I think Democrats are making a mistake

[lancer78]

By going after Trump so early. We need him to be the nominee first. If democrats go after him too hard, the Republican establishment will try to get someone new at the convention.

We should do what Claire McCaskill(sp) did after Aikan made his "legitimate rape" comment. She stayed low and cancelled all her tv appearances. She needed him to stay in the race.

[PatrickforO]

1. Clinton is such a weak candidate that if the GOP ran someone sane, like Ryan,

she could well end up losing. Did you read the Matt Taibbi article in the RS about how the Dems are learning all the wrong lessons from the Sanders candidacy? It's good - posted here by a pat_k. Short. Sometimes Taibbi is a bit wordy, but I loved Griftopia.

[GaYellowDawg]

5. Wha?

What the actual fuck makes you think Ryan is sane?

And Hillary would pummel that watery-eyed Randian turd in a debate. He wouldn't stand a chance.

[King_Klonopin]

11. Sane-ER by comparison, maybe? I dunno. nt

Trump seems like the male equivalent of Sarah Palin to me. He's a "mimbo" -- a male bimbo. (credit Seinfeld)

[randome]

24. Excellent analogy and excellent word to describe him!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[SouthernDemLinda]

72. Oh nooooooooooo!!!

He wouldn't say FBI investigation or espionage either.

[OnDoutside]

10. With Democrats like you, who needs Republicans ?

[joeybee12]

21. Exactly...nt

[AgadorSparticus]

59. Right??!?!! Makes you wonder......

[SouthernDemLinda]

73. We don't need them.

No, with democrats like the so-called nominee we don't need them.

[still_one]

77. Ignoring the fact that Hillary won most of the primarys, won more of the votes,

and won more of the pledged delegates

[leftofcool]

12. Why are you on DU if you are a Ryan fan?

[pangaia]

30. Ryan fan? HUH ???

Did you read the post?

[-none]

43. Consider the source.

Purposeful reading comprehension problem.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

49. I did

They called Ryan "sane". Which is code to me for "not that bad" or "we could live with that".

Paul Ryan is dangerous. He is the slick operator who shakes your hand and charms you with lies and bullshit about his libertarian philosophy while lifting your wallet and telling you it's ok.

[pangaia]

50. You are right.

[SouthernDemLinda]

74. It's misconstruing your post.

I got my post taken off for say can you read to someone who kept on misconstruing my post!

[mercuryblues]

13. Clinton

Last edited Fri Jun 10, 2016, 10:01 AM - Edit history (1)

is such a bad campaigner, yet she beat Sanders 15,800,000 to 12,009,562

Clinton is such a weak candidate, yet she got the more votes than Trump's 13.4 million

supporters aren't enthusiastic. yet somehow they outvoted every other candidate.

So really when you say things like Ryan could beat her it somehow rings hollow. We all know how much Ryan helped Romney win the presidency. Oh.Wait. He didn't.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/republican_vote_count.html

[unc70]

19. You need to check your numbers

For example, Clinton did not get 158 million votes:

"...yet she beat Sanders 158,000,000 to 120,000,000"

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Yes, Indeed

The three numbers spouted total to more than entire population of the United States.

[Yo_Mama]

39. Delete a zero, and you'll be very close.

As it is, this is rather funny and not convincing.

[Loudestlib]

61. She's been running for 10 years and that's the best she could do?

[SouthernDemLinda]

75. GOP has gotten more total votes - candidates.

www.npr.org/yes-clintons-gotten-the-most-votes-but-gop-has-more-

Yes, she's gotten more votes than Donald Trump. But the GOP has gotten more total votes because of its larger field of candidates.

[Herman4747]

17. Agreed. Her 56% disapproval rating attests to this.

We need The Donald in the race.

[ladjf]

18. Ryan is dumb as a rock.

[Orrex]

35. The fact that you identify Ryan as "sane" calls the rest of your reasoning into question

[PatrickforO]

45. BS. I didn't say he wasn't odious. I just said most perceive him as sane.

[Ned_Devine]

52. Don't worry about them. They purposely misread things

Like the GOP operatives on TV. I try to not even bother debating these turkeys

[Orrex]

57. Golly!

[hollowdweller]

56. Ryan sounds reasonable to the average person.

He has a good way of presenting himself. In reality, there's nothing there.

We dems often have the opposite problem. People with really good ideas but not good at pimping them. Bill Clinton excluded.

Who in the fuck would have though Bush would have beat Gore?? It was close but on Bush's side it was how he came off.

[SouthernDemLinda]

78. Gore did win!

Gore did win! They stopped the count and the Supreme Court chose the President.

[liberal N proud]

53. Ryan - sane?

[hollowdweller]

54. I'm not sure I agree with that article.

I think Clinton has pivoted way more populist. I have every reason to believe that she will be a liberal president economically if she really makes good on what she's been saying.

[PatrickforO]

65. I sincerely hope you're right. One thing's for sure, though -

After this campaign where Bernie got so many votes, no one can really say America is 'center right.'

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. she's so weak that bernie lost to her by over 3 million votes

lol

[still_one]

76. excuse me, how did such a "weak" candidate get more votes in the primary?

[Historic NY]

80. Matt Taibbi has jumped the shark.....

period, his boss is backing Clinton along with the Rolling Stone Magazine, he presumes too much.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/hillary-clinton-for-president-20160323

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/3/26/honest-and-unmerciful-an-open-letter-to-matt-taibbi-of-rolling-stone-magazine

[TrollBuster9090]

2. I think that if they even TRIED to replace Trump at the Convention

it would tear the Republican Party apart so badly that, even if they succeeded, it would be a pyrrhic victory, and they'd lose anyway.

I don't see that possibility as a major threat. A more likely, and more terrifying scenario would be the Koch brothers just buying the orange blimp off, and offering him $100,000,000 to just resign and go away, so that they can anoint Paul Ryan. I think that's a distinct possibility.

[lancer78]

4. I think you are right

about Trump not getting the nomination. But why chance it.

[Blanks]

36. I think the Kochs are 'sitting this one out'...

based on their latest statements.

I agree that replacing Trump at the convention would do them more damage than good.

[GulfCoast66]

46. If they replace trump

Cleveland will make 68 Chicago look like a birthday party.

A good percentage of his followers are on the fringe. And they may not be able to bring guns into the convention center, but they sure as shit will have them in their hotels and cars.

I know a couple that do not fly on vacation, only drive so the can take their gun.

As a gun owner that is scary.

[Cosmocat]

84. I have been saying this since all that talk started

they may lose, they may lose big, you never know, they could win, with Trump on the ticket this year.

But, it will be a one cycle occurrence.

If they take the nomination from him after he had a commanding popular vote/delegate lead, won by far the most states, they would lose that core of jackasses who support him for a generation, and those jackasses are the margin for them winning elections.

[qdouble]

3. That's ridiculous. Regardless of what the republican establishment wants...

Trump has far too much support among republican voters for them to take back the nomination from him.

The best case scenario for them if Trump implodes, is to just to distance themselves as far as they can from him and hold on to as many House and Senate seats as they can. Taking the nomination from Trump would be suicide.

[OnDoutside]

9. That's the reailty. Even if they take it away from him, there would be enough of a slice of

Republican voters who support Trump and rail against "The Establishment", who would not support any replacement. The Republican elite have nowhere to go on this, unless they make the calculation that by doing so, they could at least save more down ballot seats than by not making the change.

[JustAnotherGen]

6. Agree to disagree

There are Senate seats in play. Too much pressure on Republicans to endorse Trump. The more that are forced to defend him the better.

[BlueMTexpat]

7. +1! Great point! eom

[Logical]

16. Imo, he will not be the nominee. Nt

[pangaia]

31. I have thought the same thing for several weeks.

However it happens.

My guess is that he quits, for whatever reason.

[SouthernDemLinda]

85. Surprise!

I thought that Trump wouldn't be the nominee from day one. But he is.

[JustAnotherGen]

34. Doesn't matter all of those Senators and Members of the House

Are coming out in 'support' of him.

The more they go after him - the more they have to defend him. At the end of the day - they need to be made to own his words that they supported.

[Rex]

8. Nobody has to go after him, the media loves to show whatever bombastic thing he says that night.

Dump makes his own news.

[Logical]

14. I 100% agree! We are being stupid. WE WANT TRUMP!

[patricia92243]

15. Talkers said candidates need to define their opponent early, so people

have that idea from the very start. I wonder if they will slow down a little after the first couple of weeks.

[justiceischeap]

20. The GOP is between a rock and a hard place with Trump

If they oust him at the convention, they lose 13 million voters, and many reps and senators could lose their seats.

If they keep Trump and can't reign him in, they lose the election.

I think the leaders of the GOP have already seen the writing on the wall and are coming to terms with a loss this November and will regroup for 2020.

That said, what makes you think Clinton can't beat Ryan? He's not much better than Trump and besides, there's talk of Scott Walker being a replacement if there was to be one.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. We will know they're crying uncle when they agree to Garland

I do think that Bernie had the right approach on this, promising a far left pick for the seat if he won. It puts more pressure on GOPers to show their hand vis-a-vis Trump.

[karynnj]

22. They really can not replace him and they do not want

Him to be able to use his convention to define himself. They are firing very big guns, which started rather quietly with comments speaking somberly about the concerns of our allies in the world. Accelerating to the attacks all the way up to Obama and Biden.

Warren has played a very outsized role here too. Do not be surprised if this is how they use Sanders after he concedes.

I do not worry that they will take the nomination from him and give it to someone else. If they do, they forfit even trying for the disaffected vote.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

23. That's a good point, but Hillary's campaign and her supporters are culpable, here

for losing their collective minds over the imaginary urgency for pivoting to the GE.

[djean111]

25. I believe this was planned all along. n/t

[Orrex]

37. How long would Sanders have waited, exactly?

How long would Sanders have allowed Trump free rein at the mic and on every media outlet, saying whatever he wants and scooping up endorsements from up and down the GOP?

Explain to me how it would be a better strategy to hold off while leaving Trump's attacks unanswered. That was Kerry's strategy in dealing with the Swift Boat smear, and we see how that worked out for him.

Trump will control the narrative unless someone wrests it from him. Sanders' "don't go negative" attitude is laudable in theory but would be suicide in a general election against any GOP opponent, especially Trump.

[Orrex]

44. Golly!

[GulfCoast66]

48. Oh the irony...

Remind me who is playing the victim?

The situation followed exactly what happened in 08. Did you bitch when Obama claimed it?

[SouthernDemLinda]

86. If you can't talk about the issues?

If you don't have the baggage of Hillary or Trump, investigations and lawsuits, and Bernie Sanders doesn't you don't have to run a mud slinging campaign.

Also, he can talk about the issues and they can't. When you can't talk about the issues you talk about bogus issues, like how orange your opponent is today.

[Orrex]

93. Well, it's been that way for the past 56 presidential elections

Yes, the issues. That would be marvelous. Some day it might happen, but it hasn't happened in the history of the republic. Too bad Bernie lost, right? We'd have gotten to see the media ignore him while he talked about the issue.

In about four days you're going to have to make a tough decision. I wonder what you'll choose.

[emulatorloo]

27. She'd pat Ryan on the head, and then rip his heart out.

Just as Biden did in '12. Ryan's reputation as 'smart' and 'reasonable' isn't earned.

[DCBob]

29. I think defining him early as a fraud and dangerous is good.

There will plenty more specifics and details down the road to keep it going.

[leftynyc]

33. Looks like a win win to me

Either Hillary beats him head to head or they kick him off the ticket, his supporters go freeking insane and stay home and we win anyway.

[CrowCityDem]

38. Think "Bernie Or Bust" is bad, imagine how many Trump voters won't show up if they try that.

[NewJeffCT]

40. Now is the time to define Trump for the pathetic asshole that he is

excuse my language. In 2004, as soon as Kerry was the presumptive nominee, the GOP attacked Kerry as an unprincipled flip-flopper. While Kerry made it a close election, the flip-flopper image stuck through the campaign.

Trump doesn't have the money to counter attack ads like "Grace" right now, and he hasn't been able to get all the free air time lately, either. Morning Joe this morning was saying how it's been a great two weeks for Clinton and horrible for Trump when Trump should have been all over the air about the Inspector General report and her emails.

[stopbush]

42. I guess you missed yesterday's roll out of Hillary by the D big guns.

The point they all made was that Trump is just another R, that they're all just as bad as him, only he's also a racist.

They can get rid of Turmp and insert someone else, but the D strategy this year is anti-Rs-in-general, not anti one person.

[George Eliot]

47. That's good advice.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

51. Good point. Looks like he's on a "somewhat dignified" leash now. But, hard

to imagine he will keep it up. So undisciplined....but maybe the PTB told him - act right or the convention will boot you.

Funny thing about Trump is that everyone who is sane already knows he's crazy.

I would pull out the old girl with daisy ad and update it. His lack of concern about controlling nuclear weapons could scare a lot of fence sitters.

[lancer78]

63. Looks like he is off it now

Just called Warren "Pocahontas, and a half full stadium of his supporters erupted into war whoops.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

64. Chump Change

Sadly, that's his norm and it's got to be bigger and more bigoted than that now to appall the media

[deathrind]

55. They certainly did make a

Mistake.

[NYC Liberal]

58. No. If anything, it's been TOO LONG.

He needs to be hit hard and early unless you want him to define the narrative.

Rule #1 of campaigning is you define your opponent before they define you.

[athena]

60. I disagree. Having Trump as a candidate is too dangerous.

If he is the nominee, then there will be a small chance that he might win and become president. That would be a disaster for the U.S. and for the world. I'd rather risk losing the election than risk having to live under President Trump.

In 2000, when GWB won against McCain, I was relieved. I thought GWB was such a weak candidate that Gore was sure to win. I learned, of course, that you can never be certain that a weak candidate will not win. I will be very happy if the Republican party decides to run someone other than Trump. The Republican Party is a party that's out of ideas; all their top people are weak. I'm certain that HRC can win against any of them.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

67. I think it's far from obvious that Cruz or Rubio would be better.

Certainly, I'd far rather have a 1/3 or 1/4 chance of a president Trump than a 2/3 or 3/4 chance of a president Rubio (and those are my best guesses of their chances of beating Clinton).

[athena]

69. Your numbers don't look right.

You seem to be saying that if Rubio were running, Hillary's chance of winning would only be 25%-33%.

No way. Rubio is not that popular, and Hillary is not that unpopular. The country is not so overwhelmingly Republican.

What I'm saying is that I'd rather have a 20% chance of Cruz or Rubio winning than a 5% chance of Trump winning. Any nonzero probability of Trump winning is too high, in my opinion. And if he is on the ballot, he has a nonzero probability of winning.

ETA: I agree that Rubio and Cruz are almost as bad as Trump. But there is a certain unpredictability about Trump. I don't want to see Hispanic Americans and Muslim Americans deported. I don't want to see a nuclear war. The probability of that level of catastrophe would be lower under anyone other than Trump.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

70. Only one party has held the presidency three times in a row since the war.

I'd bet on any halfway decent Republican candidate to beat just about any Democrat this cycle.

I view Trump as an almost unprecedented stroke of good fortune, not to be squandered.

[athena]

71. I would normally agree with you

but they don't have a single "halfway decent" candidate. They've gone too far right; no one who is sensible would be a Republican in the first place; and if they were, they couldn't get the support of the party's base.

[SouthernDemLinda]

87. Nothing new here.

Trump has talked about universal healthcare and the bad trade agreements. I think only Bernie has, except for a pie in the sky, sometime in the future healthcare.

I think you've got things a little bit backwards. The democrats are out of ideas and it looks like people. S.O.S. (same old shit) have fun raving.

[athena]

88. What are you doing on Democratic Underground

if you think the Democrats "are out of ideas"?

I can't believe I'm reading on DU that Republicans are the party of ideas. What ideas, precisely, are you referring to? The idea of deporting 11 million Mexicans? The idea of not letting in Muslim immigrants? The idea of building a wall along the border with Mexico and getting the Mexicans to pay for it?

What about rebuilding the country's infrastructure, so that bridges stop collapsing? Democrats have been talking about that for years, but Republicans refuse to approve the funding. Is that not an idea?

You can feel free to vote for Trump. If you then happen to be on a bridge that has not been properly maintained, because of the Republican "idea" that taxes are a bad thing, while it is in the process of collapsing, you might realize that your vote was a mistake. By then, of course, it'll be too late to go back.

[nyquil_man]

62. His Republican opponents made the mistake of handling him with kid gloves.

They waited too long to go after him and, by the time they did, their attacks rang as hollow and insincere. No, I think you have to begin with the central premise that this man is not fit to be president. Waiting only legitimizes him.

Now, if you begin with the premise that the Republicans are going to dump him, sure, it's a dangerous strategy. I think, though, that you're assuming the GOP leadership has suddenly developed a lot of power they didn't have before and have also suddenly grown a spine. I doubt either is the case.

Edit: Not only do you have to go after his lack of fitness to serve. You have to tie his philosophy to the party as a whole. Trump is just saying what other Republicans don't have the guts to say. They're only bothered by him because he messes up their long-term scam.

[BainsBane]

68. What are you talking about? He is the nominee

You're obviously not a political strategist, for a very good reason.

The only one served by the Democrats laying off Trump is Trump himself.

[still_one]

79. I think the OP is assuming there will be some kind of coup at the republican convention

and somehow they will take the nomination away from trump

The Clinton campaign, and the Democrats cannot hold or delay. They need to go after Trump and the republicans strong, right from the start.

Kerry is a perfect example of what happens when you don't go after you opponent quickly. He ignored the swift boaters too long, and then it became too little too late

President Obama learned the lessons from what happened to Kerry, as evidenced how he handled the Reverend Wright attacks, to Bill Ayres. You cannot let your opponent's characterization of you stand. Not only do you need to refute it, but you need to go after your opponent twice as hard

[BainsBane]

89. There won't be a coup

Trump will be the nominee, and you're absolutely right about the Kerry example. Trump in the GOP primary is another example.

[still_one]

94. I agree, he will be the nominee

[cloudythescribbler]

81. this is all silliness -- Trump will be the nominee, whatever chatter there is to the contrary

And some people here seem to assume that he can't get elected. I hope so, but worry otherwise. A lot can happen, and of course Hillary is a lightening-rod to the RW, energizing them and uniting them, when all the hot news cycles end

of course, Trump is unpredictable, but this can cut in more than one way

It is important therefore -- NOT to alienate my fellow Bernie supporters (this should have been a priority starting at the latest after March 15). I will vote to stop Trump & so will Bernie, but unifying the Party rather than trying to control the narrative completely (a major reason for the hardball from the mainstream, and all this nonsense about how important it is for Bernie to quit as soon as possible, etc)

It is also important to pick a VP that can really help to unify the Party. I do NOT think that Sen Warren wants to run on the ticket but I could be wrong. But a choice like Biden in 08 (when the Democrats were headed to a big victory and had a much more mass-appealing candidate) won't do now ...

Third, it WILL be necessary to unleash the SUPERPacs against Trump (for those who might be too pure for this) and yes he WILL have to be attacked from some quarters in his own terms (as Bill Maher recently noted)

I am not a political strategy pro, so don't have too much by way of particulars or other strategies, just thinking this kind of idle notion that Trump will pull out now is distracting

I hope this isn't too blunt for some

[TDale313]

82. Hit him hard, early, often.

He will almost certainly be the nominee, and frankly he's just too damn dangerous to risk him actually winning. I think getting cute and pulling our punches early would be a massive mistake.

[lancer78]

91. I see your point

but being too aggressive, and if he falls too far behind in the polls, might force the Republicans to kick him out. We need Trump to stay in the race.

[rurallib]

83. I sure hope crap like this ends soon

If I wanted to see post ripping our candidates I am sure there are plenty of other sites I could go to

[lancer78]

90. How is my post

"ripping" our candidate?

I just voicing my opinion that if we are too aggressive towards Trump, the Republicans might be forced to replace him. We need to keep him in the race.

[TeamPooka]

92. Politics 101 - Attack early and define your opponent to the voters. nt