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MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 10:26 AM Jun 2016

Not a Single Republican Delegate Is ‘Bound’ to Donald Trump (Bit of a peek into the dark side)

(Forgive the National Review source; interestingly, it is the best source for OPO research on Don The Con.)

National Review, Online
By: David French
June 10, 2016

Let’s begin with a simple proposition: As a matter of law and history, there is not a single “bound” delegate to the Republican National Convention.

Not one delegate is required to vote for Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, or any other individual who “won” votes in the primary process. Each delegate will have to make his or her own choice. They — and they alone — will choose the Republican nominee. The paragraph above contradicts much of what you’ve been told about the presidential nominating process, and it even contradicts state law in multiple jurisdictions, but state law does not govern the Republican party. The party governs itself, and according to the rules it has implemented, there is only one convention where the delegates were truly bound: 1976’s, when Gerald Ford fended off a challenge from Ronald Reagan. In every other Republican convention ever held, every delegate has been free to vote their conscience.

Let’s break this down, legal step by legal step:

1. State legislatures cannot violate the First Amendment rights of Republican delegates. Throughout the primary, pundits have reminded voters again and again that there exists a patchwork quilt of state laws that “require” delegates to follow the will of the primary voters — sometimes only through one ballot, sometimes through more. These laws are unconstitutional. A state entity cannot mandate the manner in which private citizens govern private organizations. Indeed, the notion that states can compel members of private associations to vote according to primary results is a fundamentally progressive notion, an expansion of the government into the private sphere. Yet First Amendment guarantees of free speech and freedom of association stand as a bulwark against exactly this kind of government interference.

Indeed, the Supreme Court has already ruled that in a conflict between state law and national-party rules, the national-party rules take precedence. In Cousins v. Wigoda, the High Court decided a dispute between two delegate slates to the 1972 Democratic Convention — one slate (the Cousins slate) was selected according to Illinois state law; the other (the Wigoda slate) was actually seated at the convention. The Court granted review to determine whether Illinois courts were “correct in according primacy to state law over the National Political Party’s rules in the determination of the qualifications and eligibility of delegates to the Party’s National Convention.”

The Court ruled for Wigoda, holding that: The States themselves have no constitutionally mandated role in the great task of the selection of Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates. If the qualifications and eligibility of delegates to National Political Party Conventions were left to state law “each of the fifty states could establish the qualifications of its delegates to the various party conventions without regard to party policy, an obviously intolerable result.” Such a regime could seriously undercut or indeed destroy the effectiveness of the National Party Convention as a concerted enterprise engaged in the vital process of choosing Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates— a process which usually involves coalitions cutting across state lines. [Internal citations omitted.]

Or, to put it in plain English, the Court essentially told the states to mind their own business and let the parties govern themselves.

Excerpted due to copy right. Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436428/republican-convention-delegates-not-bound-donald-trump

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Not a Single Republican Delegate Is ‘Bound’ to Donald Trump (Bit of a peek into the dark side) (Original Post) MosheFeingold Jun 2016 OP
And the GOP/FoxNews said that the Democrats were imploding. Then Trump opened his mouth..... tonyt53 Jun 2016 #1
Technically, there are no bound delegates at the D convention, either. stopbush Jun 2016 #2
True. MosheFeingold Jun 2016 #3
Really poor comparison in my opinion LannyDeVaney Jun 2016 #5
Probably a bit dramatic MosheFeingold Jun 2016 #6
Hope everything turns out OK, I know the feeling. LannyDeVaney Jun 2016 #7
I don't find Sanders to be at all honest. stopbush Jun 2016 #10
My point is I will vote for Hillary. MosheFeingold Jun 2016 #14
yes, and some of those republican 'suspended campaigns' aren't releasing their delegates either. Sunlei Jun 2016 #4
Rand Paul MosheFeingold Jun 2016 #9
Meh... Wounded Bear Jun 2016 #11
republican party is already 'ruined',if they run trump in GE its EPIC disaster for associated Rs. Sunlei Jun 2016 #18
No disagreement here... Wounded Bear Jun 2016 #19
Oh, David French! gratuitous Jun 2016 #8
Legally, he's correct MosheFeingold Jun 2016 #12
And knowing what a calm, stable bunch Trump voters are gratuitous Jun 2016 #20
It would be interesting MosheFeingold Jun 2016 #21
So what's the point of having all state by state primaries?? DCBob Jun 2016 #13
Makes people feel good MosheFeingold Jun 2016 #15
I'm wondering who in their right mind... RussBLib Jun 2016 #16
Their's is a convoluted argument Gman Jun 2016 #17
Trump Duke 2016 sarcasmo Jun 2016 #22
Working in Trump's favor is the fact that the Republicans are spineless. nyquil_man Jun 2016 #23
The GOP has very different rules Gothmog Jun 2016 #24
I think the calculus has been run quaker bill Jun 2016 #25

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
3. True.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jun 2016

But while there are Bernie supporters like myself who don't think Clinton is particularly honest or progressive, we will toe the line given the alternative. Yes, we feel a bit like an abused spouse with no where to go. But such in life.

Republicans, not so much. 60% of the Republican voters voted for someone besides Trump. They hate his guts and are ready to burn the bed.

 

LannyDeVaney

(1,033 posts)
5. Really poor comparison in my opinion
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:10 AM
Jun 2016
Yes, we feel a bit like an abused spouse with no where to go.


Seriously?

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
6. Probably a bit dramatic
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:13 AM
Jun 2016

I haven't had any coffee or food because I had to fast for a blood test.

I am kind of pissy.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
14. My point is I will vote for Hillary.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:20 AM
Jun 2016

As will most slightly-disaffected Democrats.

I think Republicans are beyond disaffected with Trump.

Rubio just said he wouldn't trust Trump with the nuclear codes, for example.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
4. yes, and some of those republican 'suspended campaigns' aren't releasing their delegates either.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:05 AM
Jun 2016

Our D campaigns of course need to go anti trump, but there needs to be planning if trump is switched for cruz, jeb! and Rubio.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
9. Rand Paul
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:15 AM
Jun 2016

Is the name being battered about by my friends still in the game.

He's well-liked by Jeb and Cruz.

Wounded Bear

(58,645 posts)
11. Meh...
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:18 AM
Jun 2016

if they do switch, whoever they switch to would be weaker than Trump. That's definitely a 'lose for principle' strategy for them.

But hey

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
18. republican party is already 'ruined',if they run trump in GE its EPIC disaster for associated Rs.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:31 AM
Jun 2016

This election is what Republicans deserve, they built that Bullshit mountain by allowing bigots and baggers to set their agenda.

Wounded Bear

(58,645 posts)
19. No disagreement here...
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:36 AM
Jun 2016

wounds are self-inflicted. They let 'populist' hate talk radio and TV drive their agenda and recruit their base.

There used to be moderate Repubs. Now they've all been driven to the Democratic Pary, which has drug us to the right far, far too much for good health. The "new" base is trying to drag it back, and hopefully will succeed, if only just a little for now.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
8. Oh, David French!
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:14 AM
Jun 2016

Still working that third party angle, NRO? Yeah, I'm sure that all the Republican voters (remember them?) that handed the nomination to Donald Trump would be just as fine as frog hair to have the party elders and elites descend from Bullshit Mountain to inform them that while the cognoscenti appreciated the voters' input, they made the wrong choice. Here, let us present you with who you should have voted for: Insert name here .

If that's what you're thinking, a little friendly advice: Whatever the Republicans have budgeted for security in Cleveland, triple it.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
12. Legally, he's correct
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:18 AM
Jun 2016

Whether they have the balls to do it depends on how bad Trumps starts to smell between now and then.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
20. And knowing what a calm, stable bunch Trump voters are
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 12:00 PM
Jun 2016

I'm sure they'll passively stand aside when their betters decide who their party nominee should be. Since it's legal and stuff.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
21. It would be interesting
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 12:08 PM
Jun 2016

But the Trump supporters are merely a plurality --40% or so of Republicans.

If the TEA Party types (e.g., Cruz) and the establishment types (e.g., Jeb!) unify --- they would have the majority.

But, yeah, it would be ugly.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
13. So what's the point of having all state by state primaries??
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:18 AM
Jun 2016

If the delegates can vote however they want?

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
15. Makes people feel good
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:22 AM
Jun 2016

It's all a show.

We live in a Republic, not a Democracy.

You vote for people who you think will represent your goals. They may have other ideas.

RussBLib

(9,006 posts)
16. I'm wondering who in their right mind...
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:27 AM
Jun 2016

in the GOP would go out and stump for Trump.

Why not put a tire loaded with concrete around your neck and jump into the river?

Gman

(24,780 posts)
17. Their's is a convoluted argument
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:29 AM
Jun 2016

That requires assumptions and assertions to get there. Relying solely n freedom of speech as an argument is extremely thin. The GOP rules say they're bound on the first ballot. The establishment 's only chance is ramrod rules changes when they don't have the votes to do. I'm .

nyquil_man

(1,443 posts)
23. Working in Trump's favor is the fact that the Republicans are spineless.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:29 PM
Jun 2016

It's one of the few things he's been right about.

Gothmog

(145,129 posts)
24. The GOP has very different rules
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:25 PM
Jun 2016

The GOP rules bind delegates but the candidate does not have approval rights over delegates. Democratic rules provide for candidate approval of delegates who are not bound

quaker bill

(8,224 posts)
25. I think the calculus has been run
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 07:21 AM
Jun 2016

And the PTB on the R side thinks they survive better losing the Whitehouse in Nov and hanging on to as much of the Senate and House as they can. This scenario is compared to dumping Trump at the convention and having that wrecking ball go third party or simply spending some of his money to damage their candidates all around the country.

I expect the Don to be the candidate because it will keep him occupied and somewhat controlled until after the election, and for most of the GOP to run away from him. Watch the GOP money, my guess is that much more of it will go down ballot than usual.

In short, if he is the candidate, most of the damage he will do will be to himself. If they dump him, he will spend his time and money damaging others.

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