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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEuropean churches say growing flock of Muslim refugees are converting
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/05/european-churches-growing-flock-muslim-refugees-converting-christianity"A growing number of Muslim refugees in Europe are converting to Christianity, according to churches, which have conducted mass baptisms in some places.
Reliable data on conversions is not available but anecdotal evidence suggests a pattern of rising church attendance by Muslims who have fled conflict, repression and economic hardship in countries across the Middle East and central Asia.
Complex factors behind the trend include heartfelt faith in a new religion, gratitude to Christian groups offering support during perilous and frightening journeys, and an expectation that conversion may aid asylum applications.
At Trinity church in the Berlin suburb of Steglitz, the congregation has grown from 150 two years ago to almost 700, swollen by Muslim converts, according to Pastor Gottfried Martens. Earlier this year, churches in Berlin and Hamburg reportedly held mass conversions for asylum seekers at municipal swimming pools."
Thought this was very interesting.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)You'd think they'd become athiest after the struggles.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Church's organization give you an instant welcoming community that probably help alot when chased from your home by murderous lunatics. It's still Abrhamaic and familiar in some ways, so I think it would be an easier transition too. The mental strain of fleeing ISIS probably isn't too conductive to contemplating the type of change in worldview eliminating deities brings.
libodem
(19,288 posts)I can't begin to imagine.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)people to truth and light, but it's a free world - they can do whatever they want. If it makes their assimilation experience easier or better for their children, fine with me.
lindysalsagal
(20,440 posts)And it always has been. People believe in filling their stomachs, security, and hopefulness, not gods.
Mosby
(16,168 posts)But the copts, chaldeans, druze and others have greatly suffered because of their beliefs and continue to do so.
braddy
(3,585 posts)In the Western world, you are allowed to try out as many different religions as you like, stick with the one you like best, or none at all if you prefer. This is not the case in Muslim countries.
lindysalsagal
(20,440 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Than if you do not believe 'this' superstition we will kill you. Which is what most of these folk are fleeing.
hatrack
(59,440 posts)braddy
(3,585 posts)hatrack
(59,440 posts)Get down with your bad self, big fella.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)actually, that is allowed to leave Islam and not be executed for apostasy
braddy
(3,585 posts)in the countries they are fleeing from.
I think my original post holds up.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)my point was that in many of the countries they are fleeing, they do face the death penalty for renouncing Islam and converting to something else
in Germany, they don't face death for converting, hence more do.
One thing that does still happen, converts are often shunned by their families after conversion. I attend anglican churches in two different cities, and we have had muslim converts that have been rejected by their families in both congregations.
braddy
(3,585 posts)madinmaryland
(64,920 posts)Am I missing something??
hatrack
(59,440 posts)Make haste, or no free stuff for you!!!
pampango
(24,692 posts)if the far-right will become more accepting of refugees if they are not 'scary Muslims'. Probably not.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I hope so.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)The whole migrant crisis has been a disaster in europe.
pampango
(24,692 posts)Some on the left are still supporting refugees and immigrants.
Germany: 400+ arrested as right and left wing protesters clash; political tensions heat up
Hundreds of left-wing protesters have clashed with people attending a far-right party conference in the German city of Stuttgart.
Around 1,000 officers were deployed at the Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) party conference, as 400 arrests were made
Footage on social media showed the protesters shouting slogans such as: "Keep refugees, drive Nazis away!"
AfD, which wants to ban the burqa and outlaw minarets in Germany, is expected to announce that it is explicitly anti-Islamic during the meeting.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/alternative-fur-deutschland-conference-protesters-germany-arrested-a7007971.html
Quantess
(27,630 posts)which way the wind is blowing. The mainstream politicians that want to keep their jobs have figured out that they shouldn't appear too eager to accept more asylum seekers or immigrants in general.
Whether you agree or not, this is the situation all over europe.
pampango
(24,692 posts)policies. You are right, mainstream politicians will bend whichever way they think the political wind is blowing and it is blowing to the right at the moment.
In March's Germany provincial election, the RW populist party AfD got almost 1/4 of the vote in one province.
The populist Alternative for Germany, which focused its campaign on opposition to Ms. Merkels migrant policy, won nearly a quarter of the vote in the eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt. The resultseveral percentage points higher than recent polls had suggestedrepresents the partys best total in a regional election since its founding three years ago. We have a very clear position on refugee policy: We dont want to take in any refugees, AfD deputy chairman Alexander Gauland said on German television. All who voted for us stand behind this policy.
But the results laid bare the extent to which the migration crisis has polarized German society. Left-of-center proponents of a welcoming refugee policy also recorded wins Sunday, even as Ms. Merkels conservatives suffered. Ms. Merkels Christian Democratic Union lost two close races, falling to the center-left Greens in Baden-Württemberg and the center-left Social Democrats in Rhineland-Palatinate.
In the traditionally conservative state of Baden-Württemberg, one of Germanys economic powerhouses, the refugee-friendly Greens surged to first place behind their popular incumbent premier, Winfried Kretschmann. Ms. Merkels CDU failed to win first place in the southwestern state for the first time since World War II. The AfD, meanwhile, won 15%the best postwar result for a populist or far-right party in the state.
Despite Sundays setbacks, Ms. Merkel remains in a relatively strong position at home. Her approval rating stands at 54%, a decline from 67% last summer but still high compared with the leaders of many other European democracies. ... In Sundays exit polls, a majority of voters in Baden-Württemberg and Rhineland-Palatinate said Ms. Merkel was doing a good job handling migration.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/germans-head-to-polls-in-test-of-merkels-refugee-policies-1457857810
The anti-immigrant far-right is rising in Europe and in the US. The question is how long their rise continues and what, if anything, reverses it. Many politicians in the middle will 'triangulate' their migrant policies to appease the right. We can hope that most on the left will not but who knows.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)may help them but I have a story that makes me kind of doubt this.
There is a hill over looking a the village of Lame Deer Montana. The Natives in this village on the reservation tell the story about the Catholic church priests who would stand on the top of the hill and baptize the whole village and claim that the people were all now Christians. So I am wondering if this is just the church practicing and age old baptism or if they are really getting people to accept what they teach.
Also many of the refugees may already been Christian since the countries of the ME are none to friendly to that religion.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I thought that the Muslims were going to take over and could not assimilate!
TipTok
(2,474 posts)It's that not enough choose to do so.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Black cats for cracks in a sidewalk.
Big fat meh....
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I would think that is a hopeful sign. I'm pretty anti-religious on the whole, but any effort made to assimilate is a good sign, I think.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)... But it's a drop in the ocean.
It's also like swapping out terminal cancer for HIV.
Better but still bad....
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Or one imaginary national border for another.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other-- as none exist anywhere but our little imaginations, Horatio.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It's natural that the new immigrants would explore their new freedoms.
Unfortunately, many immigrants have come from countries in which they didn't have a lot of social, cultural and religious options.
Democrats Ascendant
(601 posts)I went to a lot of dance clubs in Syria and Lebanon when I made my way through about a decade ago.
Lots of young people doing as they will do!!
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)Let me find this story that I read about 2 months ago.
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Germany-Berlin-Nightclubs-Mobilize-to-Help-Refugees-20160515-0040.html
The oldest gay nightclub in Berlin held the second edition of its Refugees Welcome party Sunday, part of a broader initiative in the city's nightlife community to raise money for pro-refugee organizations.
Many Syrian and Arab refugees reportedly visit the nightclub regularly, Lcavaliero, the club's art director, told TRAX magazine. He added he could not tell how the refugees would perceive support from the gay community, but emphasized that the fight against homophobia could not be split from the fight against racism.
I could meet a DJ from Syria who ran away because of his sexual orientation. There were [gay] parties there, it can be surprising but I don't believe it would be a shock for them [refugees], he added.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I suspect there are a lot of gay immigrants and refugees that would like to live their lives without fear from the religious henchmen.
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)homes, beliefs. I'm hoping they learn to embrace other new cultural ideas, also.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)My prayers and good thoughts go out to all the regugees of this crisid regardless of wjat they believe.
Democrats Ascendant
(601 posts)Many Syrians are actually Christians already, so maybe there's some people confusing Arab = Muslim. There could also be some switching between the various Christian denominations. Still, the report is interesting.
Vogon_Glory
(9,085 posts)i betcha that one of the factors that inspired the sincere converts was the relative shortage of heavily-armed strutting goons using religion as an excuse to be hateful to their neighbors.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)daleo
(21,317 posts)ISIS kills apostates from Islam, so converts have an excellent justification for seeking refugee status in Europe. Sending them back now, could be a death sentence. From a legal standpoint, conversion is a smart move.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I think the article mentions that not all the converts might be sincere, but I didn't think about that as a reason.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)I know one poster who will have a sad
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)But I support personal choices of religion.....blah blah blah
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)and thereabouts, members of which will be among refugees in Anatolia and in Europe seeking asylum?
A factor that might impact certain church attendance figures.
The mooted swimming pool "mass conversations" would surely have been documented and published somewhere...
dembotoz
(16,739 posts)if you look and dress like everyone else you are treated better
its not rocket science or theology....its peer pressure just like high school
this is why i always kinda admire folks who keep the traditional clothing
it takes guts
Warpy
(110,909 posts)First, the ones who have experienced the harsh Wahab reign of ISIL have likely lost a lot of faith in Islam. Second, they are in a new country and have seen enough in the old one that they never want to return, so they're adopting all the trappings of that new country as fast as they can. This phenomenon was also seen in the Irish fleeing the potato famine.
I know a few Muslims in this country who converted, mostly because it was easier on their kids. They still suppress a shudder when they look at the pork in the supermarket.