar case, as supreme court cases go.

seems like a one-off kind of decision that should have been resolved in ali's favor by a lower court.

then again, many people just had it in for ali, which no doubt had much to do with why he had to go all the way to the top court.

that said, the supreme court generally prefers to clarify law and establish judicial guidelines and principles, and this really did none of that, being decided on a technicality.


on the merits, in the end, i'm not sure ali would have won. i'm not disputing that his beliefs weren't sincere, but i was under the impression that conscientious objector status couldn't pick and choose which war to fight in. if ali objected to the war in vietnam, but believed that war was ok if called for by "allah or the messenger", then i would think that would disqualify him from conscientious objector status.

regardless, i admire him for sticking to his principles, even at the expense of several years of what would have been the peak of a career that was incredible even without being able to box during that time.

[Logical]

12. Nice post! Nt

[H2O Man]

16. There are interesting aspects

that people should be aware of. The SC was set to uphold Ali's conviction, until a young lawyer requested a Justice read "The Autobiography of Malcolm X." That book was what changed the decision.

[unblock]

21. indeed -- it went from 5-3 to uphold the conviction to 8-0 to overturn.

the author of what was to be the majority opinion changed his mind, so it would have been 4-4, which would have upheld the conviction, but without any written opinion or explanation.

opting instead for the alternative of overturning it based on a technicality seems to have been influenced by a desire to avoid not having any explanation for a decision in a high profile case.

my guess is that voting to overturn based on a technicality won the day thanks to a desire by the justices, in the end, to avoid tackling the substantive issues, while at the same time avoiding not putting out any opinion at all.

[FourScore]

31. Who was the young lawyer? n/t

[msanthrope]

5. A landmark and thoughtfully decided case. nt

[Major Nikon]

35. There was a good movie about it on HBO

http://www.hbo.com/movies/muhammad-alis-greatest-fight

[heaven05]

6. I so loved it

when he poked the real americans in their eye with a big stick with this statement of absolute truth and no compromising principle and integrity. This statement is on my wall in very big letters.

[yellerpup]

7. He was a warrior.

He had no fear. He was truly The Greatest!

[leeroysphitz]

8. He would have voted for Sanders. n/t

[Enthusiast]

23. No question.

[uponit7771]

44. Not after he had someone who called Obama some form of nigger stump for him in IA and NH in front

... of mostly white people and didn't show hide nor hair in the "southern states" where I'm sure West would've loved to explain his language or critique about Obama to the "southern state" people.


No... not at all...

[jalan48]

9. A great man. I wonder what his thoughts were about our Mid-East wars.

[braddy]

32. According to wikipedia, he was not anti-war, he supported Islamic war.

[mountain grammy]

10. He became a hero to me.. exactly at that moment.

He was right and he was vindicated. A bright light of humanity has left us.. rest in peace, Ali.

[Hoyt]

11. Me too. To stand up to government, yahoos, etc., at risk of career and even life for what's right.

At that time, it took real guts and commitment.

[Logical]

13. He and the government knew they would never send him into harms way.....

He would of toured bases, sparring with troops, etc.

So it is ever a bigger deal that he stood up and said no IMO.

[Enthusiast]

24. Me too, mountain grammy!

[madokie]

14. A man of convictions

Within days of arriving in Vietnam I realized what we were doing there was Wrong as Wrong can be. Every time I see a Vietnamese Person I want to go up to them and grab and hold them tight and apologize for what my country did to them. The kids doing the fighting I can't fault cause we were lied to to get us there to begin with but the generals and politicians I damn sure can cuss them. The Vietnamese People did nothing to us. They were trying to protect their homes is all. Same as I would do if someone came and invaded us here in America.
Yes Jane Fonda, Mohammad Ali and my late friends brother, Jimmy Smith, who went to Canada rather than return for the third time to Vietnam are my HERO's and I'm damn sure Proud of it. The hell with the war mongers.

I am a man of my convictions as well.

[H2O Man]

17. Thank you.

[Hoyt]

19. Great post.

[Enthusiast]

25. Right on, madokie!

[Logical]

41. Great post! Nt

[Odin2005]

15. He sacrificed the prime of his career to do what was right.

[FairWinds]

18. A very brave man who . .

helped many of us better understand race relations, such
as they are - and were.

He was absolutely right about Vietnam.

Veteran For Peace (Vietnam, 1968-69)

[Logical]

42. So true

[valerief]

20. Just imagine if every drafted soldier did this. How powerful would the oligarchs be now? nt

[Enthusiast]

27. Exactly!

[laundry_queen]

34. + 1 nt

[felix_numinous]

22. To thine own self be true

Godspeed sir.

[Enthusiast]

26. We could have had peace every single day since the Vietnam War ended.

But this nation's corrupt "leaders" chose to follow a path of war upon war mostly for no valid reason whatsoever.

This is what happens after we let the elected miscreants get away with Vietnam. They never had to answer for the Gulf of Tonkin lies or the abuses that came after. Since then, ever so often, we just have to have another war of profit.

[napkinz]

28. video

[Logical]

29. Thank You! nt

[C Moon]

33. Wow!!!

[hopemountain]

36. standing there around a sea of bigotry.

a man of true courage and conviction. in peace he is on his journey.

[Eleanors38]

30. I remember hearing his words over the A.M. radio.

[jwirr]

37. It was a blessing for all of this that this man was in our lives.

He taught us so many things but the best thing we learned was to stand up against wrong. To have the courage to say no.

[Logical]

38. +1000! nt

[Ellen Forradalom]

39. What leaps out at me is "rob me of my nationality"

I've been re-reading Hannah Arendt's "Origins of Totalitarianism." In one chapter she discusses how stateless people and minorities with no government to represent them have the fewest rights, that civil rights precedes human rights. Ali names his statelessness and rightlessness. No wonder he enraged so many.

[Logical]

40. Great point! nt

[4bucksagallon]

43. My guess is Clarence Thomas would have ruled against Ali....

If he was on the SC, had found his voice, and wasn't asleep at the time..... But of course Thomas WAS a draft dodging coward.

[13Dogs]

45. A Lesson to Be Learned from The Greatest

"While many scorned Ali’s decision at the time" - 49 years later it's crystal clear that Ali was on the right side of history with respect to the Vietnam War. The fact that he stuck by his principles, despite the vicious condemnation from the authoritarians and war mongers, speaks volumes of the strength and goodness of this man. He asked the brilliant question, why would I want to go and kill poor people living in the mud for big. powerful America? The fact that question is still sadly relevant almost 50 years later, doesn't say a lot for the human race's progress towards a peaceful planet...but make no mistake, Ali sure did his part, and then some, towards that goal. He was a giant...

[Logical]

47. Thanks for this! nt

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Kick and Rec.

[Jnclr89]

48. right, left, right, left

knock out.