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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:11 AM Jun 2016

Reclassify semi-automatics with detachable magazines under the NFA

Require a Federal license for any new acquisitions (including resale or passing down among family members of current weapons). It doesn't necessarily need to be as stringent as the current full FFL's (for instance you could have a "mini" license that doesn't allow selling weapons or keeping automatic weapons). Include handguns (that was what Cho used at Virginia Tech, and what about 95% of gun murderers use anyways). If you want a modern-styled weapon, it needs to have a fixed magazine reloaded one round at a time.

Don't fall for the red herring of an assault weapons ban. That keeps this type of weapon legal but mandates it not be able to mount a bayonet or have a grip of a certain shape. It also polls worse than banning semi-autos with detachable magazines despite being much less restrictive (though that may well just be the fact that few people have any idea what this stuff means).

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Reclassify semi-automatics with detachable magazines under the NFA (Original Post) Recursion Jun 2016 OP
Thank you, if its DESIGNED to kill humans efficiently it should be classified uponit7771 Jun 2016 #1
And personally I'd focus on handguns Recursion Jun 2016 #11
The problem with that suggestion is extant weapons. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #2
Yup. It's a big haul Recursion Jun 2016 #4
I just have a "pick your battles" problem with such suggestions. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #10
So we are supposed to sit around and let tens of millions more to be manufactured. Hoyt Jun 2016 #5
I think that's the big issue: this is something that could bend the production curve Recursion Jun 2016 #23
I know absolutely nothing about guns. auntpurl Jun 2016 #3
definitions melm00se Jun 2016 #8
Thank you very much auntpurl Jun 2016 #12
I'll do my best Recursion Jun 2016 #9
Thank you very much, that was extremely helpful auntpurl Jun 2016 #14
Can guns with detachable magazines be handguns OR rifles? melm00se Jun 2016 #15
And most are handguns for that matter Recursion Jun 2016 #21
Sorry, one more question. auntpurl Jun 2016 #16
OK, so if one were going to be extremely pedantic a "clip" is something else Recursion Jun 2016 #18
Ok, I understand now. Thank you again for clarifying. auntpurl Jun 2016 #22
Traditionally a clip held 5-10 rounds of ammo by the rear rim, and are used to jmg257 Jun 2016 #19
Thank you for the information - this is all new to me auntpurl Jun 2016 #26
Guns were banned from being taken into this club under Florida law. Kang Colby Jun 2016 #6
It is illegal for people to steal money from banks. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #7
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #13
Here we go... tallahasseedem Jun 2016 #17
It is better for 50+ people to lose all their rights and their lives Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #20
Seems to me the detachable magazine is the key in all this. DCBob Jun 2016 #24
Yes, exactly Recursion Jun 2016 #25

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
11. And personally I'd focus on handguns
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:15 PM
Jun 2016

That's what's killing people; horrific incidents like this can be kind of misleading in that sense.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
2. The problem with that suggestion is extant weapons.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:17 AM
Jun 2016

Literally tens of millions...and hundreds of millions of detachable magazines.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
4. Yup. It's a big haul
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:19 AM
Jun 2016

But if we're going to charge this hill I want us to finally have a law that at least makes sense we're pushing.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
10. I just have a "pick your battles" problem with such suggestions.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:11 PM
Jun 2016

I think extant weapons of those types, in such vast numbers, make such a plan effectively impossible. Voluntary compliance would be minimal, and aggressive enforcement has far too high a downside.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
5. So we are supposed to sit around and let tens of millions more to be manufactured.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:22 AM
Jun 2016

Your support and excuses for guns are well known.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
23. I think that's the big issue: this is something that could bend the production curve
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:22 PM
Jun 2016

If it becomes more of a pain in the ass to buy these new, eventually that will change the market.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
3. I know absolutely nothing about guns.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:17 AM
Jun 2016

But I would like to advocate for this position. Can you break it down so a child/person who knows nothing about guns can understand?

What is the NFA? What is a detachable magazine? What does "classifying" mean?

I think most people don't understand this stuff.

melm00se

(5,001 posts)
8. definitions
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jun 2016

NFA = National Firearms Act

Classifying (as it relates to NFA) = firearms are classified within the NFA. the one most referenced are Title II weapons which require extensive background checks and special tax stamps to own

Detachable magazine

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
9. I'll do my best
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:52 AM
Jun 2016

(If any of this is too elementary sorry; I just want to start from zero-knowledge for anyone reading.)

A bullet is what comes out of a gun when it's fired. That bullet is sold as a "round", which is the bullet as well as a brass cylinder containing gunpowder.

The round sits in what's called the chamber of the gun, at the back of the barrel. When the gun is fired, the bullet goes out of the barrel and the cylinder stays.

What happens next is what's important in terms of this suggestion.

In a manual-action gun, the shooter has to do something to open the chamber, get the cylinder out, and put a new round in.

In a revolver, a larger cylinder with multiple (usually six) chambers rotates , and those chambers have to be emptied and reloaded after all six are fired.

In a semi-automatic gun, the power from the recoil (or hot gas) is used to empty the chamber and pull the next round from a storage place. That storage place is called a magazine.

A gun can have an internal magazine, which you then have to feed individual rounds into one at a time. Or it can have a detachable magazine, which you take out and replace with another detachable magazine that you've preloaded while planning your rampage. Guns that are semi-automatic and accept detachable magazines are capable of firing the most bullets in a given period of time.

The NFA is the Federal law that makes you need a license to sell many guns in many circumstances (I'd like to see that become all guns in all circumstances), as well as making it prohibitively expensive and difficult to own, say, a machinegun.

Now, many people seem to think that the Assault Weapons Ban banned those types of guns, but it did not. It said if a weapon had those capabilities, it could not have a bayonet mount or have a grip of a certain shape. I don't want to go down that road again.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
14. Thank you very much, that was extremely helpful
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:22 PM
Jun 2016

Can guns with detachable magazines be handguns OR rifles?

I literally knew nothing of what you said except the bullet comes out of the gun, so no, it definitely wasn't too elementary. I loathe guns, but that doesn't mean I need to be ignorant of them or else I cannot advocate for gun control from a position of intelligence.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
16. Sorry, one more question.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:28 PM
Jun 2016

I see on tv shows police call a rectangular thing that they shove into the bottom of a gun a "clip". Is that a detachable magazine? If so, are those considered semi-automatic weapons?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
18. OK, so if one were going to be extremely pedantic a "clip" is something else
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:37 PM
Jun 2016

but let's pass over that for now because in casual use it's kind of just come to mean "magazine".

If so, are those considered semi-automatic weapons?

There are some rifles that are manual action and use detachable magazines (they're popular with hunters and some competitive target shooters). The ones I can think of are pretty expensive though.

Honestly I think handguns are the bigger problem anyways...

And just to clarify:
Semi-automatic refers to how the round gets from the magazine to the chamber. If that magazine is detachable, and the gun is semi-automatic (these are at least in principle unrelated questions), its rate of fire over a long-ish period of time (say, a minute) can be incredibly high.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
19. Traditionally a clip held 5-10 rounds of ammo by the rear rim, and are used to
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:37 PM
Jun 2016

Recharge the magazine, often internal to the weapon, including bolt action repeating rifles.

The terms have become more interchangable lately but should be 2 different devices.


Semi auto refers to the action - the way the next round is introduced into the chamber; semi autos can have a fixed magazine, which may be clip-fed.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
7. It is illegal for people to steal money from banks.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:34 AM
Jun 2016

Banks still get robbed.
I guess that law does no good.

We need to do something rather than stand by and say, people are going to commit mass murder anyway.

Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #7)

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
20. It is better for 50+ people to lose all their rights and their lives
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:45 PM
Jun 2016

Than to pass reasonable gun regulations?

That is your argument?

I don't agree with that.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
24. Seems to me the detachable magazine is the key in all this.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:28 PM
Jun 2016

No matter what the size shape etc. if someone can keep reloading with preloaded magazines he/she can do alot of damage in a hurry. Regulate the magazines and guns that utilize them.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
25. Yes, exactly
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:37 PM
Jun 2016

I mean, the vast, vast majority of murders never need to get past the first bullet, but since mass shootings are what moves the public dial sometimes you have to go where the passion is rather than what might be the absolute best policy...

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