Need DU advice on a new car

[Paula Sims]

Hi there,
Our 2003 SAAB 9.5 might be on its last legs and might need a new transmission. We've already had it rebuilt (couldn't afford another car then) and it's been giving us problems lately.

That said - hubby want another wagon, not an AWD (we do Chicago suburban driving at most) and need room to haul wood (he's a wood worker) and his goalie gear. I'm fine with his wants/needs. My needs are just that - needs: I need to be able to see when I'm backing up (don't trust cameras and sensors) and it has to last at least 20 years. Not joking. We just got rid of our 1987 Honda Accord.

So we're looking at the Subaru Outback (about $35k), Volvo XC70 (about $45k). Anything else we should look at? We just want it to last. I have a personal soft spot for the Volvos (LOVED my 850) and I really like our current VW Jetta (the VW Golf Wagon seems a bit small). We don't want an SUV or crossover (if we can avoid it).

So any suggestions? We're looking now but hopefully can buy by year end.

Thanks!

[Nye Bevan]

1. Don't knock the backup cameras.

When I first had one I was slow to trust it, and it felt so wrong not to be always looking over my shoulder when reversing. But I got used to it fairly quickly and now I depend on it.

[Travis_0004]

8. They will be required soon on all cars

2017 or 2019 I believe. As such most manufacturers are making them standard equipment to get ahead of the regulations.

[OriginalGeek]

75. Already standard on the new Chevy Colorados

I am looking forward to getting one soon. I don't need a big Silverado but I do need to haul stuff. Plus I like the way they look.

Don't know how they would fit into OP's needs but the Colorado is the truck for me.

Rainforest green, please.

[B Calm]

56. Why would you look over your shoulder when you had mirrors? I see

mirrors as your backup camera. Want to laugh your ass off, watch people trying to back down a boat ramp looking over their shoulder.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. Can't go wrong with the Outback... nicest looking wagon too!

[BeyondGeography]

3. Those VW sport wagons have a lot of cargo storage

even though they are smaller. Not telling you anything you don't know since you own one, but our Jetta has almost as much room in the back as the Audi allroad we used to own at about 1/2 the price and almost 2x the mileage. Of course, it's one of those illegal TDI's, but you still get 36 mpg with the gas version.

Our lease is up in August and we'll be sticking with VW. Much better value and I actually like the smaller size because I'm driving/parking in town a lot.

[Dem2]

4. I only buy American brand-names

Sorry, can't help ya...

[hamsterjill]

85. That makes two of us.

Only GM products here. Long family history. Never had a major issue with one.

[LuckyTheDog]

86. I have bought mostly GM cars

I also once owned a Ford and before that, an AMC Matador. I have never had a real "lemon."

[Warren DeMontague]

5. I like Toyotas.

In my experience Volvos aren't worth the extra $. Subarus are good cars but overpriced to my way of thinking.

Hyundai makes good cars, too.

The Toyotas I would recommend are all either SUVs or crossovers, but in my experience they are definitely cars that are engineered to last. Nissan is the same way.

And I second the thing about the backup camera- they're actually a really good idea.

[840high]

14. We are a Toyota family.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Yeah.

I'm partial to Japanese cars. I admit it.

Hyundais are good, too, though.

[malaise]

43. Same here

[womanofthehills]

57. I have a Toyota Rav4 and love it

My 2nd Toyota -

[Zorro]

6. Mazda makes pretty decent vehicles

[rjsquirrel]

62. The best

Zoom zoom.

Passionate drivers know I'm right. I buy nothing but Mazdas, over 25 years now. At the moment I drive a 2014 Mazda6. It's a gem. And it handles like a sports car.

Plus they survived the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and came back as the best damn automaker on the planet. I love my cars' Hiroshima badges.

[Zorro]

66. I have a 93 Miata

Don't drive it as much as I'd like to, but taking it out on a sunny day with the top down always puts a smile on my face.

It's been pretty bulletproof over the years, too.

[handmade34]

7. love my Subaru!! n/t

[Spider Jerusalem]

9. In that price range the BMW 3-series wagon may be worth a look (starts around 43K)

[Demonaut]

24. cpo bmw's are 10-15k less with 100k warranty

I drive a 2014 3 series

[metroins]

10. Subaru and Volvo are both super solid

Personally, we're getting an XC90 next year, as they're releasing an autopilot feature similar to Tesla. We're leasing it because in 2020 hopefully they'll be fully autonomous. I'm a huge Volvo fan.

If you're hauling wood or dealing with snow, I'd feel more comfortable personally with the Subaru but Volvo has extreme safety measures. I think the Subaru might be more reliable and better handling in snowy areas. I trust Subaru quality and handling.

I'm not sure if the XC70 has it, but Volvos can actually move the seats sideways during a T bone accident to protect the drivers a little more. They also can send a sound instantaneously before an accident that dampens your hearing loss. I mean Volvo just makes safe cars. We bought a Range Rover a month ago and I'm planning to trade it in on that XC90 next year.

[Esse Quam Videri]

52. Interesting item that I saw about Volvo and safety

They have made it a stated goal of zero deaths in their vehicles by 2020.

[hunter]

11. I drive a crap mid 'eighties $800 car.

I like it. I'll keep it running as long as I can. I'm fairly skilled as a shade-tree mechanic.

Cars suck. They are not worth my time or my money, and it pisses me off that I'm expected to own one.

[840high]

15. I have a '02 Toyota

knock on wood - going strong. Hate buying new cars.

[Fumesucker]

49. I don't drive enough any more to make owning a car economically worthwhile

But I'm a good shade tree mechanic and a former professional electromechanical diagnostician and people are willing to give me a lot of rides or let me use their car because I can and do save them a ton of money on maintenance and minor repairs. I have access to a beat up old pickup about 99% of the time and several other nicer vehicles if I want because of this.

It's a way of not having to own a car if you have the skills and maybe know a few people.

[riderinthestorm]

12. Volvo, hands down

My 2006 XC pulls haywagons, light horse trailers, and the occasional U-Haul.

It has also packed a 1/2 ton of bagged feed while entertaining 3 boisterous dogs pummelling the interior, and more take-out food.than you can imagine.

In other words, it's been abused lol, and shows little to no problems from it. I'm at 150k on the odometer. I plan on double that before I give it up.

It's the safest car bar none. Love this car and will probably own Volvos from here on out (full disclosure I've also owned Ford and Chevy trucks, Saab,VW and Honda cars).

[seabeyond]

13. I love my backup camera. First car with no blind spots. I won't have another car without it.

I don't have any suggestions though with what you are looking for.

[Kelvin Mace]

16. Prius V wagon

Great gas mileage and decent room. Very reliable.

[Freethinker65]

17. Subaru Forester

Is a bit less $ than the Outback and sits up higher on the road with lots of window area to see around. It is basically a wagon. We live in the Chicago area and bought a 2016 Forester last November. It is a lot bigger than our 2006 Forester, with more safety features and better mpg. We splurged on premium packages and it was under 35k (love the rear camera, basic GPS, and eyesight features). The Subarus also take regular gas, while the BMWs, Mercedes, and even Acuras we were considering advised using premium.

[WillowTree]

18. Have you looked at Hyundai?

My last 2 cars have been Hyundai (after driving an Acura for 13 years) and I've been very happy with them. The Santa Fe seems to get excellent reviews from both the pros and owners on Edmunds and the 5 yr/10 yr warranty can't be beat. Just one thing, though....... I don't know where you are in the area, but if you do decide to check them out, feel free to PM me as there's one suburban dealer I'd highly recommend avoiding.

Good luck on whatever you decide to go with.

[Doctor Jack]

19. You can't go wrong with a Subaru

My wife has a 1997 outback and it refuses to die. And odds are you can find a used one for quite a bit cheaper than $35,000 that would still last years(although be careful, since Subarus from about 10 years ago had a lot of gasket issues which will cost a few grand to fix). And they are all AWD, which may not seem necessary in June but when we lived in Chicago, it was amazing have AWD in the snow and ice.

Otherwise, I have had a lot of luck with Kia. Affordable and reliable. My 2008 Sportage has 150,000 miles and has gone with me on the many moves that I have taken across the country. I brought it in recently to be evaluated for any problems and the only issue after all these years is that the power steering fluid needed to be topped off.

[Abq_Sarah]

41. I have two Subarus

A '97 and a '98, both with over 300K miles each and they refuse to die. If you do the maintenance, replace the timing belts when necessary and keep up with your fluid levels, they just keep going and going and going... And yes, both of them had the infamous head gasket issues but once they were replaced, it's been smooth sailing.

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. I'm going to buy another Outback when this one ('04) wears out. Not likely soon.

Except that my youngest covets it for when he gets his license.

... Or at least now he does after one of his peers called it "a sick ride, dude". As best I can figure, this was a good thing.

Buy a used one so he doesn't feel guilty loading lumber.

Do they still salt the roads up there?

[Ford F-150]

21. The American auto workers...

Would like to thank all of you for your support...

[Egnever]

22. they should build a better car

I recently shopped cars and I had a lot of motivation to buy a Ford. When I compared them to similarly priced Hondas they didn't come close. Even with a deep discount I was getting if I bought the Ford I couldn't justify it.

Some models are fine but in the sedan class the options were complete crap.

[Ford F-150]

25. uh Huh...

http://www.edmunds.com/car-videos/comparison-test-videos/honda-accord-vs-ford-fusion-which-sedan-belongs-in-your-garage.html

[Egnever]

27. Well

http://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2014-ford-fusion-vs-2014-honda-accord-which-is-better-227629

"When it comes to building a midsize family sedan, Honda doesn't mess around. As appealing as the latest Ford Fusion might be, the 2014 Accord is still the better car."

Lots of opinions out there.

In my opinion the feel of the Honda was and is far superior to the fusion. The leg room in the backseat of the Honda is also superior which was important to me with kids as is the safety ratings on the Honda which are better as well. The resale value on the Honda versus the ford is much better as well.

There are more things I could mention but those alone were big reasons for me to choose the Honda despite a family discount at Ford.

[Travis_0004]

30. My toyota was built in Kentucky.

[sufrommich]

34. By non union workers.nt

[Ford F-150]

47. Did the workers that build

Have representation with worker protections and a guaranteed real living wage?

[Travis_0004]

50. They were paid a higher wage than my wifes GM car that was built in Mexico

[B Calm]

61. I was devastated to find out my Chevy Silverado was made in Mexico. Really

pissed me off!

[LiberalFighter]

70. How to read a vehicle identification number

[1939]

31. Progressives are all for the union workers

Unless it interferes with their "lifestyles" and then wonder where Reagan Democrats come from.

[Ford F-150]

45. Amen

To that!

[LuckyTheDog]

67. This

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Other-2-Door-Custom-Safari-/112015897063

[OriginalGeek]

77. Man I LOVE that

but I'm a little short...

[sufrommich]

32. Amazing,isn't it? Americans will never admit that it's

their personal choices that killed American manufacturing.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. No, in the case of the auto industry, it was that American cars were just not that well made.

We didn't all wake up one morning and go "oh, Japanese cars sound like fun" ... the stuff coming out of Detroit was simply not dependable.

And as much as people try to say "they're better, now" - in addition to being an acknowledgement of a problem in the past, which caused the situation ... still EVERY damn time I get an American car as a rental (because the foreign ones are considered the "premium" cars, hmmm) there is something wrong with it. Every damn time.

I was in Tucson not that long ago and I rented... I don't know, it was a Ford Escobar or something*, brand spanking new, literally had like 50 miles on it. Granted, it was Arizona so it was hot, but 10 miles out from the airport the thing just died. Kaput. Pfffffffffffffffffft. Brand new car. Didn't overheat, didn't have anything obviously wrong with it, it just stopped working. Entirely. And yes, it had a full tank of gas.

If this had been a random outlier, okay... but like I said.

If I'm gonna plunk down, like, 30Gs on something, I want it to be dependable and as a bonus I don't want it to steer like a wet noodle.

Sorry.


* I realize that's not the actual name

[sufrommich]

37. That's a lot of words wasted,you could have just

gone with "fuck those UAW workers".

[Warren DeMontague]

38. You do understand that people buy cars for a reason, right?

The primary one being a reasonable expectation that when you put the key in the ignition the thing is going to take you from point A to B.

[sufrommich]

39. I realize that you're justifying screwing union workers by

hanging onto that tired stereotype of American cars and the people who make them.I hear a lot of squawking from so-called progressives who bemoan the death of union manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and call for tougher trade restrictions and yet fail to put their money where their mouth is.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Then you're not listening to me.

My "tired stereotypes" are based upon direct experience. You'll note, as well, I've never blamed the workers- I blame the auto execs, the ones in Detroit who coasted along for decades without recognizing they needed to change, because the world had changed.



It's not the workers' fault.

Manufacturing jobs have gone away because the world is changing, and it's going to change more. Most of that stuff will eventually be done by robots, so in the final analysis whether people prefer Ford or Hyundai isn't going to make a whole ton of difference.

The real question is how to we as a society and a species adapt to the world of the future. The past isn't coming back.

But none of that is going to change the fact that an automobile is an important, expensive, and mission-critical enough purchase that I'm going to buy the one I consider reliable, period, end of fucking story.

[Ford F-150]

46. Keep telling yourself that

I'm sure you can sleep better that way.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. what am I telling myself, now?

Oh, yeah, that every damn time I rent an american car, it has something funky wrong with it, like a major mechanical problem.

It would appear im not the only one suffering from this "delusion" that certain cars are more reliable, too. Hmmm. Weird.

[pangaia]

53. You can't win this battle.

Someone has decided you are anti-union, anti-american. and it's all your fault.

Plus, you are dealing with 'plug-and-play' answers.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. I promise the next time I'm in the market for a new car, I will consider all options fairly.

That likely will not be for a very long time, though, because....

Ah, never mind.

[Travis_0004]

79. I dont blame the UAW workers

But American cars are not as reliable.

I blame engineering, R&D the most, but when Im buying a 30,000 car, I want it to last as long as possible.

[LiberalFighter]

72. Gee I wonder why my UAW made 1999 Cavalier is still running?

[Warren DeMontague]

81. I see late 80s model Nissan Sentras on the road all the time.

[ileus]

74. I remember my father looking for used vehicles in the 70s & 80's anything

with more than 30k miles he'd walk away from.



Today I don't mind buying a 20yo American Truck with 150k miles. Times have changed.

[alarimer]

63. No, it's because American cars used to be shit.

They failed for years to compete, for whatever reason. And they are still less well-made, with cheaper materials and lousy design. Honda, Toyota, etc usually top the Consumer Reports best buy lists.

In addition, plenty of "American" cars are actually made in other countries. And Fiat owns Chrysler now, which makes Chrysler about as American as Budweiser, which is owned by a Belgian conglomerate. To say nothing of parts, which may come from all over the place.

It is more complicated than simply "Buy American". How much of the car has to be made in the US to qualify?

[BeyondGeography]

55. This thread is about station wagons

Do Americans even make them anymore? Same with compact trucks there, Mr. F-150. Ford used to make a good one until it sucked and they stopped competing. The whole sector was left to Toyota and Nissan for a couple of years before Chevy stepped up with the Colorado.

[alarimer]

64. I think they've been replaced by SUV's.

Or hatchbacks. I have a Mazda 3, which I like.

Even the Nissan and Toyota small trucks are not exactly "small" anymore.

[BeyondGeography]

65. Americans have ditched the category but it still exists

Same with compact trucks, which, you're right, aren't compact anymore, but they're nuch smaller than the monsters that Detroit prefers to churn out.

The point is foreign manufacturers are the clear option for many car buyers and trying to guilt them for it is bullshit.

[Warren DeMontague]

83. Volvo is the only manufacturer I can think of off the top of my head

[Demonaut]

23. look at the mazda cx5, very reliable

[SeattleVet]

26. Just turned over 311,000 on our Outback this morning.

Subaru just seems to keep going, and going. In many areas of the country they really hold their value, too. They have a few new models that seem to be more of a workhorse than the new Outback models (which are MUCH larger than the older ones)...the newer Crosstrek seems to be a suitable replacement for a late-90's Outback, at a decent price.

[Recursion]

28. I'm selling a right-side drive Land Rover Defender 110

If you feel like paying the freight from India...

[Ilsa]

29. A friend had a Subaru for ages. Very dependable.

I love my rear camera. It helps me see further around because it's convex, I think. Also, I suspect insurance companies will soon require them on most new models.

[aikoaiko]

33. In terms of power and comfort, the Volvo is much better.

I'm a big guy and Volvo seats are luxurious compared to Suburu seats. Even if you only do one or two long trips a year, I'd go for the Volvo.

But Suburus are well made and reliable. They will get the job done and be less expensive to maintain. Plus cost 10K less to begin with.

[ileus]

42. If you want it to last 20 years, better go with anything Honda or Toyota.

Especially if you want routine maintenance that's easy and somewhat cheap. There's absolutely zero way I'd be considering a Volvo or VW unless I had an unlimited maintenance budget, and didn't mind the higher risk of getting a 20 year lemon that needs continuous maintenance once you hit 150k.

The Subaru....the only issue I know with their owners is sometime sketchy tire wear. Is it because of the owners? Or the AWD system? I tend to avoid complicated drivetrains once high mileage comes into play (10+ years)

Consider buying a 20yo pickup or something in the 2500 buck range as a second "work / play" vehicle.

[rogerashton]

44. Very happy with our fourth Subaru

though you will gather that I am not a guy who keeps his car for decades. Though my wife is determined not to give up her '06 Outback.

I have a 2015 Legacy sedan. All Subarus are AWD -- but the recent ones have a "continuous" chain transmission that saves gas, roughly offsetting the increased gas consumption from applying traction continuously to 4 wheels. I find this more responsive (mostly) than a standard transmission, though not so much at very slow speeds. I do like AWD in a Philadelphia area climate, warmer I think than Chicago, but it is worth having in rain -- and getting off our cul-de-sac can be a thrill. Up-to-date cars have pushbutton ignitions. I pretty much don't like them, but two lessons: Don't let the battery get low. If it is a little low, and the starter is unresponsive, turn the car off, wait 60 seconds for the onboard computer to clear, and hold the button down until the car starts and is running. Then get the battery checked. I don't think that is Subarus in particular, but my only long-term experience with pushbutton start is with the Subaru sedan.

[AngryAmish]

51. My XC70 is 11 years old.

I hope she has 5 more years in her. My next car will drive itself.

[Stinky The Clown]

58. The key to car longevity is taking care of it on a religious basis

Every adjustment, every oil change, every timing belt replacement.The dealer, of course, for all work while under warranty, but find an honest, dependable shop and stick with them. That shop can be the dealer or an indy shop.

Yes, some cars may have a better reputation for longevity than some others, but most any car will last a very long time when well maintained.

[Demonaut]

71. +1

[ileus]

73. I've had just the opposite experience.

I run oil changes out to 7 or 8k, never replaced a timing belt, most never changed the tranny or diff fluid. Only replaced the coolent and brake fluid on a few.

So far knock on wood I've never had one drive train failure. Wheel bearings, CV joints regular wear items.

Granted I don't keep most more than 10 (though I've had my jeep 18 years now) years and never buy myself a new vehicle instead always picking up something off my Brother or BIL I drive them for 3-10 years then move on usually because they develop rust. (even though I'm crazy on detail work and wash most vehicles 15-30 times a year)

I just replaced the brakes and rotors on my 2005 Sentra Saturday...Next is the shocks and struts. I'd really like to do the timing belt, but the last one I had changed (84 chevette in 1988) it broke 4 days later and had to be replaced again. I'd also like to replace the belt on our Xterra, but again I worry mess with it and we'll be replacing the engine.

Take it easy on a car don't drive it like a race car or an 18yo and I don't think the "well maintained" is as important as well treated driving wise. I can make a 40 dollar tire from Wal-Mart last 40,000 miles. I can take a slipping AT tranny and drive it 5 years.

[tanyev]

59. We have a Subaru Outback and a Forester.

We've been very happy with both. Very reliable and the service department at the dealership here is great--quick, competent service and loaner vehicles if something is going to take awhile.

[B Calm]

60. I like Honda CRV. Don't own one, but I do like the looks

and I hear the gas mileage is good.

[fizzgig]

68. i would love to upgrade my 740 wagon for an xc70

dad got me a 740 three years ago and my 82 245 gave up the ghost less than a year later.

nope, don't have an attachment to volvo at all.

[PoliticAverse]

69. Best advice - don't buy a new car. n/t

[wryter2000]

76. Subarus run forever

My 1992 1600DL ran for over 250K miles. However, the bodies tend to rust out in places where they throw salt on the road. We don't have that problem in Oakland.

[LuckyTheDog]

87. GMC SUVs are also remarkably durable

And they don't rust all that much.

[LuckyTheDog]

78. Ford Flex

Built in Canada, by union workers -- and pretty nice. Built on a Volvo-derived platform.

[forthemiddle]

80. We have been looking at the Outbacks

We want the 6 cylinder, and they are almost impossible to find. Every single time a local dealer had one on the lot that we wanted to test drive, the car sold that day! I am not exaggerating, we have been looking for 6 weeks We are planning to drive to Milwaukee this weekend just to be able to test drive the 6cylinder model.

One thing though, you said you didn't want an AWD? The Outbacks are AWD.

[Alex4Martinez]

82. Can it be a hatchback?

If so, I can highly recommend the Chevy Volt, with fold down seats it acts like a Prius, only bigger with big flat storage behind the seats.

Yes, it's also electric all the time for 30+ miles then switches to burning gas to generate electricity.

And, no maintenance. I'm at 40,000 miles and had one oil change. The maintenance schedule requires nothing but tire rotations and an oil change every 24 months.

AND, it will charge on a standard outlet.

I love my Chevy Volt and I'm a person who really loved my Volvo and Camry wagons.

This is better because I can go days and days and never burn a drop of gasoline.

Check it out.

[mopinko]

84. looking at getting a mustang, myself.

got a ringing endorsement of the new fords from my very curmudgeonly mechanic. he drives an escape.
i really need the driver assist tech. 61, always was a shitty driver. just got chopped by state farm for too many fender benders.

i have been driving tanks for quite a while, and now that it is just me, i want a nice small, efficient car.
i have never bought a new car, but have a chance now.

and doesnt every middle aged divorcee need a nice sporty car?
ruby red baby.