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Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:11 AM

Reclassify semi-automatics with detachable magazines under the NFA

Require a Federal license for any new acquisitions (including resale or passing down among family members of current weapons). It doesn't necessarily need to be as stringent as the current full FFL's (for instance you could have a "mini" license that doesn't allow selling weapons or keeping automatic weapons). Include handguns (that was what Cho used at Virginia Tech, and what about 95% of gun murderers use anyways). If you want a modern-styled weapon, it needs to have a fixed magazine reloaded one round at a time.

Don't fall for the red herring of an assault weapons ban. That keeps this type of weapon legal but mandates it not be able to mount a bayonet or have a grip of a certain shape. It also polls worse than banning semi-autos with detachable magazines despite being much less restrictive (though that may well just be the fact that few people have any idea what this stuff means).

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Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply Reclassify semi-automatics with detachable magazines under the NFA (Original post)
Recursion Jun 2016 OP
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #1
Recursion Jun 2016 #11
Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #2
Recursion Jun 2016 #4
Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #10
Hoyt Jun 2016 #5
Recursion Jun 2016 #23
auntpurl Jun 2016 #3
melm00se Jun 2016 #8
auntpurl Jun 2016 #12
Recursion Jun 2016 #9
auntpurl Jun 2016 #14
melm00se Jun 2016 #15
Recursion Jun 2016 #21
auntpurl Jun 2016 #16
Recursion Jun 2016 #18
auntpurl Jun 2016 #22
jmg257 Jun 2016 #19
auntpurl Jun 2016 #26
Kang Colby Jun 2016 #6
Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #7
Name removed Jun 2016 #13
tallahasseedem Jun 2016 #17
Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #20
DCBob Jun 2016 #24
Recursion Jun 2016 #25

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:15 AM

1. Thank you, if its DESIGNED to kill humans efficiently it should be classified

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:15 PM

11. And personally I'd focus on handguns

That's what's killing people; horrific incidents like this can be kind of misleading in that sense.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:17 AM

2. The problem with that suggestion is extant weapons.

 

Literally tens of millions...and hundreds of millions of detachable magazines.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:19 AM

4. Yup. It's a big haul

But if we're going to charge this hill I want us to finally have a law that at least makes sense we're pushing.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:11 PM

10. I just have a "pick your battles" problem with such suggestions.

 

I think extant weapons of those types, in such vast numbers, make such a plan effectively impossible. Voluntary compliance would be minimal, and aggressive enforcement has far too high a downside.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:22 AM

5. So we are supposed to sit around and let tens of millions more to be manufactured.

Your support and excuses for guns are well known.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:22 PM

23. I think that's the big issue: this is something that could bend the production curve

If it becomes more of a pain in the ass to buy these new, eventually that will change the market.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:17 AM

3. I know absolutely nothing about guns.

But I would like to advocate for this position. Can you break it down so a child/person who knows nothing about guns can understand?

What is the NFA? What is a detachable magazine? What does "classifying" mean?

I think most people don't understand this stuff.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:35 AM

8. definitions

NFA = National Firearms Act

Classifying (as it relates to NFA) = firearms are classified within the NFA. the one most referenced are Title II weapons which require extensive background checks and special tax stamps to own

Detachable magazine

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Response to melm00se (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:18 PM

12. Thank you very much

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:52 AM

9. I'll do my best

(If any of this is too elementary sorry; I just want to start from zero-knowledge for anyone reading.)

A bullet is what comes out of a gun when it's fired. That bullet is sold as a "round", which is the bullet as well as a brass cylinder containing gunpowder.

The round sits in what's called the chamber of the gun, at the back of the barrel. When the gun is fired, the bullet goes out of the barrel and the cylinder stays.

What happens next is what's important in terms of this suggestion.

In a manual-action gun, the shooter has to do something to open the chamber, get the cylinder out, and put a new round in.

In a revolver, a larger cylinder with multiple (usually six) chambers rotates , and those chambers have to be emptied and reloaded after all six are fired.

In a semi-automatic gun, the power from the recoil (or hot gas) is used to empty the chamber and pull the next round from a storage place. That storage place is called a magazine.

A gun can have an internal magazine, which you then have to feed individual rounds into one at a time. Or it can have a detachable magazine, which you take out and replace with another detachable magazine that you've preloaded while planning your rampage. Guns that are semi-automatic and accept detachable magazines are capable of firing the most bullets in a given period of time.

The NFA is the Federal law that makes you need a license to sell many guns in many circumstances (I'd like to see that become all guns in all circumstances), as well as making it prohibitively expensive and difficult to own, say, a machinegun.

Now, many people seem to think that the Assault Weapons Ban banned those types of guns, but it did not. It said if a weapon had those capabilities, it could not have a bayonet mount or have a grip of a certain shape. I don't want to go down that road again.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:22 PM

14. Thank you very much, that was extremely helpful

Can guns with detachable magazines be handguns OR rifles?

I literally knew nothing of what you said except the bullet comes out of the gun, so no, it definitely wasn't too elementary. I loathe guns, but that doesn't mean I need to be ignorant of them or else I cannot advocate for gun control from a position of intelligence.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:26 PM

15. Can guns with detachable magazines be handguns OR rifles?

yes

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Response to melm00se (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 02:15 PM

21. And most are handguns for that matter

Which, again, is where I'd rather focus, personally.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:28 PM

16. Sorry, one more question.

I see on tv shows police call a rectangular thing that they shove into the bottom of a gun a "clip". Is that a detachable magazine? If so, are those considered semi-automatic weapons?

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:37 PM

18. OK, so if one were going to be extremely pedantic a "clip" is something else

but let's pass over that for now because in casual use it's kind of just come to mean "magazine".

If so, are those considered semi-automatic weapons?

There are some rifles that are manual action and use detachable magazines (they're popular with hunters and some competitive target shooters). The ones I can think of are pretty expensive though.

Honestly I think handguns are the bigger problem anyways...

And just to clarify:
Semi-automatic refers to how the round gets from the magazine to the chamber. If that magazine is detachable, and the gun is semi-automatic (these are at least in principle unrelated questions), its rate of fire over a long-ish period of time (say, a minute) can be incredibly high.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:18 PM

22. Ok, I understand now. Thank you again for clarifying.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:37 PM

19. Traditionally a clip held 5-10 rounds of ammo by the rear rim, and are used to

Recharge the magazine, often internal to the weapon, including bolt action repeating rifles.

The terms have become more interchangable lately but should be 2 different devices.


Semi auto refers to the action - the way the next round is introduced into the chamber; semi autos can have a fixed magazine, which may be clip-fed.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:09 PM

26. Thank you for the information - this is all new to me

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:27 AM

6. Guns were banned from being taken into this club under Florida law.

Expanding NFA won't do any good.

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Response to Kang Colby (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:34 AM

7. It is illegal for people to steal money from banks.

Banks still get robbed.
I guess that law does no good.

We need to do something rather than stand by and say, people are going to commit mass murder anyway.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #7)


Response to Name removed (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:30 PM

17. Here we go...

NO civilian needs a semi automatic weapon. 50 people are DEAD...get a grip.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:45 PM

20. It is better for 50+ people to lose all their rights and their lives

Than to pass reasonable gun regulations?

That is your argument?

I don't agree with that.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:28 PM

24. Seems to me the detachable magazine is the key in all this.

No matter what the size shape etc. if someone can keep reloading with preloaded magazines he/she can do alot of damage in a hurry. Regulate the magazines and guns that utilize them.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #24)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:37 PM

25. Yes, exactly

I mean, the vast, vast majority of murders never need to get past the first bullet, but since mass shootings are what moves the public dial sometimes you have to go where the passion is rather than what might be the absolute best policy...

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