Should Social Security benefits be portable between Countries? This issue could be a stealth attack

As part of the ongoing services negotiations it appears that the issue of social security benefits portability has raised its head. In the future a great many workers are likely to be here working for their employing corporations- foreign firms. We've already agreed to let corporatios move their employees around at will- 20 years ago, but for various reasons the talks have stalled and started up a number of times, and the numbers still are small.

Currently people in this situation pay Social Security tax but never get any Social Security benefits since they by definition are temporary- here for no more than five or seven years in the case of managers. India has estimated that currently, despite the numbers of workers being fairly small, relative to Americans working here, India has estimated that its workers are currently losing around 1.6 billion dollars a year.

The tendency is towards globalization but under almost any way of looking at the issues, Americans are likely to lose in the short term. However, as this works both ways, ultimately it may be important to Americans to have benefits portability if Americans are forced to go elsewhere for work. (because of the high cost of living here) Its complicated because the practice under Social Security of giving beneficiaries more money than whatever interest is earned if they make less would be barred. So people could end up losing all their savings in a non-government Social Security scheme and in fact its likely that would happen, IMO, given the demographics.

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5 replies	Author	Time	Post
Should Social Security benefits be portable between Countries? This issue could be a stealth attack (Original post)	Baobab	Jun 2016	OP
if you are a US citizen there is no issue where you work to be able to collect SS benefits	beachbum bob	Jun 2016	#1
Our Social Security has had agreements with other countries' comparable programs for years.	pampango	Jun 2016	#2
When numbers are small, it just has to be within a row of apple tree's	One_Life_To_Give	Jun 2016	#3
I have heard ultimately it could be as many as 30 million or more	Baobab	Jun 2016	#5
There are a variety of treaties that deal with this	jberryhill	Jun 2016	#4

Response to Baobab (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 06:11 PM

beachbum bob (10,437 posts)

1. if you are a US citizen there is no issue where you work to be able to collect SS benefits

but you do need to pay into SS to attain the credits....if you a non-citizen....you can pay into SS while you are working in US and if you meet the eligible level you can collect...

not sure what problem you stating...if you a non-US citizen not working in america and working overseas would have SS taxes taken out of your check??? I don't think so

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Response to Baobab (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 06:29 PM

pampango (24,691 posts)

2. Our Social Security has had agreements with other countries' comparable programs for years.

I'm not sure how it works in detail.

Since the late 1970's, the United States has established a network of bilateral Social Security agreements that coordinate the U.S. Social Security program with the comparable programs of other countries. This article gives a brief overview of the agreements and should be of particular interest to multinational companies and to people who work abroad during their careers.

International Social Security agreements, often called "Totalization agreements," have two main purposes. First, they eliminate dual Social Security taxation, the situation that occurs when a worker from one country works in another country and is required to pay Social Security taxes to both countries on the same earnings. Second, the agreements help fill gaps in benefit protection for workers who have divided their careers between the United States and another country.

Agreements to coordinate Social Security protection across national boundaries have been common in Western Europe for decades. Following is a list of the agreements the United States has concluded and the date of the entry into force of each. Some of these agreements were subsequently revised; the date shown is the date the original agreement entered into force.

https://www.ssa.gov/international/agreements_overview.html

They are almost all European countries other than Canada, Japan and South Korea.

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Response to Baobab (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 06:50 PM

One_Life_To_Give (6,036 posts)

3. When numbers are small, it just has to be within a row of apple tree's

As the number of people to whom this applies increases beyond an insignificant number. Everyone is going to have to pay attention to the details. If I work 20 yrs in the US and 20 in Malaysia, who pays what? is it proportional? Do I get SS at US or Malaysian rates? A hundred people and the details don't matter much. A couple million people and it might break budgets in some countries.

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Response to One_Life_To_Give (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:30 PM

Baobab (4,667 posts)

5. I have heard ultimately it could be as many as 30 million or more

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Response to Baobab (Original post)

Sat Jun 4, 2016, 07:16 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

4. There are a variety of treaties that deal with this

Reciprocal social insurance agreements are not just limited to US SS benefits, and there is a patchwork of international conventions and bi-lateral treaties that deal with pensions, medical insurance etc..

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