This comment perfectly explains why Brexit has left the UK's young feeling so devastated

[babylonsister]

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/24/12023544/brexit-uk-young-voters


This comment perfectly explains why Brexit has left the UK's young feeling so devastated

Updated by Libby Nelson on June 24, 2016, 9:22 a.m. ET @libbyanelson



The howl of despair with which global financial markets greeted the United Kingdom’s decision to withdraw from the European Union has nothing on the disappointment and anger of the 48 percent of British voters, many of them young, who wanted to stay.

Until the final days before the referendum, much of the coverage outside of the UK discussed the "Brexit" in economic terms. But particularly for young people in the UK, deciding whether to leave the European Union was a bigger question of national identity, with the "Leave" campaign representing a rejection of immigrants and foreigners and the "Remain" campaign representing a hopeful cosmopolitanism.

Young people told pollsters that they were heavily in favor of remaining, while their elders wanted to leave. And losing is both economically and emotionally devastating. This comment from "Nicholas," a reader of the Financial Times, explains why:

A quick note on the first three tragedies. Firstly, it was the working classes who voted for us to leave because they were economically disregarded, and it is they who will suffer the most in the short term. They have merely swapped one distant and unreachable elite for another.

Secondly, the younger generation has lost the right to live and work in 27 other countries. We will never know the full extent of the lost opportunities, friendships, marriages and experiences we will be denied. Freedom of movement was taken away by our parents, uncles, and grandparents in a parting blow to a generation that was already drowning in the debts of our predecessors.

Thirdly and perhaps most significantly, we now live in a post-factual democracy. When the facts met the myths they were as useless as bullets bouncing off the bodies of aliens in a HG Wells novel. When Michael Gove said, ‘The British people are sick of experts,’ he was right. But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has led to anything other than bigotry?

The quote is going viral on Twitter, perhaps because, more than a chart of falling stock prices, it shows the impact of leaving on those who believed that Britain was better off as a part of Europe, and the way in which the country’s young voters, who overwhelmingly supported remaining, feel they will pay for the decisions of their elders.

[treestar]

1. My understanding is that if in the EU you could go work in any other country

without immigration restrictions. So it's true that it takes that outgoing part of it out and they are stuck in Britain.

Then what will happen to EU people working in the UK - can they keep their jobs or do they have to leave? And then the British who are working in other EU countries will have to go back.

[babylonsister]

2. I honestly don't know; hopefully someone

more knowledgeable can answer your questions.

[brooklynite]

4. That will be part of the two year negotiation afetr Britain invokes Article 50.

[auntpurl]

39. I don't know about you, but I sure prefer to negotiate a trade agreement with

enormous need and little leverage. This is sure to go well.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

65. And this goes to the heart of many issues

"enormous need"

and

"leverage"

what do these things mean???

Ones world view goes on display when you express your relation to these concepts.

Give it a try?

[CaptainTruth]

20. I have a relative who's a VP at a major international bank, in their London office...

A few months ago they held high-level meetings to discuss the fact that depending on what happens, they might move their London operations elsewhere (along with the millions of dollars they pay every year in taxes). High-level employees like VPs will certainly be relocated but local London residents would lose their jobs.

From what he tells me Brexit could be very bad for Britain's economy.

[treestar]

23. Which is strange

Why shoot yourself in the foot? Why did they vote for this? Those who did must think it would improve the economy.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

25. It was bigotry, pure and simple. British right-wingers don't like brown people and they'll...

...ruin their own lives in order to prove it.

[liberal N proud]

27. That is exactly what this is about.

[tblue37]

53. They were confused and misled, as our voters are, by right wing propaganda reinforced by

irresponsible media, to vote against their own best interests in a vote driven largely by nativism and bigotry.

[One_Life_To_Give]

63. Perhaps just their piece of the economy

If it's similar to here in the US. It may be as simple as their jobs are disappearing and the larger international economy is not their concern. Only whether they have a job at their local factory. In a way it's like having something to eat. What matters is you having something and not caring if the 1% have to eat hamburg instead of steak.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

73. lol

one can only hope for such a wonderful thing

[Igel]

21. While it's subject to negotiation, more than just those are affected.

Many have retired to other countries where the pound goes further.

Many own land in other countries.

At the same time, a lot of people object to "brain drains" and such, and think that if you've invested in a population that population should "give back to the community"--by which they mean the local community, not the European Economic Community (as it was once called).

A lot of things that the EUmbrella does can be done by other means. It's just that having set of 27 independent treaties for each of trade, transportation, property rights, education, etc., etc. was unwieldy. It won't be so bad with the UK (or the rump UK) vs the EU, but the more -xits there are, the more it'll be worse than it was in the '50s as far as interlocking and overlapping treaties go.

[Bluzmann57]

40. My Asian Sister in law is in Great Britain

She's married to a now retired British military guy and I believe she's a citizen. But I wonder what will happen to her? She was not born in GB and goes home (to the Philippines) a lot to visit. I wonder if they may restrict her travel now. Going to have to ask her and find out. Inquiring minds want to know. And so do I.

[treestar]

52. Probably OK if she has become a citizen

Trying to cut off immigration usually ends up being limited to the future immigrants.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

75. What would leaving the EU

have to do with traveling to the Philippines?

[Bluzmann57]

79. I don't know

That's what I'm trying to find out.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

80. That's easy

Nothing at all. Since the Philippines are not part of the EU, the UK leaving the EU will have no effect on anyone's ability to travel to the Philippines.

[fasttense]

57. Ok, for you folks who think the EU is all great, imagine it in the US

Imagine the North American Union. The US congress could not control the value and distribution of our money, our trade and our borders. That gets decided by a group that has about 70 persons representing your entire country (about 10 percent of the total seats). In a North American Union, we would probobly get at least a third of the seats, I would think.

Every person who gets into Canada or Mexico gets into the US.

Mexicans and Canadians can come and go from the US without any paperwork or control. We could all go to Canada and use their free healthcare as could People from Mexico and Canada come here and work or use our costly health care.

Do you think any corporation would remain in the US when it would be so much cheaper to move to Mexico for cheap labor or Canada where they don't have to pay for their employees health care?

Now that I think about it, some good could come from a North American Union as long as we don't go for the lowest common denominator like most trade agreements.

[treestar]

61. They must have seen it as being to their benefit

when they created the Common Market. Together it is one big economy, separately a lot of little ones. The US is different - it is big as is, and there is no motive to make a Common Market with any other countries.

[Recursion]

71. You're confusing the Eurozone and the EU. UK kept the Pound the whole time.

The US congress could not control the value and distribution of our money

That's the Eurozone, which the UK wasn't a part of.

our trade and our borders

So I could go live and work in Montreal or Vancouver right now? Sign me up.

[Recursion]

70. Yes, that's the entire point of the EU

I think a lot of DU is confusing it with the Eurozone, which is different, and which the UK wasn't in to begin with.

[DURHAM D]

3. This -

"But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has led to anything other than bigotry?"

[mountain grammy]

11. Yes, indeed!

That is one big, fat, true statement.

[Mopar151]

16. The prevailing culture

Which holds bigotry out as logical, realistic thinking.

[Marcuse]

62. Or as common sense.

[Surya Gayatri]

5. Brings tears to my eyes:

Secondly, the younger generation has lost the right to live and work in 27 other countries. We will never know the full extent of the lost opportunities, friendships, marriages and experiences we will be denied.

[FLPanhandle]

6. A bit of an overreaction though

The US isn't part of the EU but people here live and work all over the world.

If you want to travel, work, and live in another country, it's not hard.

They make it sound like a new Iron Curtain is going up.

[Surya Gayatri]

8. I live now and used to work in France. The free movement of people and goods will be

denied to British youth. It's VERY difficult to get the equivalent of a "green card" in European countries, if you are from the outside.

Just ask Americans who would like to live and work in France.

I remember Brits trying to get "work permits" on the Continent before they joined the EU in 1975.

[philosslayer]

83. My (american citizen) niece lives and works in Germany

It's really not all that difficult.

[Surya Gayatri]

84. It is VERY difficult to arrive alone, on your own volition, and to find a job legally.

If you are transferred by an American or international company to their European subsidiary, that's another matter.

And, you can't get a residence permit if you don't have a legal job. Catch 22.

I know what I'm talking about. Mine was the first track.

[angrychair]

18. It is very hard

For non-EU members to travel, much less work, in EU nations. You have to apply for a visa to travel, which cost money and takes time.
Right now a British citizen gets on a train and travels to Italy just like you, for the most part, would going from FL to NY.

Now?

That person will need a entry and exit visas and other paperwork for every country he is traveling through to get to Italy. Just traveling became dramatically more complicated and expensive than it was yesterday.

Working and living in another EU nation?

Right now they are free to travel to, go to school (often for free or near-free as EU citizens) and get a job in any EU nation.

As a non-EU nation?

No. Apply for a work visa, you have to have a job skill they need or have a shortage. You have to prove a specific competence in the host nation's native language and prove a means to support yourself.
You will now have to pay non-EU resident rates for taxes and going to universities.

Any British citizens going to college or wanting to go to college in a EU nation is about to become very disappointed and pay a significant amount more money.

[Crepuscular]

41. ...

your concerns are largely overblown. It's highly unlikely that UK citizens will be required to get entry and exit visa's for traveling in EU countries, just like US citizens do not need visa's to travel in Europe. Those are the sorts of terms that will be negotiated in the withdrawal from the EU and it's likely that there won't be a significant number of changes, in terms of traveling and work between the UK and EU member countries. The notion that the UK will now be some isolated Island, like North Korea is hyperbole.

[hueymahl]

74. Agreed. Lots of Chicken Little posts on here about Brexit

Mostly folks are just citing whatever scare-fact that is being used by the stay camp (same thing going on with the leave camp too).

Brett complicates a lot in the short term. In the long term, it may be better for or it may be worse than the status quo. GB and Europe have fighting like brothers and sisters for centuries. They will work out a new peace before the next family reunion. And the sky definitely will not fall.

[Surya Gayatri]

85. No, those concerns are perfectly justified. After yesterday's emergency

meeting, EU authorities confirmed that all British citizens' EU passports will be revoked, and that they will henceforth have the same foreign status as any other "NON-EU PASSPORT HOLDER" at immigration control. No more privileged fast-track.

UK residents will NO longer be able to travel freely or voluntarily seek employment in EU countries.

You apparently never lived in pre-Schengen Treaty Europe. I did.

[Crepuscular]

87. ...

Those EU authorities are simply blowing smoke, the fact is that the status of UK residents in regards to travel, etc. in the EU, is something that will be negotiated over the next two years, as part of the withdrawal process. We don't know at this point what it will look like but the idea that the UK is going to be some isolated, shunned third world nation as a result of Brexit is pure hyperbole. The EU needs access to the UK's economic markets and not a lot is going to change in that regard.

[Surya Gayatri]

88. Prevailing anti-UK sentiment will lead the EU to make the divorce as costly and onerous as possible.

Not hyperbole, just realpolitik. The EU will act decisively and rapidly to retrench, circle the wagons and expel the dangerous menace from their midst.

The UK's rash and ill-judged move will end up costing them dearly. They will be made to serve as a cautionary tale to discourage any similar attempts by other restive member states.

[Crepuscular]

90. ...

Doubtful. It's a lot of big talk from Brussels but at the end of the day, the EU needs favorable economic relations with the UK and will sign agreements to make that happen. That's assuming that there still is an EU, because it's entirely possible that Brexit will come to be a catalyst for other nations, (Sweden, Austria, etc.) to also bale on being part of a United Europe. Would not at all be surprised if in ten years the EU is reduced to being an economic coalition, as the common market was, without all of the social and governmental infrastructure.

[Surya Gayatri]

91. Today's hard line pronouncements coming from Germany's powerful Minister of Foreign Affairs,

Last edited Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:28 PM - Edit history (2)

Frank-Walter Steinmeier, would seem to run counter to your view.

A third of British businesses are planning immediate cutbacks in hiring and expansion plans in anticipation of a much harsher environment than was thought pre-vote.

Tune in to the BBCs World Service Radio to get first hand accounts.

[aggiesal]

46. Rick's Cafe Americain has 2 exit visas, ...

You'll just have to deal with Captain Renault to get them!!!

[Surya Gayatri]

86. Your points are all absolutely correct. All Continental contacts are about to get

much more complicated and bureaucratic for UK residents.

Euro-hating Brits have been haranging about "bureaucratic Brussels interference" in UK affairs.

Now, they are about to learn what "going it alone" was like 45 years ago, before they begged to join the Euro-family.

[treestar]

19. It'll be a lot harder

and could be impossible as the EU might react that way. Not just any of us can go and live and work in another part of the world - there are going to be restrictions. This was unrestricted.

[davidthegnome]

32. It's hard for some of us.

I guess it depends on your financial status and such, but for me, personally, travelling to, working in, or living in another Country is well beyond my financial means.

[brush]

9. I'm thinking with two years to unravel EU ties the UK, with the negative effect on their . . .

economy, will learn to regret Brexit and call for another vote to rejoin.

The question then will be whether the EU will want the UK back?

[Surya Gayatri]

10. Exactly...they have once again lived up to their historical nickname of "Perfidious Albion".

De Gaulle, for good reason, vetoed their application for membership. It was only after his death that Britain was able to join in 1975.

______________________________

Perfidious Albion

Perfidious Albion is an anglophobic pejorative phrase used within the context of international relations and diplomacy to refer to alleged acts of diplomatic sleights, duplicity, treachery and hence infidelity (with respect to perceived promises made to or alliances formed with other nation states) by monarchs or governments of Britain (or England) in their pursuit of self-interest and the requirements of realpolitik.

Perfidious signifies one who does not keep his faith or word (from the Latin word "perfidia&quot , while Albion is derived from an ancient Celtic name for the British Isles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidious_Albion

[frazzled]

7. "People are sick of experts"

This is the thing that has disturbed me the most even on "our" (supposed) side, in our very own political circus here in the US.

How many times on this board, during the primaries, have I seen ignorant dismissals of the expertise of noted economists, long-time minority leaders, intellectuals, respected journalists ... all branded as part of the "elites" they want to topple. And in order to maintain such stances against expertise and experience, it becomes necessary to fall victim to all kinds of conspiracy theories, and sometimes even to covert racism.

Rejecting expertise as elitism is indeed dangerous, whether it comes from the right or the left. It has always led to trouble of a very major sort.

[Fast Walker 52]

13. indeed...

[mountain grammy]

14. Yeah, that jumped out at me too..

scary stuff. Like rejecting reality.

[Indydem]

15. It is the arrogance of "experts."

This attitude permeates our society.

Experts have, at one time or another, told us that every single thing we do is:

A. Good for us
B. Bad for us
C. The greatest thing ever
D. The worst thing ever
E. The thing that will end mankind

And then, a few years later, had to completely retract their "expert opinion" because new, more accurate science proves that they jumped to a bullshit conclusion, and the opposite was true.

This is why it is so hard to get people to move on Global Warming - they heard the same crap about the ozone hole in the 80's, and it got "fixed."

I just heard an NPR story the other day about studies that showed coffee caused cancer! Now that's all bunk science.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/06/15/481635239/java-lovers-rejoice-coffee-doesnt-pose-a-cancer-risk-who-panel-says

[Fla Dem]

28. It is "getting fixed" because scientists spoke out and action was taken.

"they heard the same crap about the ozone hole in the 80's, and it got "fixed."

Each year during ozone hole season, scientists from around the world track the depletion of the ozone above Antarctica using balloons, satellites and computer models. They have found that the ozone hole is actually getting smaller: Scientists estimate that if the Montreal Protocol had never been implemented, the hole would have grown by 40 percent by 2013. Instead, the hole is expected to completely heal by 2050.


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/ozone-hole-was-super-scary-what-happened-it-180957775/#L3JhJs7W8t5kopXG.99

And if we had stuck our heads in the sand, ignored the experts, what kind of Earth would we be living in now.

Yes, as new technology is developed, (by experts) new information and analysis may debunk or revise previous understanding. But to simply ignore all expert findings because they might be wrong is idiotic.

[brentspeak]

26. You mean the same "experts" who gave us 2008?

The same "experts" who began the offshoring of US industry and the consequent destruction of the American middle class?

The same "experts" who herded us into the Iraq War and followed that up with subsequent ME regime change which has brought about ISIS, not to mention the migration crisis which galvanized Brexit in the first place?

Those experts, you mean?

[KPN]

45. +1!!!!

Too many don't look at the roots when observing a problem. Which I find absolutely mind boggling!

[SMC22307]

78. Exactly. We could spend all damn day on "experts" Bernanke and Greenspan alone.

I'm sick of "experts," too. Must be the Brit in me.

[FighttheFuture]

30. Ask yourself, why do people reject the advice of experts?

Could it be that, for one, there are always "experts" to be found for any side of position? That the media, which is very corporate controlled, will skew which experts" views are presented? This then would lead to a real lack of trust and confusion.

Add to this the fact that people often have a difficult time actually researching and figuring our things for themselves. You see, to be able to do that, you must first have a general opinion and position of what you think is right, what is wrong, and how things should work. You must also be willing to take in new facts to change that opinion over time. Today's society is degrading. It is becoming more tribal and isolated, except for maybe a few positions. That is not good.

Finally, we are sliding into Fascism. Let's face it. People may not understand this, or the reasons for it, but their lifestyle is degrading and choices and hopes are becoming less and less. In essence, while people are not sure why, they do know they are getting fucked in the ass more and more, and lube and kiss are not provided!

So, experts, rather than helping to clarify, are often just another piece of the shit flying around.

[frazzled]

37. I do not agree with you at all.

Most of us have the capacity to distinguish between the media's faux talking heads and people who have real credentials earned through education or work experience ... say, Nobel-Prize winning economists versus minor demagogues spouting vague bromides about corporatism or spreading xenophobic fear. We even have the capacity even to comprehend the opposing positions of experienced, rational Republicans with whom we disagree. They're coherent, at least, even though we may disagree with their basic premises.

We are rational beings. Or rather we are supposed to be. We can figure things out and separate the wheat from the chaff. Education and research and hypotheses and experimentation are the bedrocks of a rational, functioning society. Mistrust of rationality leads to nothing but horrible ends.

Fascism? I don't even think you know what that word means.

We DO live in scary times, however, most of it stemming from zealotry and fear.

[FighttheFuture]

49. I do not share your assessment, obviously. You give way to much credit to people as "rational

beings".

Given the degrading state of our educational system. the lack of opposing viewpoints, as were mandated under the fairness doctrine (thanks Ronnie Raygun), and the corporatism profit driven and ideological bent of almost all of our media today, real facts and honest discussion are hard to come by. Keep in mind many also do not have decent access to the internet, and many who do have no real idea where to go for information. To quell their confusion, they will usually gravitate to what feels right "in their gut". That is not rational, but it is human nature.

Also, you are confusing yourself.

We are rational beings. Or rather we are supposed to be. ... Mistrust of rationality leads to nothing but horrible ends.

I agree with this. You are positing a assertion, and what we should be, and the consequences of not doing it. I am not saying that, however. I am saying that people, in the absence of good facts, or the ability to analyse the facts they have, or have a grounded rational center to lash them to, will go for the gut. We are not as Rational as you think. That can be good, or bad... it really depends on the temperament and social conditioning of the person. I am not filled with hope on that for this country today!

As far as Fascism goes, maybe you can educate us all on "what it means." For myself, I am referring to the rise of corporatism, which Mussolini favored as the corporate groups interacting with the State. The other elements of the State in service to this, and the quelling of dissent and the rise of domination over all, the sick aspects of Nationalism, are not far behind. While we may not be exactly like Italy or Germany, is is more similar than not with these elements and the weakness of our "democracy". even Jimmy Carter calls it an Oligarchy not a Democracy, today.

Still, feel free to argue how many angels are on the head of a pin in your desire to support your disagreement.

[tblue37]

55. +1. The problem with experts is that you need to have a solid, wide ranging foundation

in general knowledge as well as well developed critical thinking skills to assess the credentials of those who are either identified by others or self-proclaimed as experts. Even then accomplishing such an assessment is often difficult and time consuming, because doing so might well involve research of a sort that amounts to an unguided course of study in the subject area(s) involved. Since the study is self-directed, there is no guarantee that you are getting your information from appropriate and trustworthy sources without having someone who better understands it (you know, an "expert" of sorts) to direct your study and fill in where you encounter informational gaps.

Modern life is built on incredibly complex bodies of information and interpretation. No one can master enough knowledge and wisdom in everything to be able to figure out which "experts" to trust in the innumerable fields of study or about the innumerable issues that we must make decisions about. And most of those subjects or issues are so complex that there is frequently honest disagreement among those who are best informed about the matter, and of course there is also plenty of room for those who have dishonest, self-serving motives to muddy the water by pushing misinformation and propaganda.

Besides the fact that information provided by both real and fake experts has often turned out to be wrong, and often disastrously (Viet Nam, Thalidomide, look-say reading programs, and any number of other unfortunate situations), there is also the fact that our population as a whole has been miseducated, relentlessly misinformed and propagandized, distracted by bread and circuses, and kept busy and exhausted by scrambling for economic survival, so they have little time, inclination, or ability to undertake the vetting of the constant streams of advice that flows from the experts in so many important fields and about so many important issues.

-------
ON EDIT: Don't forget, either, that our whole culture encourages people to believe that their opinion on ANY subject is just as good as anyone else's, no matter how little they know about the subject.

[Recursion]

72. Because people are resentful of people smarter than they are (nt)

[brentspeak]

81. So you must be pi$$ed off all the time. n/t

[Odin2005]

50. And this is why we get people trusting crackpots rather that doctors in health matters.

Doctors used to be deeply respected to the point that people reflexively obeyed them, now doctors are just another part of "The Man".

[ljm2002]

77. The problem, though, is that it's the experts...

...who get us into unwinnable wars, who create policies that benefit the rich while hollowing out the middle class, who push for austerity for the masses after making the banksters whole, who tell us that the ACA is the very, very best they could ever be expected to do, while health care costs go up and people can't use the insurance they have.

In other words, that vaunted "expertise" serves no one but... you guessed it... the 1%, the elites, i.e. the experts themselves. But not the great unwashed. And the great unwashed have noticed, and they are now making their voices heard in the ways that are open to them.

If the experts were doing a better job for most of us, we all wouldn't be so sick of them.

[Fast Walker 52]

12. same old shit, conservative parochialism and BS wins again

[procon]

17. "post-factual democracy"... OMG, that's us!

Ominous words for the EU that fits us to a T, and looking at how popular Trumps isolationists, anti-immigrant views are, we aren't that far behind. When it comes to voting against their own self interests, the misinformed citizens the GB voters are amateurs compared to far too many Americans, and unfortunately we can't even dismiss the lot of them as crazy right wingers. The factions that supported BREXIT, those brave keyboard commandos sallied forth, armed with their cherry picked facts to fuel the hatreds, fears and phobias of people who react, giving way to their emotions instead of doing the hard, critical thinking that allows reason to shape good judgement.

[malthaussen]

22. I find one juxtoposition intriguing...

... while the corporations, ruling class, and governments move farther along the spectrum of globalization, which lines their pockets at the expense of their former "people," the movements to fragment and disunite large polities/alliances grows stronger among those who are most harmed by that disunity. The two rather elegantly feed off each other to create an even greater divide between the rulers and the people ruled.

-- Mal

[eppur_se_muova]

24. Actions have consequences ...

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... but if you're not going to be around to face them for long, thoughtless decisions are easier.

[Cosmocat]

43. Very unfortunate

thank you for sharing.

[treestar]

54. very pronounced

the older you are the more you want to leave. Interesting. Maybe the older ones recall the day before the EU and think it will be the same.

[eppur_se_muova]

69. "Let's make Great Britain great again !"

"Idiot, it's already great -- it's in the name, innit ?"

[roomtomove]

29. This is all BS.....

Everyone is SO OVERREACTING...I think the sheeples have been prodded by MSM.

This good for Britain ultimately

And bad for globalism and corporate dictatorship.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

33. Wrong. It was about immigration and bigotted ignorant people against multiculturalism

Think again who the "sheeples" are.

Brexit will not change immigration, multiculturalism, or social liberalism.

[lunatica]

42. It's Jingoism

[roomtomove]

56. I stand by my comment....

Globalization and corporate dictatorship are inherently not sustainable ideologies. Take all the polls you want, the sheeples just don't understand. They gave us Nixon, Reagan, and two Bushes. I rest my case.

[KittyWampus]

31. Did those young voters actually bother to show up and vote?

[davidthegnome]

34. Well...

There are experts and there are experts. A lot of those you might see appear on CNN, Fox, or even MSNBC, are referred to as "experts", because someone (or some group/corporation) is willing to pay for their opinion. We've got so called experts who constantly rant about issues in which they have received little to no education, in which they have little to no experience or knowledge of. Consider, for instance... "educational administrators" who have no actual teaching experience experience and very limited administration experience... who tell us they know exactly what is right for American education. It's possible I'm referring to someone in particular there...

So when someone tells me someone is an expert, I wonder what makes them so. That is a word that is often misused. A skilled tradesperson who is a master of their craft - that's an expert. A scientist who has spent their life studying the effects of climate change, plant and animal life, or what have you... that's an expert. A teacher who has served their community for decades and has a deep wealth of knowledge - that's an expert.

Political commentators in general? Not so much. Various wealthy elites? Not so much. People who have spent the time, effort and money to earn an education in economics or what have you... may also be experts. The problem is that the word is so frequently misused to refer to people who really... haven't got a damned clue.

[niyad]

35. makes me want to cry.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. Our parents insist on leaving the world the way they left it....

That way a new generation could take up the whine about how crappy it is.

[elleng]

38. 'But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism

has led to anything other than bigotry?'

Here it comes!

[KPN]

47. Key phrase in the quote from the young Brit:

"A quick note on the first three tragedies. Firstly, it was the working classes who voted for us to leave because they were economically disregarded"

Ignoring the experts and bigotry are just upshots. Ignore the working class as we are today and there is hell to pay.

Think we will learn from this? Not if the monied interests have leaders' ears; and it sure seems like they already own their souls. Will our party learn from this? I wonder.

[Odin2005]

51. British Boomers better pray their infuriated kids don't leave them to die on an ice floe.

[Hestia]

58. There will still be ice floes? n/t

[Odin2005]

59. Oh, good point...

[awoke_in_2003]

60. America in a nutshell

"Prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has led to anything other than bigotry"

[One_Life_To_Give]

64. Have the children really lost a sense of who they are?

They will have to learn about this and perform HMS Pinafore then.
I suspect their parents will recognize her in an instant.



For us Yanks here. This is Lord Nelsons Flagship at Trafalgar, HMS Victory.

[TheKentuckian]

66. I thought the "consensus" was fuck the kids they are ignorant, free stuff hungry slackers who will

grow out of it when they get jobs, have families, and maybe start voting?

[drokhole]

67. The age demographic breakdown seemed to very closely mirror that of the Democratic primary.

And it would appear our nation's youth feels the exact same way.

[libdem4life]

68. I see many similarities. .. unfortunately.

[Kilgore]

76. Don't get it. Travel has not been restricted

Why the angst and woe about travel? It's not like an iron curtain is going up. Yes, not using a passport is convenient, but having to use one is not an impediment to travel either.

[Recursion]

82. The EU is not a visa regime; that doesn't change

You needed a passport to go from England to France and you will after they leave (the visa agreement is Schengen, which the UK is not in, though they have a similar agreement with Ireland).

The difference is that today a Briton can go and reside and work in France without going through the French immigration and residency process. If they leave the EU, that will no longer be true.

[kiva]

89. Unfortunately the young voters didn't come out

in the numbers that older voters did. I'm not being snarky or blaming millennials, but the truth is in the numbers - about 75% of young people and about 45% of older (50 and up, I think) people voted to stay; if the younger voters had come out in the same percentage as their parents and grandparents, the vote would have been different.

It really baffles me that anyone would not vote in this election - all of my British friends (and non-citizens who live there) posted about this for weeks before the election, videos and charts and articles that showed what would happen if Brexit passed.