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Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:26 AM

 

I don't give a flying fuck if the murderer was an Islamist Jihadist or an xian nutcase

It's not a fucking competition between the left and the right about who the bad guy is and if he belongs to the group hated most by either the left or the right.

I deplore these conversations that always pop up here when something this horrific occurs. They are so cruel and meaningless and meant to gain political advantage in the crudest and cruelest of ways.

What matters beyond, of course, the victims and those grieving them, is addressing the ease with which murderous fuckwads can access certain guns.

I'm not a crier. But I've been weeping all morning. I don't know why this particular horror has struck me so, but it has.

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Reply I don't give a flying fuck if the murderer was an Islamist Jihadist or an xian nutcase (Original post)
cali Jun 2016 OP
Cooley Hurd Jun 2016 #1
apcalc Jun 2016 #2
malaise Jun 2016 #3
cali Jun 2016 #4
The2ndWheel Jun 2016 #5
cali Jun 2016 #6
The2ndWheel Jun 2016 #10
edhopper Jun 2016 #9
cali Jun 2016 #12
edhopper Jun 2016 #15
cali Jun 2016 #18
edhopper Jun 2016 #20
The2ndWheel Jun 2016 #14
edhopper Jun 2016 #16
DerekG Jun 2016 #7
cali Jun 2016 #8
DerekG Jun 2016 #11
Oneironaut Jun 2016 #13
smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #17
ryan_cats Jun 2016 #19

Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:31 AM

1. I completely agree...

 

There's time for all of that to be sorted out. Right now, there are many dead from this horrific act. My thoughts are not to immediately place blame, but are with the families and friends of the victims.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:32 AM

2. It isn't just guns, but religious extremism and

The inability of some ultra religious to let others live their lives.
I am not singling out any religion, but am singling out intolerance.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:32 AM

3. Cali it's worse than that

It's a gay-hating crime of unimaginable proportions and it matters that he set out to slaughter gay Americans.

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Response to malaise (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:35 AM

4. and we have no idea about motive as of yet- no matter what his father says

 

this isn't the time to be speculating.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:38 AM

5. Isn't the gun part there political?

Anything that happens becomes about gaining political advantage. That's just how life works in society. It's a tug of war. Something happens, then one side says this and that needs to happen, then the other side says slow down, this doesn't represent everyone on this side of the debate. Then that side says something about something that happened on the other side, and how this and that needs to happen, and then the first side says slow down, that doesn't represent everyone on this side of the debate.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:39 AM

6. sure, but doesn't it make sense to not start out with the thesis that fits your particular bias?

 

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Response to cali (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:55 AM

10. Absoutely. We saw that with the Boston bombing.

Just using one example among many.

Reality is usually complex. Like this case, is it anti-gay, or it is Islamic? Is it both? Well his father said it was one instance of a gay couple kissing. That's like a neighbor saying my neighbor was such a quiet guy, never would've seen this coming. I can't imagine 1 thing set someone off to go and shoot 100 people, killing at least 50. If this guy is somewhere around 30 years old, he's been around a while. One kiss made him snap? Where has he been? He hasn't seen that before? He doesn't know the concept exists?

But yeah, it makes total sense not to jump right into your own biases when something happens. People are human though.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:51 AM

9. So when can we talk

about dealing with these types of weapons?

I don't want to discuss it "too soon".

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Response to edhopper (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:58 AM

12. you miss my point. It was right in the op.

 

I discussed it there. That is the conversation that can't happen too soon.

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Response to cali (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:02 AM

15. I was replying to 2ndWheel

not your OP.

He said the gun part was merely political.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:09 AM

18. my apologies. So sorry.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:13 AM

20. No problem

and he didn't actually say what I thought he said anyway.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:02 AM

14. Well there's nothing to stop anyone from talking about anything as soon as they want

That's part of the tug of war within society. Whatever happens to be your issue, if you talk about it after something happens, someone will inevitably say too soon, because that issue is also important to them, they're just on the other side of it.

I was just saying that making it about guns is also political. Everything eventually becomes political. We're subjective human beings. We can't escape it.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:03 AM

16. Thanks for the

clarification. I missed that you were making a wider point.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:44 AM

7. Fellow Bernie supporter: Ignore Islamic extremism at your peril

For many decades, the American Empire has stirred the veritable hornet's nest that is the Middle East--culminating with the second Iraq invasion--and now the wackos are taking the fight to our shores.

The only way out of this is by exiting the Middle East pronto and diverting the obscene military budget to safeguarding the homefront while rebuilding our infrastructure. Sadly, neither Attila the Trump nor Neocon Clinton will even entertain the notion.

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Response to DerekG (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:45 AM

8. No shit sherlock. sorry to be short, but you entirely missed my point.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:56 AM

11. I suppose we have different viewpoints

I'm a firm advocate for aggressively tightening gun control laws, but I'm not as confident as other liberals that ambitious psychotics can be kept from their guns.

I'm far more disturbed by the ongoing Terror War (in which Obama and Clinton share grievous culpability), which is radicalizing societies and exposing our own people to immense danger.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:02 AM

13. Sorry. Now is the time to talk about this.

It's not about getting a political edge. It is about refusing to put our heads in the sand and talk about how to fix this world. It's not a competition - it's understanding why this event happened, and how to prevent it in the future. We need to talk about religion (a currently taboo topic in the media). We need to talk about bigotry.

We hear "Now is not the time" after every mass shooting. The period of "not the time" continues until the shooting has faded from memory, and the period of time where a useful conversation could occur has passed. Then, the next mass shooting happens for the exact same reason, and the same walls to having a constructive debate about why a shooting occurs go up again.

You said we need to address gun violence. Well, the media says the same thing you do here - "Now is not the time to politicize this tragedy by talking about guns." We need to stop ignoring the problem "out of respect to the dead" and do something.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:04 AM

17. My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

What a horrible, tragic occurrence.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:11 AM

19. Once the shock

Once the shock of this depravity wears off to be replaced by anger, I am sure I will have something else to say.

Serendipity being what it is, this seems appropriate.

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