Accept Guns As The Price Of Freedom & Living In America

[SoCalMusicLover]

It is an ingrained part of our country's history, and unlike slavery, there will never be a huge social outcry strong enough to change things. There sure ain't gonna be a Civil War to resolve the issue.

People say this is the greatest country in the world. Guys like Trump stand up and say we can make America great again, and one of his ways to do that is MORE GUNS! America Great = More Guns! And guess what, plenty of folks agree with him. EVEN MANY RIGHT HERE ON DU!

In a country where there is extremely little consensus, guns are one issue which crosses party lines. Hillary being elected will change absolutely NOTHING. She will merely break President Obama's record for # of speeches following mass killings.

The bar is raised by the Pulse slaughter though. Be warned, any disgruntled gun owning individual. If you want to be the new champ, you must do better than 49. Don't worry, I'm sure there are a few out there who are thinking they are up to the challenge.

Wrap up the thoughts and prayers. Make sure the media provides coverage of several funerals, with the President making an obligatory appearance along the way. But in the end, move on with life. Because it really is just another facet of life in America.

The bottom line is, your chances of being shot and killed are relatively low. But just enjoy your life as an American, knowing that you could be at a High School, a University, a Middle-School, a Movie Theatre, a 7-11, a post-concert meet & greet, a shopping mall, a Meet Your Representative outside the Supermarket, a Nightclub, a Restaurant, or even asleep in your own bed at home, and suddenly your life might change forever. That's just the price of freedom.

[liberal N proud]

1. That is if you are lucky enough to survive the gun shots

The right to own guns has squashed the right to live!

[katmondoo]

2. No I will not accept it

[Protalker]

3. How abut this?

A 10 round clip max.

[linuxman]

9. How about 20?

[RobertEarl]

18. 3. No more than 3

Maybe just 1. Actually that would be great. Just one bullet allowed at a time. No more mass killings, problem solved!

[linuxman]

24. Glad to see you're sitting out of the productive discussion.

It's cool. The idealistic one is more fun anyway.

[RobertEarl]

27. No. You are

One bullet would save many lives. See? That's what I care about: Innocent lives. It is gunlovers who want 50 round mags who are the real danger.

You can bare your arms. But you can have just one bullet at a time. Everyone is happy!

[linuxman]

28. You're beyond reason.

Enjoy your evening.

[RobertEarl]

33. 10 or 20 or 50 round mags are unreasonable.

A reasonable person can clearly understand that.

Keep you gunz! And keep one bullet at most in each of your gunz! Problem solved.

One gun: One bullet.

The campaign is now under way. Your $100 donation is in the mail, right?

[TeddyR]

50. If a "reasonable person" can clearly understand that magazines that hold more than 9 rounds

Are unreasonable, why hasn't a single state passed a law limiting such magazines? The only states I am aware of with any type of magazine limit are California and Maryland (maybe New York?), and those states have 10 round limits.

[RobertEarl]

65. Obvious, isn't it?

Lawmakers are deadly afraid of the gun nuts. As well they should be.

One Gun - One Bullet, and no need to be too scared anymore.

[TeddyR]

66. Ridiculous

You think California state lawmakers are worried about the NRA? If they were they wouldn't have made concealed carry essentially illegal, or banned magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.

[RobertEarl]

67. Your post is ridiculous

You titled it well.

Of course lawmakers are afraid of the NRA nutz.

[Lizzie Poppet]

32. "Productive" really should incorporate "practical" and "achievable."

That is to say, our time may be better spent discussing measures that actually have at least some chance of being enacted. That might actually succeed if enacted. And so forth...

[RobertEarl]

34. Yeah, it's all worked so well, so far, right?

One Gun, One Bullet.

Everyone is happy and the constitution is followed.

The life I save might be my own?

Fuck the NRA.

[Lizzie Poppet]

35. You're missing the point entirely.

Suggestions that are never going to be implemented aren't the least bit helpful. And you do realize that your "one bullet at a time" idea will never, ever come about, right?

Real, pragmatic, feasible solutions...that's what we need.

[RobertEarl]

37. It is the solution

What's yours?

There is no solution that keeps people alive and follows the 2nd, except limiting the number of bullets allowed in a gun. Machine guns are outlawed because they carry too many bullets that can be fired too fast. The logical conclusion is to take it to the base.

One gun: One bullet.

[Waldorf]

40. They aren't outlawed. No new ones of been produced since 86' for civilian use since the ATF closed

the record books. But if I could find 15k laying around and an owner willing to sell, I can buy it, legally.

[RobertEarl]

43. You are mincing words

Machine guns and other guns can be outlawed,

Guns can be regulated. The number of bullets can be regulated.

One gun, One Bullet, is constitutional.

Fuck the NRA.

[Lizzie Poppet]

41. You're still missing the point!

Let me simplify by way of a question: how do you propose to eliminate the (literally) hundreds of millions of repeating firearms (and similar numbers of detachable magazines) already in the hands of as many as 100 million people in this country? Please tell me you don't think a simple legislative ban would have anything beyond a truly minuscule effect on the above numbers...

[RobertEarl]

44. Really? You have no clue? Clueless are you?

What is YOUR solution?

[Lizzie Poppet]

47. Okay, this is just a waste of time.

I should have recognized far sooner what I was dealing with. Bye.

[RobertEarl]

48. You finally looked in the mirror?

One Bullet per gun, solves everything.

My only concern is saving innocent's lives.

Others may have ulterior motives.

[Lizzie Poppet]

52. If you were really concerned with saving lives, you'd propose something that could actually be enact

Now off to Ignore with you...

[anigbrowl]

53. I think you should answer. How exactly do you propose to implement this?

As far as I can see it'll be an almost instant dead letter based on what you've argued so far. I would also like to see magazine size limits, but I really do not know what to do about the large number of high-capacity magazines already in circulation.

[RoccoR5955]

36. But some gundamentalist ammosexuals like me

need at LEAST 100. We are nearly blind, and those deer are not the things painted red during hunting season. At least 100 if not 1000.

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. The problem with that is extant supply.

There are (literally) hundreds of millions of 11-and-up capacity magazines already in circulation.

[msongs]

4. gun users have killed what 200K people in the past 8 years? no corpse pile will EVER be too high

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

[Eleanors38]

46. 2/3 of that number are suicides. Just setting a high standard for intellectual honesty.

[anigbrowl]

55. So what? Guns make suicide too easy as well

It is not the case that everyone who is suicidal will always and inevitably act on those impulses and do so successfully. Guns facilitate suicide though; as someone with chronic depression that's a big reason for me not wanting to own one.

[Eleanors38]

69. Solving social problems by banning a thing, behavior or status does not work.

It is not American Exceptionalism to suggest people will find alternative measures. Japan has.

[anigbrowl]

70. I have never argued for a ban on guns, so don't expect me to be your straw man .nt

[jpak]

5. The Second Amendment has failed to protect American citizens

It has become a facilitator of crime, mayhem and murder.

Not what the Founders intended

yup

[jonno99]

8. Sorry, you may as well declare that the police have failed to protect American citizens.

If you could blink your eyes and make ALL guns disappear TODAY, you'd just see the Tsarnaev brothers - x1000

These fanatics are determined to kill. Disarming the innocent is not going to change that...

[SoCalMusicLover]

10. MORE GUNS!!!

Maybe we can all shoot each other, and that would solve everything. If it's the people and not the guns, best to wipe out all the people. Gun Logic!

[jonno99]

13. What do you want to "solve" - hate, violence, death? Getting rid of "gunz" solves none of it. nt

[Dem2]

20. Making it ridiculously easy to commit mass-murder has no effect whatsoever on a person's decision

making process. Neither does having a ready instrument to embed a piece of lead into one's own skull. Well, except for all those I know who tried and failed through lesser means because they were not allowed to own a gun.

Amiright?

[jpak]

12. Ban fireworks- and the Tsarnaev brothers would have nothing to fill their pressure cookers with

NRA logic fail.

BTW - the asshole that sold the Orlando Pervert his Precious is an "innocent".

Get those fucking massacre weapons off the street - period.

yup

[jonno99]

14. Using your logic, simply enacting a midnight curfew for everyone would solve MOST of our problems.nt

[jpak]

19. By your logic more guns are the answer to our problems and we should ignore gun massacres

Tell us what Australia did with assault weapons - did the lose mo' freedumb or did it work?

How come in countries with strict gun laws, gun massacres are extremely rare?

Jihadi John cannot just walk into a store in the UK, NZ or Oz and buy an AR-15 and gobs of ammo - like you can in the US.

Gun control works - and the NRA and the gunhumpers are ISIS sympathizers.

yup

[jonno99]

31. It's not rocket science. Looking at just one statistic, rape; the Aussies have seen

a 44% increase of rape since the ban.

So as you say - yup, apparently everything is good down there...

[jpak]

39. Do tell us about gun violence - do not deflect

[jonno99]

59. It's simple really. I'll bet more than one rape victim would have preffered being able to

inflict some "gun violence" on her attacker(s) - rather than suffer rape.

But what do I know - I've never been raped (have you?).

And - maybe women suffering more rape is the price we as a society (like the Aussies) simply need to accept...

[jpak]

60. Your post was a Ted Cruz talking point that has been debunked

and women can still get guns in Australia

case closed

yup

[jonno99]

61. "A Ted Cruz talking point" - Ok, if you say so; I'm not familiar with his

talking points (I guess I could look them up, but what would be the point?)

But if you (and Wapo) are suggesting that sexual assault is not increasing in Australia, you would be perpetuating a non-truth (a lie)...
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime/sexual%20assault.html
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/07/17/sexual-assault-how-common-it-australia
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/02/12/australia-struggles-high-rate-sexual-assault-against-women-study

Perhaps Cruz was erroneously trying to tie the increase in rapes to the gun ban, and to be fair there are many women who wouldn't own a weapon even if they could - it really doesn't matter. The fact that (potential) rape victims are oftentimes (now) left without means of self defense is morally unconscionable.

[jpak]

64. Ted Cruz and you use the same talking point and it has been debunked

read it a weep

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/01/25/ted-cruzs-claim-that-sexual-assaults-rate-went-up-significantly-after-australian-gun-control-laws/


yup

[jonno99]

68. Sorry - two seperate points. nt

[PaulaFarrell]

62. but would she have preferred being shot?

that's the real question

[jonno99]

63. No, the REAL question is: would she have preffered to have a CHOICE? As

I said previously, some would choose to remain un-armed. Maybe they live in a "safe" neighborhood, maybe they have a lot of protectors around (dogs, family, etc.).

But there are many who are often forced to live or travel alone who would prefer to be able to defend themselves if the need arose.

The message I'm getting in this sub-thread is: "sorry ladies - sucks to be you, but it's for the greater good (oh, and good luck with that...)".

[jpak]

49. Your claim about an increase in AU rape is a Ted Cruz talking point debunked by the WaPo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/01/25/ted-cruzs-claim-that-sexual-assaults-rate-went-up-significantly-after-australian-gun-control-laws/

So sorry

yup

[melm00se]

45. Guns have moved from being bought to being

homemade

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/deadly-diy-homemade-guns-hit-sydney-streets-in-record-numbers/news-story/5fdb4a462ef3c50afc70522879813fe7

[packman]

6. Disgusting POS post

Totally inappropriate- Oh, I get it - You were being sarcastic and forgot the smilie

[SoCalMusicLover]

7. What's Inappropriate Is The Fake Compassion

I really wish the gun lovers would come right out and admit it. Guns are here to stay, we need MORE not less of them, and if you want to live in the Great Country Of America, it's the price you pay and risk you take for Freedom.

[Eleanors38]

51. I'll admit this:. Guns ARE here to stay. Doesn't matter if there are more or less. As to...

risks and payments, before I was old enough to fire a gun, I recognized this was a violent country and culture, and there were,/are many risks from many sources. I also recognized that a coherent mythology, a belief in the nation's institutions, and general agreememt on how to improve things was what kept things civilized and, frankly, truly safe. When that goes missing, no law, police force or ordnance regulation will make ANYONE "feel" more safe and risk-free.

And I REPORT this: Our crime rate -- even our "GunCrime®" rate -- is far less than when I was young.

SoCal: What's with the "gun lovers" stuff? Will you "come right out and admit it" that you favor most any measure, regulation, ban as long as it gets in the face of these "lovers" you don't like?

On "Fake Compassion:" When one of these murder junkie spectaculars happens, and right off you hear hateful remarks directed to gun-owners and pro-2A DU members, is this the fake compassion you reference? Thanks.

[uponit7771]

11. accept mortars and grenades too... no... there's a practical middle ground to this

[KamaAina]

16. How about surface-to-air missiles? I live right under an alternate flight path.

[baja-inventor]

23. bring back muskets

those on the right say one purpose is to stop government Yep how about allowing shoulder launch missiles, your own biological agents? Those may stop government a few more hours.

Hey those on the right are always asking what is the founders intent. state of the art guns had really not changed much in 200 or so years so they would not have expected more power.

My position is right now there some baby steps here. Let's start with petition to remove anyone with a carry license to have no complaints ever for abuse of a significant other. Thus a petition in NY to remove the carry permit of Donald Trump. In his honor call it "The Donald beat your wife and Pay Law". Thus all people wanting or with a permit must immediately come in and under penalty of law state they have never beat their significant other and no significant other ever has made such claims.

One step at a time.

What this does is brings the issue right to the front and Trump must either turn in his permit or open the depositions that are sealed that are alleged to have testimony about Trump raping and beating his ex-wife. I believe that was in the Vanity Fair piece.

We also have a great clue to this when recently his lawyer made a non-denial denial. His response was not Donald did not do it, his response was to the effect you can not rape your wife. And note Trumpette never sounded his horn ie stepped up and claimed it was false is the other major clue. He only basically said his Lawyer is wrong. IE that you can rape your wife.

If a petition like this was put up, not that I know NY laws if citizens can do that and have an effect. But if was he would be toast if it could be legally binding on this subject. and we could actually have a real start on a real law that can make a difference. One step at a time.

[One Black Sheep]

15. It isn't a contest, except in the insane minds of psycho killers. I tend to agree with post #6, this

is kind of a gross OP.

I get you are being sarcastic, but it just is kinda in bad taste, I think.

My two cents.

[SwankyXomb]

17. Gun scum and their cold, dead hearts

will never allow any meaningful gun control, or even discussion of the same

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. Your fourth paragraph...

...is one of the most broadly-insulting, assholish things I've ever read here at DU. Bet you wouldn't imply that all Muslims are just itching for a chance to beat their co-religionist's body count, would you?

[SoCalMusicLover]

29. Huh?

First of all, nowhere did I mention Muslims, let alone "all Muslims."

I merely stated that there is likely an individual, he could be a frickin' White, Confederate American born citizen, who is out there thinking that he wants to beat this guy's death count.

Not likely that this individual will succeed, but they will try, because what use is an unused gun when you have some imagined grudge against something.

[Lizzie Poppet]

30. Nor did I claim you did. It was (obviously) an anology.

Clearly an inadequate one. Carry on. This obviously isn't going anywhere...

[KamaAina]

22. So you don't consider Australia a free country?

They were having a similar problem with gun violence and actually did something about it.

[Abq_Sarah]

58. They did something about it because the law allowed it

The 2nd amendment is trickier. It isn't a government granted permission to own firearms, it's a prohibition on the government removing firearms from the hands of citizens. That distinction is big and extremely difficult to overcome.

[The_Casual_Observer]

26. Our thoughts and prayers are with you....

[RoccoR5955]

38. My long term solution.

Ban toy guns and any guns that can be taken for toys for kids. They grow up with these toys, then want the bigger ones when they grow up, thinking that they are as safe as the ones that they had when they were kids. Start early, and they will not want the damn things.

[tritsofme]

42. It would seem that living in a police state would be your safest option

[alarimer]

54. Hell No

Guns are not fucking freedom. Being afraid every time you walk outside because stupid fucking assholes insist on carrying guns everywhere is NOT freedom. It's pretty much the opposite of that.

[sanatanadharma]

57. Accept reality as they have in Bahgdad

Bush exported democracy to the middle east and now the residents of Iraqi cities and towns are having to accept the possibility that any trip to the market might be a "blast"

Cuz death is a small price to pay for freedom

Screw NRAterrorist apologists!