I get the vibe that in the current political climate, Jews and white gay men are not deemed ...

[redgreenandblue]

..."sufficiently oppressed" for them to be granted the right to an opinion on discrimination by certain segments of liberalism.

It seems as if, if your "differentness" does not either immediately show, or you make a point of drawing attention to it at every chance, people will assume you have not faced discrimination. And if you dare to voice an opinion on oppression that differs from that of certain people, you will immediately get accused of "whitesplaining"/"mansplaining". By straight white men and women no less. Sucks....

[merrily]

1. A DUer mocked me for mansplaining about 3 days ago--and I'm not only a woman, but a woman who had

just posted that women should be treated no worse or no better than a man.

No good can come from taking that kind of stuff seriously.

Just wave, smile and nod.

Much easier to say it than to live it, I know.

[Demit]

2. Sounds like someone on DU disagreed with something you said?

Then they made an assumption about you personally, even though they don't know you? Why, that never happens here!

[leeroysphitz]

6. lol... WHEN have we EVER???

[geek tragedy]

3. it's pretty simple, non-Jews shouldn't try to 'explain' anti-Semitism to Jews, straight people

should not try to 'explain' homophobia to lesbians and gay men, white people shouldn't 'explain' racism to black people.

[redgreenandblue]

10. And what if someone doesn't fall neatly into one category?

Is someone who is one quarter African American and is generally straight but has occasional bisexual tendencies allowed to "explain" something?

[geek tragedy]

12. you can explain your own experiences, nt

[peace13]

16. Love this.

Love the people who make rules about rules. It ranks up there with 'our primaries are only for D and R's'. Explain anything you want! If we don't speak up, we won't be heard.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. Spoken like someone who is neither African-American or bisexual, as ...

those who are comfort being either, don't parse shit out like that.

But that just may be my anecdotal experience.

[redgreenandblue]

28. I am part Latino and bisexual.

My brother is gay and lives in Orlando.

Good enough? Thanks for illustrating my point...

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Well ...

I am part Latino and bisexual

That is a very different statement from:

someone who is one quarter African American and is generally straight but has occasional bisexual tendencies

And, your brother being gay in Orlando is unrelated to your original statement.

[William769]

51. Trust me, we know where you're coming from. nt

[cali]

34. seems like non-Jews here and many other places have no problem

explaining anti-Semitism to Jews and rarely get any backlash for doing so. In fact, it seems that its our Jewish brothers and sisters here who get tongue lashed for pointing out that non-jews are doing this.

[geek tragedy]

35. Anti-semitism gets treated with kid gloves too often

by a fair number of those adhering to the global left, and that shows up here.

[Hortensis]

53. Where is all this anti-Semitism? My A-S detector must

be getting rusty. It was my observation that the anti-Semitism so unfortunately returning among some elements on the radical left was hard to find on DU and probably held away by the strong support for one of our two leading Democratic candidates who is Jewish, Bernie Sanders.

Wife of a Jew here, mother of two who look like Jews, follow a few Jewish traditions for "heritage," and have Jewish names. Don't know what I'm supposed to be qualified to speak on, but having my feelers poised has been something of a 45-year habit.

[jack_krass]

59. Yes, but can a person one quarter chinese "chinsplain" maoism to a jamacain???

Or must he be at least 3/5 chinese? Inquiring minds want to know.

Welcome to identity politics, a toxic authoritarian philosophy built on a foundation of jello, and (fortunately) having little relevance outside of universities and messageboards.

[Else You Are Mad]

4. I have noticed

There is a small portion of people on liberal websites that assume that anyone who disagrees (whether correctly or incorrectly) with their beliefs or opinions is automatically a privileged, white male that is talking down to them rather than talking to them and, thus, is wrong.

Of course, that does go on, but when this is repeatedly used to try to win an argument, it is absurd and is offensive.

[GummyBearz]

15. You nailed it

While the portion is small as you said, it also seems to be very active. The majority of debates can be won by resorting to the "you don't get it because of your privilege" line these days.

[840high]

27. +1

[VulgarPoet]

32. I can't tell you how many times I've been insinuated to be a straight white man.

(The correct answer is "none of the above".)

[jack_krass]

61. There are entire subforums on DU where this type of idiocy runs amock

[Bluenorthwest]

5. DU is certainly full of self certainty. Straight white men who explain it all to LGBT and women

without a single hint of irony are super common here. Straight men pontificating about women and LGBT while being 'non white' is also common here.

Straight men telling LGBT and women all about LGBT and women gets very old and there is no group of straight men who have standing to lecture us about ourselves.

[leeroysphitz]

9. Thanks for gaysplaining why I (a bi white man in his 40s) amnot allowed to have or voice an opinion.

I've never been waterboarded by the CIA lol but I'm pretty damn sure I could do a decent job of 'splainin why it's bad but whatever.

[Democat]

30. Do not criticize Donald Trump unless you've lived as a billionaire

You don't understand his problems.

[LanternWaste]

46. Your self-certainty is certainly oppressed.

Your self-certainty is certainly oppressed.

But whatever, part two.

[jack_krass]

62. Can.you point out some examples?

[Marr]

7. This is symptomatic of the left's general problem in this country.

It's devolved into an identity politics pity party. It allows the perpetually outraged to set the agenda, and all they ever really want to talk about is themselves.

[Albertoo]

11. ^^ +++ That +++ ^^^

Can we get back to equal opportunity (regardless of age/sex/skin shade/sexual orientation)
and decent wage + health care for all?

PC-correctness does get tiring after a while.

[6chars]

17. human nature, baby.

[Democat]

31. It allows people to ignore any voice that they disagree with

If you are different from them, your opinion doesn't count.

[jack_krass]

60. Yep

[closeupready]

8. Oh yeah. Any man defending any other man in ANY situation is a Men's Rights Activist.

ALWAYS. And crazy and scary!

The juvenile drama that goes on here on DU has either gotten worse, or as I've gotten older, I find it tedious and silly. Cheers.

[whatthehey]

13. Ah the Oppression Olympics.

I think I have the pecking order broadly down now but there's some gaps. Whose side should I take automatically between a white handicapped poor gay US-born degreed Christian man and a black middle class able bodied bisexual immigrant HS dropout Muslim woman? Do I need to use their support for environmental activism as a tie-breaker?

[Jim Lane]

21. Assuming they're both cis, it would depend on who's left-handed. (n/t)

[GreatGazoo]

14. not sure that any of us truly knows what others face

and conversely it is very difficult, as an individual, to see that even if the biggest prejudice that other people have against you was taken away, you would be discriminated against for something else. One example, I know a couple of women who lost a lot of weight only to find that the co-workers and schoolmates who had called them "fat" now called them "sl*t". People tend to insult others with the words or ideas that they themselves find most hurtful when aimed at them.

The Greeks used to say "The oppressed oppress" and today we say "Haters gonna hate" so we have externalized it but the core idea is there in both -- miserable people spread misery.

[ecstatic]

18. A lot of bitterness in this thread...

[Demit]

19. And a LOT of generalizing.

[gaspee]

20. And a lot of whining

And a lot of right wing tropes - oppression olympics? Where have I heard that before?

[Number23]

55. Ain't that the damn truth.

Allow me to co-sign your

[kwassa]

22. So, someone didn't listen to your opinion? So sad.

I would point out, however, that experiences with discrimination vary greatly in their specificity. How one group is discriminated against might have no relation to the way others are discriminated against. Experience with one may not give you insight to all.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. You are correct.

Apparently, to some, the only forms of "privilege" come only in "white" and "male" form, no other kinds exist and, if they do, they aren't nearly as important. Since the massacre, there has been a whole lot of 'splainin' going on, but it is the "straight" version. People fail to recognize the legitimacy of heterosexism and homophobia, (and anti-Semitism), which is why there are many who exert their HETEROSEXUAL PRIVILEGE and then claim it "doesn't exist" only "privilege" used against their group is real. It is the reason one sees straight people dictating to gay people what is and isn't homophobic (same with people telling Jews what is and isn't anti-Semitism, and attempting to redefining it to suit their twisted needs). It is also why you see privileged people mocking gays (Jews) as "whining" and "not getting their way." The great irony is some of those doing it are actually following the script of their own oppressors.

Heterosexism and homo/transphobia are quite real and many, most, GLBT have experience with it, but we are dismissed, ridiculed, and branded as bigots when we dare to stand up and speak our truths.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. Really? Where do you see this?

I don't mean where do you see homophobia? Or anti Semitism. I mean where do you see people claiming that those are not ways one can be discriminated against? Is this a du specific thing or are you talking about life in general?

[redgreenandblue]

29. Well, if there were examples of it on DU, pointing them out would be against the new rules.

Since that would constitute 'meta discussion'.

But no, not a DU specific thing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. Ok, I do think that all minorities face some forms of discrimination

But some forms are more built into the system, like anti black racism. Some are more interpersonal and less systemic.

[romanic]

25. Identity politics.

Aka the albatross of liberalism and social justice.

[geek tragedy]

36. .

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. Because white and male identity clearly doesn't drive their politics

People are so determined not to learn what advantages them and might disadvantage others.

[romanic]

42. Roll them all you want.

You know I'm right, identity politics and vilifying those who aren't as "oppressed" as another group has backfired on more than one occasion.

[Shankapotomus]

37. Awww...

Now they know how the straight, white men with invisible disabilities they told to shut up feel.

[laserhaas]

39. I didn't learn of my jewish heritage, until I was 40ish

The woman I thought was my grand mother .mwas actually my Step grandmother...my real grand mom died giving birth to my mother

This is why the arguments about Warren or Obama ..suck...because no one can testify to most things ...about when, where or how they were born....without guidance from elsewhere.

Be thay as it may...as a Progressive....YID...I am with the Honorable Cornel West.

My brothers and sister, black, jews, Palestinians, women, or Chinamens chance people ( do you kniw where that phrase arose) are those of oppression...and can only be addressed by the Caucasian male who admits oppression of all others has transpired.

The Causian male has always used an issue of defense, based on fears expounded, to justify being oppressive

I dont have to be a Jew to know what the Nazi's did was wrong...

I do not need to be a black person to know that blacks were...and still are...looked down upon by most Caucasian males

I dont have to be gay to know that LGBT still suffer

And that the weak always have a lessor voice ( such as kids or elders abused )

Nor do I need to be any other race, creed, color of skin or type of Religion...to know many evils have been done in the false claim of righteous superiority

But the one thing that is universally True...There always are those who have suffered more

That never means I have right to complain against those that suffered less.

A bully mentality is a bully mentality..

No matter how it is guised

We can't abuse prisoners, just because we put them in jail

And we should be aware that many who suffer dont live in a steal cage that their actions put them in.

Compassion requires that there be compassion

Otherwise...you are compassionless

[Bluenorthwest]

41. Darling, LGBT don't just 'suffer' we are misused and mistreated by the straight majority.

Most straight people look at us with contempt, and DU since Orlando has shown that to be very true.

[laserhaas]

56. Sorry Bluenorthwest...that inhumanity is the Rule

rather than the exception

[libodem]

43. Nobody has the right to any opinion

Nobody should be able to have their own thoughts, or to write or speak them. Everybody should shut up.

Somebody will tell us what to think snd say.

Development of empathy or compassion aren't important. Can't possibly ever happen. Alliance with other groups of people who support is essentially meaningless.

[Behind the Aegis]

44. You don't think homophobia and anti-Semitism are sometimes marginalized?

I do.

You are entitled to your opinion, but there comes a point where someone from a majority group exhibits or expresses their privilege at the expense of a minority group. What I took from the OP was that when that privilege is heterosexual or Christian (or at least, not Jewish), then it is dismissed as not being a form of privilege. Black people/women don't like when white people/men tell what is and isn't racist/sexist. That shouldn't come as a shock. It also doesn't mean they don't want to hear the opinions of white people/men, they just don't white people/men "explaining" (white/mansplaining) to them what is real or true about the African-American/female experience. It is no different with Jews and the GLBT, yet some can't seem to comprehend that very simple fact; thus, we see non-Jews telling Jews what it is and isn't anti-Semitism; what makes someone a 'real' Jew, and a variety of other things. It means we see straight people 'splainin to GLBT people what is and isn't homophobia; when they should or shouldn't express our concerns in regards to our civil rights; and that discrimination against us isn't "as important" as discrimination against others.

[libodem]

48. I thought I was born liberal

My parents were liberal. They taught nondiscrimination. But apparently if I'm not a minority I could never get it.

What an ass I've been for 60 years feeling all good about my magnanimous attitude of tolerance and acceptance.

Fuck. Me.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. How strange.

Careful now, standing next to all that flammable straw.

One can't be born "liberal."

I never said if &quot you are) not a minority (you) could never get it." As a matter of fact, I didn't even imply such an absurd thing. Apparently, though, you do feel that people in a majority culture have the right to tell those in a minority culture what is and isn't "their (the minority's) truth", because otherwise your legion of strawmen and sarcasm make no sense.

[ismnotwasm]

45. I think it depends on the particular--and individual--argument

Being made, i.e. if the argument seems to lessen or minimize the experiences of another group.

Jews and White Gay men experience horrible discrimination, there should be NO argument about that.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. There shouldn't be an argument about that, but there is.

When I am told my rights as a gay man aren't really "civil rights"; I take offense to that statement. When I am told we aren't really victimized in the same way, therefore, it isn't as serious; I find that offensive. When stories about anti-Semitism are "dismissed" and we are told "there are other people with more serious problems"; I find that very offensive. When a Jewish person is attacked for being Jewish and we are told "who cares? this is just some stupid spat."; I find that offensive. All of these things have been said by supposed liberal/progressive people (except the last quote which is actually more of a paraphrase).

The murders in Orlando shined a very, very ugly light on homophobia and heterosexism among self-professed progressives/liberals.

[ismnotwasm]

50. Yeah.

It's been quite the year for ugly revelations. I hope, pray--whatever it takes-- that we learn from it. My entire life's philosophy is to fight the negative "isms"--to see one pitted against the other is horrible to watch or worse, be a part of.

So, it's all still "isms" not "wasms" We don't live in a "post" anything society--And I think the revelations of racism, sexism, anti-semitism and homophobia revealed on the left itself lately is the largest evidence of this.

I'm sorry BtA, I hope we can do better than this--much better.

[Behind the Aegis]

58. I hope so too.

"to see one pitted against the other is horrible to watch or worse, be a part of" and you know what, that is exactly what has been happening, especially to Jews and the GLBT, especially gay men. When we speak out, we are accused of being "whiney", racist, "over sensitive", clueless, and other nasty things. It is even sadder when it is by people who claim they are against various other -isms, even lecture people about it, but when it comes to their own disgraceful displays of bigotry and privilege, then it is "No! YOU (Jew/gay man) don't really understand and I will explain why you are wrong according to ME!"

[ymetca]

54. My wife accuses me...

...of "mansplaining" things all the time. Sometimes I get what she is saying and sometimes I don't.

But when I give her my take on why white male politicians do what they do, which is mostly just expressing their suppressed phallicism, she just nods her head in agreement.

Like John McCain's constant caterwalling about how our military always "pulls out too soon."

If there is one thing we both understand it is the "rape culture" in the heart of a sexually stunted bigot.

[slipslidingaway]

57. Well stated, discrimination comes in all forms and non should be superior to another. nt