General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBefore European Christians Forced Gender Roles, Native Americans Acknowledged 5 Genders
Felt this might be appropriate to GD in light of the Orlando tragedy and the reprehensible reactions of some evangelical pastors toward the LGBTQ community.
http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/06/19/before-european-christians-forced-gender-roles-native-americans-acknowledged-5-genders/
It wasnt until Europeans took over North America that natives adopted the ideas of gender roles. For Native Americans, there was no set of rules that men and women had to abide by in order to be considered a normal member of their tribe.
In fact, people who had both female and male characteristics were viewed as gifted by nature, and therefore, able to see both sides of everything. According to Indian Country Today, all native communities acknowledged the following gender roles: Female, male, Two Spirit female, Two Spirit male and Transgendered.
Each tribe has their own specific term, but there was a need for a universal term that the general population could understand. The Navajo refer to Two Spirits as Nádleehí (one who is transformed), among the Lakota is Winkté (indicative of a male who has a compulsion to behave as a female), Niizh Manidoowag (two spirit) in Ojibwe, Hemaneh (half man, half woman) in Cheyenne, to name a few. As the purpose of Two Spirit is to be used as a universal term in the English language, it is not always translatable with the same meaning in Native languages. For example, in the Iroquois Cherokee language, there is no way to translate the term, but the Cherokee do have gender variance terms for women who feel like men and vice versa.
The Two Spirit culture of Native Americans was one of the first things that Europeans worked to destroy and cover up. According to Brits like George Catlin, the Two Spirit tradition had to be eradicated before it could go into history books. Catlin said the tradition:
/snip
niyad
(113,262 posts)Photographer
(1,142 posts)You're welcome.
niyad
(113,262 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)Very interesting...and sad too. Somehow, I feel better for knowing this. I guess it's another way to look at the human spirit. Namaste.
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)OMG so bigoted! Come on Native Americans!
LWolf
(46,179 posts)or authoritarian demand for compliance with a narrow code?
Rhetorical question, of course.
The reality is that the European/xtian view of strict gender roles is deeply embedded in our culture these centuries later. As a woman, I've always seen it as a determination to support patriarchy; to maintain male dominance over female.
I don't know how accurate this article is. I do know that our country, and the world, would be better for letting go of gender bias, gender roles, and hatred.
yellerpup
(12,253 posts)The men who felt like women were very welcome to help with the women's work of farming partly due to their upper body strength, taller stature, and sometimes creativity. Women who felt like men were appreciated if they were good at hunting or attracting game, or were fast runners, or showed steadfast courage in battle. We always were most democratic of people.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Most educated people understand and accept this. But conservative people want to see everything in black and white, exact opposites, no ambiguity. Life for them is either safe or dangerous.
Irrefutable positions are safe, they've been taught how to react.
Nuance scares and frustrates them. They have to think too hard. They aren't comfortable with obscure or imprecise answers.
It's why conservatives tend to, not only be religious, but also be more rigid in their religious beliefs...often literal translation of the Bible (but boy can that be confusing, so they go with what their church tells them to believe). Their god is responsible for everything, taking them off the hook for all those things they'd have to make decisions about on their own.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I was raised without church; attended for a bit in high school, when some new friends were shocked, and did their best to "save" me. It didn't stick; what you point out and more became immediately obvious.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)They become increasingly violent in order to keep their narrow constructs "pure and unaltered". They will do it to the point of outright genocide. That has been proven over and over again through human history.
underpants
(182,772 posts)maindawg
(1,151 posts)When Lewis and Clark journey camped with the Blackfoot and Hidatsa tribes their very first winter they wrote in their journals that there were braves who lived as squaws , with another brave , dressed and carried the role and that was considered normal as no one objected. The native Americans attitude concerning sex was very casual. They considered sex a natural thing you did. There were no rules. They did not have a word for prostitution and traded for sex all the time.
Maybe we should them , and concentrate on things that matter. Things we can control. Instead of some rules based on shadowy notions and silly superstitions.
geardaddy
(24,926 posts)Sorry, I get your point and agree, but those terms are offensive.
AllyCat
(16,177 posts)MisterFred
(525 posts)The article writes of Native Americans as if they're one culture, not many. The traditions of one tribe often had little to do with another, especially across language groups. Even within language groups, Aztecs did not share much common culture with Utes...
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)mopinko
(70,081 posts)took a history of ceramics class, which looked at a different culture for each class.
the lecture on native americans featured a man who lived as a woman. ze was a most revered potter. i believe the person was hopi, or anasazi.
there are pictures extant of this person and their work. very nice work, too.
the point that was made was that ze had the best of both worlds. ze lived w the women, did women's work, but without the burden of children, ze was free to spend time perfecting their craft.
yes, wouldnt it be nice to live in a world where you could be who you are, and have sex if you wanted to, with whom you wanted to, or just not.
Aristus
(66,316 posts)He was teased as a child because he couldn't or wouldn't hunt. Then he grew up to be respected by his tribe as a talented singer and dancer, both of which are important religious gifts in First Nations tribes.
Bob Loblaw
(1,900 posts)the rabbits you didn't catch to Buffalo Wallow Woman."
Little Horse
Bob Loblaw
(1,900 posts)Hemoneh, for which there ain't no English word. And he was a good'un."
Jack Crabbe
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The author even misrepresents that information from the "Indian Country Today" website, which is apparently the extent of his knowledge on the subject (along with, perhaps, a google search).
Native Americans must love white people who think they can explain their culture.
Photographer
(1,142 posts)There is a lot of information available on the subject and if this piece causes some to research it more, then, IMHO, the article has met its objective.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)But the lead, that Native Americans acknowledged five genders, is not actually true.
The Indian Country Today article outlines the diversity of perspectives among various Native American groups in this regard.
There is no actual evidence provided that all Native American groups did, in fact, "acknowledge five genders".
Photographer
(1,142 posts)You might find this interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit
oberliner
(58,724 posts)From the article:
This sentence is not true (in particular the bolded section), and the article in Indian Country Today does not make such a claim.
I do find it interesting to learn more about gender with respect to various Native American communities both historically and in modern times. I just don't think this particular article presents the information entirely accurately.
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz
This book should be in every class room, in my opinion.
I would really like to meet this woman
AllyCat
(16,177 posts)turbinetree
(24,695 posts)Ortiz is just amazing------------------a small tidbit-------------
http://www.beacon.org/An-Indigenous-Peoples-History-of-the-United-States-P1164.aspx
Honk--------------------for a political revolution
niyad
(113,262 posts)I was astounded that the system in this oh-so-red county actually had it.
Just a note--it is an extremely difficult read--the subject matter, I mean. As much as people think they know about the genocide perpetrated on the indigenous peoples, it doesn't even come close to the reality.
niyad
(113,262 posts)truth about the european invaders in this hemisphere (the role of the church is just one example.)
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)the church tries to distort what, why and how they were not complicit in this regard.
niyad
(113,262 posts)the mayan records and information, because, of course, nothing could contradict the church. just imagine the knowledge that was lost. much like the library at alexandria (yes, I know, the church wasn't responsible for that one)
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)I had forgotten about the corporal punishment that the Eastern churches did to the Indigenous people, especially when the children from the tribe went back to there home on the reservations, they brought that corporal punishment back with them, and they started hitting there children, because in the Indigenous peoples philosophy they / we never hit there / our children
And the best example of this society failure in my opinion, all one as to do is look at the Pine Ridge Reservation---------------this reservation speaks volumes on what and how this country treats the Indigenous people and how it is reflected out toward the current society we live in----------------there is a link, in my opinion
geardaddy
(24,926 posts)I'm putting this on my reading list.
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)Various times accepting it and other times oppressing it. As Clark and Sponsler describe it "The Two Gender System in Medieval Europe" is a modern fiction.
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)File under, I do learn something new every day.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)has something similar. I remember coming across this at one time, and thanks for reminding me of it! Mahalo!
niyad
(113,262 posts)(some useful resource links at bottom)
Two-Spirit
"Berdache" redirects here. For the glaive polearm, see Bardiche.
Two-spirited marchers at San Francisco Pride 2014.
Two-Spirit (also two spirit or twospirit) is a modern umbrella term used by some indigenous North Americans to describe gender-variant individuals in their communities.[1] The term was adopted in 1990 at an Indigenous lesbian and gay international gathering to encourage the replacement of the anthropological term berdache.[2] It is a spiritual role that is recognized and confirmed by the Two-Spirit's indigenous community.[3] While some have found the term a useful tool for intertribal organizing, not all Native cultures conceptualize gender this way, and most tribes use names in their own languages.[2][4] While pan-Indian terms are not always appropriate or welcome, the term has generally received more acceptance and use than the term it replaced.[2]
Third and fourth gender roles traditionally embodied by two-spirit people include performing work and wearing clothing associated with both men and women. Not all tribes/nations have rigid gender roles, but, among those that do, some consider there to be at least four genders: feminine woman, masculine woman, feminine man, masculine man.[3] The presence of male-bodied two-spirits "was a fundamental institution among most tribal peoples"[5] and, according to Will Roscoe, both male- and female-bodied two-spirits have been documented "in over 130 North American tribes, in every region of the continent."[6]
Before the late twentieth-century, non-Native (i.e. non-Native American/Canadian) anthropologists used the generic term berdache /bərˈdæʃ/ to identify an indigenous individual fulfilling one of many mixed gender roles in their tribe, but that term has now fallen out of favor. Anthropologists primarily used it to identify feminine Native men. Its etymology, however, has meant that it is now considered outdated and potentially offensive: it derives from the French bardache (English equivalent: "bardash" meaning "passive homosexual", "catamite"[7] or even "male prostitute". Bardache, in turn, derived from the Persian برده barda meaning "captive", "prisoner of war", "slave".[8][9][10][11] Spanish explorers who encountered two-spirits among the Chumash people called them "joyas", the Spanish for "jewels".[12]
Use of berdache has generally been replaced by the self-chosen "two-spirit", which, in 1990, gained widespread popularity during the third annual intertribal Native American/First Nations gay and lesbian conference in Winnipeg.[13] Two-spirit is a pan-Indian term chosen to express the Native/First Nations' distinct approach to gender identity and variance in contrast to the imposed non-Native terms of berdache, "gay", "lesbian", and "trans"
. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit
http://www.dancingtoeaglespiritsociety.org/twospirit.php
http://www.nativepeoples.com/Native-Peoples/May-June-2014/Two-Spirit-The-Story-of-a-Movement-Unfolds/
http://nativeout.com/twospirit-rc/two-spirit-101/
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/two-spirits/
http://twospirits.org/