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I think the new rules will have unintended consequences... (Original Post) kentuck Jun 2016 OP
I think you're right. So far, so good, kentuck. eom BlueCaliDem Jun 2016 #1
Not only are you correct SCantiGOP Jun 2016 #53
I don't think you'll see many alerts at all yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #109
I don't know about that. Yesterday, I participated on no less than three juries. BlueCaliDem Jun 2016 #111
Are you kidding? whopis01 Jun 2016 #123
Lol. I have been on 3 but have no idea what became of them yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #124
Really? ProfessorGAC Jun 2016 #125
So have I Coolest Ranger Jun 2016 #133
I think you are correct, kentuck. sheshe2 Jun 2016 #2
Alerted! Crunchy Frog Jun 2016 #3
I like the new system. Rex Jun 2016 #4
So what's the new system, I have had time to pay attention. lonestarnot Jun 2016 #77
Pledge twice turn to the left and roll a 20d Rex Jun 2016 #80
You're begging for it mister. seabeckind Jun 2016 #96
Principal's office should be a tip off, but you never know. merrily Jun 2016 #103
Principal Skinner's office? HubertHeaver Jun 2016 #126
shrimp and peanut battle puffy socks Jun 2016 #128
Ha! Amaril Jun 2016 #132
Holy crap! I don't believe in spanking! lonestarnot Jun 2016 #108
It may also discourage debate. seabeckind Jun 2016 #5
there's always Discussionist for those who favor everything goes nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #10
Ah, actually everything doesn't go. seabeckind Jun 2016 #12
I hate that phrase ("Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger...") Moonwalk Jun 2016 #31
Well said!! missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #36
Actually I see it as totally the opposite seabeckind Jun 2016 #48
It's not a phrase. It's a quote from Nietzsche. REP Jun 2016 #50
I did the google machine and Nietzsche was just having us on seabeckind Jun 2016 #59
Yeah, best not to quote Nietzsche when you haven't read him. REP Jun 2016 #60
Didn't know I was. My bad. seabeckind Jun 2016 #63
What is DI? AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #70
It's a web site called Discussionist. lovemydog Jun 2016 #83
Oh ok. I know discussionist. I just didn't realize DI was short for that. Thank you AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #88
Actually DI is not everything goes, the cons over there are as thin skinned as Trump. nt Rex Jun 2016 #18
This site isn't for "opposing sides". You can always do that on some other website. Lil Missy Jun 2016 #26
Agree!!! K&R!!! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2016 #43
You don't welcome constructive advice? seabeckind Jun 2016 #49
There are plenty of other sites that will fill your need. trumad Jun 2016 #90
Yeah but I like this one. seabeckind Jun 2016 #92
Well then quit moaning about how the place is set up. trumad Jun 2016 #94
Oops, mother in law hand seabeckind Jun 2016 #97
So it's a cheer leading site? ozone_man Jun 2016 #51
Perhaps you need to reread the new ToS. I'll help you with a link. BlueCaliDem Jun 2016 #57
Which one also had to agree to before posting after the update was made. TwilightZone Jun 2016 #58
That's 100% true, TZ. eom BlueCaliDem Jun 2016 #64
It's a fine line. ozone_man Jun 2016 #62
Some of it comes across as unfair. seabeckind Jun 2016 #93
It is getting us back to the purpose The Green Manalishi Jun 2016 #134
There are other sites you can go to with less optimism for Hillary leftofcool Jun 2016 #116
lolololol obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #38
I hear you, seabeckind. PoliticalMalcontent Jun 2016 #46
I've noticed that we need to be more careful of the eggshells. seabeckind Jun 2016 #55
Resistance is futile. ozone_man Jun 2016 #66
What I have found is that you talk about most anything. It's really HOW you say it. AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #74
This. Got a warning for saying I agree with Bernie on superdelegates scscholar Jun 2016 #65
What is a "warning"? JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2016 #86
It's not a formal process seabeckind Jun 2016 #91
It won't discourage debate because the button pusher is as much on trail.... Moonwalk Jun 2016 #68
Some percentage of the DU population isn't here for debate or new information... TipTok Jun 2016 #84
If debate can be civil, it should be welcomed anywhere liberal N proud Jun 2016 #102
Agree. seabeckind Jun 2016 #104
do you have a twin? snooper2 Jun 2016 #110
That's my biggest complaint too Victor_c3 Jun 2016 #112
more likely intended, rather than unintended. virtualobserver Jun 2016 #6
On which note, is it me, or are jury results not reported back to jurors anymore? villager Jun 2016 #7
Yup.... sheshe2 Jun 2016 #8
Huh. Any thought on why? villager Jun 2016 #9
The Admins think that the result notices are disruptive and drama-creating petronius Jun 2016 #11
Thanks. So I guess people with 0-7 verdicts "agin' 'em," who get the time outs... villager Jun 2016 #16
Ive posted jury results before awoke_in_2003 Jun 2016 #22
Shoot wryter2000 Jun 2016 #24
I think that would be very hard to do since you don't kno what forum/group it was posted in, nor hlthe2b Jun 2016 #29
Actually quite easy to track unc70 Jun 2016 #45
I'd also like to see where I came out LiberalLovinLug Jun 2016 #44
I suspect the issue is that sometimes a juror response was far more ugly than the post in question. HuckleB Jun 2016 #129
Yes, there are workarounds, but especially with these more fine-tuned iterations of voting.... villager Jun 2016 #136
I liked seeing the results, too, so I miss that. nt babylonsister Jun 2016 #56
Me too zipplewrath Jun 2016 #118
Me Three, Sis! ProfessorGAC Jun 2016 #127
Because people kept posting the results leading to more meta discussion? n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #13
True. There was a lot of "I was Juror #3!" posting going on... villager Jun 2016 #14
The why is in an ATA thread Yonnie3 Jun 2016 #21
One feature that I think might help seabeckind Jun 2016 #15
Interesting. A "re-think/cool-down" clause, eh? villager Jun 2016 #17
No I hadn't seabeckind Jun 2016 #19
I gave it a shot. seabeckind Jun 2016 #25
When they transitioned from DU2 to early DU3 BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #41
I think I had read that yes, that is the case Wednesdays Jun 2016 #32
I would like to know what we're supposed to do babylonsister Jun 2016 #135
There is a huge opening for Trump concern trolls though. Kingofalldems Jun 2016 #20
Some folks have their sensitivity turned to 11... TipTok Jun 2016 #85
Just voicing my opinion on Trump trolls. Kingofalldems Jun 2016 #99
That's not very friendly... TipTok Jun 2016 #100
You seem upset and touchy about something Kingofalldems Jun 2016 #101
A part of your response could be taken differently. seabeckind Jun 2016 #105
Of course the original response to me wasn't, I guess. Kingofalldems Jun 2016 #106
I'll leave it at that. n/t seabeckind Jun 2016 #107
Remember that bit about high sensitivity? TipTok Jun 2016 #114
This message was self-deleted by its author TipTok Jun 2016 #113
Yup wryter2000 Jun 2016 #23
I hope so. Duval Jun 2016 #27
You're just seeing that now? Cary Jun 2016 #28
I still say we should have the right to complain about Dem politicians without worry that vkkv Jun 2016 #30
Most Republican trolls that come here don't promote Republicans either. Their aim... Moonwalk Jun 2016 #34
Well, tbh, there were a lot of recent posts Wednesdays Jun 2016 #35
Really? "a lot of rerecent posts"?? I'm here all of the time since I work out of my house and I have vkkv Jun 2016 #37
We'll see after the general zipplewrath Jun 2016 #119
Lots of new members join the morning after a mass shooting IronLionZion Jun 2016 #33
Ahem... Bashing anonymous members... vkkv Jun 2016 #39
Good! IronLionZion Jun 2016 #40
Maybe. They may also turn DU into an echo chamber where important truths are muzzled because Gene Debs Jun 2016 #42
There are other sites to post on. sheshe2 Jun 2016 #82
That's a given zipplewrath Jun 2016 #120
It"s Too Bad That We Weren't Able To Get Rid Of Those Trolls.... global1 Jun 2016 #47
I am pretty tired of the bullies who answer your comment demigoddess Jun 2016 #52
i disagree SoLeftIAmRight Jun 2016 #75
Alert junkies seem to be working overtime Warpy Jun 2016 #54
Nope they're still here. nt retrowire Jun 2016 #61
I agree PowerToThePeople Jun 2016 #69
.. Liberal_in_LA Jun 2016 #67
so how about un-banning those banned from the Hillary Clinton group? RussBLib Jun 2016 #71
And the trolls who came here to divide Democrats against each applegrove Jun 2016 #72
There is one section that I disagree with... kentuck Jun 2016 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author shanti Jun 2016 #78
Right, so I am not allowed to say a la izquierda Jun 2016 #89
I applaud the new rules. They will effectively kill the martyrdom drama jack_krass Jun 2016 #76
I think they should make one small modification with the jury notification. kentuck Jun 2016 #79
Remember how many jury notifications were being re-posted verbatim in threads? emulatorloo Jun 2016 #81
So, make a rule against it pintobean Jun 2016 #87
I now receive a slightly higher percentage each time someone reads one of my posts Orrex Jun 2016 #95
Your painting "Museum for the Blind" is brilliant. Kurovski Jun 2016 #117
Yes, it is indeed quite brilliant! Orrex Jun 2016 #121
I hope it got rid of all the pro-Putin and pro-China shills. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #98
Yeah... disillusioned73 Jun 2016 #115
And? MynameisBlarney Jun 2016 #122
One change I would like is........... mrmpa Jun 2016 #130
Too many rules maindawg Jun 2016 #131

SCantiGOP

(13,869 posts)
53. Not only are you correct
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:41 PM
Jun 2016

I assumed that was a major reason for the policy.
I have no question some of the posters here the past few months were paid, perhaps by Trump/GOP, or were free-lancers who got their kicks by disrupting the "demonrats".

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
124. Lol. I have been on 3 but have no idea what became of them
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 02:01 PM
Jun 2016

How long is it til I say eh...ill take the next jury.

ProfessorGAC

(65,000 posts)
125. Really?
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 02:06 PM
Jun 2016

I've been on dozens, probably hundreds, but only 1 each day the last two days. That's uncharacteristically low for me. If i spend more than a couple hours here, i'll be on 2 a day.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
80. Pledge twice turn to the left and roll a 20d
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 01:03 AM
Jun 2016

A 1 means you fumbled and must be spanked by the board of righteousness.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
96. You're begging for it mister.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 08:05 AM
Jun 2016

One more outburst like that and you're heading for the principal's office!!!

Lord, what smiley do I use to show this was a joke?????

Otherwise....

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
5. It may also discourage debate.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:23 PM
Jun 2016

No one should fear a devil's advocate.

If the argument is so weak and the poster cannot handle that opposition, perhaps the failing lies in the poster.

And with a lucky coin flip, an effective course of action might be lost.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
12. Ah, actually everything doesn't go.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:36 PM
Jun 2016

Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I learn a lot on DI. Trends in the RWNJ, argument techniques of the fringe. Able to defend against really ruthless vile comments. I have never alerted there. Never felt the need to.

Tho a bit rough and tumble it's not a bad thing.

It's really hard to know what the enemy is up to if you hide behind a wall. (general you, no personal intent)

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
31. I hate that phrase ("Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger...")
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:35 PM
Jun 2016

...It always strikes me as the logic of a bully: "These awful things I'm doing to you will make you stronger; so my cruelty is actually a favor. You're welcome."

I mean, if you really think about it, what doesn't kill you can leave you crippled, insane, broken, damaged, paranoid, shattered, or a shadow of your former self. It can also make you vengeful, hateful, cruel and bitter. None of which sound "stronger" to me. And a lot of which apply to those who've been driven off DI by those ruthless, vile comments. Unless, of course, your view is that all those run-off people were "killed." In which case...how many people do we allowed to be killed so that those that remain will be "stronger"? I kinda think the forum wants to make sure democrats feel welcome and able to discuss politics peacefully, and so have plenty of members...rather than making them feel like they've entered into the hunger games.

And I kinda think democrats that want to "strengthen" their ability to deal with vile comments and hunger game antics will have plenty of chances to do that on forums where they're arguing with republicans. They hardly need to get more of it here.

I'll posit you an alternative quote:
"The measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members."

I would hope democrats would try to create a most civilized place to discuss politics. If not for its own sake, then in the hopes that it might spread out to the wider world and, maybe, weaken the trolls rather than requiring that the weak become trolls to survive.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
48. Actually I see it as totally the opposite
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:29 PM
Jun 2016

You seem to feel like it is sucking up and being subservient.

I see it as standing up to that bully and being bruised and beaten and emerging a stronger person and ready to deal with even more adversity next time.

The other part of your comment seems to indicate that you need a shield of some sort when on this site. That a protection is needed.

If you feel that way I'm afraid there's nothing I can say. If that isn't your meaning I'm afraid I misunderstood your words.

I feel like if someone has a strong argument they should be able to deal with opposition. On their own, using their own wits, using their own logic.

I have never alerted on anything except for one occasion on DI when the person spewed the most vile insults I've ever seen on the forum. There was just no way to respond. (I might add that I wasn't involved in that exchange)

I usually have tried to respond to a vile comment trying not to be vile but still dealing with it. In the most extreme of situations when it seemed like I was trying to reason with the unreasonable I hit the ignore button and walked away. I think I have fewer than 10 people on ignore.

I also believe that my pain threshold might be a bit higher. Most likely a result of life experiences. No matter.

Enjoy your evening. I'll lurk a bit more after logging off. I think we've reached an equilibrium.

Peace.

REP

(21,691 posts)
50. It's not a phrase. It's a quote from Nietzsche.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:39 PM
Jun 2016

"From life's school of war: what does not kill me makes me stronger" is a quote from Twilight of the Idols, or, How to Philosophize with a Hammer (Götzen-Dämmerung, oder, Wie man mit dem Hammer philosophir)

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
59. I did the google machine and Nietzsche was just having us on
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:58 PM
Jun 2016

That my take on it was wrong. A source said:

He's really making fun of the statement. And in typical Nietzschean style, he attempts to refute it using snarky, obscure jabs rather than nuanced or rigorous analytical analysis. He evokes images of hardships that are almost nearly fatal, from the physical to the emotional, to show how ludicrous it is to claim that repeatedly adversity could ever be a source of strength. In fact, people who are repeatedly confronted with such hardships tend to become depressed, unproductive, and even suicidal.

In pointing out its ironic falsity, Nietzsche also makes the point that the statement is quite useful for controlling others: convincing them to be strong and push through difficult situations, cajoling them into giving up their own lives for the larger cause of their country ("the military school of life&quot , etc.

http://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/149/was-nietzsche-making-fun-of-the-military-mindset-when-he-said-that-which-does-n


So we're into that usual bs ambiguous philosophical stuff.

Depends on situation. But I wasn't talking as much about strength as abstract learning to deal with different situations.

Ok, I won't use it anymore as a quick label. Too much nuance.

Thanks (I think)

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
63. Didn't know I was. My bad.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 09:06 PM
Jun 2016

Problem is that I get to wandering off looking for the basis for stuff and then forget why I went there.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
83. It's a web site called Discussionist.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 03:40 AM
Jun 2016
http://www.discussionist.com

It was started by the owners of democratic underground as a place where democrats and republicans can talk.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
49. You don't welcome constructive advice?
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:36 PM
Jun 2016

Isn't there a strong tendency that the discussions will become all saccharine? That the site becomes just an echo chamber?

I've always found it helpful after a rousing debate to do a retrospection and on occasion find that I might have missed a different way to interpret a situation.

You don't find that a helpful learning experience?

 

trumad

(41,692 posts)
94. Well then quit moaning about how the place is set up.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 08:03 AM
Jun 2016

You want to engage morans, go find a place that let's you.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
57. Perhaps you need to reread the new ToS. I'll help you with a link.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:48 PM
Jun 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

All you had to do was click on "Announcements" to your left and it would take you to the latest announcement by the Admins, Welcome to General Election 2016, and you can read what is and what isn't allowed - with links for more clarification.

So no. No "cheerleading".

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
62. It's a fine line.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 09:04 PM
Jun 2016

Mostly cheer leading, some honest discussion. We knew it was coming, but it's still depressing that it has arrived.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
93. Some of it comes across as unfair.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 08:01 AM
Jun 2016

Before the change bashing for bashing sake seemed to be acceptable or at least a blind eye.

Now suggesting that an bias is implied is met with a reverse attack of some sort. A response to that, no matter how carefully worded is sometimes alerted.

Catch the wrong jury and your continued input, no matter how useful, is lost forever.

OTOH, I've seen historical instances in real life where that was a good thing. Sometimes forcing the rebel out of the rigid work environment started a whole new industry.

The Green Manalishi

(1,054 posts)
134. It is getting us back to the purpose
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 04:16 PM
Jun 2016

Which is to strengthen the position of the Democratic party and Democratic politicians and policies.

Seems pretty clear to me- posts or people who attack our candidates are not welcome, period.

Posts or people who attack other DU members (rather than the argument) are not welcome.

It's all about getting Secretary Clinton elected POTUS and getting justices on the Supreme Court who will work for progressive ends. That and electing as many Democrats to the congress and state offices as possible. Anyone not down with those objectives should *NOT* be made to feel welcome here.

There are plenty of places to debate more general ideas and policies, and I enjoy doing so in those contexts, for there are things propounded by some Democrats with which strongly disagree. And there are places within DU to debate which policy *is* the more progressive, or which will help the progressive cause (Guns, Israel/Palestine, etc).

But, while I strongly supported Bernie, as far as I am concerned anyone or anything that attacks Sec Clinton increases the likelihood of President Trump, and thus has no place here.


I might be wrong, but I bet I'm not in this case.

Plenty of places to look for the 'Truth', I'm here to figure out how to fight the Republican agenda and network with like minded people.


Respectfully,
Dan

46. I hear you, seabeckind.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:16 PM
Jun 2016

Last edited Tue Jun 21, 2016, 09:52 PM - Edit history (1)

People here seem to think in the black and white while the world exists in so many shades of grey.

I haven't been partaking in discussion anymore because what's the point? People demonize you here for having opinions slightly outside of the echo chamber... I find that disappointing and not helpful to democracy or many other aspects of our world.

It's made me question whether I want to be here or not. This is my first internet forum... I've shunned social media networks and forums because it reminds me of just how terrible the world is (also, I'm not exactly teeming with friends). People will probably criticize me for that, but it's true. Have you seeeeeen how many times the same jokes slamming republicans get passed around here? Aren't there enough legitimate reasons to slam republicans (and really all politicians to some degree) without falling back on the same tired tropes repeatedly?

Trump is a damn phony and the fact that so many people support him (not here obviously) tells you about all you need to know about society right now.

Anyway... I'm going to have to take some time to think about what I contribute to these forums, or perhaps more importantly, what I am allowed to contribute to these forums. I feel like my talents might be wasted here, even if I agree with most all of you politically a vast majority of the time.

Thank you for bringing up this point though, seabeckind. A sincere +1.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
55. I've noticed that we need to be more careful of the eggshells.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:45 PM
Jun 2016

I just pretty much ignore the Trump is a poopyhead threads. Yeah, I got it the first 2000 times. I'm most definitely not going to vote for him.

It's a lot like it was in 2008. Maybe a little more brutal but still a good learning experience.

Sure beats the hel out of many of the other sites. By a long, long shot.

I would like to see a little less spillover from the election thread to the general thread but it's something I can deal with.

There's lots of great stuff here. The news feed part is great as are the good reads.

Hang on. It'll settle out.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
66. Resistance is futile.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 09:47 PM
Jun 2016

Here anyway. Nevertheless, one can toe the line and survive. Will the limited discussion open any closed minds? Probably not. It becomes an echo chamber. That is GE.

AgadorSparticus

(7,963 posts)
74. What I have found is that you talk about most anything. It's really HOW you say it.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:25 AM
Jun 2016

Unfortunately, what I have seen here has been ridiculous. It is not the norm and I hope you don't think it was. People are worried about echo chambers but the irony is that in the constant bickering, it became an echo chamber of the SAME arguments over and over and over. Sprinkle in some hostility and it was just toxic. Nothing good came out of out. I, for one, have been looking forward to this new forum. And it is proving to be exactly what DU needs.

 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
65. This. Got a warning for saying I agree with Bernie on superdelegates
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 09:28 PM
Jun 2016

What's wrong with that? We shouldn't be afraid to talk about serious issues.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
91. It's not a formal process
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 07:51 AM
Jun 2016

just a posting from someone who suggests you're over the line and quotes or sends you the rules.

It's a lot like someone in your neighborhood association telling you you shouldn't have left your car in the driveway

and then attaches a copy of the bylaws.

In the case of the forum you can try to explain yourself but you're taking a big, big chance. Best to just shake your head and walk away. IOW, the wrong choice of words on your part was upsetting to someone.

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
68. It won't discourage debate because the button pusher is as much on trail....
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 10:30 PM
Jun 2016

..as the person they push the button on. I just did this jury duty. The jury to judges not only the "offensive" comment, but the person who was offended. And they are offers several choices in each judgement.

So. You say something to me and I'm offended. I push the button on you. Hah-hah! I think. I've erased this offensive thing! But not so fast! The choices that a jury gets don't just include "is it offensive or not?" But also "is it deliberately offensive?" The Jury might find your comment offensive, but might realize that you didn't mean it the way. They may recognize that you were just going your way in the debate. And, of course, they might also say, "Nope. Not offensive, don't remove."

AND THEN...whatever the jury decides, I (the person to sent the post to trail) gets put on trail, too. The jury gets asked whether I was justified in asking for a jury to check this post out. AND whether the jury thinks I was really offended, or whether I was trying to cause trouble.

In short, was I trying to discourage debate? So, your fear that this is going to create a situation where "delicate flowers" are going to be pushing the alert button at every turn, and that fear of this will discourage debate doesn't seem likely. Because the person who pushes that alert button might have it come back and bite them. Once people learn this, they'll know that they shouldn't push the alert button unless they really, really think this or that post is going beyond the pale. They'd better be sure the jury will not only see it their way, but see them as justified for pointing it out. Otherwise, they may be the one judged as the troublemaker.

 

TipTok

(2,474 posts)
84. Some percentage of the DU population isn't here for debate or new information...
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 05:44 AM
Jun 2016

They are just here to have their existing opinions reinforced.

It used to be a larger group with wider topics and under the new rules it has shrunk considerably.

liberal N proud

(60,334 posts)
102. If debate can be civil, it should be welcomed anywhere
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 09:10 AM
Jun 2016

If I can discuss something with another without throwing barbs at one another, then the debate is not only healthy but should be welcomed.

I don't think the new rules have to discourage debate, just reminds everyone that we need to be civil in our discussions.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
104. Agree.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 09:20 AM
Jun 2016

Sometimes in the heat of the moment someone might do a poor choice of words that is taken literally.

And then never gets a chance to explain.

Civil is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
112. That's my biggest complaint too
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 10:00 AM
Jun 2016

If you use the word "corporate" in any discussion it is obvious that you are referring to a certain candidate and the post risk being hidden.

The same thing goes with anti-war.

I've been having a hard time dancing around those terms and not discussing them. They are two things that I'm not willing to bend or flex on.

I'm not trying to be passive aggressive here, but I believe this post I just wrote even risks being hidden.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
7. On which note, is it me, or are jury results not reported back to jurors anymore?
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:26 PM
Jun 2016

I've been on three juries in this "new era" so far, and while I like the anonymity of it, I've never heard back on what any of the results were.

Is that a new feature, too?

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
9. Huh. Any thought on why?
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jun 2016

..since I haven't seen, or clearly missed, that aspect/explanation of the "new rules?"

petronius

(26,602 posts)
11. The Admins think that the result notices are disruptive and drama-creating
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:35 PM
Jun 2016

They want jurors to move on and forget about it after voting:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910796

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
16. Thanks. So I guess people with 0-7 verdicts "agin' 'em," who get the time outs...
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:41 PM
Jun 2016

...are notified through PMs, then, at least.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
22. Ive posted jury results before
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:50 PM
Jun 2016

granted, they were on ridiculous alerts. That being said, it is probably best to not be able to do it.

wryter2000

(46,037 posts)
24. Shoot
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:53 PM
Jun 2016

I like to know if I'm in agreement with other DUers. I'd be happy to go to the thread and see if the post is still there, but I often lose track of it and can't go back to check.

hlthe2b

(102,228 posts)
29. I think that would be very hard to do since you don't kno what forum/group it was posted in, nor
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:19 PM
Jun 2016

who made the posting or the person to whom they were responding.

unc70

(6,110 posts)
45. Actually quite easy to track
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:09 PM
Jun 2016

In most cases, you can look at the thread before the last juror finishes. You can also use Google and look at the cache.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,173 posts)
44. I'd also like to see where I came out
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:07 PM
Jun 2016

I was also curious about what other jurors may have written, which is now, sadly, not a part of the process.

But at the very least I'd like a quick message back on what the verdict was and the count.


BTW....just between you and me....I was on one jury case since the revamp. What I did was make sure I copied a key phrase in the OP. Then later on, I did a site search for that phrase to find the thread and post. (It was still there, which supported my vote)

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
129. I suspect the issue is that sometimes a juror response was far more ugly than the post in question.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 03:30 PM
Jun 2016

It became quite surreal.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
136. Yes, there are workarounds, but especially with these more fine-tuned iterations of voting....
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 05:36 PM
Jun 2016

...such as "really deep shit," "hardly shitty at all," etc. (yes, yes, I jibe, josh and paraphrase... ), I'd like to see how the tallies go.

Also, if something just "barely" doesn't pass muster, is the penalty really the same as something which is -- to use a misapplied term from the recent NBA Finals -- a "flagrant foul?"

ProfessorGAC

(65,000 posts)
127. Me Three, Sis!
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 02:23 PM
Jun 2016

I like the streamlining of the process, but i'd still like to know the results. Even if it's just "you voted x and the rest of the jurors did whatever?" Then with no comments, it wouldn't be divisive.

Yonnie3

(17,434 posts)
21. The why is in an ATA thread
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:47 PM
Jun 2016

"We have come to view the notifications as a catalyst for forum drama." There's more at

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=10796

After mulling this over, I agree.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
15. One feature that I think might help
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:40 PM
Jun 2016

as a constructive suggestion, the notification that an alert has occurred and give the poster a chance to rescind or reword as an alternative before the jury sees it.

Perhaps a notice put on the alerted comment to indicate that it is in dispute. Perhaps include the alerters comment.

A lot of times it is nothing more than a poor choice of words.

BumRushDaShow

(128,877 posts)
41. When they transitioned from DU2 to early DU3
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:53 PM
Jun 2016

I recall that posters used to have the chance to edit if alerted before the post was removed by a mod. Then I think when they put the jury system in place and came up with the "hide" feature (which allowed the post to be view-able if someone wanted to see the original content in the interest of "transparency&quot , the edit ability went away.

Wednesdays

(17,356 posts)
32. I think I had read that yes, that is the case
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:38 PM
Jun 2016

I tend to support that. There'll be a lot fewer pissing contests.

babylonsister

(171,056 posts)
135. I would like to know what we're supposed to do
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 05:20 PM
Jun 2016

on a jury if someone seems to be voicing their opinion. It's not always so black and white.

Kingofalldems

(38,452 posts)
20. There is a huge opening for Trump concern trolls though.
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 06:46 PM
Jun 2016

They don't post anything snarky or technically against the rules but they are here.

 

TipTok

(2,474 posts)
85. Some folks have their sensitivity turned to 11...
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 05:47 AM
Jun 2016

... and honest discussion can be interpreted as evil trolls out to burn things to the ground.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
105. A part of your response could be taken differently.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 09:33 AM
Jun 2016

The "Too bad you don't like it" was a little "in your face".

 

TipTok

(2,474 posts)
114. Remember that bit about high sensitivity?
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 10:07 AM
Jun 2016

It's not all about you...

I threw out a general garment and you claimed it a perfect fit.

Interesting...

Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #101)

Cary

(11,746 posts)
28. You're just seeing that now?
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:18 PM
Jun 2016

They are nothing new. They had some fertile soil here and it's unfortunate.

Ron Paul cultists, and their silly "left-right paradigm" schtick.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
30. I still say we should have the right to complain about Dem politicians without worry that
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:32 PM
Jun 2016

a reader with a heavy Alert Button is going to take offense.

DU members aren't likely to promote a RepubiScum over a Dem any day or in any way.

Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)
34. Most Republican trolls that come here don't promote Republicans either. Their aim...
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:41 PM
Jun 2016

Is to say something they know will start a fight and polarize democrats. If you sow dissent among your enemies, they won't remember that they ought to be fighting you.

Wednesdays

(17,356 posts)
35. Well, tbh, there were a lot of recent posts
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:42 PM
Jun 2016

... that came very close to calling for people to vote for tRump if things didn't work out to their liking.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
37. Really? "a lot of rerecent posts"?? I'm here all of the time since I work out of my house and I have
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:45 PM
Jun 2016

not read ONE about going for Trump if Bernie did not make it...

Me thinks that u r exaggerating.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
119. We'll see after the general
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:48 PM
Jun 2016

During election season, I suspect it will be hard to complain about democrats. After that, I'll be curious.

My primary concern is that there will way to much concern about HOW something is said, instead of WHAT was said.

Just have to wait and see.

IronLionZion

(45,431 posts)
33. Lots of new members join the morning after a mass shooting
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:40 PM
Jun 2016

or some other politically controversial event. They just feel so inspired to join our forum on that day for some reason!

I like to welcome them to DU. And then when I check back later I see that most of them have been deleted!

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
39. Ahem... Bashing anonymous members...
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:48 PM
Jun 2016

See how easy it is to come close to warranting an ALERT now??
 

Gene Debs

(582 posts)
42. Maybe. They may also turn DU into an echo chamber where important truths are muzzled because
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 07:55 PM
Jun 2016

they happen to be inconvenient or unpleasant.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
120. That's a given
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:50 PM
Jun 2016

Basically, if one doesn't spend as much or more time and effort on HOW one says something than WHAT one is saying, there will be risks. Even worse, one can come in and declare anyone with a D a "saint" regardless of what NRA position they back, but if you refer to them as a sinner, you're in trouble.

global1

(25,241 posts)
47. It"s Too Bad That We Weren't Able To Get Rid Of Those Trolls....
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:18 PM
Jun 2016

back during the primaries. They were the cause of much of the decension here on DU.

demigoddess

(6,640 posts)
52. I am pretty tired of the bullies who answer your comment
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:39 PM
Jun 2016

with a version of you just don't have the right to disagree on any point.

Warpy

(111,247 posts)
54. Alert junkies seem to be working overtime
Tue Jun 21, 2016, 08:42 PM
Jun 2016

I've had more jury requests in the last two days than I had in the two weeks prior.

RussBLib

(9,006 posts)
71. so how about un-banning those banned from the Hillary Clinton group?
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:02 AM
Jun 2016

The primaries are over, right? So what if I preferred Bernie? I'm with Her, now. But I still can't post in the Group of the presumptive nominee?

Time to let bygones be bygones, at least for those who want to be un-banned.

applegrove

(118,622 posts)
72. And the trolls who came here to divide Democrats against each
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:08 AM
Jun 2016

other. Though I am detecting some very staid detractors in some threads.

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
73. There is one section that I disagree with...
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:12 AM
Jun 2016

That states that we cannot criticize someone like Anthony Wiener or others of similar character, simply because they are "Democrats". There is a certain line that should not be crossed, in my opinion.

Response to kentuck (Reply #73)

a la izquierda

(11,791 posts)
89. Right, so I am not allowed to say
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 06:55 AM
Jun 2016

Ed Manchin suck and is basically a republican?

Great. Corporate, gun toting, scumbag democrats can get a pass.

 

jack_krass

(1,009 posts)
76. I applaud the new rules. They will effectively kill the martyrdom drama
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:39 AM
Jun 2016

sideshows(some of the silliest mellodramatic bullshit Ive ever seen anywhere), threads jacked by meta discussions, and other drama bullshit which has plagued several forums here.

I personally dont need to see the result of my Jury.

kentuck

(111,079 posts)
79. I think they should make one small modification with the jury notification.
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:51 AM
Jun 2016

As it was, nobody knew who the jurors were, anyway.

emulatorloo

(44,117 posts)
81. Remember how many jury notifications were being re-posted verbatim in threads?
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 01:18 AM
Jun 2016

Always caused ridiculous drama. My theory is that's the reason we don't notification anymore after sitting on a jury.

Orrex

(63,203 posts)
121. Yes, it is indeed quite brilliant!
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:52 PM
Jun 2016

My wife My Good Babushka is the painter, however, so she gets the credit!

Thank you for the kind words!

mrmpa

(4,033 posts)
130. One change I would like is...........
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 03:35 PM
Jun 2016

to be able to see the results of my jury service. I've served about 5 times in the last 3 days. I think I clearly made the right choice and I would like to see validation, or, if I was wrong I would like to review and understand where I might have made the wrong choice.

 

maindawg

(1,151 posts)
131. Too many rules
Wed Jun 22, 2016, 03:38 PM
Jun 2016

Too many flaggings . People get upset too easily. Sometimes when someone has a strong opinion they get flaged when all that is needed is an edit. I mean you should not attack anyone or otherwise be disrespectful. Just because you feel very strongly that some part of our political sphere is askew, maybe you have a point. Its not unheard of for some part of it to be corrupt. And if that corruption is in our backyard we would be twice as bad as they are if we did not root it out.
I never vote to block a post unless it's a personal attack.

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