I don't give a flying fuck if the murderer was an Islamist Jihadist or an xian nutcase

[cali]

It's not a fucking competition between the left and the right about who the bad guy is and if he belongs to the group hated most by either the left or the right.

I deplore these conversations that always pop up here when something this horrific occurs. They are so cruel and meaningless and meant to gain political advantage in the crudest and cruelest of ways.

What matters beyond, of course, the victims and those grieving them, is addressing the ease with which murderous fuckwads can access certain guns.

I'm not a crier. But I've been weeping all morning. I don't know why this particular horror has struck me so, but it has.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. I completely agree...

There's time for all of that to be sorted out. Right now, there are many dead from this horrific act. My thoughts are not to immediately place blame, but are with the families and friends of the victims.

[apcalc]

2. It isn't just guns, but religious extremism and

The inability of some ultra religious to let others live their lives.
I am not singling out any religion, but am singling out intolerance.

[malaise]

3. Cali it's worse than that

It's a gay-hating crime of unimaginable proportions and it matters that he set out to slaughter gay Americans.

[cali]

4. and we have no idea about motive as of yet- no matter what his father says

this isn't the time to be speculating.

[The2ndWheel]

5. Isn't the gun part there political?

Anything that happens becomes about gaining political advantage. That's just how life works in society. It's a tug of war. Something happens, then one side says this and that needs to happen, then the other side says slow down, this doesn't represent everyone on this side of the debate. Then that side says something about something that happened on the other side, and how this and that needs to happen, and then the first side says slow down, that doesn't represent everyone on this side of the debate.

[cali]

6. sure, but doesn't it make sense to not start out with the thesis that fits your particular bias?

[The2ndWheel]

10. Absoutely. We saw that with the Boston bombing.

Just using one example among many.

Reality is usually complex. Like this case, is it anti-gay, or it is Islamic? Is it both? Well his father said it was one instance of a gay couple kissing. That's like a neighbor saying my neighbor was such a quiet guy, never would've seen this coming. I can't imagine 1 thing set someone off to go and shoot 100 people, killing at least 50. If this guy is somewhere around 30 years old, he's been around a while. One kiss made him snap? Where has he been? He hasn't seen that before? He doesn't know the concept exists?

But yeah, it makes total sense not to jump right into your own biases when something happens. People are human though.

[edhopper]

9. So when can we talk

about dealing with these types of weapons?

I don't want to discuss it "too soon".

[cali]

12. you miss my point. It was right in the op.

I discussed it there. That is the conversation that can't happen too soon.

[edhopper]

15. I was replying to 2ndWheel

not your OP.

He said the gun part was merely political.

[cali]

18. my apologies. So sorry.

[edhopper]

20. No problem

and he didn't actually say what I thought he said anyway.

[The2ndWheel]

14. Well there's nothing to stop anyone from talking about anything as soon as they want

That's part of the tug of war within society. Whatever happens to be your issue, if you talk about it after something happens, someone will inevitably say too soon, because that issue is also important to them, they're just on the other side of it.

I was just saying that making it about guns is also political. Everything eventually becomes political. We're subjective human beings. We can't escape it.

[edhopper]

16. Thanks for the

clarification. I missed that you were making a wider point.

[DerekG]

7. Fellow Bernie supporter: Ignore Islamic extremism at your peril

For many decades, the American Empire has stirred the veritable hornet's nest that is the Middle East--culminating with the second Iraq invasion--and now the wackos are taking the fight to our shores.

The only way out of this is by exiting the Middle East pronto and diverting the obscene military budget to safeguarding the homefront while rebuilding our infrastructure. Sadly, neither Attila the Trump nor Neocon Clinton will even entertain the notion.

[cali]

8. No shit sherlock. sorry to be short, but you entirely missed my point.

[DerekG]

11. I suppose we have different viewpoints

I'm a firm advocate for aggressively tightening gun control laws, but I'm not as confident as other liberals that ambitious psychotics can be kept from their guns.

I'm far more disturbed by the ongoing Terror War (in which Obama and Clinton share grievous culpability), which is radicalizing societies and exposing our own people to immense danger.

[Oneironaut]

13. Sorry. Now is the time to talk about this.

It's not about getting a political edge. It is about refusing to put our heads in the sand and talk about how to fix this world. It's not a competition - it's understanding why this event happened, and how to prevent it in the future. We need to talk about religion (a currently taboo topic in the media). We need to talk about bigotry.

We hear "Now is not the time" after every mass shooting. The period of "not the time" continues until the shooting has faded from memory, and the period of time where a useful conversation could occur has passed. Then, the next mass shooting happens for the exact same reason, and the same walls to having a constructive debate about why a shooting occurs go up again.

You said we need to address gun violence. Well, the media says the same thing you do here - "Now is not the time to politicize this tragedy by talking about guns." We need to stop ignoring the problem "out of respect to the dead" and do something.

[smirkymonkey]

17. My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

What a horrible, tragic occurrence.

[ryan_cats]

19. Once the shock

Once the shock of this depravity wears off to be replaced by anger, I am sure I will have something else to say.

Serendipity being what it is, this seems appropriate.