Crediting white men with the work of minorities and women

[La Lioness Priyanka]

A few times today I've seen on DU the crediting of the ideas/work of minorities or women to white men. I am sure no one is being intentionally racist or sexist, however, this has a long history. Most minorities and women could tell you of a time when a white man was credited with their idea at work or school. This is a very common occurrence, and frequently when women have tried to reclaim their achievement they are seen as being petty/not sportsmanlike/not gracious.

Again, I am sure that NO one on DU is doing this intentionally, but please be aware that this sort of thing has happened to a lot of us in our lives (and is well documented in research/academia), so maybe just try to avoid doing it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. Stop what?

[JustAnotherGen]

9. That's the one following around sheshe

That keeps posting a picture of what I think is his mom. That's his next post.

[sheshe2]

26. Junior was back for another visit?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. Lol

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. Lol

[pinboy3niner]

21. ...

"Leave white men ALOOOOONE!1!!"

[kentauros]

58. I'm guessing "Name Removed" was the same person

for whom I served jury duty earlier. No mom-picture in it, but it was most definitely a whiner about the OP. And yes, it was a personal attack, thus the various hides and PPR

[pinboy3niner]

59. Plus overt racism and misogyny

Now he's back again downthread.

[kentauros]

61. As it turns out, it *was* the one downthread.

I remembered the text of it. No I won't point it out, but it does point to itself quite handily.

[we can do it]

220. I needed this the other day.

Poor picked on white boy complaining about "reverse discrimination"

[sufrommich]

13. Wow.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. Cray cray

[JustAnotherGen]

16. He's very angry

Wait until he shows you a picture of his mom!

[sheshe2]

23. Did I miss something?

[greatauntoftriplets]

27. The one you asked about last night.

[sheshe2]

29. Busy guy~

[sufrommich]

28. You missed a very angry racist who didn't care for

women much either.

[sheshe2]

32. Sounds like the 3 post wonder that has been following me.

Glad I missed it.

[sufrommich]

39. Interesting that he's chosen you and Lioness to spew his rage at.

[sheshe2]

46. I sure hope he didn't post pictures this time.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

56. Isn't it just?

[JustAnotherGen]

80. That guy showed up again

The fact that no one is stopping because he "said so" is cracking me up.

[sheshe2]

92. I have every confidence in the world...

There will be a return performance.

Cracks me up as well... Lol~

[CreekDog]

111. Bernie gave you the courage to say that!

#justkidding

Yes, what you said x1000.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

118. Lol. Hi!!!

[Pacifist Patriot]

2. Raising hand

Been done to me countless times. That, and people at DU assuming I'm a man. Not sure what constitutes man-posting, but I am more often than not presumed to be male by people who don't know me online. I have found that curious over the years. Don't get it. Really.

Great post. Thanks!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. ....

[sarae]

60. I've read that people tend to ascribe a male gender to gender-neutral names,

which is annoying, but not too surprising considering our sexist culture.

...maybe that's why?

[ehrnst]

82. Nah. Social Justice work done by minorities in the civil rights movement

by people who are bringing it to the House was being represented as originating with a white man. Or at least 'inspired' by a white man.

[sarae]

107. Sorry, I don't think I was clear in my last post.

I meant that maybe the person I was replying to (Pacifist Patriot) was assumed to be male because of their gender-neutral name...wasn't referring to the OP in this thread.

[ehrnst]

143. Sorry!

[Skittles]

70. I am often presumed to be a man

it may be because of my constant ass kicking threats

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

202. Skittles is the name of my female cat... so naturally I presumed you were a cat! hahaha...

Sorry for the mistake!! : )

[Skittles]

227. Skittles was my male 25 pound solid bundle of feline love

yes INDEED

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

230. Too funny!!!

[mopinko]

75. get that a lot myself.

even tho the mo in mopinko could easily mean more, and most guys named mo spell it w an e.

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. LOL! Just wait ... Now that you self-disclosed ...

people that were high-fiving and Yupping you yesterday, will suddenly have you the craziest, ill-logical, emotional thinker in the universe, tomorrow!

[BlueMTexpat]

154. As well as

"hysterical" ....

[1StrongBlackMan]

161. And, overly sensitive, when you point the change out!

[Aerows]

108. Look at my avatar.

I *still* get assumed to be male on occasion.

[Scootaloo]

113. Well, avatar-based gender judgement goes both ways

<-- case in point

[Aerows]

139. Touché :) n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

196. And I'm guilty again. nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

159. LOL!

[awoke_in_2003]

194. I haven't thought much about it

but I admit I thought you were male.

[Aerows]

205. Well, now we have that all cleared up :)

Male or female, you are a pretty good egg, awoke_in_2003, I certainly don't hold it against you!

[awoke_in_2003]

210. Thanks

you are one of my favorite DUers

[BlueCaliDem]

203. Well, it *is* a sexy avatar, Aerows. Maybe that's why?

Great avatar, btw.

[Aerows]

204. You know just what to say to a girl

don't you?

I've always thought that things like avatars should have some symbolism. This one is three fold. I'm a sagittarius, it's a female centaur, and she's aiming left.

Thus, my avatar.

[geek tragedy]

156. people assume I'm a woman for some reason

maybe because I talk about this 'feminism' thing

[BlueMTexpat]

162. I self-declared in my

profile and elsewhere. But some still believe that I am male.

Should I be worried?

[geek tragedy]

169. sadly, you probably get treated better because they think you're a man

I think if you put "Tex" in any user name people will take that as a cue that the person is male

[BlueMTexpat]

172. LOL - I'd never thought about that.

Truly! But I think you've got it!

The "T" comes from "MT" and yes, I have occasionally gotten addressed as "Tex" in a reply, but thought it was kind of cute.

Besides, my maternal grandmother was born in TX in the 1890s, so I have a legitimate, though vicarious, claim to "Tex."

[Quantess]

164. Believe it or not, it's happened to me at the DU, too.

Personally I think the name Quantess sounds obviously feminine. I "stole" the name from a little black girl.

And yet, other DUers have once or twice referred to me as "he". Weird.

[Hortensis]

206. Maybe the same 2 who took me for a male.

I might have forgotten to sprinkle my posts with smilies or something.

[Quantess]

208. Yeah spray glittery gifs and lace

with glittery butterflies

[sufrommich]

3. Yep. Saw that too. Sickening. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. I'm not sickened because I genuinely believe that no one is doing this intentionally

But we should all be aware of this.

[arcane1]

5. Crick and Watson's dismissal of Rosalind Franklin's contributions come to mind.

I remember reading "The Double Helix" back in the early 1990's, and being amazed at how much they put her down and joked about her, yet by the end of the book they were building off her observations without even a cursory attempt at crediting her.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. Yup

[Odin2005]

109. That is exactly what I thought of, too.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

10. What are you talking about? Who is giving undue credit to white men, and where?

It's difficult to have a discussion with no specificity.

[WolverineDG]

15. Somebody mentioned Bernie Sanders showing up to support Rep. Lewis

and apparently, a lot of people are upset by that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. Didn't say support at all. Which would be perfectly appropriate

And that was not the only post I'm even referring to

[DisgustipatedinCA]

22. Thanks. I think it's great that Senator Sanders and so many others are supporting this.

I don't understand why anyone would be upset about Sanders supporting this action, but it's all good--so long as no one tries to disparage any Democrats.

[LongtimeAZDem]

25. It wasn't that the Senator was supporting the action

It was that some seemed to imply that Sanders deserved credit for it, because of his campaign. This could easily seem like a slight on those actually leading the action in the House.

[Squinch]

33. I did notice that. And, whether his supporters like it or not, he isn't exactly the

go-to guy for gun control.

He didn't make this.

[JonLeibowitz]

86. He is less bad on gun control than people like Murphy. Of course I'm still disappointed he went

to the floor. That was a mistake, as the bill should not be passed.

[ehrnst]

85. No one is disparaging "support." But there have been claims that white men

somehow gave the people in the House, such as John Lewis, the "idea" of doing this, or paved the way.

Which is very different than supporting John Lewis in this action, establishment he may be, who has a long history of social justice work in the streets, and is a revolutionary of long standing.

Elizabeth Warren was there as well, sitting on the floor in solidarity.

The OP had nothing to do with the white man himself, but those who gave him the credit for what civil rights icon and now establishment personage John Lewis did on the House floor, as if sit-ins somehow originated in the last year.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

95. Thanks. I haven't seen anything like that in these pages.

I'd need to see where someone said such a thing before I'd jump on that bandwagon. Maybe these posts you're referring to were deleted.

[ehrnst]

144. Search for "Sanders effect" (nt)

[LanternWaste]

198. More accurately, a post was crediting Sanders for starting this "movement"

More accurately, a post was crediting Sanders for starting this "movement" that Lewis merely took advantage of. However, I'd consciously misinterpret it starting the movement as merely "mentioned Bernie Sanders showing up" too were my biases so inclined.

[GaYellowDawg]

24. I hope you don't mind this input

As a white man, I just wanted say this: those with privilege are generally the most blind to it. There are advantages that I simply won't see that just about everyone else will. Not for lack of trying, but for lack of experience. With the new DU rules, I'm hoping that we'll see more explaining and less attacking. I think your post was a great example of the former. And I'll say this to other white males: Listen. You may or may not agree with someone. But the most important thing is that we listen and consider someone else's experiences, and clearly respect what they have to say.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. Thank you so much for saying that

I truly appreciate it.

[Squinch]

37. I like to think that I am pretty aware of my privilege, and that I am very willing to

listen and be educated.

Every once in a while, though, I come up against something that shows me exactly how much I am looking out at the world from behind my privilege. Most recently was when someone posted a thread asking why no one was going after the parents of the child who was killed by the alligator, when they had been so quick to go after the parents of the child who had gotten into the gorilla cage.

It is such an obvious question, but it never occurred to me until the poster pointed it out to me.

We are all blind to our own privilege to some extent.

[arcane1]

47. Some people can be dismissed outright.

Starting here.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. This guy is obsessed with me. Obsessed.

[arcane1]

66. So it would seem. Your post hit a nerve :)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. A while ago I hit a nerve. Now this might just be bad habit.

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. Hmmm ...

And I was having a bad day. This thread ought to spark me up!

[Prism]

34. What are you pissed about now?

You're being pointedly nonspecific. If you were interested in discussion, you'd discuss. But, alas, here we are.

If this is about the House Action, here ya go. John Lewis is leading the charge in civil disobedience in the House to object to a lack of gun control legislation. Bernie Sanders has joined, so yay him. But John Lewis is the leading voice and throwing the fuck down where it matters.

Is that a correct narrative, or are you stewing over something else?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

36. lol.

[Prism]

71. Are you about drama or are you about justice?

Sometimes, you can't get both.

And sometimes the justice is the drama. Being able to recognize that is key. Some things stand for themselves. I'd include John Lewis today here.

[1StrongBlackMan]

91. LOL ... He mad!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

116. So mad and so I must take his nonsense seriously

[Prism]

183. Actually, no

Just bored.

"Loook at meee!"

A'right. I'm looking. And?

Y'all are awfully quiet about Orlando, btw. Curious.

[1StrongBlackMan]

199. Okay Bored. ...

Y'all are awfully quiet about Orlando, btw. Curious.

Why curious ... we, both, are horrified be the killings and have condemned them, and have asked the Universe to look out for the families and friends of the victims.

LLP has gone much, much farther in her commenting; but, what more is this straight man supposed to say? ... especially, in a thread that has not a damn thing to do with Orlando.

[Prism]

200. Oh, I was just mentioning

When justice doesn't personally affect, suddenly justice is unworthy of commentary.

Terrible human condition.

We should aspire to better, no?

[1StrongBlackMan]

201. That is a stupid rebuttal; again, ...

we, both, are horrified be the killings and have condemned them, and have asked the Universe to look out for the families and friends of the victims.

LLP has gone much, much farther in her commenting; but, what more is this straight man supposed to say? ... especially, in a thread that has not a damn thing to do with Orlando.

Or, are you just doing a "look at me"?

[1StrongBlackMan]

209. I could have sworn I saw LLP comment on Orlando ...

there's an odd silence among the self-appointed social justice cohort.

...

All the "social justice is everything!" people who rained down on this place in the primary got really fucking quiet in the wake of Orlando. In all these threads, there are a lot of names missing. Well, if they care so very much, where are they?

And the "all income, all the time cohort has nothing to say about social justice (except if they happen to be gay, then they limit all discussion to that) except to shit all over the discussion. So, if we acted like you, I suspect you should welcome our silence ... I know we welcome yours.

At any rate ... I told you the substance of what I posted ... what the fuck more do you want? but even still ... who the hell are you to tell, someone else what topics they should or shouldn't post on.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

211. i wrote a giant OP about why i didn't comment. something hit too close to home

every one of those boys looked like my younger brother to me, it made me want to vomit. i didn't not comment because I don't care, i didn't comment much because it's really painful for me.

[Number23]

228. Ah, now I see what you were talking about.

And yeah, it's clear that it's some "look at me!11" ism going on in here, but it ain't coming from Priyanka.

Some folks are always in such a rush to revisit old crap and show their true colors, as though no one already knows what they are. It's absolutely astonishing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

223. i am gay and brown. my brother is gay and brown. my best friend is gay and brown

how on earth do you think the Orlando shooting doesn't pertain to us?

[BlueMTexpat]

166. It's sad.

You get a great reply, like the one slightly upthread ( ) ... and then you get a reply like the one this responds to.

I truly believe that the former outnumber the latter.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

179. Absolutely. I too believe that.

[melman]

52. +1

Don't hold your breath waiting for specifics, they won't be forthcoming.

[Prism]

74. I know better

But might as well take a stab. I've a knife in hand for chicken dinner. Except, at the end, I have a delicious meal instead of disappointment.

[Warpy]

35. Back in the early 60s, a textbook for high school students came out

that called Marie Curie her husband's lab assistant. Men and women both raised hell and got it withdrawn quickly.

This shit has been going on for so long. Women who wanted to write (and be published) did it under male pseudonyms, usually the names of husbands or brothers.

I've lost count of the number of times one of my idea has been dismissed until some guy repeated it.

And they wonder why so many of us are angry about the way we have to live.

[obamanut2012]

45. lolz

[demmiblue]

51. .

[Warpy]

53. Do you think white males gave us a damned thing?

We've had to fight them tooth and nail for every single crumb we've got.

So read some history.

[ehrnst]

87. +11 (nt)

[johnp3907]

98. racist troll much?

[Warpy]

105. Damn, I miss all the good stuff.

[1939]

64. I went to school in the 40s and 50s and it was always Madame Curie in the text book.

and until the US got industry going in the 19th century, most scientific discoveries were by European men on the continent of Europe. The Muslim world led in science until 1500 or so when the fundamentalist whackos took over and destroyed Islamic education and science.

[Warpy]

68. I got out of high school in the 60s and our textbooks gave her full credit

The Muslim Golden Age was coincidental with the maximum rights for women, when the old patriarchal tribal rubbish had been largely banished by Muhammad. Unfortunately, if there's one thing a patriarch can't stand it's a woman with the ability to say no to him, so it was codified back into Islam.

What has remained is proof of what religious patriarchs can accomplish on their own: nothing.

[1939]

94. That Islamic fundamentalism

also destroyed the great universities and other seats of learning in Islam just as Europe was recovering from the Dark Ages and entering the Renaissance. It wasn't the crusades that destroyed the caliphate.

[Warpy]

104. Yeah, the Caliphate destroyed the Crusades

and eventually kicked them all out, but only after they'd become a little more learned and civilized, themselves.

I imagine Rome was utterly aghast at what they brought back with them. That's why Popes stopped calling for military Crusades.

It was too late.

[1939]

140. A very good book

"Nomads and Crusaders: A.D. 1000-1368" by Archibald R. Lewis shows the world in 1000 as consisting of Western (Roman Catholic) Europe, Eastern (Orthodox) Europe, Islamic World, India, and China (plus Korea and Japan) with Western Europe and China on the fringes and describes the process whereby Western Europe and China expand and grow greater at the expense of India and Islam as nomadic barbarians (Turks and Mongols) tear apart Eastern Europe and Islam. The Islamic World had deadly and genocidal religious wars between various sects of Islam that would make the Thirty Years War in Germany look like a neighborhood spat.

[awoke_in_2003]

197. Good point about Muslim academia

Same thing is happening now in our country, but it is fundie xtians leading the charge against education.

[Odin2005]

110. Even today many women writers obscure their first names in order to hide their gender.

Hence "JK Rowling" rather than "Joanne Rowling". Her publisher explicitly told her to do that because they said that young men would be much less likely to buy the book if her gender was obvious.

[BlueMTexpat]

168. Great minds ... eom

[BlueMTexpat]

167. Examples of writers ...

George Eliot, George Sand, J.K. Rowling ...

[niyad]

193. so very, very true

[Hekate]

38. Kick

That is all

[betsuni]

40. K&R

[bravenak]

42. I appreciate this op

It is a thing we do in America that diminishes the accomplishments of any who are not able bodied white men.
I notice it a lot when discussing civil rights that any time a white man does the same thing millions of blacks or women or BOTH are already doing, it becomes a big deal that they are so 'selfless', and they get extra props just for doing the right thing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. Thanks hon. A lot of positive posts but some of the usual

Misogynyst and racists pretending to be progressives

[Squinch]

63. My favorite are the, "What are you on about now?" posts. As if this is a piffle. It isn't. Thanks

for the thread.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

65. Or attributing anger to me or implying I made it up

Even though this op of mine is literally as non accusatory as can be while discussing race and gender.

[Squinch]

69. Yep.

[mercuryblues]

89. assigning negative

emotions to you that clearly were not in your OP. Wonder why (not really)

[1StrongBlackMan]

93. Chuck a rock at a pack of dogs ...

Last edited Thu Jun 23, 2016, 10:21 AM - Edit history (1)

the dog that yelps be the dog done got hit.

In this case, the rock must have split.

[JustAnotherGen]

151. OT but you know where I'm going to go with this

The dog that yelped is the dog got hit! <-- Memories of summers on a farm in Alabama. Also -" don't you know children ought' be seen and not heard?"

I need a fried peach pie now.

[1StrongBlackMan]

160. LOL ...

I need a fried peach pie now.

Big Momma's recipe or Ms. Becky's recipe?

Oh, wait ...!

[Number23]

106. They just can't help themselves. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so incredibly stupid and

unnecessary. They think they're insulting Priyanka when they're doing nothing but drawing attention to themselves. And given their histories, that really should be the absolute LAST thing they'd want.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

124. Thanks much! I appreciate it!

[bravenak]

83. They get excited by posts like this and just can't help signing up

[La Lioness Priyanka]

117. Oh some of them have been here a while

[bravenak]

133. Oh yeah.

[ehrnst]

88. This. (nt)

[obamanut2012]

43. THANK YOU, PRI

It is mindboggling to me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. ...

[sarae]

48. K & R!

[Starry Messenger]

55. k&r

[DemonGoddess]

57. K&R!

Thank you.

[ismnotwasm]

62. Thank you

K&R

[beastie boy]

72. And how many times have we seen a woman being BLAMED for what is a matter of course for white men?

Usually by white men who seem completely unaware of the double standard.

Even totally positive qualities like being assertive or daring to show above average intelligence in public are somehow construed as a fault.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

125. especially for being agentic (aggressive, ambitious, ruthless). we hate the same traits in women

that we prize in men. the same traits that we associate with leadership.

[beastie boy]

138. God forbid!...

...I was going to write a lengthy response, but as soon as I typed the title, it clicked.

All we have to do is watch Jesus, a pacifist, somewhat effeminate brown oppressed minority mystic, become a white masculine acquisitive agentic object of worship in white America - an avatar for white privilege. The improbable and fragile mythology of the American Jesus is now being threatened to the point of collapse by the various minorities who assert those same qualities without being white or male.

Is it possible that minorities are perceived as an existential threat by the white Americans who fear the loss of their foundational mythology on top of losing their cultural dominance? This would explain, at least in part, why bigotry is so surprisingly pervasive and persistent on a subconscious level even in cases where individuals protest being called bigots. This goes beyond your run of the mill traditional racism, and this is probably why it often goes unrecognized as such.

[geek tragedy]

157. women get blamed for what their husbands do, either for being a Lady MacBeth or an 'enabler' nt

[Night Watchman]

73. Today's Example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027942333

[SaschaHM]

100. There are not enough...

facepalm and drag queen gifs for me to post in that thread.

[The Second Stone]

76. Rosalind Franklin

that is all

[obamanut2012]

84. And Sybil Ludington

[ALBliberal]

77. As a white woman raised in poverty with minorities (POC)...

Social justice supporters can be of any color or ilk. No group has a monopoly on matters of social justice. Believe it or not we are all in this together. The sooner we realize that the better off we will all be.

Ask yourself.... who benefits when we fight among ourselves? When we aren't allowed to champion each other's causes? United we stand. Divided we fall.

[1StrongBlackMan]

112. Thank you for the correcting lecture ...

Now ... who are you correcting? Who said anything of the sort you are correcting?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

126. and this has what to do with what i said?

[ALBliberal]

155. I felt your post aimed to stir up a discussion of why a white man could not

in good faith join a rebellion led by a civil rights icon. This white man could not in good faith bring his supporters into a noble rebellion. My reply aimed to show that we aren't always fairly represented by the color of our skin. We are the sum total of life experiences. Furthermore I wondered: why compartmentalize and therefore divide? It takes away from the great message that Lewis has advocated for his whole life, a message of love acceptance and tolerance. I will say this...as a fairly new poster I won't be joining in future discussions unless I test the "snark" level.

[obamanut2012]

171. Pri's OP was about a black male Civil Rights icon & his white female colleague leading that action

And some of the white man's supporters, who wasn't even there, who isn't a member of that body, being the reason why the black man and the white women started the action.

She is not compartmentalizing nor dividing, and it is odd you are declaring that in several posts, when it's obvious she isn't saying that.

[ALBliberal]

176. Maybe more clarity on her part is needed?

I will stay clear of these vague postings. Have a nice day.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

188. I was plenty clear. Many other people got it. A small minority chose to misconstrue it

You happen to be part of that minority

[Haveadream]

177. The OP is about the exclusion and erasure of minorities and women

not white men. It is about the frequent phenomenon of giving white men top billing and credit for efforts they have not led.

[ALBliberal]

178. It still worked to somewhat alienate. Certainly didn't feel inclusive

to some of us. Thanks for your help in explaining though. I can see that I should have studied it more closely. If I had I probably could have picked up on these finer points.

[Haveadream]

182. Feeling excluded and alienated feels extremely bad

Especially when one's valuable ideas, efforts and successes are discounted. The fact that you experienced that can actually be helpful because it can give you an essential insight into how minorities feel all the time.

[ALBliberal]

184. I was raised with minorities and have witnessed their struggles

I will never profess to knowing how they feel. It would be impossible since I am white. I have felt prejudice against me as a very poor white person raised in an alcoholic family. In a small town that wasn't easy. I was alienated. All that aside I know white privelege helped me overcome and gave me options others don't have. Thank you for your thoughtful response Haveadream. I feel you listened and it means much.

[Haveadream]

190. As Hillary says

there is more that unites us than divides us. Most who have experienced long-standing discrimination and injustice have compassion for others who do as well. We are natural allies and so much stronger for it.

[ALBliberal]

195. She is wise.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

187. Lol. You need to re read my post.

[Person 2713]

128. K

[ehrnst]

78. Thank you. John Lewis, part of the establishment he may be

is bringing the experience gained doing the hard work of social justice in the streets with him into the House.

That is what a revolution looks like.

[Squinch]

132. Yes. I seem to remember him being thrown under the bus during the primary for being establishment.

[ehrnst]

147. Indeed. (nt)

[IronLionZion]

79. That's the default type of people

if someone doesn't know someone's race or gender, they just assume that person must be white and male. Diversity ruins that. This is why Trump wants to make America great again. Things were simpler back in the day when someone could just pat you on the head and call you sugar.

[MrScorpio]

81. Let's not leave out "Columbusing" as well

Where white people all of the sudden "discover" some long practiced cultural aspect of people of color and appropriate it for themselves and believe that they've made that same aspect "better" or "improved" somehow, merely by practicing it.

[ehrnst]

96. Indeed. (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

152. "Why I can't stand white belly dancers".

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/04/why_i_cant_stand_white_belly_dancers/

A good example, right there.

[happyslug]

102. And no one has mentioned the Cotton Gin?

Last edited Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:16 AM - Edit history (1)

In 1793 the widow of America Revolutionary General Nathanial Greene, ask Eli Whitney to come to her plantation in Georgia, where he then invented the cotton Gin. That is the official story. The big question is why would a Connecticut inventor (then working on interchangeable parts) go to Georgia and invent something for a crop you can NOT grow in Connecticut?

First you must remember Greene and his wife were from Connecticut, but moved south when Washington sent Greene to command the Southern Army during the Revolution.

Nathaniel Greene is noted for two things, being denied a commission because he limped on parade, a decision later reversed, and for NEVER winning a battle. Greene defeated the British in the South while losing every battle. Greene is considered one of the greatest generals this country has ever produced, his losses were never fatal and he realized he could defeat the British without winning any battles. Cornwallis and Greene's campaigns against each other are studied to this day as an example of two great Generals fighting each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathanael_Greene

For driving out the British, Georgia gave Greene a Plantation. Nathaniel Greene died in 1786, but his widow continue to run his plantation and invited Eli Whitney to that planation in 1793. In 1794 Eli Whitney is suppose to have invented the Cotton Gin. Some historians doubt this, but also do not doubt Whitney did patent the Cotton Gin. The Cotton Gin's great advantage was it made upland Cotton profitable. Low land cotton had always been profitable for it was easy to remove the seeds from low land cotton (this had been done by machines since at least 500 AD). The key was designing a machine to remove the much harder to remove seeds from Upland Cotton.

Low Land Cotton grows in damp almost swamp land, such land is ready available in India and Egypt and parts of the American South, but most of the South is just not swampy enough for low land cotton. The Cotton Gin permitted rapid removal of seeds from High Land Cotton (Now just called Cotton in the US) and made cotton highly profitable.

Thus while Whitney won the patent, it appears either Greene's Widow or one of her slave actually invented the Cotton Gin and she contacted Whitney to patent it for she did not think that as a woman she could fight to get people to pay her the patent rights.

In simple terms Whitney was hired to not only patent the Cotton Gin but also to enforce that patent (Which he tried to do). The problem was the gin was so simple anyone could make one and did and refused to pay the patent fees. Whitney tried for a couple of years to enforce the patent, but even he could not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_Whitney

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_gin

I bring up the Cotton Gin for it is an early example of a Woman (or an African American) having invented something, but gave it to a white male to patent, for a white male had the time and position to enforce a patent, when African Americans or women could not.

More on Greene's widow, Catharine Littlefield Greene:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharine_Littlefield_Greene

The Wikipedia article downplays her part in the invention of the Cotton Gin, but why else would Whitney be in Georgia? He was NOT that well known as a teacher, to take that job on a plantation, but it would be a good cover story.

Just a comment a lot of women's invention (and other minorities) were attributed to white men simply on the grounds it would be easier for a white man to enforce the invention then a woman or another minority.

[1StrongBlackMan]

114. I could note, literally, hundreds of examples like that ...

even into the 21st Century, only now the courts get involved ... typically, supporting the theft. Google: Super soaker or The matrix

[rjsquirrel]

136. Rock and roll... eom

[BlueMTexpat]

170. Thanks for that background.

That is a very interesting story!

[Number23]

103. Careful! You'll get called more stupid, nasty insults from miserable, nasty people!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

120. Indeed. And not just from the long term trolls.

[riderinthestorm]

115. Bernie Sanders is Jewish and part of a minority oppressed group nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

119. Yes, and this detracts from what I said how?

[riderinthestorm]

121. You seem to be lumping Bernie in with amorphous "white men "

Instead of acknowledging his minority status.

I believe you've reinforced that throughout the course of this thread.

He actually belongs to a historically oppressed, discriminated against, and attempted genocided minority group.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

122. Yes and he should still not be credited with what he did not do

Over women and black men

[riderinthestorm]

123. Ok

There's no getting around the fact that this unprecedented action is occurring after Bernie’s campaign against the status quo in DC.

I fully credit Comgressman Lewis for this action. Full applause!

Why is it so hard to acknowledge that Bernie's hugely successful crazy run at establishment politics might have been a catalyst?

Or are you still bitter about Bernie? Can't give. him anything?

[msanthrope]

142. We give Bernie only what he earned. By merit. His votes against the Brady bill, and his

stance on protective legislation to benefit gun manufacturers are in sharp contrast to his actions today.

We welcome him to the Party, though, however late.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

150. Because Bernie is not even strong on gun control

So this was not his party at all. If this was a mobilization against income inequality, I could agree that he was the catalyst.

This had literally nothing to do with Bernie or his movement.

[riderinthestorm]

153. This is an unprecedented action.

I agree that this is all John Lewis' party. No doubt @ that.

But someone changed the dynamic and showed there's real support for challenging the status quo in Washington. Only one person has been preaching that for the past year - Bernie Sanders.

[obamanut2012]

174. The murders of 49 mostly young hispanic gay men changed the dynamic

This has nothing to do with Bernie.

Good grief.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

185. If Bernie didn't do it, then we have to thank establishment democrats

And we can't have that. So what if it means that we cannot credit a strong black leader in the process of Bernie-washing all activism.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

186. It's called 49 dead gay brown people

[obamanut2012]

173. The murders of 49 mostly young hispanic gay men was the catalyst

Not Bernie's campaign run.

Good lord.

[jack_krass]

231. +1

[ehrnst]

148. Thank you. (nt)

[davidn3600]

127. For christ sakes....

If you want to know why the Democratic party can't ever seem to unite behind any movements anymore...this is a perfect example of why.

I mean there is no way this party, let alone this society, is going to ever make any progress on anything while having this constant obsession over social identity. Seriously....we are trying to have a serious discussion about guns and your biggest concern is the skin color of the person talking? This is supposed to be a political party. We are supposed to be all on the same side. But there is a constant attempt to divide. It's amazing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

129. people giving credit where is due is an issue of fairness. people don't react well to unfairness

additionally discussing racism, even if it makes you uncomfortable, doesn't actually increase the amount of social racism. it just helps some learn how others may interpret their actions.

your desire for unity (which sounds to me more like your desire for silence on issues you don't want to discuss) does not trump my desire for fairness.

[Person 2713]

130. Good answer

[La Lioness Priyanka]

135. Thanks! I appreciate it!

[Squinch]

131. This is the work of John Lewis. John Lewis is the one who has inspired people to this action.

[davidn3600]

134. So all white people should just sit home not agree with him or disagree

Whites should just sit home and watch their reality shows. That way nobody in the morning will be confused that John Lewis inspired this action.

This is like when we had the BLM marches and some people were complaining too many white people were in the protests.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

137. That's completely not at all what I said or suggested

Just don't credit other people with his work. Anyone can show support and should, but don't credit his leadership on this issue to someone else.

[Squinch]

217. They all know that isn't what you said. They have to pretend that's what you said so that they

have something to argue against.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

218. i completely agree.

[ehrnst]

149. Not what was said at all. People giving credit where credit isn't due is the issue. (nt)

[obamanut2012]

175. Pri's OP said nothing at all like that

[La Lioness Priyanka]

189. Some people will deliberately misconstrue things to fit their narrative that all forms of prejudice

Are over, so clearly if we are talking about racism or sexism, we are making shit up to oppress white men.

[Squinch]

215. No, not all white people. I'm a white person. Only the ones who want to say that someone other

than John Lewis created this.

[seaglass]

141. Actually it was Rep Katherine Clark's idea a week ago and she asked John Lewis if he would lead it.

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2016/06/22/rep-clark-joins-house-democrat-sit

Very proud of my MA peeps and of course John Lewis

[Shankapotomus]

145. As a white person I agree that this happens

And not only by race and gender but even by class within white culture...Rich, well-to-do whites with better connections will often get credit or recognition for something another white person with less connections did or thought of first...so I can't imagine what's happening to minorities and women...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

146. Poorer whites are demonized by the elite.

I have never heard before that they are not credited with their achievements, but I believe you that this does affect them as well.

[geek tragedy]

158. even happens to Hillary

Every bad position: she's married to Bill
Every good position: Bernie made her do it.

[ehrnst]

165. It's called whitesplaining, and how anyone could do it to John Lewis is beyond me. (nt)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

180. Yup

[BlueMTexpat]

163. I may have responded to one

of those OPs.

[Haveadream]

181. What is particularly glaring

is the fact that if anything, it is Bernie who has been inspired to his own brand of activism by the civil rights movement and people like John Lewis. Bernie learned how to stand up to the establishment and do "revolutions" from POC.

[Blue_Tires]

191. k+r

[harun]

212. No one credited Bernie for the sit-in. *yawn*

[La Lioness Priyanka]

213. none so blind...

[harun]

216. Democrats are labeled spineless for good reason. Bernie showed some in the Primaries,

hence some thought it forged a path for others to see that standing up could gain popular support.

This isn't about who get's the credit, it's about saying thanks to our leaders who show some courage.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

219. John Lewis has been showing his spine for a VERY VERY long time. Running for president

doesn't make you particularly more courageous.

[totodeinhere]

221. Can you link to some of the comments that unfairly credit white men?

Perhaps I missed it. I don't have enough time to read everything at DU. I think your comment would be more powerful if you supply some specific examples.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

222. no, i wont because it will get this entire thread deleted

you can of course believe that I and every other POC on this thread are lying. that's your prerogative.

[totodeinhere]

229. If there are concrete verifiable examples of this why would the truth be deleted?

I am not accusing anyone of lying. Surely merely asking questions is not the same thing as making accusations.

[William769]

224. As a Gay white male, I am very happy to kick & Recommend!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

225. ...

[lovemydog]

226. Yes it does have a long history.

Thanks for mentioning it LLP.