Officers may have shot Orlando club patrons

[dixiegrrrrl]

ORLANDO — Omar Mateen, the killer who claimed allegiance to the Islamic State, hid in a bathroom at Pulse, a gay nightclub where he had slaughtered scores of people. A wall of cinder block separated him from a team of police officers outside. For three hours early Sunday morning, crisis negotiators tried to end the siege.

Then Mateen — whom police said had acted “cool and calm” during discussions — talked about killing more people. Alarmed, police placed an explosive device against the wall and detonated it. The breach failed; the hole wasn’t large enough to allow for a successful rescue.

A cop rammed his Bearcat armored vehicle through the club wall. Hostages poured out. So did Mateen, guns blazing.
With quick efficiency, officers shot him dead.

A law enforcement source close to the investigation who asked not to be named said a crowd of up to 300 people and the complex layout of the dance club may have resulted in some patrons being struck by gunfire from officers.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/nation-now/officers-may-have-shot-orlando-club-patrons/243700448

[malaise]

1. We've been suggesting that for days

Had to be.

[SirBrockington]

2. 100 shot

Just seemed an unreal number to me. Did they every say the size of the clips or shots from the AR-15. I would think it had to be over 200 total for that amount to be hit. A standard 30 round mag would have been 7 separate reloads and I would think in between someone may have tried to tackle him or something. It just sounded very suspicious and unusual.

[MillennialDem]

8. Well in a crowded club like that the bullets could very well go through more than 1 person. Not that

I'm necessarily suggesting that...

[Aristus]

3. The 'good guys with the guns'?

Color me shocked...

[dixiegrrrrl]

15. roh oh...

Sounds like there a quite a few of us who need to be hanging out at the old watering hole next week.......

[PJMcK]

5. If this is true, it's difficult to blame the police

The chaos of the situation and the uncertainty would probably result in some people being caught in the crossfire. Sometimes we have to give the police the benefit of the doubt.

[joeybee12]

6. Exactly...not a surprise...and not intentional

And really slays the argument that everyone in there should have been armed.

[PJMcK]

7. Curiously, no one in the club seems to have been armed

So far, there haven't been any reports that any of the patrons were armed and counter-attacked Mateen. Isn't that interesting?

If there had been a gun battle between patrons and the assailant, there could have been even more death.

These daily fatal misuses of firearms is a social disease and like the Zika virus, there doesn't seem to be a vaccine.

[MillennialDem]

9. It's because in most shootings like this, the armed people tend to run just like everyone

else. The suggestion that they will be a hero is nonsense, it's in the pro gun bible but it's bullshit.

Really you have three choices in a mass shooting situation:

Long range: Run

Medium range or near people already shot: hide or play dead and hope for the best. If you have access to an office, turn the lights off, lock the door, and make it look unoccupied.

Close range: only chance is to grab the gun/tackle the shooter.

Shooting back just isn't going to happen.

[PJMcK]

10. Thanks for the analysis of options

Actually, demographics suggests exactly what you wrote, MillennialDem. It's probably a given that a certain percentage of the patrons had handguns in the nightclub. The NRA talking point that the good guy with the gun will stop the bad guy with a gun is fallacious and ridiculous. When gunfire starts, most everyone runs away.

One other possibility is that the patrons of the club were of a mindset that didn't feel the need to carry guns. (wink)

[MillennialDem]

11. Yep, obviously at least 100 people there. 200? 500? 1000? The probability that no one was carrying a

gun is redonkulous.

[dixiegrrrrl]

16. Somebody wrote the same common sense thing

Basically, he said, in a situation like that, you are dead, for all intents and purposes, so you have nothing to lose if you are close enough to tackle the shooter.

[MillennialDem]

17. Right. Facing someone with a gun is obviously bad, but if you

run away at close range they'll just shoot you in the back anyway.

[Lee-Lee]

12. Illegal to carry in a club in Florida even if you have a permit and are not drinking

So by law even had anyone there had a CCW they could not carry.

[PJMcK]

13. Thanks for that information, Lee-Lee (n/t)

[dixiegrrrrl]

22. An argument can be made that being in a large herd of people

in a gun free zone, is rather dangerous, since those with mass mayhem on their mind would choose such an
obvious target rich location.

[Lee-Lee]

23. There is a pattern to where these types events occur nt

[philosslayer]

14. The club was a gun free zone

So of course no one else had a firearm.

[Iggo]

18. Okay.

[Blue_Tires]

19. Uh... The first person he fought with was an armed security guard

There were a few at the club...

[PJMcK]

21. Thanks, I missed that detail

My observation was really about the patrons. However, as Lee-Lee pointed out down thread, it's illegal to carry handguns into a nightclub in Florida. The patrons wouldn't have been armed even if they had concealed carry permits.

[Blue_Tires]

20. Not really surprised in that situation...

[UTUSN]

24. *Yes* and *of COURSE* - which is actually an argument against the gunnerters.