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Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:39 PM

So, you can be on the terror watch list, but still legally buy weapons!?!?!?!?

Just heard on CNN.

Yet, I've never even had a traffic ticket, but I have to let people x-ray me, before I can get on a plane!?!?

WTF!?!?!?!

46 replies, 1265 views

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Reply So, you can be on the terror watch list, but still legally buy weapons!?!?!?!? (Original post)
Siwsan Jun 2016 OP
Gomez163 Jun 2016 #1
Joe the Revelator Jun 2016 #2
ileus Jun 2016 #3
Brickbat Jun 2016 #10
Siwsan Jun 2016 #14
Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #24
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #15
jpak Jun 2016 #28
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #36
jwirr Jun 2016 #4
Kang Colby Jun 2016 #8
Kang Colby Jun 2016 #5
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #6
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #37
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #39
Southerncomfy Jun 2016 #7
onehandle Jun 2016 #9
EX500rider Jun 2016 #13
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #38
Lint Head Jun 2016 #11
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #12
Siwsan Jun 2016 #18
Amishman Jun 2016 #21
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #42
KeepItReal Jun 2016 #16
Nye Bevan Jun 2016 #17
Siwsan Jun 2016 #20
X_Digger Jun 2016 #23
uponit7771 Jun 2016 #40
X_Digger Jun 2016 #46
JI7 Jun 2016 #19
Crunchy Frog Jun 2016 #22
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #43
NutmegYankee Jun 2016 #25
Lance Bass esquire Jun 2016 #26
deathrind Jun 2016 #27
Siwsan Jun 2016 #32
MaggieD Jun 2016 #29
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #30
Siwsan Jun 2016 #31
JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #33
Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #44
Vinca Jun 2016 #34
NutmegYankee Jun 2016 #35
Raine1967 Jun 2016 #41
jmg257 Jun 2016 #45

Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:40 PM

1. The NRA doesn't want to lose them as customers.

 

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:40 PM

2. It's insanity.

 

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:41 PM

3. Who is on the list and how did they get there...Tell us that first.

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Response to ileus (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:43 PM

10. ^^

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Response to ileus (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:45 PM

14. Anyone being on the list isn't automatically prevented from purchasing guns

I would think that would be an automatic red flag.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:15 PM

24. If they're such a threat why not just imprison or deport them?

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Response to ileus (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:45 PM

15. I wonder if the OP can also tell us how you get off the "list."

 

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:38 PM

28. Join the NRA

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:01 PM

36. Blup. (Phew!). Your's for the 5th Amendment...

 

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:41 PM

4. I also read that he was allowed to carry because he had been

approved as a security guard. We are going to have to wait until all of this comes out before we know what really happened.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:43 PM

8. False.

Florida bans guns in clubs/bars....even for those with permits.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:42 PM

5. It's called due process.

Terror watch lists are a product of the Bush/Cheney era. The ACLU does not support using terror watch lists to deny rights, including gun purchases.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:42 PM

6. AMEN!! If you're on the FBI radar then fuck that... you can't buy a gun

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:05 PM

37. As an old lefty activist, my heart is warmed by your faith in the FBI's "process."

 



How many other Amendments you wanna junk?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #37)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:06 PM

39. Refine the process, bout as easy as it gets

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:42 PM

7. Really ridiculous.

 

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:43 PM

9. Buying a weapon should automatically put you on the terror watch list. nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:45 PM

13. You don't think 80 million American's being on the list might dilute it's purpose a bit? lol

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:06 PM

38. Ah, he/she is magnanimous to a falt.

 

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:44 PM

11. The NRA can go to hell!!!

Wayne Le Piss Ant is a piece os feces who needs to be flushed down Satan's toilet.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:44 PM

12. you do not care about due process

 

how are people put on and how can you dispute being on it?

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:51 PM

18. What???

Seriously.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:04 PM

21. the point he is trying to make is that it is a secret list with no appeal process

There needs to be proper due process and accountability added, especially if we expand the use of these lists.

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Response to Amishman (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:08 PM

42. Yeah, but when it involves guns, "liberals" begin to sound less so.

 

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:46 PM

16. Yes. From the President himself:

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:51 PM

17. I'm as big a supporter of gun control as anybody here,

but I hate the concept of someone in authority being able to take someone's rights away by putting them on a "watch list" with no due process.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:55 PM

20. If you are on the list, I would think it would be a stronger investigative process

I don't care if your name is Omar, Peter, Paula or Seamus.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:12 PM

23. How about the late Sen. Ted Kennedy? (The name 'T. Kennedy' was a 'watched' name for a time.)

That's one of the problems with such 'lists'. They often don't identify actual people, just names. And of course, there' no due process before removal of one's rights.

Question for you though, should Omar, Peter, Paula, or Seamus be able to vote? I mean, if they're on a list somewhere.. Should they be allowed to go to mosque? If you're okay with removing one right because of a list, why not others?

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:08 PM

40. then refine the list the point still stands

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #40)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:19 PM

46. I'll pose the same question I asked Siwsan..

.. what other constitutionally protected rights should be removed without due process in a secret addition to some list? Free speech? Free exercise of religion? Voting?

How about the right to be free of cruel and unusual punishment and a fair trial? I mean, they're on a watch list, so we should be able to water board them without any kind of conviction, right?

If they're on a terrorist watch list, should we keep them from associating with other known terrorist suspects?

Or, you know, we can actually follow the constitution, and the fourteenth amendment.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 01:54 PM

19. because it's a watch list

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:07 PM

22. But it's all about freeeeeeedumb!

There's no constitutional right to fly on an airplane, and a few dozen deaths here and there is a relatively minor price to pay...

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:12 PM

43. Or to drive. Do you support "lists" to prevent gun purchases, which is a right?

 

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:33 PM

25. There are broad Constitutional (5th Amendment) problems with watch lists.

The main issue for the FBI is the list is secret, and a denial of a purchase would tip people off that they are on the list.

Beyond that, because the list is secret, people cannot challenge being wrongfully put on that list, which makes it illegal to use it to deny rights per the 5th Amendment. An individual would end up in a status like Josef K in Kafka's The Trial.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:37 PM

27. Yes...

You can't take away a persons right to own a well designed tool of death just because you think they are a terrorist...cmon now..

It makes perfect sense...right?

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Response to deathrind (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:53 PM

32. I give up and am going to make another strong Gin and Tonic

Sometimes life is just too exhausting.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:40 PM

29. NRA (nt)

 

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:42 PM

30. TSA for the most part uses millimeter waves, not x-rays.

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #30)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:51 PM

31. That is parsing and does not negate my point

I am sick to the depth of my soul of nit picking.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #31)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 03:55 PM

33. Well one is harmful to the body.

And it isn't as if you have addressed the due process concerns anyway.

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #33)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:16 PM

44. There are practical problems with a watch list as Nutmeg in #25 notes.

 

No better way than to assess your standing with the intelligence community than to go through the NICS! Cheap, easy, fast.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:16 PM

34. I've heard Republicans argue that people on the "no fly" list should be able to buy guns

because sometimes there are mistakes on the list. I guess the choice is inconvenience a person inadvertently put on the list or make sure bad guys are able to buy guns. The GOP, for the most part, sides with the bad guy.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #34)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:53 PM

35. Most Democrats argue the same thing, particually when Dubya introduced these lists.

Denying rights due to secret lists is not Democratic at all. It's flat out Unconstitutional. It's a fair argument that the no-Fly provision alone is a denial of the right to travel.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:08 PM

41. Yes.

and Congress made sure to qualify it 6 months ago.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:17 PM

45. Why the fuck are you on a list to ban u from buying guns but stil

Free to be out in the public??

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