First Ohio girl to win masonry competition gets replaced by a 3rd place boy at Nationals.

[pnwmom]

This makes no sense. Someone entered in the scores incorrectly, swapping the scores of the top scoring girl and the third place boy. And now the boy's being sent to the National competition, with no appeal for the actual winner -- the first girl ever to receive the State gold medal.

According to the judge, she scored 72 points higher than the 2nd place finisher, even though scores are usually only a few points apart.

So is the fact that this happened to a girl just a coincidence? If it is, why can't they correct their mistake?

ON EDIT:

It gets worse. In April, when she won the competition, instructors from other schools were surprised. They thought the 3rd place finisher had it "in the bag." Apparently he did.


This is the first story, from when she won in April:

http://portsmouth-dailytimes.com/news/7406/masonry-student-wins-gold

Despite the odds being against her, Shania Clifford from the Scioto County Career and Technical Center’s Masonry program won the first place gold medal at the State Skills USA competition held April 26 and 27.

“The instructors from the other schools didn’t expect her to win. They kept telling me that there was another student who had the competition in the bag. Well, he placed third. For her to go up there and beat them, it’s quite a feat,” said Masonry Instructor, Larry Moore.

SNIP

Clifford competed against other masonry students in a column building contest. Students were given specific measurements and guidelines and had to execute them within a given time-frame as best they could.

“Shania won with a 72 point lead over the second place competitor, which is pretty unheard of,” said Moore. “Most win with only a 5 point lead, but she really pulled ahead. I always tell my students they can do anything if they have determination, desire and drive.”

SNIP

___________________________________

And this is the story from yesterday's Columbus Dispatch:


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/06/19/teen-girl-bumped-from-national-masonry-competition.html


Shania Clifford, a 17-year-old from Scioto County, became the first female to win a gold medal in the SkillsUSA Ohio masonry competition in late April.

But in mid-May, Clifford found out she would not be attending the next level of the competition, a national leadership and skills conference held in Louisville, Kentucky.

And she found out via Facebook.

Clifford, who had just completed her junior year at the Scioto County Career Technical Center, said she saw a Facebook posting by the male competitor who originally placed third in the competition announcing that he would be competing at the national level next week.

SNIP

Larry Moore, her instructor, said the scores of the top performers usually vary by only a couple of points, but Clifford’s column for the state competition was exceptional.

“She had the best plumb there,” Moore said. “Two or three corners were perfect.” Plumb refers to how straight a vertical edge is.

Stan Jennings, superintendent of the Scioto County Career Technical Center, was notified by SkillsUSA Ohio that Clifford would no longer be competing. A vague explanation was given: “The scores were inappropriately put in.”

SNIP

[liberal N proud]

1. Just flat out WRONG!

[In_The_Wind]

2. That's not fair and should be corrected before the national competition.

[LiberalFighter]

3. It is very suspicious.

1) Why did they wait so long?
2) Why didn't they contact her?
3) What is the likelihood they screwed up that bad?
4) Why do they allow such incompetence?

[pnwmom]

4. It is even worse. I just added to the OP a link to the original April story.

It says that the other instructors were surprised that she beat the 3rd place finisher -- they'd been sure he had it in the bag.

[marble falls]

5. 4) How did they think this was going to pass unnoticed?

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

10. And the most obvious question of all - why dont they just FIX IT??? nm

[pnwmom]

14. Because they don't want to and no one, apparently, can make them. n/t

[Ash_F]

50. Bureaucracy in a nutshell.

[TeamPooka]

76. misogyny in a nutshell.

[smirkymonkey]

92. Exactly!

Not even thinly veiled misogyny. Blatant, outrageous misogyny.

[Ash_F]

93. Maybe. I don't know. Misogyny is also about power.

You may not have the same definition of bureaucracy as I do.

Overcoming both misogyny and bureaucracy takes power.

Until that kid has the power to fire whoever makes the decisions in that organization, she won't get any justice.

As the other poster wrote. Nobody can make them change their decision. Sometimes you have to change the people.

[Hortensis]

102. Seems very likely. Hopefully some

group will come forward to help. This is where lawsuits against all people and entities involved and citizen demands for firings come in.

[dembotoz]

6. glass ceilings sometimes start early

[seabeckind]

7. Is it somehow more of a travesty because it's a ....?

What if the situation had been reversed?

Is there a lesson here deeper than the obvious?

[pnwmom]

8. This is the first girl EVER to win this competition. Forgive me if I think

there's a good chance, in a masonry contest never before won by a girl, that her gender had something to do with this "mistake."

Someone didn't want the girl to go to the national competition. And others chose not to fix the error when it was called to their attention.

[seabeckind]

9. So "girl" is the most important factor in your mind?

Unfairness isn't a problem except under certain circumstances?

Just to make sure I understand where you're coming from.

[pnwmom]

11. I think the way she was treated probably had something to do with her gender.

The construction field is not a welcoming place for women.

[seabeckind]

16. Would you be as upset if the situation were reversed?

I don't believe you've answered that question.

BTW, this type of cronyism happens all the time. Day in, day out. Most of the time it happens only to men because of the demographics.

So is it a serious problem only under gender circumstnces?

[pnwmom]

19. Of course it shouldn't happen to anyone. But, yes, when this happens to a girl

who is already at a disadvantage competing in a male-dominated field, it is that much more egregious.

[seabeckind]

21. Thanks for the honest answer.

Assume misogyny until proven otherwise.

Of course proving a negative being the only to change your mind means you'll never change your mind.

Enjoy your day.

[pnwmom]

24. When there is a pattern of discrimination against a group and you see something

that looks like discrimination, you should have a higher than usual degree of suspicion.

[seabeckind]

70. So "girl" equals "group"?

Just where does this extrapolation occur and why?

Rhetorical question.

Sometimes a table is just a table.

[pnwmom]

72. Yeah, maybe this was just a coincidence. But when there is a pattern of

discrimination affecting members of a group -- as there is affecting females in the building industry - then an instance that looks like possible discrimination needs to be carefull considered.

[Bohunk68]

96. I'm with you on this. It is totally sexist.

She was blatantly discriminated against. My question- who was that third place kid related to?

[Chemisse]

111. What you said is actually a contradiction.

This whole thing could be due to:

A. the fact that she was a girl and people there just couldn't stand for a girl to win

B. the boy 'had it in the bag', meaning somebody with power wanted that kid (their kid?) to win

But it can't be both ways at once and frankly, option B seems more likely to me. It's extra sad because she is a girl and she would've been the first, but really it would be sad for any kid to be cheated out of a deserved win.

[trumad]

56. LOL

misogyny--the irony.

[Scootaloo]

137. Oh for fuck's sake

I'm not a big fan of pnwmom in general, but she's making a fair point here. Whether or not this is intentionally because she's a girl, the fact is that she's already on an uphill trudge on the basis of that, so this situation, even if it's an honest mistake, cuts deeper, reinforces assumptions, and discourages advancement more than if the genders were reversed.

So, put that under your trilby and have a nice day yourself.

[jberryhill]

134. "It happened" to two kids. Was the second place winner also female?

Did they go to third place to find a male, or did they skip over a female who had won second place?

Why go two deep, if they wanted to send a male?

[Doremus]

149. I wondered what happened to #2 also. nt

[oberliner]

151. The entered the wrong numbers onto the final scoresheet

I'm guessing that they put some numbers in the wrong column or something like that for one of the categories, so it probably affected totals for a number of the participants and impacted the final standings.

[Thor_MN]

23. Care to cite an example? You proffer only a hypothetical situation.

Would it be a serious problem? Yes.

Now, please provide some links to document your "Day in, day out, happens all the time." It's so common, you must be able to find 5 or 6 examples.

[seabeckind]

26. Nah.

[Thor_MN]

28. Yeah, I thought so.

[seabeckind]

29. You'd think it anyway

so why should I bother.

If you have never seen discrimination against anyone who is a little different from the acceptable norm or not coming from an entitled position,

you didn't get out much in the real world.

So never mind.

[Thor_MN]

31. If you want to dismiss this documented discrimination because it happened to a female,

well, I guess that says something about you, not about me.

I'm thinking you are the one that doesn't get out much with that attitude...

Have a nice life.

[seabeckind]

33. Did I dismiss it?

Show me where.

Go ahead.

I dare ya.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

90. I dare ya......oh mercy!..it's teh heavy artillery of critical argument.

[seabeckind]

94. Think of it more like put up or shut up.

If you're going to make accusations, be prepared to back them up. Based on precedent there isn't a lot of that or civility on this forum these days.

(not you specifically, more the general you. Apology in advance.)

It'll settle out. I can deal with it.

[A Simple Game]

45. When I read your post I thought "there is a person who has lead a sheltered life, or

a person who is the beneficiary of cronyism and/or nepotism."

Open your eyes and view the real world, scary as it is.

Signed,
A Past Victim of Cronyism

[Thor_MN]

97. Hmm. I would have to say that your thinking is projection.

I asked the other poster to document his dismissal of this case because of the aggressive "happens all the time" stance. Since the poster could not come up with even one instance of something that "happens day in/day out", I would have to guess that says something about that poster's core beliefs about this case.

I am very aware of the real world, understand cronyism and nepotism. I saw the aggressive hot air balloon of the other poster and called the bluff. Like I expected, all hot air.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Think of it like a hate crime.

A hate crime is not a crime because the person who perpetrates it is angry or hateful. it's a crime because of the terrorizing message that it spreads beyond the victim. It's an attack on a class, not just an individual.

In this case, (not a hate crime, just using the analogy) it has all the appearance of impropriety, but the targeted demographic suggests an intent behind the 'input grades' and the concern here is not just the injury to the individual, but the message it sends to the entire field.

So, yes, it's going to have more outrage attached than just the injustice to the individual victim here.

[seabeckind]

38. Maybe I might understand it if I hadn't lived it.

As a man.

A white man.

I've been the victim of plain old cronyism. Victim of nepotism (on one occasion benefited from it). Victim of reverse discrimination. Seen lots of other victims also.

Tho sometimes it happens out of hatred, most times it happens out of pure favoritism.

Then again it could just be a mistake that someone is using to generate a response for gain.

Try adding that to your mix.

[AtheistCrusader]

44. Hold on.

You seemed incredulous that it could even be that sort of possibility and why. So I illustrated a mechanism by which it could be or rather why it generated that much outrage.

As a white male myself, I have observed that sort of mechanism in action on others. Am I certain that is the case here? No. I am not.

What is 'pure favoritism' and why would that be better?

[seabeckind]

48. What are you talking about?

Insisting there's a zebra here in Wyoming because you see something that looks like horse shit?

Are you for real? Do you just make up these motives for everyone you come across?

Who the hel said anything about which was better?

Try taking off your badge of crusaderism and walk around in the real world.

Ready to right all injustices in the world as soon as we can get the right injustice label on them.

Some attitudes are just plain insufferable.

Crusader? Lord.

[AtheistCrusader]

67. I'm responding to your post.

"Are you for real? Do you just make up these motives for everyone you come across?"
"Crusader? Lord."

You are not aware of how I came by my nickname, so please stop attempting to make something out of it.
Especially in the same breath you are feigning exasperation at my response to what you said, accusing ME of jumping to conclusions over 'horse shit'.

I'm done with people who accuse someone of something while doing the same thing in the same breath.

[seabeckind]

95. Hey, you're the one come charging in on your war horse brandishing a sword

ready to fight for some maiden's honor.

I don't care anything about the derivation of your user name, it just seemed to be indicative of your attitude.

The horse shit was a variation on the term: when you hear hoofbeats, don't assume zebras. Or something like that.

Now I'm keeping you from your grail search....

[AtheistCrusader]

139. I do not own a horse.

[seabeckind]

105. You really think that it doesn't exist?

And you really think that it isn't an issue for those people opposed to you?

Bubble.

[obamanut2012]

32. .....

[seabeckind]

34. Try looking up double standard.

Cute moji.

[Marr]

42. Everything is political here.

Some accusations are to be accepted at face value, others rejected out of hand. It all depends on how that particular allegation aligns with peoples' political interests. It's unfortunate, and it gives us some enormous blind spots.

[seabeckind]

51. It does seem to be that way,, doesn't it?

Must be the season.

Or global warming.

[we can do it]

98. It is a travesty because this shit never ends.

[seabeckind]

108. Sure doesn't. And gender is just one of the factors.

Just one.

Color. Religion. Background. Geography. Language. Income level. Educational level.

Shit never ends.

[blackspade]

12. Horrible!

What a pack of assholes.

[knightmaar]

13. “The scores were inappropriately put in.” ??

Are they arguing that *her* score was entered incorrectly, and that she doesn't deserve the gold medal?

“This error affected results for several students,” Halpin said in the email, “and resulted in the rankings showing an incorrect winner of the competition.” Halpin added that no errors were made on the judges’ scoring sheets.

So no errors were made on the scoring sheets, she's keeping her gold medal, but some other error means she doesn't deserve to go to the nationals? Weird.

[pnwmom]

15. Her instructor says her tower was better by 72 points than the next best.

But her score got switched with the 3rd place finishers, somehow.

So even though everyone seems to be acknowledging that she won and there was a paperwork "mistake" -- tough luck, they're sending the boy to the nationals.

(I think the quote about the incorrect ranking refers to the ranking sheet that went to the nationals. She was incorrectly listed there. But there isn't any doubt that she won the competition, as was reported right after the April competition.)

Larry Moore, her instructor, said the scores of the top performers usually vary by only a couple of points, but Clifford’s column for the state competition was exceptional.

“She had the best plumb there,” Moore said. “Two or three corners were perfect.” Plumb refers to how straight a vertical edge is.

[seabeckind]

17. Might be Hanlon's razor

[csziggy]

47. If it were simply a stupid mistake, they would fix it

Why stand behind a mistake of that magnitude? This girl had proven she was by far the best in the state competition - why send a distant third place competitor in her place if the mistake was an honest one?

For some reason, the state is willing to send a lower ranking craftsman to the national competition rather than send the more capable person. The major glaring difference between the state winner and the other competitors is obvious - she is not the same gender as any other winner in the state's history.

In my opinion this is more a case of Heinlein's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

[seabeckind]

49. Not before somebody builds a whole story around it.

Which happened in this case.

The "state" had nothing to do with it.

But it sure raised some hackles didn't it?

[csziggy]

55. The state runs the competition - so they have everything to do with it

From the second linked story in the OP:

Brittany Halpin, a spokeswoman for the Ohio Department of Education, which sponsors the competition, said in an email, “An error was made during the entry of scores into the final score spreadsheet.”

Though maybe this situation has more to do with the instructor or with the technical center than with the girl - from the same linked article:

This isn’t the first instance of a discrepancy involving a competitor from Scioto County Career Technical Center. In 2010, a similar incident occurred when a student of Moore’s was not allowed to compete at the national level after also winning first place in the state masonry competition.

[trumad]

58. Crickets

[seabeckind]

62. It's probably tinnitus.

It could be something serious. You should have it checked.

Just friendly advice. No charge.

[LanternWaste]

64. A Sen Frist-like diagnosis! Clever!

An irrelevant, Sen Frist-like diagnosis! Clever!

[trumad]

66. I have tinnitus

and that ain't it. It's more like douchebaggery.

[seabeckind]

69. So everyone says you have an attitude problem?

That is serious.

[sheshe2]

140. You are making fun of people with tinnitus?

It is NOT FUNNY! I suffer from it.

Hey seabeck? You are not very kind,

[seabeckind]

61. False equivalency.

Equating the "state runs the competition" to "the state is willing to send" is a downright lie. It implies an impropriety on the part of the state. That denying this girl a position was a deliberate act on the part of the "state".

Sponsorship is something totally different.

BTW, based on your second part it looks like there is a pattern going on here and it doesn't necessarily involve the idea of a "girl" being denied the position because of gender.

It looks much more like cronyism. And it should be corrected -- as cronyism.

Now that it's turned into a gender issue, lord knows when it'll be corrected.

[LanternWaste]

65. Odd, you've created a narrative-- something you've indicted others fo

"It looks much more like cronyism..."

Odd, you've created a narrative-- something you've indicted others for in this thread. However, I'm sure that when you yourself do it, it's righteous and accurate.

[trumad]

68. Dudes trolling.

And not very well.

[we can do it]

101. He will be gone soon -

[seabeckind]

106. That's one way to avoid inconvenient arguments. n/t

[seabeckind]

71. Does look more like cronyism

Still a serious problem but one which is corrected in a totally different manner than gender discrimination.

As far as most of your post I find it a bit vague.

Nowhere did I create anything other than an alternate possibility.

You guys are the ones refusing to look at any possibility other than the one that fits your agenda.

[Gormy Cuss]

158. ^^^This^^^

It would be easy enough to show the error and the corrections to every contestant whose final placement was incorrect. Something stinks here.

[CrispyQ]

18. “The scores were inappropriately put in.”

Then fix it! Holy fuck, how hard can it be? And really, does the young man want to compete in a competition he didn't rightfully qualify for?

[Bettie]

20. Sounds as if "Mr. Third Place" has someone

who is going to bat for him.

After all he "had it in the bag" and no one is actually saying she didn't deserve the first place finish.

I bet the second place finisher is kind of angry too, since his scores would have also been higher than the guy who went on.

[Chemisse]

112. That's what I think too.

I think the sexist aspect of the outcome is just an unhappy coincidence (unhappy because it triggered so much publicity).

[LisaL]

165. Seriously?

It's a masonry competition.

[davidn3600]

22. Third place boy obviously has a daddy who has some connections in the right places

Not so sure it's because of gender. The girl could have been a boy and still had the same thing happen if they were damned certain to send the 3rd place boy.

I wouldnt say it is a shocker either. Some of the trades (masonry, electricians, etc) tend to have some deeply-rooted nepotism in some locations. You don't get anywhere unless you have people in the right places who can pull strings for you and get you in the door.

[seabeckind]

27. There ya go. Now Thor_MN is going to ask for a specific example.

Cause he's never seen it happen.

That means it didn't.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. Is there anything left of that axe you've been grinding?

[Betty Karlson]

25. Very annoying when the best candidate is ignored because a weaker candidate has everything rigged.

Staggering, that there can be no appeal after such blatant fraud and corruption.

[mrr303am]

30. We're talking Ohio here,

the state whose Governor is John Kasich (R), where both the State Senate & State House of Reps are controlled by Republicans, and who just recently defunded our Medicaid system of funding for ALL abortions & other misc. female medical care, and are looking at ways to also defund Planned Parenthood. Ohio the Heart of it all, including discrimination.

[Silver_Witch]

35. Typical!

As a woman she will get used to being replaced by men!

[DemonGoddess]

39. What's even worse

is that they're "allowing her" to keep her gold medal which she earned. The girl wants to compete in the slot that she won. Why "allow her" to keep the medal, if she hadn't won it in the first place?

This whole thing STINKS.

[L. Coyote]

40. Ohio, reminds me of 2004. Obviously, the boy is a Republican and the girl a Democrat.

It is a tradition in Ohio to rig stuff for the Republican losers.

[IronLionZion]

41. I would think people would want to make history with the first female

and I find it hard to believe that someone is deliberately trying to keep a girl out of masonry.

If it turns out to be straight up sexism then the organization needs to be called out for it. But if it's a case of the boy's parents pulling strings or something then that should be called out to. Either way it should be investigated to bring out the truth.

If it made the news, then it's no secret anymore.

I've hired a female handyman (handywoman?) before and she did excellent work and came up with good solutions to some challenging issues. My mom objected to me hiring a woman for labor that required heavy lifting and power tools but I didn't care about that.

[WhiteTara]

59. Or wouldn't want the boys to be "shown up"

by a girl.

[annabanana]

43. Everyone should face & tweet this.. I'll bet the noise

will go a ways towards getting it "straightened out". . .

[oberliner]

46. The boy actually won

The scores were entered incorrectly the first time. Once they were entered correctly, they made the appropriate adjustment.

This was a clerical error that some folks are trying to turn into something else.

[Captain Stern]

63. That's also the impression that I got from the article

It sounds to me like the scores from the judge's cards were entered on the final score sheet incorrectly. This caused the first, and third-place, finishes to be reversed.

It seems like they should have noticed the problem sooner, since the margin of victory (72 points) was so far off of the norm. And the young lady certainly shouldn't have had to find out about it on Facebook.

[pnwmom]

73. That isn't what her instructor said, or how the reporter viewed it.

Larry Moore, her instructor, said the scores of the top performers usually vary by only a couple of points, but Clifford’s column for the state competition was exceptional.

“She had the best plumb there,” Moore said. “Two or three corners were perfect.” Plumb refers to how straight a vertical edge is.

[oberliner]

74. Yes it is

In fact, the article (and the instructor) make note of how unusual the score was, which suggests that perhaps something was amiss in the scoring.

If normally the top performers vary by only a couple of points and, in this case, the discrepancy was 70 points, does that not point to a potential error?

[pnwmom]

75. No, it just points to how exceptional her work was, as the instructor noted. nt

[oberliner]

77. The teacher only praised the plumb

That accounts for 125 out of 1000 points.

For someone to win by 70 points, they would have to average scoring nearly 8 points higher than the nearest competitor in each of nine different categories.

It seems really not at all far fetched that someone would have just entered the wrong number into the Excel spreadsheet.

Certainly you must agree that such an error is more plausible than a deliberate conspiracy to falsify scores in order to ensure that the winner is not a girl.

[pnwmom]

78. Or she could have scored many points higher in one category and slightly higher

in all the rest.

I think it is more plausible to think that someone monkeyed with the results than that, on the night she was awarded the gold medal, a supposed error of that magnitude wasn't obvious.

[oberliner]

82. "Most win with only a 5 point lead"

She won by 72 points.

You think it is more plausible that people falsified scores because they didn't want to see a girl win the competition than that there was a tabulation error that didn't get caught right away?

[pnwmom]

83. No one thought her score looked wrong on the night she got her gold medal.

Last edited Mon Jun 20, 2016, 02:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Something happened later. Her score got swapped with the third place finisher.

[oberliner]

85. Nobody saw her score card on the night she got her gold medal

They don't release the scorecards until days after the competition is over.

[LisaL]

163. Sounds like they should have.

If her score was 72 points higher than her competitor's, and that doesn't normally happen, then sure sounds like something could have been wrong. I don't understand why organizers didn't check the scores carefully.

[AntiBank]

141. I think you are correct and many others are knee jerking

[oberliner]

150. Thanks

This was definitely handled very poorly. They should have communicated to this student with a clear explanation and apology for the error. And probably should've let her go to the national competition anyway.

[AntiBank]

153. agreed

[Odin2005]

104. More like that was the excuse after the fact and they just didn't like the results.

Bunch of emotionally stunted man-children who couldn't fathom that a GIRL could win so thet doctored the scores to get the results they want.

[oberliner]

110. You really think that's more likely than a clerical error?

They doctored the scores to prevent the girl from winning?

[obamanut2012]

161. That is what happened

[obamanut2012]

160. No, the girl won by 72 points

They claimed later -- THREE MONTHS LATER -- that's what happened, then said, oops, nopesers, she actually did win! But, too bad, the THIRD PLACE boy is going!

The second place boy also was jumped over.

[oberliner]

162. No, she didn't

Haplin said actions are being taken to improve the scoring process. Below is her full statement, on behalf of SkillsUSA, to WSAZ:

"During the 2016 SkillsUSA Ohio masonry competition, student scores were entered into score sheets by judges. Those scores were then entered into a spreadsheet manually to calculate final scores. When student scores were entered into the final score spreadsheet, an error was made and some scores were inadvertently duplicated, causing some students to receive double the score that they actually received. This error affected results for several students and resulted in the rankings showing an incorrect winner of the competition.

"No errors were made in the judges' score sheets themselves, and the final corrected scores reflect the scores on the individual score sheets for each student. Upon discovery of the error through the regular review process, the duplicate scores were removed to show the actual winner of the competition. SkillsUSA confirmed that Ohio has followed all policies pertaining to the resolution of errors.

"The student who should have been awarded the gold medal at the competition will be the one to represent Ohio as the national competitor. The student who was incorrectly named the winner at the state competition is still invited to attend and observe the national competition. Corrective actions are being taken to improve the scoring process.

"Regarding the way the student was informed of the error, the Ohio Department of Education's policy is to communicate with each student's school district, rather than with the students themselves. As soon as the error was discovered, administrators from all affected students' school districts were contacted."

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Teen-girl-from-Scioto-County-bumped-from-national-masonry-competition-383877471.html

Incidentally, from that same article:

Larry Moore, Clifford's instructor at the technical center, says this is not the first time SkillsUSA has taken a title away from one of his students. He says in 2010, the same thing happened to another junior student of his, a boy. He says about two weeks after the boy won the state competition, his title was also taken away because of a scoring error.

[rjsquirrel]

52. Surely that contest was "rigged"!

After all a woman won it. That can't happen.

[pistegypsy]

53. Nothing to do with a 'girl' winning . . .

Like most things in the construction industry, it's the squeaky wheel and who greases it problem. The 'prize' was bought and paid for long before the competition was judged.

[niyad]

54. sexism is alive, and, unfortunately, all too well in every aspect of our society.

[malthaussen]

57. My great-grandfather was a master mason.

Helped build the original hall for PSU. It seems it should be rather simple to correct this soi-disant error, if they felt like it.

-- Mal

[ISeeA BrightFuture]

60. HERE'S A NEW PETITION YOU CAN SIGN TO MAKE THEM REVERSE THEIR DECISION!!!!!!!!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/127/419/446/

[byronius]

80. Signed. What a terribly unfair thing this is.

[Lunabell]

142. Signed

Boy, this really got my goat. She won fair and square and the little boys couldn't handle it!

[Runningdawg]

79. I see not much has changed

since the late 70's when I was told girls, under no circumstances could take shop class and a few years later when the local Vo-tech school would not admit me to their auto-body class. In both instances I was told, taking the class would be a waste of time for me and the teacher. I could make straight A's and it still wouldn't matter, no man was going to hire me to build cabinets or paint cars.
It's terribly sad, its starting to feel like my generation made no difference at all.

[Freddie]

86. I work for a regional technical HS

We have a fair number of girls in the Auto Collision, and some boys in Cosmetology. One of our mottos is "Careers Have No Gender".
Skills USA is a very highly regarded national organization; our students participate in the regional competitions and it's an honor to be chosen.

[roody]

81. Kind of like our voting system.

[Orrex]

84. Exactly, except not at all.

[perdita9]

87. A total lack of integrity by the district

Teachers are supposed to lead by example

[Hoppy]

88. The school is a gub'mint entity. She should be able to get A.C.L.U. help to sue.

[jtuck004]

89. She needs a group of women, including an attorney or 7, to help her. Everyone

is leaving her swinging, then they will complain how wrong it is.

Meanwhile she learns how not to trust a few more people, because even people who are on your side will screw you.

Smart kid. Smarter kid.

[Hekate]

91. I hope her parents have enough money to hire a lawyer, or that one will work pro bono. This reeks.

[pansypoo53219]

100. MALES are so FRAGILE. god forbid they don't win.

[Odin2005]

103. “The scores were inappropriately put in.” BULLSHIT.

You fucks didn't like the fact that a GIRL won so you decided to cook the books.

These idiots are no different mentally than a 13yo boy who throws a fit and quits in the middle of an MMO game rather than letting a girl beat him.

[Gothmog]

107. This is so very very sad

This young lady won and should be given her award

[lumberjack_jeff]

109. Jumping to conclusions based on a set of preconceptions and biases.

It is altogether possible that their explanation is accurate, that the kid who was sent to the national competion was the actual winner of the competition and both kids are victims of an unfortunate and benign scorekeeping error.
It is possible that judge(s) of the regional competition unfairly biased the results of that competition, effectively cheating the favored student, and that SkillsUSA is trying to spin it to be an innocent mistake.
It is possible that the kid who was sent to the national competition was a beneficiary of an unfair bias toward his school.
And yes, it IS possible that skillsUSA is instititutionally biased against girls. This seems unlikely, given their efforts to recruit girls into the contest.

Identity politics is not always the best lens through which to see the world. I would argue that it's almost always not.

[oberliner]

152. Great comment

It's amazing how quickly people are jumping to their preferred conclusion with minimal evidence.

[TalkingDog]

113. Amazing how that works isn't it?

And how people can completely ignore that kind of malfeasance when it suits their agenda.

[Initech]

114. I feel like there's more to this story than is being reported.

A first place contestant doesn't get disqualified just like that. There's got to be more right?

[Android3.14]

115. You misunderstood.

The subtext of this story is that she actually came in third, but somebody added the numbers wrong, and they incorrectly gave her the gold medal. Rather than take the gold medal away from her, they let her keep it. This is the actual affront to feminism and an insult to dignity, but it is a typical public school response reflecting the way we sacrifice education on the altar of self esteem.

The kid who actually(?) won also deserves, and has a responsibility, to represent his school at the national competition.

It lacks credibility that what we are seeing here is a gender issue in the way you are portraying it.

The gender issue is that they are letting her keep the gold medal because she is a girl.

[pnwmom]

117. That's not how I read her instructor's comment.

And they obviously didn't explain that to her, either.

Larry Moore, her instructor, said the scores of the top performers usually vary by only a couple of points, but Clifford’s column for the state competition was exceptional.

“She had the best plumb there,” Moore said. “Two or three corners were perfect.” Plumb refers to how straight a vertical edge is.

[Android3.14]

123. I go by the rules of the contest, which show your interpretation is incorrect.

I'm confident she did do well with the plumb. It beggars the imagination to think that SkillsUSA would base a score on a single metric. It would be like judging a piece of music on the cadence, and only the cadence.

In fact, it is so ridiculous, i looked up the rules.


http://www.franklin.kyschools.us/Downloads/Standards_15-16.pdf

Here are the standards for the contest. The part for masonry goes from page 353 to 358. You will see that a student receives a score on many aspects of masonry, and that the plumb measurement is only one part.

This is about treating a girl as if she were fragile and vacuous, which is bad in and of itself. She won by mistake, and they didn't think she had the fortitude to face it.

[pnwmom]

125. If your theory is correct, it would have been simple enough for them to explain

that to the reporter. But they didn't.

[Android3.14]

126. It sure would. So why didn't they?

Did the girl say it was because she was female?
Nope.

Did the superintendent? Did the instructor?

No. and no again.

The only thing they say is that there was a mistake in scoring.

In fact, did anyone interviewed in the article say it was because she was female? Not a single one.
A competent reporter would have asked and quoted their denial, but it isn't there, therefore the editors didn't like the answer as it failed to reinforce the angry feminist narrative, or the reporter is so incompetent he or she never asked or put the answer to such an important question in the article.

This appears to be a ginned up article acting as clickbait for gullible feminists.

[liberalla]

131. If that's the case, the least they could've done was inform Shania that the scoring was wrong and

she did not win the competition.

[Android3.14]

132. I agree. It was rude to keep her uninformed of the mistake.

[jberryhill]

128. The instructor's comment is not relevant

What were the actual judge's scores.

I would expect that her instructor would enthusiastically review her work, but that's not really germane to the question of whether the "inappropriately put in" scores refers to her score or the other student.

This would also explain the boneheaded resistance of an organization that darn well knows it could be sued, or a state educational system that could also be sued.

[pnwmom]

130. Why didn't they just explain that to the reporter then? I can see that the girl

might not have understood, but you'd think they could have cleared it up when contacted by the Dispatch.

[jberryhill]

133. A lot of news is poorly written

I can read it either way. By "the scores were inappropriately put in", is that to suggest that the scores are submitted to the national organization? Wouldn't the state organization simply identify the winner, and not submit scores of all the contestants?

I dunno. What happened to the second-place contestant as identified on the day of the competition?

Why was the second place contestant apparently passed over, and is "Sir Not Appearing In This Picture?"

If the story reads the way everyone is assuming, weren't there TWO kids screwed?

Seems odd.

[jberryhill]

135. They thought they did

From the Columbus Dispatch:

----
Brittany Halpin, a spokeswoman for the Ohio Department of Education, which sponsors the competition, said in an email, “An error was made during the entry of scores into the final score spreadsheet.”

“This error affected results for several students,” Halpin said in the email, “and resulted in the rankings showing an incorrect winner of the competition.” Halpin added that no errors were made on the judges’ scoring sheets.
-------

It was messed up of them not to inform the students, but I think the way the story is reported is influenced by the order in which the writer contacted the people involved, and that Ms. Halpin's email message is not a model of clarity.

If they cooked the scores to deny her a spot, do you think they thought that nobody would notice?

[pnwmom]

136. I think their mistake denied her a spot -- and they weren't strongly

motivated to fix the situation because she was a girl and/or because someone wanted this boy to win.

But as you say, there are different ways these reports can be interpreted and the school system isn't helping to clarify.

The fact that they didn't even bother to notify the girl tells me they hoped she wouldn't notice till it was too late to do anything -- which is what happened.

[jberryhill]

138. "The fact that they didn't even bother to notify the girl..."

What makes that a "fact"?

You infer that they "didn't even bother to notify the girl", because she had not been aware of it until seeing a post on Facebook.

Is it possible that an email was missed or a telephone call not answered? If you were them, how might you have "bothered to notify" her?

[Android3.14]

144. How do you come to that conclusion?

Their mistake almost denied the actual winner a spot. They did fix the situation, and the boy won because he actually earned a higher score.

It's okay. You just misunderstood. The journalist wrote a lousy article and other publications picked up on it without question, probably for the clickbait value. But there is no reason for you to insist she deserved the score she initially received.

Didn't we see something like this at the Miss Universe Pageant?

[jberryhill]

146. Because it's poorly written and I'm not even sure the reporter understood the situation

It's just not written clearly.

[Android3.14]

154. I think we agree, actually.

It was a crap article, and the journalist is anything but.

[DesMoinesDem]

143. You know the reporter can choose to print whatever bits of information they want, right?

You have no idea what the reporter was told. And what the reporter writes is irrelevant to what actually happened. You keep on bringing up the reporter like the are somehow relevant to the story.

[jberryhill]

147. Because the reporter did a poor job of explaining the situation

Before thinking about it more, I had the same impression.

[BobTheSubgenius]

116. "... they can do anything if they have determination, desire and drive.”

Unless, they're like...you know....a girl or something.

I hate to seem like I see everything in political terms, but does this not seem quintessentially Republican? F'ing awful.

[fob]

118. Simple. Post the judges scoresheet and

The excel spreadsheet showing the "error" and the corrected one. If they cant show the true results Shania should go.

[pnwmom]

119. Too late. The event started this week. She only found out about what happened

from somebody's FB. And then she contacted officials but it was too late. He was already there.

[liberalla]

120. I can't help but think if this gets enough attention, they will have to include her

... in the competition. They'll be shamed into it. This should be talked about on all the morning shows and on the View, and the Talk, etc.

President Obama should acknowledge her winning WAY ahead of every guy and being shafted. (He'll say it nicer, I'm sure) She should be invited to the White House. No parent of a daughter would want their daughter/s to see this and know that their skill, excellence and achievement could be so easily wiped away.

This just pisses me off.

.

[liberalla]

121. PLUS! Watch out fellas, she's coming back next year for her senior year!

[liberalla]

127. And what about the number 2 guy? He can't be happy that someone who placed after him,

was selected to represent the tech center masonry program... there should be two upset kids here.

Why even hold a competition if you know who you're going to send to national? Just announce him as this year's entrant!

[LisaL]

164. It sounds like the third place winner actually placed first, if the scores were correctly entered.

So the actual winner has a cause to be upset as well, since he wasn't announced as the winner.

[Ilsa]

122. I hope ohio loses the national competition with shame. NT

[liberalla]

124. +1000

[oberliner]

129. Students compete on an individual basis

So I am not sure who exactly you are hoping loses with shame and why.

[jberryhill]

148. It's the way the headline is written

The headline conveys the impression she had won.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

157. So what was the deal with the second place finisher?

What's their gender? How did they also get passed over too?

Or does that not fit the narrative and also demonstrate someone fucked up on the actual scoring of the original project? Who's this all powerful third place finisher, Kasich's nephew?

[oberliner]

159. Here's the full statement from the Ohio Dept. of Education

Haplin said actions are being taken to improve the scoring process. Below is her full statement, on behalf of SkillsUSA, to WSAZ:

"During the 2016 SkillsUSA Ohio masonry competition, student scores were entered into score sheets by judges. Those scores were then entered into a spreadsheet manually to calculate final scores. When student scores were entered into the final score spreadsheet, an error was made and some scores were inadvertently duplicated, causing some students to receive double the score that they actually received. This error affected results for several students and resulted in the rankings showing an incorrect winner of the competition.

"No errors were made in the judges' score sheets themselves, and the final corrected scores reflect the scores on the individual score sheets for each student. Upon discovery of the error through the regular review process, the duplicate scores were removed to show the actual winner of the competition. SkillsUSA confirmed that Ohio has followed all policies pertaining to the resolution of errors.

"The student who should have been awarded the gold medal at the competition will be the one to represent Ohio as the national competitor. The student who was incorrectly named the winner at the state competition is still invited to attend and observe the national competition. Corrective actions are being taken to improve the scoring process.

"Regarding the way the student was informed of the error, the Ohio Department of Education's policy is to communicate with each student's school district, rather than with the students themselves. As soon as the error was discovered, administrators from all affected students' school districts were contacted."

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Teen-girl-from-Scioto-County-bumped-from-national-masonry-competition-383877471.html

Incidentally, from that same article:

Larry Moore, Clifford's instructor at the technical center, says this is not the first time SkillsUSA has taken a title away from one of his students. He says in 2010, the same thing happened to another junior student of his, a boy. He says about two weeks after the boy won the state competition, his title was also taken away because of a scoring error.