I Lost $7,000 Today and Trump is Gloating About It

[louis c]

I have about $220,000 in a 401K retirement account after 22 years of work.

Today I estimate that I lost $7,000 because of the Brexit vote. I know that the account is subject to the ups and downs of the market.

But how many Americans in my place enjoy watching Trump gloat about it?

[Scientific]

1. Republican Chump-in-Chief Trump sneers at the Little People who lost

[L. Coyote]

5. Wow, those are tiny hands.

[Shrike47]

10. Especially in front of that big belly.

[IrishEyes]

28. Tiny hands.

Tiny heart.

[ToxMarz]

31. He never wears shorts

I bet he has cankles.

[niyad]

2. so sorry to hear that. many are going to be quite surprised at how this affects them here.

(not to mention the folks who voted for something they didn't understand)

[louis c]

7. Don't feel sorry

I'm lucky to have that kind of savings.

But still, no one likes somebody gloating when they've lost any money.

[Maraya1969]

3. A trump presidency would be the US's Brexit.

[fleabiscuit]

50. +1

[L. Coyote]

4. Trump probably bet on the pound crashing.

[7962]

51. "Soros looks set to make a killing on Brexit result"

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/soros-looks-set-to-make-a-killing-on-brexit-result-2016-06-24
Soros is famous for breaking the Bank of England — and lining his pockets — in 1992 with a bet against the British pound, which resulted in sterling’s ejection from the European exchange-rate mechanism.

I despise large short sellers. Regardless of any assurances that it doesnt happen, they CAN & DO manipulate prices. It should be illegal. If you think a stock is over valued, then buy Put options.

[unblock]

78. what morality does a put option buy you??

buying a put option is, in and of itself, safer than short-selling in the sense that the loss is limited to the amount you put in.

i'm not clear on how that financial advantage translates into a moral one.

if you have a problem with short-selling, why don't you have the same problem with buying put options?

[7962]

80. Because the put option gives you the ability to buy shares later at the lower price

As opposed to affecting the price NOW by selling a ton of shares. You & I would have little to no effect. But people like Soros, Shkreli, etc, have an INSTANT impact on a stock price when they sell a large block of shares short. Believe me, I was a victim of Shkreli years before anyone here ever heard of him. I've always thought someone should grab him off the street and beat the shit out of him. Its very easy to short a lot of shares, then come make a public statement that XYZ company is way over valued, or allege fraud, or some other such BS. Shkreli was a master at it. And when his followers would see him short a stock, they'd do the same. A company that isnt highly traded can be devastated by this action.
But buying the put option still allows you to take advantage of actual issues that will affect the stock without crushing it by dumping shares. Other MAY follow you, but the action isnt instant and doesnt have the same effect on a share price.
Small investors wont have any impact, but when a Soros shorts a million shares, the price WILL go down. And not only is it not fair, its actually legal manipulation.
Buying options still allows you to profit if your opinion of the stock being over priced was correct. If their earnings are bad, or a drug doesnt get approved, or whatever, the price will drop on its own.

[unblock]

84. the effect on the market is immediate for options as well.

as soon as you try to buy massive amounts of put options, the price of the stock will drop.
the exact effect does depend on the how in- or out-of-the-money the option is, but the effect on the market is immediate.

and as a practical matter, if you want to short something massive like 5% of the total float, you might not be able to find that kind of interest in the options market at all.

[scscholar]

54. I can't believe anyone would vote for him after wearing a "Make Me Great Again" hat.

That' is terrible.

[L. Coyote]

58. That's PhotoShopped.

I just deleted four letters. There are a few versions afloat. I like "Make America Mexico Again" in particular.

That would place Trump's wall somewhere just west of New Orleans, and it would reach to Port Orford, Oregon.
And all those Texas racists would be Mexicans.

[XRubicon]

6. If you didn't sell you lost nothing.

You have "about $220,000" in notional money. You may sell it for more, you may sell it for less.

It is really not valued until you get someone to buy it for a set price, that is how much it is worth.

If you sold it today you would have"lost $7000" versus what you thought you could sell it for yesterday.

[Travis_0004]

9. Agreed

You had unrealized gains, and maybe some unrealized losses.

Meanwhile, I shorted the pound and made 1k. I've already sold, so the gains are set in stone.

[louis c]

12. I get that.....

but nobody likes somebody else gloating when they lose any money.

The downturn is a direct result of the British vote. The market could continue in a downward spiral that could cut that savings in half. I'm 63 years old and nearing retirement.

It may be a "blip", but it may not.

The point is, Trump is gloating and others are losing. He says that this is "good for his business". He said that today.

It doesn't matter to me, I hate him anyway. I just thought that there may be others in my position who are on the fence who may think that it's sickening to see him gloat over their losses and anxiety.

[XRubicon]

16. I hate Don the Con.

All I'm saying is don't panic, I think this is small.

[spanone]

17. i have money in the market too, i loathe the bastard. not a shred of empathy or intelligence.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

22. At 63 and close to retirement

you shouldn't have very much invested in stocks.

If I were you, I would watch it go back up, and then move it to more stable investments within the 401(k).

[Curmudgeoness]

33. That is not always the case.

I am retired, and I still have a large percent of my IRA in stocks and index funds. The thing is that you will not need all of your savings at one time, so you still have time to weather these financial market storms. Just make sure that you have possibly five years of money that you will need in that time invested in more liquid, less risky investments.

I was told that by a financial planner, and it made so much sense...I had never thought that way. Probably because the media is always harping about how you should have your retirement money in "safe" investments when you are close to retiring. It doesn't really make sense, especially with today's interest rates.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

49. We'll have to agree to disagree

No way would I have anything more than a nominal amount of money in stocks if I were near or in retirement.

And that's not the media telling me that, it's my financial advisor.

[belcffub]

61. if you can have five years of money in safe investments

there is no reason not to have the rest in stocks... look back at past downturns and you'll see that if you can keep five years secure you can weather the storms and come out stronger when conditions improve...

[Ilsa]

48. True, but some of us are trying to catch up from

The last disaster when we lost 40%.

Geez, I wish we had pensions.

[newthinking]

36. Not to mention there surely **will** be another very large "correction" at some point

you can guarantee it. With automated trading and the pre-access that some institutions have this is now a "feature" of the market.

I would always be careful to have some of one's retirement in safe investments.

[No Vested Interest]

8. Think of those retiring at the end of the month, for example.

For those that can wait, we know that the markets will recover, over time.
But some are not in a position to wait for recovery, for one reason or another.

This is also the main reason Social Security should not ever be privatized. - Too much risk for those unable to afford the buffets of the stock market.

[former9thward]

19. If you are retiring athe end of the month

you are not going to be cashing out your entire savings or even a significant amount. That would be tax insanity.

[No Vested Interest]

62. True, one would not cash out one's entire saving, but one may wish or need

to sell in order to diversify within a retirement program.

My spouse received all retirement funding in company stock. Obviously, one doesn't want all eggs in one basket; must diversify for long-range protection.
Doubt that this is a unique situation.

[doc03]

82. I retired in 2009 at the bottom of the market, luckily I have a DB pension and didn't have to rely

on my IRA for income. Unlike many of my co-workers and (expert?) investment gurus here on DU I didn't sell
out. I left the money in the market and have a balance about double what it was then and the last 3 years I have
withdrawn $12000 a year. I am 68 now and carry about 44% in equities and 56% in fixed income.

[swhisper1]

20. so very true. I pulled mine just before the housing crash. I knew it was coming and I am too old to

I have never been a gambler

[Recursion]

75. They won't be in equities, and this is why (nt)

[63splitwindow]

11. Another thing that would make him happy...

would be if you had some property foreclosed upon that he could scarf up. He ACTUALLY said that and dumbshits still support him...

[spanone]

13. he only cares about himself. nothing else.

[former9thward]

14. Did you cash out today?

Then you lost nothing. It will go back up. Brexit will have no long term meaning for the U.S. economy. I wonder what you are investing in that you lost that much. I have far more than your account and I lost $1300.

[Barack_America]

18. You did well. Even $7000 on an index fund is not bad today.

I lost less, but at a higher clip (damned biotech!).

Could be worse. I know people who literally lost millions today.

[former9thward]

21. I hold a Gold ETF which went up about 5% today.

Acts as buffer on days like today. Also hold municipal debt which also went up. Investors fleeing to safety.

[Kingofalldems]

45. I can only guess you missed the point.

[louis c]

64. Thank you for understanding the point

In the market and the real estate crash in 2008-2009, people's home values plummeted.

If you remained in your home, it was of no financial consequence if you could maintain your mortgage payments. However, the feeling of wealth and security affected the consumer confidence of home owners and investors. If an individual had a mortgage of $250,000 and the home value went from $280,000 to $200,000, that person lost confidence, even though he wasn't selling. At that point, his potential loss of employment meant he had no safety net. Same thing with a 401K. In turbulent times, the feeling of security can have a tremendous effect on the overall economy, since confidence is a major part of the economic health of a nation.

So, my point is, that to have a potential President gloating over the misfortune of others, should have a debilitating effect on his election chances.

I hope you understand my point, now.

[Kingofalldems]

70. Oh yes, I got it right away.

[swhisper1]

15. you should be highly offended, and your 401K will return if you can wait for markets to level off

next time pull it out before a vote, you can always reapply later

[Fritz Walter]

23. I tried to make this point elsewhere on DU

A 3.6% drop today in index-linked investments is significant for those who have defined-benefit -- AKA 401(K) -- or IRA accounts, which have been shamelessly hawked to USA's middle-class, working stiffs, including yours truly.

Another maxim that has been shoveled into our faces is that retirees should plan on withdrawing no more than 2% a year of these investments. Therefore, a 3.6% drop essentially wipes out ~20 months' worth of income. All because some Limey bastards decided they didn't like the skin color of refugees washing up on their shores.

So, where do we make up this loss?
• Lotto tickets?
• Collecting aluminum and other metals for recycling?
• Selling plasma?
• Moving into "grandma" suites into their kids' over-mortgaged McMansions?
Not. Bloody. Likely!

Fuck not-so-Great Britain and her low-information voters -- who are just now Googling "EU" ex post facto. It's about dog-damned time the sun set on this empire.

[yeoman6987]

57. That is highly exaggerated. So Monday when the market is back

What will you do with the extra money? You should be up significant this year. You lost nothing unless you sell. Basically you lost gains that you did not put into the market with your own money.

[doc03]

83. The 401K and the IRA are not defined benefit plans they are defined

contribution plans. Defined benefit plans are the pensions most people had before Ronald Reagan had the pension funds classed as an asset instead of a liability. That is what triggered the demise of the traditional pension.

[Warpy]

24. You should get it back over the next few weeks. Today was Chicken Little Day

at the stock market, Chicken Littles all being terrified of any change on any part of the planet.

Next week might be a tough one or it might not, once Chicken Little wakes up and realizes how much money he threw away.

[liberal N proud]

29. Meanwhile the funds that were in our accounts are in some one else's account

Earning money.

IF we get it back, we still have lost the earnings over that period that our accounts are down.

[Warpy]

34. It doesn't work like that

That $7000 is paper profit that evaporated into thin air. Unless you panicked and sold that much of your portfolio, you haven't really lost a thing but a number on some paper, and that number should go back to what it was over the next few weeks. Nobody else really got your money, it's just gone. You can leverage about $14,000 less than you could on yesterday morning, that's the big change.

That's why the stock market is a casino and why we need to keep retirement out of it. No one has a guarantee of retiring just at the peak of the market and cashing out in an opportune manner. Paper value isn't something that can be counted on.

What can be counted on as long as the economy is still functioning are the dividend payouts, things that are assigned per share and not per share paper value.

[shadowmayor]

25. 401K is Reagan speak for pensions

To tie American retirements to the market is insanity, yet we are conditioned to accept what was shoved up our noses in the 80's. What a horrible idea, and the fact that each person gets to "manage" their money makes it all the less reliable. How many folks jumped into foreign accounts with their 401's right before the Brexit? Some lost a considerably larger amount today. And fuck tRump with a prickly pear!

[IronLionZion]

37. It benefits the financial industry and those who know about finance

which I would encourage everyone to read up on the basics of investing. But for most Americans, it is best to just invest in a broadly diversified index fun and continue to put more in automatically from every paycheck no matter what the market is doing. It's best to not even think about the market.

That includes people who were retiring during the 2008 market crash. They would have made it back in a few years if they minimized what stocks they sold, had a large percentage in bonds (which any elderly person should), relied on social security, and lived very frugally as the markets came back up and beyond.

If they had the knowledge to stick their money into a target retirement date fund, then the fund's managers would have been shifting more investments from high-risk to low-risk every few years as they got older and closer to retirement. That would minimize losses during a crash.

[shadowmayor]

47. But maybe the whole model is wrong

Emphasizing Wall Street recovery over Main Street recovery is partly why we're in such a mess. And by having so many of us forced into 401K's, people are more amenable to fixing Wall Street because of their money worries. In the USA, Social Security is still the primary source of retirement age income for over half of our retirees. People with over 100,000 dollars in their 401K are growing, but not the bottom half of our country. The whole 401K racket is another system of divide and conquer, to make some more have nots and a few haves. It's fundamentally what's wrong with our nation.

[louis c]

67. By the way, I have a pesion AND a 401K

of course I have to work another 5 years, but I really enjoy my job.

[Major Nikon]

73. American retirements have always been tied to the markets

Where do you think pension funds were and still are invested?

Looking at short term losses in the market as "losing money" is what causes people to poorly manage their retirement accounts. The market is a long term investment strategy, especially when it comes to retirement accounts.

[IronLionZion]

26. Trump is gloating because he buys when the market crashes

like he bought a lot of real estate after the crash a few years ago. He buys when there's blood in the streets, even if it's his own blood.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/08/contrarian-investing.asp

If you have a 401K then you are probably automatically buying some every paycheck right? this is the least stressful way to invest for retirement. Don't worry about day to day market fluctuations or you'll drive yourself crazy, like many do. Having this plan already puts you ahead of most of America.

Keep a diversified portfolio, have a plan, and re-balance your portfolio maybe twice a year to make sure you are in line with your plan. And then enjoy life.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp

[7962]

44. Good advice.

[liberal N proud]

27. People like Trump are the winners when everyone else loses.

I can't even look at mine for fear of what I lost.

[Curmudgeoness]

30. You lost nothing unless you sell.

Don't sell now. Just ride the roller coaster.

[Press Virginia]

32. You didn't actually lose a penny. In fact you've seen an increase

in your ability to buy more stocks at a lower price. When the value rises, back to what it was yesterday, you'll have actually made money

[louis c]

66. Here's the point

In the market and the real estate crash in 2008-2009, people's home values plummeted.

If you remained in your home, it was of no financial consequence and could maintain your mortgage payments. However, the feeling of wealth and security affected the consumer confidence of home owners and investors. If an individual had a mortgage of $250,000 and the home value went from $280,000 to $200,000, that person lost confidence, even though he wasn't selling. At that point, his potential loss of employment meant he had no safety net. Same thing with a 401K. In turbulent times, the feeling of security can have a tremendous effect on the overall economy, since confidence is a major part of the economic health of a nation.

So, my point is, that to have a potential President gloating over the misfortune of others, should have a debilitating effect on his election chances.

I hope you understand my point, now.

[busterbrown]

35. We’ve seen this before..

It was worse 10 yrs ago.. Markets will rebound... I use this as a buying opportunity for one of my favorite stocks..Bought it at $25 12 years ago was 50 yesterday. 44 today, bought 150 shares today.

You’ll be fine..

[louis c]

68. the point is

that Americans have anxiety over today's events and Trump is gloating.

I understand the financial markets.

my point is political, not financial.

[redstatebluegirl]

38. So many people with pensions have no idea where the money is.

In fact it is invested in the markets in most cases. I took a peek at ours this afternoon and wanted to cry. I know it goes up and down, but the closer to retirement you are the more it effects you, it takes a while to recover. We took a beating in 2007-2008 and now this nonsense.

Lots of his supporters lost money, they are just so dumb they don't realize it.

[7962]

43. The older you get, the less "in the market" you should be.

You say you "took a beating"in 07-08; but if you didnt sell, you're up 300% since then.
And if you're 60ish, you need to be reducing what you have in the market a little every year

[BerningForYou]

46. Unless they sold, his supporters did not lose money either.

And as people approach retirement (or are in retirement), the large bulk of their money should not be exposed to more volatile investments. They should not be *affected*. As noted by others, hang tight and buy a little on the dip if you can. This is all a complete non-issue.

[Redford]

39. Reminds me of my favorite movie "It's a Wonderful Life"

"Potter isn't selling, He's buying. Why? Because we are panicky and he is not"

I can't wait to start buying on Monday.

[Fritz Walter]

40. So, where can I buy some of the swastika golf balls?

I'd like to drop one or two into the local Drumpf campaign office mail slots. Just for shits-and-giggles. And to watch their local spokes-lizard rant and rave about how they are being persecuted here.
And then I'd toss a couple of them into the yards sporting Drumpf yard signs. Just to give them apoplexy.

[MerryBlooms]

41. Unless you panicked and sold, no you didn't...

Long term investors will be fine. This will all even out... no worries.

[L. Coyote]

59. "This will all even out... no worries."

Yeah, tell that to the people who lost it all last time.

[7962]

42. You only lost if you sold. Where was it a few months back when we were @15K?

Less than today.
It will come back. I bet 1/2 of todays losses were simply because people were TOLD there would be a big drop. Self fulfilling prophecy. The market always over reacts

[AnnieBW]

52. I e-mailed my financial advisor this morning

First thing. He was actually my mom and dad's financial advisor, because he worked with my mother at the bank that she retired from. He said not to do anything knee-jerk. Wait a week or two before moving money around. Hopefully, this will sort itself out by then. So, that's the advice that I'd offer to anyone with money in the market. Just wait and see what happens in the next two weeks before making any moves.

[L. Coyote]

60. If you have dollars, invest in pounds now. Buy low and sell high.

[CincyDem]

53. I agree with the sentiment...

...and today's close was about the same as the May 19th close. The market went up over the past month, in part, based on the general consensus that Remain would win. The prediction wasn't true and those who bet on Remain got punished for it.

That said, nothing really changed except that paper value - for you and just about everyone one else (except those unlucky few stupid enough to bet with margin/borrowed money - they be in a hell of a hurt place right now).

Market will be back to business as usual mid next week - bouncing between 1980-2080 with an occasional test +/- 50 points either way for chit and giggles.

To be clear, in spite of the paper vs. real loss associated with this...Trump is still an asshat for gloating about it. I think it's funny he didn't mention losing any money today. Probably because he doesn't have any.

[louis c]

69. You understand my point

Thank you

[ozone_man]

55. Market is way over priced.

Corrections occur when that happens, events often being the precipitant.

A 50% correction in 2008 was impressive. Big banking, and loose regulation were to blame, for example, Clinton signing away Glass-Steagall in 2000.

I wouldn't worry about a 5% correction, but I would also not be invested in stocks right now.

[yeoman6987]

56. Did you sell???????

That is the only way you lost a dime.

[louis c]

63. Consumer Confidence

In the market and the real estate crash in 2008-2009, people's home values plummeted.

If you remained in your home, it was of no financial consequence if you could maintain your mortgage payments. However, the feeling of wealth and security affected the consumer confidence of home owners and investors. If an individual had a mortgage of $250,000 and the home value went from $280,000 to $200,000, that person lost confidence, even though he wasn't selling. At that point, his potential loss of employment meant he had no safety net. Same thing with a 401K. In turbulent times, the feeling of security can have a tremendous effect on the overall economy, since confidence is a major part of the economic health of a nation.

So, my point is, that to have a potential President gloating over the misfortune of others, should have a debilitating effect on his election chances.

I hope you understand my point, now.

[yeoman6987]

71. I do. Thank you.

I am confident that trump will not be president. America is not 1980 by any stretch of imagination the cons want to think.

Thank you for the reply. It does make sense.

[hobbit709]

65. I lost nothing because I have nothing.

I took the last $3000 I had in my IRA out last year.

[RussBLib]

72. I lost $30k

in one fucking day. The day before, the markets rallied big and we made $12k. All gone, and then some, the next day.

I'm nauseous. But I'm sure the rich are salivating over the bargains they may be able to scoop up now.

[Johonny]

74. If the polls show Trump with any shot come Oct 1st I'm out

not only of the market, but US $$. He's Brexit on a whole different level of suck.

[JustAnotherGen]

76. I lost just under 12K

Two years profit sharing when you break it down.

Fuck Trump!

[benld74]

77. I didnt lose anything THIS TIME

Back during W crash, our daughter's college fund lost over 50K.

If I hadn't cashed it out and placed it safe it would have tanked completely.

Thanks W

Sorry about al the losses suffered by others.
I know how that feels,,,,

[Rex]

79. Trump will never be POTUS. Ever.

He is a pox on humanity.

[doc03]

81. I lost roughly the same on paper yesterday, I could have reached through the TV

yesterday and choked that asshole.