French couple stabbed to death by ISIS volunteer: no AR-15 involved.

[Albertoo]

Planes (9/11), bombs (London 7/7), knives,

we can talk about gun control, but it won't solve the problem of Islamic terrorism.

French police couple killed in attack claimed by Islamic State

A Frenchman who pledged allegiance to Islamic State stabbed a police commander to death outside his home and killed his partner, who also worked for the police, in an attack the government denounced as "an abject act of terrorism".

Larossi Abballa, 25, also took the couple's three-year-old son hostage in Monday night's attack. The boy was found unharmed but in a state of shock after police commandos stormed the house and killed the attacker.

Born in France of Moroccan origin, Abballa was jailed in 2013 for helping Islamist militants go to Pakistan and had been under security service surveillance, including wiretaps, at the time of the attack, Paris prosecutor Francois Molins said.

The attacker told police negotiators during the siege he had answered an appeal by Iraq-based Islamic State chief Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi "to kill infidels at home with their families", Molins told a news conference.

"The killer said he was a practicing Muslim, was observing Ramadan and, that three weeks ago, he had pledged allegiance to ... Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi," Molins said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-crime-idUSKCN0YZ2KA

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. 25 couples stabbed to death at once...? nt

[jack_krass]

35. Rwanda: 5 million stabbed

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. At once? By one person? nt

[JustAnotherGen]

75. He doesn't even have the right number

It was between 750K and 1 million and it took place over several months.

Also the Interhamwe used machetes, guns, rape camps. The military would also use military issued assault rifles to - as an example . . . Line up a bunch of Catholic School Girls and mow them down. There is a museum where their skulls are on display.

[JustAnotherGen]

73. Nope about 750 K and they weren't stabbed

Many were hacked with machetes or killed by Hutus with guns in a state sponsored genocide that took place over approximately 3 months.

You should probably update your post so when the Trumpites plan/enact their genocide they have realistic expectations for results.

You Wrote:

35. Rwanda: 5 million stabbed

That is incorrect.

[JackRiddler]

150. Most of course were killed by well-armed men.

Many hacked by machetes were first rounded up by well-armed men.

The original post is incredibly stupid. Mainly because the poster thinks it's a hell of a point to make!

[treestar]

93. +1

[angstlessk]

2. Two with a knife vs 49 with a gun

and the comparison is what?

[Night Watchman]

139. Bingo!

[MattP]

3. That's about 47 less than in the nightclub

A little less lethal than a ar-15

[TheBlackAdder]

81. Actually, that 50 figure are just those killed, practically double that to account for the injured.

[Aerows]

145. Many still in critical condition. n/t

[JanMichael]

4. While sad and terrible it was two people and not 49 or 26 or whatever.

Good stabbing though just like OJ. Lets ban those knives. Jesus...

[Albertoo]

8. See post #7: 150 dead with gun control

[rjsquirrel]

13. Bollocks

[Aerows]

129. Get ready to wade through pro-Clinton horseshit

piled high enough to drown trees.

Get ready for more DC idiocy banned, coerced and argued against being discussed.

Say something awful about the agencies that failed to "protect" us?

It's not like we should hold the agencies that take our tax dollars accountable. That might interrupt somebodies paycheck.

Some of them who have spouses who work for the campaigns of certain politicians.

[840high]

136. horseshit is right

[Zynx]

6. But we do take simple precautions where we can.

We tightened up airport and airplane security. After the London attacks, they tightened up procedures and security on the London Metro. We banned things that were proven to be problems.

It makes sense to tighten up the ability to get your hands on the really deadly weapons, especially if the person in question is on the terror watchlist.

[Albertoo]

10. Not really: the bad guys will always get weapons

Especially in the case of radical Islam which is supported by part of the petrodollars

(remember the Saudis financing 9/11)

[Zynx]

14. We don't have to make it so easy for them.

What's the point of having these damn things so readily available? These aren't hunting weapons. These are solely designed to slaughter people quickly and efficiently.

[Albertoo]

16. Gun control = higher percentage of ownership by the bad guys

[elehhhhna]

39. Lets remove stop signs also.

[Albertoo]

43. A very good parallel to what I'm saying

We don't suppress stop signs (weapons) because some murderous individuals drive under the influence of alcohol (homophobic Islam), we try to act on the intake of alcohol by drivers (curb radical Islam)

[booley]

101. and yet France still has less murders then we do here

even when we take into account terrorist attacks

There's a saying...

The Law is to Utopia what Hospitals are to Immortality

We don't' have hospitals because we think it keeps us from ever dying

We have them so we can avoid death for as long as possible

laws don't' mean crime will never happen. Nor police. Nor public policy.
But that doesn't refute the whole philosophy of crime prevention.

[Albertoo]

109. The OP's point is that gun control is not the solution to islamic terrorism

9/11, London 7/7, this OP's example, different means, same ideology.

The debate about gun control is another one, but boils down to this: there is some extra mortality in a place where people can buy guns, BUT it also buys you an additional layer of homeland defense vs external attacks and an internal defense against the risk of tyranny (something that occurs rater frequently in the history of countries). In doubt, I prefer that the power rests with the citizenry, but again, it's not directly the OP.

[Albertoo]

7. To answers #1 to #4, about 150 dead at Paris Bataclan in November

About 150 dead during the Paris Bataclan shootings in November
And there is a total gun control in France: from assault rifles to mere handguns.

My point is simple: gun control isn't the solution to Islamic terrorism

[Zynx]

15. It's not a total cure, no, but it does make it harder.

If it saves even a single life it's worth it.

[Albertoo]

17. I feel the reverse: gun control enables the baddies

Part of the shootings during the Paris November attacks took place at the terrace of cafes and restaurants: much less easy if you expect at least some people to carry weapons

[gratuitous]

23. Didn't seem to slow down Mr. Mateen

In spite of the presence of approximately one gun for every American.

No, reasonable gun regulation has nothing to do with terrorism. That could be because they're two different subjects. Enforcing speeding laws doesn't affect terrorism, either. Blowing people to Kingdom Come in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Yemen, Syria and a host of other countries seems only to have exacerbated the problem of terrorism. Odd.

[Albertoo]

24. Maybe because dancing while carrying a weapon is impractical?

I didn't suggest everyone should be carrying a weapon (I don't)

I'm merely saying that in an environment where Islamist attacks won't vanish overnight, it might make sense to have a certain amount of weapons at public places.

And yes, both the Saudis and GW made life on earth worse for everyone.

[gratuitous]

27. A certain amount of weapons?

And those carrying those certain amount of weapons would do what in a dark nightclub at 2 a.m.? Shoot wildly at muzzle flashes? Well, I'm sure it would work in a movie, so why not in real life?

[Albertoo]

28. Am I suggesting it's a magic wand?

But nowadays, it might make sense to have owners of public places have weapons.

I'm sure the clients of the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November would have agreed.

[gratuitous]

33. Pretty much, yeah

Since your argument - whatever it is, and you've had several opportunities to articulate it - seems pretty incoherent. So yeah, magic. Seems to be your best lead.

[Albertoo]

37. Let me rephrase more 'coherently'

Tourist buses in Egypt, Charlie Hebdo, Garissa University in Kenya, hotel in Bamako, Bardo museum in Tunis, Paris Bataclan, San Bernardino, Orlando

all these places were public venues attacked by Islamists with machine guns, in countries with or without gun control*.

My points are:
- gun control* doesn't appear to deter/solve islamic terrorism
- since islamic terrorism occurs at public venues, they should get some defense capability

[mythology]

53. Please find some internal consistency in your "argument"

For example saying gun control won't stop all mass shootings/attacks means gun control is bad, and then saying that having more guns won't stop all mass shootings/attacks doesn't mean guns are bad makes your argument hypocritical at best. If something has to work 100% of the time to be worth doing, you can't then hide behind saying your solution doesn't have to work 100% of the time.

That said the argument is stupid for other reasons such as the distinct correlation between rates of gun ownership and rates of homicides per 100,000 population is pretty clear. States with high rates gun ownership have more homicides than states with low gun ownership.

[Albertoo]

56. Easier to find than in yours

1- I make the point that gun control would not stop islamist attacks with assault rifles, as proven by such attacks in many different other countries. This is where your 100% argument is irrelevant: radical islamists appear to find assault rifles irrespective of local gun laws.

2- I make the point that since such attacks are probable in light of the past, it might make sense to make the targets less soft by having weapons at public venues. If the staff of large public venues like concert halls are mandated to have some weapons, it does make an attack like the Paris Bataclan harder. To use percentages like you, you go from 100% soft target to less than 100% soft target.

3- your last argument about the correlation between gun laws and homicide fails in light of international figures. Switzerland has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in Europe (50%) with quite a large number of war grade assault rifles (compulsory national service after which people are mandated to keep thei assault rifles at home)

A good example that correlation is not causality.

[jberryhill]

40. And yet, Paris will end the year with fewer gun deaths than comparably sized US cities

Explain that.

[TipTok]

77. Binary thinking....

Last edited Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:50 AM - Edit history (1)

It could save dozens of lives if we banned swimming pools. Children drown every year...

We could save thousands of lives if we enacted a mandatory diet and exercise regime on the populace...

We could make smoking a federal offense... Thousands more saved...

We could implant the population with cameras that all feed to a central observation ministry and they could deploy law enforcement anytime someone did something that could potentially hurt themselves or others (feelings too).

Cars, red meat, smoking, bees and a million other things.

'If it could save one life' is not an ethical or logical justification because it has no end...

[RAFisher]

26. Nirvana fallacy

Gun control in France didn't stop every gun related terrorist attack so gun control is not the solution. Explosive control didn't stop the Olympic Park bombing so laws against explosives are not the solution.

I guess you think we should start selling C4 at Walmart since no law can prevent all bombing, just as no law can prevent all gun related terrorist attacks.

[TubbersUK]

74. +1 n/t

[treestar]

94. to mass shootings, it might be

as long as it makes it harder

[Logical]

114. Your point is to defend guns, we get it. nt

[Dem2]

9. He mowed down 102 people with a knife and half died?

Off to ignore, I have no time to argue with gun nuts who support mass-murderers just so they can keep their penis substitutes.

[IL Lib]

67. +1 n/t

[fleabiscuit]

11. Should just call it "the problem of Religious terrorism." All the same. The NRA is a hate group. eom

[tallahasseedem]

12. No one said it would solve the problem...

but it will certainly help take down the number of casualties in a terror attack.

Weapons of war have no place in a civilized society. The NRA appreciates your unapologetic support though...

[Albertoo]

19. See #17: gun ownership will help reduce casualties

Islamic terrorism is here to stay ever since 9/11.
I suggest not being lambs for the slaughter.

What if the managers of the Pulse club in Orlando had had weapons?

[alarimer]

86. Do you have an evidence for this dubious assertion?

If anyone else in the nightclub has weapons, hundreds would have died. It's crowded, it's loud, it's dimly lit.

I'm so tired of this stupid fucking argument. It isn't true; it has NEVER been true. In any case there was an armed, off-duty cop there.

So take your ill-informed bullshit and go peddle it somewhere else.

[HERVEPA]

18. Yo gunner, two versus fifty. Try logic 101.

[Albertoo]

21. See post #7: I just want to make San Bernardino or Orlando difficult for religious loons.

I'm not a gun nut. But radical Islam is here to stay:

Charlie Hebdo, San Bernardino, Bamako, Orlando: the common point isn't the 'o' ending.

[A Little Weird]

42. The common point

Was radical Islam a factor in the Sandy Hook shooting? How about the Aurora theater shootings? How about one of the many mass school shootings? The common point in all of these events isn't radical Islam, it's easy access to guns.

[Albertoo]

45. See one common point in post #37: radical Islam, not access to weapons

Tourist buses in Egypt, Charlie Hebdo, Garissa University in Kenya, hotel in Bamako, Bardo museum in Tunis, Paris Bataclan, San Bernardino, Orlando

Countries with or without gun control, so the common point is not access to weapons.

And the OP is about a knife attack. After London 7/7, do you ban fertilizers?

[A Little Weird]

46. The common point in this country

Is easy access to weapons.

[Albertoo]

48. 9/11 included?

And my foreign examples show you San Bernardino or Orlando would occur even if there was total gun control like in Europe.

[A Little Weird]

49. I'm glad you brought up 9/11

After terrorists hijacked planes and killed a bunch of people, we recognized that that was a thing that could happen. Most of us had never looked at an airplane as a weapon before. But after the twin towers went down, we decided to tighten up the rules for flying. Now you have to go through massive security to get on a plane. The cabin doors are locked and reinforced. People get put on a 'no-fly list' if law enforcement thinks they may possibly be terrorists. In short, it's a whole lot more difficult now to hijack a plane than it was prior to 9/11.

Contrast that with one of the many mass shootings. We all know guns are weapons that can kill. That's what they were designed for. But instead of making them difficult for terrorists (unstable assholes, spurned lovers, whatever) to get, our bought-and-paid-for politicians make sure nobody can pass a single piece of legislation to tighten up restrictions. They even made a point of making sure that if you land on the 'no-fly list' you can still buy a gun.

Gun control will not stop terrorism. On this we agree. But it would make it a whole fuck of a lot more difficult to carry out.

[Albertoo]

51. Planes and AR15s are two massively different kind of objects (pun intended)

Yes, it's feasible to better control access to planes (even if it is likely innovations of the shoe bomber type will surface, al Qaeda has tried new tricks targeting planes)

But control guns? In the US? With tunnels and submarines for drugs? The oil monarchies have been pumping billions to radical Islam, and they wouldn't finance a few assault rifles and munitions? They will, especially if the targets are made softer by disarming.

So we agree on the first part of your sentence and disagree on the second: "Gun control will not stop terrorism. On this we agree. But it would make it a whole fuck of a lot more difficult to carry out." I venture gun control will make attacks which occured in Kenya, Tunisia, Mali, France, Egypt, the US, etc, easier. IMHO.

[A Little Weird]

62. How would it be easier for a terrorist to carry out a mass shooting

If he couldn't buy a gun so easily? You are not making sense. What do tunnels and submarines for drugs have to do with anything?

Who's saying anything about disarming? I'm not naive enough to think we are going to get rid of all guns in the USA. But it shouldn't be easy to get a gun for anyone. And it should be damn near impossible to get a weapon like an AR15 that can make a single gunman capable of killing 49 people and wounding 53 others in such a short space of time.

You say AR15s are massively different from planes yet you are the one conflating terrorist attacks by guns and terrorist attacks by knives, bombs, and planes. I don't think you've thought your argument through very well.

I'm going to bed but I would find it interesting to hear what you think would be useful to combat events like Orlando. If gun control would only make matters worse, then what is your solution? Should we just throw up our hands and do nothing? Are you a fan of Trump's idea to ban all Muslims? (McVeigh and a lot of other prove that won't do the trick.) I can't wait to hear the solution that will end terrorism (I'm not even going to worry about Kenya and the other places you mentioned, even a solution that just works for the USA would be good enough for me).

[TipTok]

82. Maybe we could all go back to horse drawn carriages...

... so no one dies from auto accidents.

The bell is rung...

[A Little Weird]

84. Do we regulate automobiles?

Yes we do. There is an age requirement, you have to pass a test (both written and practical), you have a period where you can only drive under the supervision of an existing driver. Your car must be licensed and registered if it is going to be on the road. In most places, it also has to be insured. There are limits in how fast you can drive in different areas. In most places, you have to wear your seatbelt and maintain your car at a certain level of operational safety. If I see that grandpa can not operating his vehicle safely anymore, I can report that information to his doctor and there are procedures that can be done to revoke his driver's license against his will. If you violate the rules - speeding, driving while impaired, driving recklessly, etc - there are consequences ranging from fines to jail time and can include a revocation of your license to drive.

So if you want to compare guns to cars that's cool. Let's start regulating guns to the extent that we regulate cars. I think that would go a long way toward making these shootings less frequent.

[1939]

90. And how many people are driving without a license or a suspended license?

How many people are driving without insurance?

I have seen people brag on DU about using a magic marker to alter the registration date on their car license.

You must be licensed and registered to have a concealed carry license.

You can't buy a gun if you are under age.

I am all for doing it like cars in having checkpoints where you are inspected for concealed carry weapons and, if you are ineligible for CC, you are arrested with draconian punishments which might reduce the number of illegal guns on the street.

[A Little Weird]

97. Magic markering out registration dates is not a problem I've ever heard of. :)

And how many people are driving without a license or a suspended license? How many people are driving without insurance?

So does this mean we just shouldn't bother with laws since there are always going to be people that break them?


You must be licensed and registered to have a concealed carry license.

I'll take your word for it since gun laws vary from state to state. In my state you don't need any kind of license or registration to open carry a gun.

You can't buy a gun if you are under age.

Again, I'll take your word for it. But there's no federal minimum age restriction on possessing a long gun.

I am all for doing it like cars in having checkpoints where you are inspected for concealed carry weapons and, if you are ineligible for CC, you are arrested with draconian punishments which might reduce the number of illegal guns on the street.

Thank you for providing a concrete suggestion for reducing illegal guns.

[TipTok]

92. Setting aside that there are already significant regulations in place across the US..

... when it come to firearms.

One doesn't have a constitutional right to a car.

The threshold to restrict that right is and should be much higher.

The larger point is that you are wishing for something to go away that is already widely proliferated throughout the world and the US specifically. Physically and in the culture...

The bell can't be unrung.. Can't put the genie back in the bottle... Choose your metaphor...

[A Little Weird]

98. You're the one who brought cars into the conversation

And now you want to say it's not a valid comparison?

One doesn't have a constitutional right to a car.

The threshold to restrict that right is and should be much higher.

One doesn't have a constitutional right to a Sig Sauer MCX (or AR15 or whatever the particular model number is). There's absolutely nothing that says we can't regulate what kind of weapons are available - the 1986 law that regulates machine guns is an example of successful regulation. I absolutely support the right of citizens to have a single shot rifle. I know they can still be used to kill others, but I'm pretty sure a massacre of the scale we saw in Orlando wouldn't have been possible if he had to pause and load each round.

The larger point is that you are wishing for something to go away that is already widely proliferated throughout the world and the US specifically. Physically and in the culture...

The bell can't be unrung.. Can't put the genie back in the bottle... Choose your metaphor...

You make a strong point and I agree that it is a daunting task, but I think it is possible over time, to reduce the number of guns that are available to the point that they are not so easily obtainable. Australia had quite a bit of success with their effort, we should look at that as a place to start. I'm not deluded enough to think it will happen quickly but I'm also not willing to accept that these massacres should just be a routine part of our existence.

[whathehell]

102. +10 n/t

[uppityperson]

20. It also won't solve homelessness, or animal abuse.

Who says it will? Are you still thinking the Orlando murders were Islamic terrorism rather than homophobia?

[Albertoo]

22. So you know Islam's homophobia did not inform the shooter's attitude?

Yes, that shooter was also someone deranged and, maybe?, someone who couldn't come to terms with his own homosexual tendencies,

does it completely exonerate the influence of his religion which is stridently homophobic?

[uppityperson]

25. There is a difference between someone being of a religion and doing something awful, and

someone doing something awful in the name of the religion. This jerk was the first. He was Muslim, but killed all those people because he was a homophobe, it was a hate crime, anti-gay terrorism. This is in comparison to say, the 911 hijackers, who did what they did in the name of Islam and were Islamic terrorists.

It doesn't exonerate what religion he belonged to (drinking as he is said to have done, and other things show he wasn't a devoted, traditionalist Muslim) but he killed all those people to hurt gay people, as a hate crime.

[Albertoo]

31. But when the religion itself is openly and stridently homophobic?

[JI7]

29. get rid of drunk driving laws because people still drink and drive and get others killed

[Albertoo]

34. There is no religion calling for people to get drunk in order to kill

[Dem2]

85. Exactly

And murder laws too.

Basically, why have any laws if they don't work 100% to eliminate the problem?

Gun logic is anarchy and murder.

[leveymg]

30. The NRA and ISIS share this in common - without guns, they'd both just be a bunch of hateful morons.

Gun nuts can go to Hell.

[Albertoo]

32. The difference is that radical Islam doesn't care about secular laws

As of now, the NRA hasn't engaged in on a course of terrorism against civilians
Some gun nuts might talk about doing so, but talk is cheap.

ISIS bullets and knives have been far more material in recent weeks.

[leveymg]

68. Depends upon how you define terrorism.

The effect is the same. Mass casualties at the hands of suicidal gun nuts with a mission from a voice in their heads.

[CBGLuthier]

36. I see math is not your strong suit.

[Albertoo]

38. Except that it was my major, but OK

[laundry_queen]

111. Maybe you should ask for your money back. nt

[Albertoo]

116. No, I'm doing fine, thanks.

dozens shot in Paris, Bamako, Tunisia, Egypt, all countries with gun control.

I suggest you study Boolean logic.

[HuckleB]

124. So if perfection isn't achieved, then you don't want to do a damn thing.

Got it.

That's crap.

[Albertoo]

125. Reality shows terrorists always manage to get weapons

We're not discussing a perfect world, so empiricism could be useful to reasoning.

[HuckleB]

131. We're talking about much more than "terrorists."

You know you missed the boat, but you keep trying to say you're on it.

You're still on the shore. Sorry.

[Crunchy Frog]

133. Then why did they do a pathetic knife attack

With only 2 casualties, when they could have just as easily done a spectacular gun massacre?

[laundry_queen]

132. LOL

Bamako, Tunisia and Egypt are no comparison for western countries. LOL. That you would even compare them cracks me up.

Here in Canada, gun control works quite well. It works well in France also. It would work better here in Canada if we weren't constantly have to deal with the smuggling of zillions of guns from the US.

Explain what binary logic has to do with this. I like watching you dig.

[Albertoo]

146. LOL gun control works well in France and Canada?

You completely missed the point of this thread, I fear.
I did state in the OP that gun control in abstract terms is another issue.
What I'm saying is that islamic terrorism happens regardless of gun control

Canada:

Martin Couture-Rouleau, 25, an online supporter of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Syria, waited for two hours at a strip mall near a military training center in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec, before running down two soldiers with his Nissan Altima, killing Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent, 53.

France:

2 dead in knife attack (OP), dead in gun attack: Charlie Hebdo 10 , Bataclan 150

Islamic terrorism on soft targets increases, and you want less gun protection?

[laundry_queen]

152. LOL that you think more guns = more protection for soft targets

the derp is strong in this one.

[Albertoo]

156. LOL yes

And keep your 'derp' for yourself

[laundry_queen]

162. Nope, it's all yours. As all here can see. nt

[Albertoo]

163. You're the derp expert. Apparently.

Since you started using the term in your post #152

[laundry_queen]

164. Yep I am, and I say you own the derp in this thread.

Well it's been fun. Toodles.

[Albertoo]

165. Toodles. Good luck with this 'derp' you seem do fond of.

[greyl]

44. And we can talk about terrorism, but it won't solve the problem of absurd levels of gun violence. n

[Albertoo]

47. True, but that other issue should also include national security and democracy

- democracy: imagine Trump elected deciding to shoot all Mexicans (as a parallel to Warsaw Jews). Much harder if Hispanics have guns.

- national security: China gets allied to Mexico and wants to invade the continental US*:
much harder with an armed citizenry.

* which, I'll grant you, isn't an immediate prospect.

[greyl]

50. Your scenarios are far-fetched, and

you're ignoring the factual nuance that not all guns are the same, and that a realistic stride for progress is toward significant reduction of gun violence and mass murder incidents - not elimination of all gun violence.

[Albertoo]

54. Assault rifles are relevant to the two points I made (irrespective of islamic terrorism)

As to the scenarios being far fetched, I'd not be so sure: the Civil War was just 150 years ago, WWII 70, mere blips at the scale of human history. 400 years ago, a good chunk of the generation of ancestors of today's Caucasian Americans was busy starving or dying in the Thirty Years War.

[villager]

52. Breaking: "Two" is a different number than "forty-nine!"

But I guess math, like empathy, is simply out of reach for some.

[Albertoo]

57. And, as I already posted, 150 is higher than 49 (Bataclan in Paris)

Not sure who your empathy goes to. Not the Bataclan victims, apparently. Or the Bardo museum in Tunis. Or the Bamako hotel. Or the tourist buses in Egypt.

My point stands: islamists find assault rifles irrespective of gun laws.
They're here to stay. Why offer them soft targets?

[Logical]

58. You are really looking silly. Nt

[villager]

63. Ah, so can do the maths when higher body count gun deaths are involved!

Good on you!

[BlueNoMatterWho]

55. Knife-wielding attackers kill 29, injure 130 at China train station

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/

[Logical]

61. Did you even read the fucking story. 10 people with knifes!! How clueless.....

Are you? So 3 kills per person? Vs 49 with a gun? Math hard for you?

[BlueNoMatterWho]

64. Plus 13 injuries per knife.

[Logical]

87. Really stupid comparasion! Nt

[alc]

59. If we're comparing weapons, guns beat knives in kills per minute

But ill take explosives over either if that's the goal

[MariaThinks]

60. The common element appears to be islamic state

[G_j]

65. So there has to be a point to your OP

vote for Trump?

[Rex]

70. That one been showing their true colors as of late.

They want everyone armed to the teeth, I guess they crawled out of the Gungeon.

[BlueNoMatterWho]

66. Massacre at Chinese coal mine: Knife-wielding separatists blamed for attack that killed at least 50.

http://m.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1863165/least-50-reportedly-killed-september-xinjiang-attack

[Rex]

69. lulz

[Crunchy Frog]

71. Reading posts on DU makes me almost lose hope in humanity.

Really? A 2 victim stabbing is compared with a 100+ victim mass shooting?

[TubbersUK]

76. I know n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

72. Born in France

This happened in France.

Guns are harder to get there. Especially if you've already been arrested once for engaging with terrorists.

I don't understand what this has to do with our Constitution since the French are not bound to US Laws.

[MFM008]

78. dont cops in other countries

carry pepper spray?
something?

[Ilsa]

79. I'd rejoice that it was just me and hubby, not my kids, that were killed.

Yeah, we'll take our chances with the knife fight.

[Ilsa]

80. There's a reason for the expression, " He took a knife to a gunfight." nt

[Orrex]

83. BREAKING: US ARMY DISCONTINUES USE OF FIREARMS, ISSUES KNIVES TO SOLDIERS INSTEAD

Because, you know, they're much more deadly than semi-automatic rifles.

[Paladin]

89. Nicely put.

I honestly think that the pro-gunners look forward to knife crime reports---they never fail in trying to get maximum mileage out of such tragic occurrences.....

[treestar]

95. +1

[malaise]

88. Two versus 49 n/t

[Darb]

91. Wow, a living, breathing apologist.

What a surprise.....not. Please convince me that you are smart enough to differentiate between Orlando and that stabbing. Please. Because you are doing a real disservice to the NRA by bringing forth such a lame argument.

[ck4829]

96. Can't we PLEASE do something so we can get back to being killed by 'normal' spree shooters?!?!

These Islamic terrorists are taking work away from good ol' American spree shooters like Dylann Roof, Jim David Adkisson, Jason Dalton, Robert Lewis Dear, Adam Lanza, Elliot Rodger, etc.

[ck4829]

99. And what of Jo Cox who was assassinated by Thomas Mair?

Oh wait, just another 'mentally ill' 'normal' killer, nothing to see here.

[booley]

100. why are ou assuming ISIS is the only source for terrorism or mass killings

I mean first off, this guy killed TWO people?

Your typical mass murder is at least FOUR.
With a gun he could have killed far more even faster.

Secondly, Islamic terrorism is nowhere near the largest source of murder victims

Which means that actually gun control could very well help the problem of violence.

We can't control motive. But we do have control over means.

[Albertoo]

107. Islamism is currently the only form of worldwide terrorism

It occurs in all countries ('Muslim' countries included), and it occurs irrespective of gun control laws. So I must strongly disagree with your last sentence:

We can't control motive. But we do have control over means.

We have control over means?

Planes?
Knives?
Fertilizers?

Looks to me it would make more sense to control motive

[Crunchy Frog]

134. I'll be fascinated to see how you plan to do that.

[Albertoo]

144. If that objective was clear, many mistakes would be avoided (like invading Iraq)

Invading Iraq was obvioulsy, from the get-go, sure to inflame islamic nationalism

Conversely, chasing the talibans in the NW provinces of Pakistan would have forced Pakistan to stop funding extremism, something they're still doing.

Small steps in the right way, rather than big leaps into stupidity like Iraq.

[KT2000]

103. obsessed much??

[Albertoo]

113. In 1932, talking frequently about Hitler would have been obsession?

Dangers should be exposed, not dusted under the carpet.

[KT2000]

123. Yes, obsessed.

with AR-15's

[Albertoo]

126. It was a Sig Sauer in Orlando

[KT2000]

135. who gives a shit

the obsession is guns of all brands I am sure.

[Albertoo]

143. I was just answering your point

[pnwmom]

104. What happened in Orlando was primarily a homophobic hate crime,

with ISIS being used as an excuse. The shooter's personal philosophy was a confusing jumble of opposing ideologies -- all used as an excuse for his homophobic self-loathing .

[Albertoo]

106. LOL: so you 'know' Islam's virulent homophobia did not contribute to the shooter's homophobia?

Homophobia is some kind of virus which is transmitted by physical causes then?
Not by homophobic ideologies like Islam?
OK then..

[pnwmom]

108. I know, as I said, that he espoused conflicting beliefs, supporting

groups that were vehemently opposed to each other.

There isn't one Islam and not all Muslims are homophobic, particularly in the U.S.

[Albertoo]

110. The islamic texts are violently homophobic

I am aware that there are many non-homophobic 'Muslims', but their stance is not islamic.
The sunna, the hadiths clearly condemn homosexuality, and the main schools of islamic jurisprudence condemn gays from some years in prison to the death penalty.

Now, explain your initial comment to me: why were you so sure the shooter's homophobia was not informed by his homophobic religion?

[pnwmom]

118. He's living in a society where there is so much homophobia that I don't

think you can limit it to one source.

And I don't think he was acting out loyalty to ISIS -- he also allied himself with some of its enemies. He was acting out of homophobic hate, from a number of sources, Muslim and other.

[Albertoo]

120. And where do you think the homophobia of islamic societies come from?

Hint: these countries share a belief in texts which are homophobic.

[pnwmom]

122. What I'm saying is that he didn't go on his rampage out of loyalty to ISIS.

He wasn't loyal to ISIS -- he also supported some of its enemies.

He grew up in a homophobic society -- there are plenty of Christians just as homophobic -- and he learned to hate himself, and everyone else who was gay.

[Albertoo]

127. Right. So you know Islam did not inform his homophobia

He was the practicing member of religion whose mainstream is violently homophobic
He swore allegiance to a radical islamic group,
but you, somehow, know there's no connect between his religion and his homophobia?

[pnwmom]

138. No, I'm not saying that. I think it was one of the things that did "inform" his

homophobia, but he wasn't acting as an ISIS terrorist. My guess is that was just his justification at the end -- trying to turn himself into a hero.

[Albertoo]

142. Homophobic religions produce homophobes

Not all believers in these homophobic religions will become homophobes,
but far too many.

[pnwmom]

148. And so do homophobic cultures, and there is plenty of that in Florida

and most of the United States.

[Albertoo]

149. There is something called numbers

Western and Asian democracies are gay friendly by world standards (India excepted)

Countries where Islam is dominant, not so.

[ileus]

105. You can't say Islamic terrorism...

It's mean.

[840high]

137. I can.

[Logical]

112. LOL, ok, you are clueless. You really want me in a room with a knife or a AR-15 and start killing?

[Albertoo]

117. Off topic: islamists get both irrespective of local legislations, and that's the point

Pretty fictional stories are not very efficient tools to portray reality.

[HuckleB]

115. Derp. Derp. Derp.

Please stop.

[Albertoo]

119. So there's no terrorism and all is well, right?

[HuckleB]

121. And more derp.

[Albertoo]

128. Well, you look like the expert on derp

so I'll leave this interesting derp topic to you

[HuckleB]

130. You keep posting it, so you might be the expert.

[Albertoo]

147. derp

[leeroysphitz]

140. When a terrists can kill & injure 100 people with a knife...

Oh nevermind.

[Iggo]

141. Save the Guns!

[CanonRay]

151. Well, that was one of the stupidest statements I've ever seen on DU.

[Bensonhurst_braciole]

153. Yeah, but...but...well, you know.

[pnwmom]

154. Two deaths vs. 49 is the difference between being armed with a knife

and being armed with assault weapons.

Banning civilian access to assault weapons won't eliminate terrorism but it will make it harder.

[Albertoo]

159. Terrorists always manage to find assault weapons, regardless of gun laws

See the attacks in Egypt, Tunisia, Paris(2)

[pnwmom]

160. And burglars break into buildings. But you can keep many out by simply

locking your doors.

[Albertoo]

161. Your parallel fails

If locked doors (gun control, I suppose) worked, there would not be mass killings by islamists in countries where there already is gun control.

Per capita, there have been massively more assault weapon attacks in gun control countries (Belgium, France) than in the US. By numbers alone, the case is for gun ownership.

[malaise]

155. Maybe we in the West can stop bombing their countries and

destroying their homes and infrastructure - just a small idea.

[Albertoo]

158. What has it got to do with the OP?

But to answer your off topic point, I have quite often posted that I believe the Iraq War was stupid and that GW will go down in history as one of the worst US presidents ever.

[Darb]

166. I see your slip.

Jussayin.