Question: When an imam publicly calls for the murder of homosexual people because it is against

[MariaThinks]

the religion, is there a backlash, demonstration, rebuke, boycott in response? (like there would be if someone said a joke about the religion)?

Apparently, an imam spoke in Orlando weeks before this murderous rampage? I would imagine, if there was a kkk demonstration and a black event was shot up, there might be a connection.

[malaise]

1. Who went into a church and killed Dr. Tiller again?

Fundie folks of all religions and political views promote murder. Do all Christians reject their anti-abortion or anti-LGBTQ lunatics?

[MariaThinks]

2. i think pastors who promote hate are boycotted by the majority and they are riducled.

they are not invited to Christian communities all over the world to spread hate.

[DetlefK]

3. We certainly do not hear demands that the christian community denounce violent Christians.

[MariaThinks]

4. because they do. But let's keep deflecting like the tragedies mount.

[DetlefK]

20. Can you bring up an example?

When a christian terrorist committed an atrocity in the name of his religion, let's say that one guy who shot up a Planned Parenthood a few months ago, are there pundits who call on the pastors and priests and bishops to go on camera and publicly denounce that terrorist?

And yet, whenever a muslim terrorist commits an atrocity, we hear complaints how the Muslims aren't standing up against muslim terrorists.
Do we hear complaints how the Christians aren't standing up against christian terrorists?

Was there ever an accusation that the christian neighbours of a christian terrorist failed to rat him out because they shared the same religion?



The vast majority of people killed by muslim terrorists are Muslims. Those 20, 50 or 100 dead people the western media screams about and holds up as the worst terror-attacks in history, that happens on a weekly basis in Africa and the Middle-East.

[MariaThinks]

22. because the vast majority of Christians are not listening to priests who want to blow up planned

parenthood.

in the case of San bern - how many people were involved in the execution style attack at a Christmas party in the name of ISIS? The husband, the wife, the neighbor? What were they killing for? Apparently they became more devout and radicalized - to kill in the name of their religion.

and your last paragraph minimizes the horror we are feeling. there are no solutions to stop it, just a comparison with the suggestion that so what.

[Nye Bevan]

8. Has the Pope ever praised a murder committed by a Christian?

Does Vatican City impose the death penalty on gay people?

[malaise]

15. Several Popes encouraged the slaughter of indigenous people acros the planet for centuries

supported the Crusades, murdered scientists, enriched themselves during slavery, supported Fascists in Europe and did nothing about pedophiles while allowing the priests, bishops and Cardinals to rape people's children.

Spare me please

[Marengo]

16. Urban II died in 1099. I believe the poster you are responding to is referring..

To the current Pope.

[Nye Bevan]

18. The Crusades usually get mentioned in these discussions,

despite the fact that they happened hundreds of years ago. It seems that there is a shortage of more recent examples to cite.

[cwydro]

21. Funny how that is.

I've noticed that too.

[Tsiyu]

33. Well here's some more

https://76crimes.com/2012/06/12/in-reversal-catholic-church-backs-kill-the-gays-bill/

The Catholic Church in Uganda has apparently changed its position on the country’s so-called “Kill the Gays” bill, calling on parliament to pass the measure.

The Ugandan Daily Monitor newspaper reported that Catholics joined in that new stance at the recent ecumenical conference organized by the Uganda Joint Christian Council, which represents Anglican, Catholic and Orthodox churches.

Bishops at the conference urged the parliamentary committee that is studying the bill to approve it and send it to the House. They said the proposed Anti-Homosexuality Law is needed in response to “an attack on the Bible and the institution of marriage,” the newspaper reported.

Clergy approving that stance included archbishops Henry Luke Orombi (Anglican), Cyprian Kizito Lwanga (Roman Catholic) and Metropolitan Jonah Lwanga (Orthodox).

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/catholic_church_endorses_murder_as_pope_blesses_ugandas_kill_the_gays_minis

Via Joe My God:

Ugandan Parliament Speaker Rebecca Kadaga, who last month promised the passage of the Anti-Homosexuality Act as a “Christmas gift to Christians,” yesterday appeared in Vatican City to receive the motherfucking blessing of the Pope. From the website of the Uganda Parliament:

Kadaga who led a delegation of Ugandan legislators to the Vatican expressed delight at meeting the Pope and visiting St Peter’s Basilicca. “I think this is a moment that cannot be repeated. We have been reading about him, hearing stories about St.Peter’s Basilica but now we are here physically. I think it is something that I will remember all my life. Its a very great moment and I thank God for this opportunity,” she said minutes after meeting the Pope. The Speaker dedicated to all Ugandans readings from the book of St. Mark which the Pope quoted in several languages during the Vatican mass.

And there you have it. A blessing from the Pope upon the woman who wants you executed. It can’t get any plainer than that, can it?

The modern day Catholic Church is as violently homophobic as it's ever been. The new pope may preach tolerance, but he has made inflammatory comments about gay and transgender people that only lead to more discrimination, slander and abuse.

Nearly ALL Abrahamic-based faiths are hate-filled shit shows then AND now.

[cwydro]

35. I agree about religion.

However, I've visited Catholic countries, and was not treated as a second class citizen as a woman.

Women can drive in Catholic countries. Walk around without having to be draped in a freaking robe.

I'm not sure Uganda is such a great example for your point.

[Tsiyu]

36. We're talking about religion here

and your claim was that people only brought up the Crusades.

Now the goalpost moves, as always.

There are modern-day Roman Catholics who are every bit as deranged and homicidal as those in Islam,who wish to codify what happened in Orlando.

To deny that, no matter in which country it rears its ugly head, is to say one really doesn't give a fuck about the truth. .

[Marengo]

30. Pious XII is quite controversial, but I'm not well read enough on him to filter out all the noise...

And arrive at an objective viewpoint. But, to your point, it is odd that the Crusades are still heaped on the shoulders of Christians to this day. It was a very different world in those times, and there is more than one legitimate perspective on at least the first.

[demosincebirth]

41. Good point.

[MariaThinks]

39. spare me the examples of 500 years ago as if that is relevent today. yes, spare me.

[MariaThinks]

23. no.

[uponit7771]

19. +1

[demosincebirth]

40. The Pope?

No "yea but," pls's

[Nye Bevan]

6. When pro-life groups condemned the CO Planned Parenthood attack,

the reaction of many DUers was sneering skepticism (like "nod nod, wink wink&quot .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141273555

[Quantess]

14. Again with the "ALL" knee-jerk response. Enough, people!

Nobody means "ALL MUSLIMS" nor "ALL CHRISTIANS". Slightly religious people are NOT the problem and atheists are even less of a threat to humanity. Most reasonable people know this.

[MariaThinks]

24. thank you.

[demosincebirth]

42. Er...Stalin?

[

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Australia was reviewing his visa; he fled to Dubai before a decision was made

Anti-gay Islamic preacher Farrokh Sekaleshfar leaves Australia amid visa review

A British Islamic scholar who toured Orlando this year and had preached in 2013 that "death is the sentence" for homosexual acts left Australia on Tuesday after the government launched an "urgent" review of his visa because of his comments.
...
Mr Sekaleshfar said in a lecture in Michigan in 2013 that in an Islamic society, the death penalty should be carried out for homosexuals who engaged in sodomy.

"Out of compassion, let's get rid of him now, because he's contaminating society," Mr Sekaleshfar said in a talk at that time, according to a recording available online.
...
Mr Sekaleshfar told the ABC that his decision to leave was voluntary and that he had not been asked to go by the government. The network showed footage of him entering Sydney airport, and said he was flying to Dubai.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/antigay-islamic-preacher-farrokh-sekaleshfar-leaves-australia-amid-visa-review-20160614-gpj3m4.html

[MariaThinks]

26. is this the template for an 'islamic scholar'? what are the standards? Does he represent Islamic

ideals?

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. I have no idea what you're trying to say (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

7. When a Christian baker refused to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding,

there were multiple threads on DU with hundreds of responses in condemnation.

But when an imam calls for gay people to be murdered, or ISIS throws gay men off buildings and crushes their skulls with rocks, the reaction here is considerably more muted. Fear of seeming Islamophobic, or something.

[Coventina]

9. Even worse, he's diagnosed as a self-hating gay, and had nothing to do with Islam.

Never mind that he called 911 mid-rampage to declare for IS.

[MariaThinks]

11. unless we accept these truths, the muslim extremists are not going to stop.

when a person's religion says: 'homosexuals should be killed' and then an imam comes and speaks about it and recommends it, and when people all around you are saying that homosexuality is evil, I think it's dishonest to say that the belief system had nothing to do with it. And it allows the next murderer to do just that.

when a Christian priest or pastor says something that destructive, the mainstream Christian community condemns it 100%. There is no 'it's evil, but let God be the judge' or similar judges. Hating gays is wrong.

Gay people are like everyone else and deserve support and love. Any religion that says otherwise is homophobic and good people should not accept that.

[librarylu]

31. He may have had

more than one thing going on.

Imagine what gay Muslims are going through right now.

[Coventina]

32. I feel very sorry for gay Muslims. I left Christianity because I grew up to be a feminist.

I think most gay Muslims will find that their religion and their selves are incompatible, just as I did.

However, I remain unconvinced that the Orlando gunman became a terrorist because he was gay.

[MariaThinks]

27. Good point. I never see threads like: "how do we eliminate anger and violence in our faith?"

it's more outrage against anyone who feels sympathy for the victims.

[whatthehey]

10. The thing with these mass religions

like Islam and Christianity, and even Hinduism but few outside India see that impact, is that whether your interpretation is kill 'em all or love 'em all or anything in between, anyone who has read scripture enough that "interpretation" can honsestly be applied realizes that different emphasis, different contextual assumptions and different inherent biases could support the diametrically opposite interpretation. That's why the kumbaya crowd ignore or waft away with hermeneutic aerobatics anything nasty in scripture and why the fire and brimstone crowd focus on it.

But the problem is that if kumbaya proponents made a huge deal of saying that the fire and brimstone crowd are just cherry picking and ignoring parts of scripture they find inconvenient or explaining the nice stuff away as only applying to a specific subgroup and hey read chapter this verse that for what scripture really says, they know full well that the F&B mob could, with absolutely equal solid footing based on a different exegesis of the same texts, sy exactly the same thing back to them, obviously vice versa. So neither fundies nor milquetoasts level the first accusation of cherry picking.

No religious group wants their own interpretation to be held up to the light as one which is based on selective reading and biased interpretation of scriptures which contain both heart-stoppingly beautiful and gut-wrenchingly nasty sentiments, so they don't shine that light on those with a different exegetical foundation.

[MariaThinks]

13. but most religions are evolving. I don't hear Hindu priests by the dozens or Christian priests by

the hundreds asking for the killing of any group because they are sinners.

How many muslims are willing to publicly state that homosexuals should not be killed? (and then lets see if they feel they should be accepted). Surveys of muslim countries show the number to be less than 50%. So 50+% of the muslim population seem to feel that homosexuality is punishable by death as far as the survey's I've seen show.

[whatthehey]

25. Well there's a couple of differences, and some similarities

Muslim loons are certainly causing more terroristic mayhem globally than loons of other faiths right now. Only blissninnies scared of being called biased when the facts are themselves biased says otherwise. Why? Partly I think because Islam is more concentrated in the poorest most hopelessly ratfucked parts of the world so they have little hope and less opportunity. Partly because unlike the other big faiths the separation between state and church is an alien concept (and has been for Islam's whole history) so fundies wield greater power, and partly because looking at this from a big history POV, it's apparent the first fissures of what could be a Muslim Reformation are starting. If you look at Christian history between the 95 Theses and the Peace of Westphalia you'll see plenty that's familiar and unfortunately that it takes more than a century to settle down a bit. Even at the most optimistic reading we're about 30 odd years into that. Sorry to be a bummer.

The second difference is that while Christianity is a global religion too, there's really not a whole lot of factionalism that runs globally. The Christian gay killers in Uganda are not, in anything but name, connected tribally or culturally to very many Christians in Utah. Global Islam maintains that factionalism and the implicit need to support their distant brethren's causes far more powerfully. So we have more ISIS sympathizers in more places than Uganda style Christians.

But there are similarities. There are many Christian pastors calling for and applauding the murder of gays. They have been linked here repeatedly. They are not a fringe. A sizeable ratio of Americans want to impose Biblical law. It calls for the execution of gays. Muslims in the US are MORE accepting of gay marriage than US Protestants, and far far more accepting than evangelicals, LDS and JWs. You are referring to overseas polls. How many Ugandan Christians would agree? How many Muslims in western nations disagree? If 42% of US Muslims are ok with legal marriage, it's a bit unlikely half want to kill them? Different societies.

[MariaThinks]

28. i have extreme hatred and condemnation for those christian gay killers

and the Christian rightwing.

[bemildred]

12. It is an assault, and the fucker should be put in jail.

"No crying fire in a crowded theater."

All mob baiting of that sort, calling for the death of anybody, should be punished by law.

[KamaAina]

17. Question: When a pastor publicly calls for the murder of homosexual people

for the same reason, what is the response?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027912766

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027906580

[MariaThinks]

29. The person who posted those threads was a self declared Christian

shining light on the extremists in his/her religion so that other innocent people are not hurt.

Thanks for the assist in helping me make my point.

[Ace Rothstein]

37. If someone draws a picture of Mohammed there are millions in the streets protesting.

Someone calls for death of a particular group and we hear not a peep from the same crowd.

[MariaThinks]

38. that's what i'm saying. It is all one way. Someone is asking for death to an entire community - gay

people - and he's listened to and invited to other events around the world?

It's undeniable. The religious leader asks for death to homosexuals. In the same city, a member of his religion slaughters gay people. If the people were changed to different groups, there would be outrage.