3-year-old drowns in swimming pool at baby sitter’s home

[Kang Colby]

A 3-year-old girl drowned Thursday morning in her baby sitter’s backyard swimming pool, Wichita police said.

The child was playing in the backyard of the sitter’s house in the 1400 block of South Sedgwick, near Harry and Meridian, police said. A 5-year-old also was playing in the backyard at the time.

The 3-year-old managed to get into an above-ground pool that was about 4 feet high. She was pronounced dead at the scene, according to Wichita police Sgt. Nikki Woodrow.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article85518697.html#storylink=cpy

We need a national dialogue on common sense pool safety reforms. Too many children parish each year, due to careless parents and child sitters. Each year, approximately 765 children 14 and under drown in non-boating accidents, compared to the 65 who die from accidental firearm discharge. We need a national dialogue so that we can raise awareness about these backyard killing machines.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

[newthinking]

1. Life includes risk. We can't completely eliminate accidents

By constantly looking for the next thing to regulate we would end up eliminating everything and eventually relegating everyone to their couch and tv?


Education is good though.

[Kang Colby]

2. Pools offer nothing more than recreation and death. n/t

[newthinking]

11. so do swimming holes, hell, hiking and walking outside offer recreation and potential death

"backyard killing machines" is hysteria.

[Kang Colby]

13. Look at the statistics. Pools are too dangerous.

There is no need for people to own a pool in their backyard. Life guards on duty to swim needs to be a national requirement. Anyone can fall victim.

[newthinking]

17. Your pool analogy doesn't work. I can't take my pool with me to your house and cause you to drown.

And we don't make pools that are for the intention of drowning people.

Seriously.... this falls flat.

[Kang Colby]

20. See post 18. n/t

[pnwmom]

23. You could invite people to your home where they could be at risk from your pool.

How would you feel if a two year old slipped away when you and the parent got distracted for a few seconds, and, after a thorough search of the house, you finally found him underneath the pool cover, blue and floating in the water?

Would you just say, Oh well, accidents happen?

It happened to someone I know. This kind of accident is not infrequent. Why would anyone object to finding a way to reduce children's drownings?

[newthinking]

25. This is a trolling post about guns.

Read it with that in mind.

[Kang Colby]

34. No it's not.

I've always advocated for better pool safety requrements. pnwmom is absolutely right. Something needs to be done.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. Yeah, it is.

[Paladin]

64. You're fooling absolutely nobody. (nt)

[LanternWaste]

73. I imagine a handful of people may even believe you to be sincere in your allegations.

I imagine a handful of people may even believe you to be sincere in your allegations.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

80. Pool is the first place I'd look.

[pnwmom]

81. Maybe not, in the dead of winter. Everyone had been inside and he didn't

leave the door open.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

83. I would.

When my youngest was three or four he vanished. I knew, like most little boys, he was fascinated with water, so I sprinted across the pasture to a large livestock trough to see if he'd been playing with it and fell through the ice. I look in the most dangerous place first. Same with the dogs. I check cars to see if they are locked inside in the summer, then start calling them other places. You don't have time to waste looking other places when theres heat or water that can kill them first.

[pnwmom]

84. But the visiting family didn't know there was a covered pool in the backyard. n/t

[Boudica the Lyoness]

85. How awful. That's the problem when you are visiting.

You don't know about any nasty dogs, weapons etc.

I'm a worrywart as you can tell.

[pnwmom]

87. The good news

is that because it was winter the water was very cold. Because of that, the child was successfully resuscitated and didn't sustain any permanent damage.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

88. Thanks for telling me that.

Good to hear.

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. LIFE offers nothing more than recreation and death.

[Kang Colby]

45. Wrong.

You forgot all the hardwork that most of us take on.

[cherokeeprogressive]

48. No one forces us to work.

[Kang Colby]

49. That's true. We do it to thrive and survive.

[bravenak]

50. Pretty much

[Logical]

89. Lol, coming from someone who promotes guns! Classic. Nt

[PersonNumber503602]

4. I don't think this thread has anything to do with "pool control"

[Kang Colby]

6. Clearly we need it. n/t

[newthinking]

12. We need backyard pool control? Are you being serious?

Maybe the government should just place cameras on our properties to make sure that we never have an accident.

No thanks.

[Kang Colby]

19. If it only saves one life, it would be worth it. n/t

[Angel Martin]

26. what about bathtubs ?

they are deadly as well. In every drowning death, the manufacturer and the installer and the builder of the house must be held responsible.

[Beaverhausen]

3. Sorry but this is the babysitters fault

3 year olds need to be watched all the time.

[Kang Colby]

5. But if she didn't have a pool, this wouldn't have happened.

Pools are too dangerous, unless you have a full time life guard on duty and even then it is needlessly risky.

[Beaverhausen]

7. Nope

Nothing wrong with the pool. Adults need to watch children around the pool. Human error and a tragic accident.

As opposed to assault rifles functioning perfectly and harming/killing huge numbers of people in a short time. Not an accident.

[Kang Colby]

10. All rifles combined including hunting rifles are involved with less than 400 deaths her year.

Drowning accidents cause nearly 4000 deaths per year. We need to focus our public safety efforts effectively.

[newthinking]

15. so is this a gun point you are trying to make?

The analogy does not work. I can't take my pool into someone elses home and make them drown.

[Kang Colby]

18. No, but an innocent child can wander into your pool.

Why are people so selfish that they think they need a pool in their backyard? If you want a pool hire a life guard.

Public pools have life guards, private pools should too. And locked fences.

[newthinking]

21. This is a silly post

I don't even get involved in the gun discussions on either side.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[Kang Colby]

22. I'm sure I'll be in good company. Private pool ownership should be banned. n/t

[Human101948]

31. I don't know about your state but mine mandates a fence around your pool...

Last edited Sat Jun 25, 2016, 11:25 AM - Edit history (1)

Pools fall under the category of an "attractive nuisance," inviting accidents. A fairly onerous burden for the pool owner, but pool owners comply with the regulation. On the other hand, many gun owners resist any regulation of their weapons and many refuse to employ the simplest safeguards, such as trigger locks.

Your analogy is strained and lame.

[LanternWaste]

74. Or increase the liability of homeowners insurance... which it does.

Or increase the liability of homeowners insurance... which it does.

[MH1]

36. Actually, there are common sense laws for pool control that I would support.

I would probably prioritize my efforts based on the number of senseless deaths from the cause, but anyway here goes -

* all pools must have barriers to entry by small children. Appropriate federal agency to set the specifics. In general, for in-ground pools, a fence with a gate that cannot be easily opened by a child. For above ground pools, the ladder must be made to be pulled up or removed so that it can't easily be used by a child.
* Safe pool use standards state that if a child under a certain age (say 8) is present, then TWO or more adults must be present and responsible. (Why 2? Because one can too easily be distracted from watching the child). Obviously this isn't directly enforceable, but is grounds for a charge of negligence in case of a death or severe injury.


Stuff like that. There's probably more I would support. Yes, backyard pool use could be safer. Even those restrictions wouldn't stop all needless deaths, but could save lives.

[snot]

78. Yes; I know some places do have laws that you can't have a pool

unless the yard is fenced in, and the fence has to meet certain requirements, to prevent neighborhood kids from getting in unless there's an adult there.

[pnwmom]

24. We now design cars around human error. Auto manufacturers used to blame

car owners and road conditions for all accidents, and weren't required to install safety features we take for granted today.

We can take the same steps with pools.

[Kang Colby]

8. The babysitter needs to be prosecuted. n/t

[bravenak]

51. Exactly

[snot]

77. Agreed; how the heck do you leave 3 and 5 yr olds alone w/ a pool that's taller than they are?

[JI7]

9. is there any group out there that is against any regulations of pools

65 die from accidental discharge ? how many die from intentional discharge of firearms ?

[ManiacJoe]

14. Normally the problem pools are the in-ground pools.

[Kang Colby]

16. We need a ban on in-ground pools.

Mr. and Mrs. America fill them up with concrete.

[Just reading posts]

27. And until they're banned, we'll rename them "assault pools".

[LanternWaste]

75. You should begin the movement should your sentiment actually be sincere.

You should begin the movement should your sentiment actually be sincere. Let us know how it goes... we'll be on pins and needles awaiting your reports on its success.

[Enrique]

28. the reason these arguments don't work

is that most other countries do have gun control. You're saying the idea of gun control is inherently ridiculous, but all anyone needs to do is look at what other countries have done and see that the argument is bogus.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Baby gets eaten by dingo...

[Recursion]

30. We've had a fairly constructive dialog on it that resulted in OSHA regulations for swimming pools

As well as inclusion of the liability they represent in homeowner's insurance policies.

[Sancho]

32. Fortunately, there's no "NRA" for pools, so regulation is possible to make it better!

https://www.nspf.org/content/state-county-and-country-codes

State, County, and Country Codes
Useful Links to Swimming Pool and Spa Codes
CDC's Model Aquatic Health Code
— View the Entire Model Aquatic Health Code

— Operator Training Module Code

— Operator Training Module Annex

U.S. Federal Code Links
— H.R. 6: TITLE XIV—Pool and Spa Safety (Virginia Graeme baker Pool and Spa Safety Act)

U.S. State and County Code Links
Alabama*

— Baldwin County Codes

— Jefferson County Codes

Alaska

— Anchorage

Arizona

— Maricopa County Codes

Arkansas

California

— Los Angeles County Codes

— Orange County Codes

— Riverside County Codes

— San Diego County Codes

Colorado

Connecticut

Delaware

District of Columbia

Florida

Georgia

— Camden County Codes

— Fulton County Codes

Hawaii

— Hawaii Administrative Rules-Title 11

Idaho

Illinois

— Cook County Codes

Indiana

Iowa

Kansas*

— Lawrence County

— Wichita County

— Johnson County

Kentucky

— Louisville/Jefferson County Codes

Louisiana

Maine

Maryland

Massachusetts

Michigan

Minnesota

Mississippi

Missouri

— St. Charles County Codes

— City of Kansas City Codes

— St. Louis County Codes

Montana

Nebraska

— City of Omaha Codes

Nevada

— Southern Nevada Health District

— Washoe County Codes

New Hampshire

New Jersey

New Mexico

New York

North Carolina

North Dakota

Ohio

Oklahoma

— Oklahoma Statute

Oregon

Pennsylvania

— Allegheny County Codes

Puerto Rico

Rhode Island

South Carolina

South Dakota

Tennessee

Texas

— Richland Hills Codes

Utah

Vermont

Virginia

— City of Alexandria Codes

— Arlington County Codes

— Fairfax County Codes

— Loudon County Codes

Washington

West Virginia

Wisconsin

Wyoming

— Wyoming Regulations for Swimming Pools, Spas and Similar Installations

*Alabama and Kansas have no state regulations for public pools, only RWI prevention "guidelines"

Country Code Links
Australia

— Swimming Pools and Spas

Austria

— Austrian regulation (up to date)

Canada

— National Collaborating Center for Environmental Health

— Public Safety Canada

— Pool and Hot Tub Council of Canada

— Prince Edward Island

— National Collaborating Centre for Environmental Health - Pool Chlorination and Closure Guidelines

British Columbia

— Pool Operations Guidelines

Alberta

— Swimming Pool, Wading Pool and Water Spray Park Regulation

— Alberta's Public Swimming Pool Regulations

Saskatchewan

— Swimming Pool Design and Operational Standards - July 2012

Manitoba

— Recreational Water Safety

Ontario

— R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 565: Public Pools - Health Protection and Promotion Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. H.7

Quebec

— Safety Regulations - Swimming Federation of Quebec - Swimming Pools

Colombia

— Presidency of the Republic

France

— AFNOR group

— AFNOR group (English)

Mexico

— Official Journal of the Federation

Switzerland

— SIA standard search

[phylny]

33. YOU are the winner today! n/t

[Kang Colby]

41. That's wrong. Nice try.

Most of those U.S. links only deal with *public* pools and spas. I'm not sure how requiring towels and pool water to be sanitized at public pools is relevant to this discussion.

It proves my point though, if you want a pool get a membership at your local YMCA.

[Sancho]

46. There are plenty of regulations for home pools...and insurance policy mandates.

Regardless, your poorly disguised OP is about gun regulation - and the NRA + Congress are blocking meaningful ways to prevent dangerous access to guns.

Since I live in Florida, we know pools!! Of course, most gators don't read the No Trespassing signs.

The 2016 Florida Statutes


Title XXXIII
REGULATION OF TRADE, COMMERCE, INVESTMENTS, AND SOLICITATIONS
Chapter 515
RESIDENTIAL SWIMMING POOL SAFETY ACT
View Entire Chapter
CHAPTER 515
RESIDENTIAL SWIMMING POOL SAFETY ACT
515.21?Short title.
515.23?Legislative findings and intent.
515.25?Definitions.
515.27?Residential swimming pool safety feature options; penalties.
515.29?Residential swimming pool barrier requirements.
515.31?Drowning prevention education program; public information publication.
515.33?Information required to be furnished to buyers.
515.35?Rulemaking authority.
515.37?Exemptions.
515.21?Short title.—This chapter may be cited as the “Preston de Ibern/McKenzie Merriam Residential Swimming Pool Safety Act.”
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143.
515.23?Legislative findings and intent.—The Legislature finds that drowning is the leading cause of death of young children in this state and is also a significant cause of death for medically frail elderly persons in this state, that constant adult supervision is the key to accomplishing the objective of reducing the number of submersion incidents, and that when lapses in supervision occur a pool safety feature designed to deny, delay, or detect unsupervised entry to the swimming pool, spa, or hot tub will reduce drowning and near-drowning incidents. In addition to the incalculable human cost of these submersion incidents, the health care costs, loss of lifetime productivity, and legal and administrative expenses associated with drownings of young children and medically frail elderly persons in this state each year and the lifetime costs for the care and treatment of young children who have suffered brain disability due to near-drowning incidents each year are enormous. Therefore, it is the intent of the Legislature that all new residential swimming pools, spas, and hot tubs be equipped with at least one pool safety feature as specified in this chapter. It is also the intent of the Legislature that the Department of Health be responsible for producing its own or adopting a nationally recognized publication that provides the public with information on drowning prevention and the responsibilities of pool ownership and also for developing its own or adopting a nationally recognized drowning prevention education program for the public and for persons violating the pool safety requirements of this chapter.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143.
515.25?Definitions.—As used in this chapter, the term:
(1)?“Approved safety pool cover” means a manually or power-operated safety pool cover that meets all of the performance standards of the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) in compliance with standard F1346-91.
(2)?“Barrier” means a fence, dwelling wall, or nondwelling wall, or any combination thereof, which completely surrounds the swimming pool and obstructs access to the swimming pool, especially access from the residence or from the yard outside the barrier.
(3)?“Department” means the Department of Health.
(4)?“Exit alarm” means a device that makes audible, continuous alarm sounds when any door or window which permits access from the residence to any pool area that is without an intervening enclosure is opened or left ajar.
(5)?“Indoor swimming pool” means a swimming pool that is totally contained within a building and surrounded on all four sides by walls of or within the building.
(6)?“Medically frail elderly person” means any person who is at least 65 years of age and has a medical problem that affects balance, vision, or judgment, including, but not limited to, a heart condition, diabetes, or Alzheimer’s disease or any related disorder.
(7)?“Outdoor swimming pool” means any swimming pool that is not an indoor swimming pool.
(8)?“Portable spa” means a nonpermanent structure intended for recreational bathing, in which all controls and water-heating and water-circulating equipment are an integral part of the product and which is cord-connected and not permanently electrically wired.
(9)?“Public swimming pool” means a swimming pool, as defined in s. 514.011(2), which is operated, with or without charge, for the use of the general public; however, the term does not include a swimming pool located on the grounds of a private residence.
(10)?“Residential” means situated on the premises of a detached one-family or two-family dwelling or a one-family townhouse not more than three stories high.
(11)?“Swimming pool” means any structure, located in a residential area, that is intended for swimming or recreational bathing and contains water over 24 inches deep, including, but not limited to, in-ground, aboveground, and on-ground swimming pools; hot tubs; and nonportable spas.
(12)?“Young child” means any person under the age of 6 years.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143.
515.27?Residential swimming pool safety feature options; penalties.—
(1)?In order to pass final inspection and receive a certificate of completion, a residential swimming pool must meet at least one of the following requirements relating to pool safety features:
(a)?The pool must be isolated from access to a home by an enclosure that meets the pool barrier requirements of s. 515.29;
(b)?The pool must be equipped with an approved safety pool cover;
(c)?All doors and windows providing direct access from the home to the pool must be equipped with an exit alarm that has a minimum sound pressure rating of 85 dB A at 10 feet;
(d)?All doors providing direct access from the home to the pool must be equipped with a self-closing, self-latching device with a release mechanism placed no lower than 54 inches above the floor; or
(e)?A swimming pool alarm that, when placed in a pool, sounds an alarm upon detection of an accidental or unauthorized entrance into the water. Such pool alarm must meet and be independently certified to ASTM Standard F2208, titled “Standard Safety Specification for Residential Pool Alarms,” which includes surface motion, pressure, sonar, laser, and infrared alarms. For purposes of this paragraph, the term “swimming pool alarm” does not include any swimming protection alarm device designed for individual use, such as an alarm attached to a child that sounds when the child exceeds a certain distance or becomes submerged in water.
(2)?A person who fails to equip a new residential swimming pool with at least one pool safety feature as required in subsection (1) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, except that no penalty shall be imposed if the person, within 45 days after arrest or issuance of a summons or a notice to appear, has equipped the pool with at least one safety feature as required in subsection (1) and has attended a drowning prevention education program established by s. 515.31. However, the requirement of attending a drowning prevention education program is waived if such program is not offered within 45 days after issuance of the citation.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143; s. 14, ch. 2016-129.
515.29?Residential swimming pool barrier requirements.—
(1)?A residential swimming pool barrier must have all of the following characteristics:
(a)?The barrier must be at least 4 feet high on the outside.
(b)?The barrier may not have any gaps, openings, indentations, protrusions, or structural components that could allow a young child to crawl under, squeeze through, or climb over the barrier.
(c)?The barrier must be placed around the perimeter of the pool and must be separate from any fence, wall, or other enclosure surrounding the yard unless the fence, wall, or other enclosure or portion thereof is situated on the perimeter of the pool, is being used as part of the barrier, and meets the barrier requirements of this section.
(d)?The barrier must be placed sufficiently away from the water’s edge to prevent a young child or medically frail elderly person who may have managed to penetrate the barrier from immediately falling into the water.
(2)?The structure of an aboveground swimming pool may be used as its barrier or the barrier for such a pool may be mounted on top of its structure; however, such structure or separately mounted barrier must meet all barrier requirements of this section. In addition, any ladder or steps that are the means of access to an aboveground pool must be capable of being secured, locked, or removed to prevent access or must be surrounded by a barrier that meets the requirements of this section.
(3)?Gates that provide access to swimming pools must open outward away from the pool and be self-closing and equipped with a self-latching locking device, the release mechanism of which must be located on the pool side of the gate and so placed that it cannot be reached by a young child over the top or through any opening or gap.
(4)?A wall of a dwelling may serve as part of the barrier if it does not contain any door or window that opens to provide access to the swimming pool.
(5)?A barrier may not be located in a way that allows any permanent structure, equipment, or similar object to be used for climbing the barrier.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143.
515.31?Drowning prevention education program; public information publication.—
(1)?The department shall develop a drowning prevention education program, which shall be made available to the public at the state and local levels and which shall be required as set forth in s. 515.27(2) for persons in violation of the pool safety requirements of this chapter. The department may charge a fee, not to exceed $100, for attendance at such a program. The drowning prevention education program shall be funded using fee proceeds, state funds appropriated for such purpose, and grants. The department, in lieu of developing its own program, may adopt a nationally recognized drowning prevention education program to be approved for use in local safety education programs, as provided in rule of the department.
(2)?The department shall also produce, for distribution to the public at no charge, a publication that provides information on drowning prevention and the responsibilities of pool ownership. The department, in lieu of developing its own publication, may adopt a nationally recognized drowning prevention and responsibilities of pool ownership publication, as provided in rule of the department.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143.
515.33?Information required to be furnished to buyers.—A licensed pool contractor, on entering into an agreement with a buyer to build a residential swimming pool, or a licensed home builder or developer, on entering into an agreement with a buyer to build a house that includes a residential swimming pool, must give the buyer a document containing the requirements of this chapter and a copy of the publication produced by the department under s. 515.31 that provides information on drowning prevention and the responsibilities of pool ownership.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143.
515.35?Rulemaking authority.—The department shall adopt rules pursuant to the Administrative Procedure Act establishing the fees required to attend drowning prevention education programs and setting forth the information required under this chapter to be provided by licensed pool contractors and licensed home builders or developers.
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143.
515.37?Exemptions.—This chapter does not apply to:
(1)?Any system of sumps, irrigation canals, or irrigation flood control or drainage works constructed or operated for the purpose of storing, delivering, distributing, or conveying water.
(2)?Stock ponds, storage tanks, livestock operations, livestock watering troughs, or other structures used in normal agricultural practices.
(3)?Public swimming pools.
(4)?Any political subdivision that has adopted or adopts a residential pool safety ordinance, provided the ordinance is equal to or more stringent than the provisions of this chapter.
(5)?Any portable spa with a safety cover that complies with ASTM F1346-91 (Standard Performance Specification for Safety Covers and Labeling Requirements for All Covers for Swimming Pools, Spas and Hot Tubs).
(6)?Small, temporary pools without motors, which are commonly referred to or known as “kiddie pools.”
History.—s. 1, ch. 2000-143.

You know my position on guns:

People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

[Raissa]

61. +1

I also live in Florida too, and purchased a home with a pool. The regulations absolutely apply to residential properties.

This is one of the most poorly thought out comparisons I've seen lately.

[LanternWaste]

76. One wonders if a PAC has prevented the CDC from researching pool deaths.

One wonders if a PAC has prevented the CDC from researching pool deaths. Wonder no more... it's allowed. Studying gun violence though is yet banned.

[Heidi]

35. When somebody's pool manages to hunt people down and drown them en masse, we can discuss

pool reform.

[Kang Colby]

39. When has an inanimate object ever hunted anything down?

Well lord.

[hunter]

37. Gun fetishes are disgusting.

A child dies, and people use that to defend their gun love?

Piss on guns.

The second amendment is bullshit.

[Kang Colby]

38. No, 65 children die as a result of firearm accidents.

Nearly 800 children die due to non-boating drowning incidents.

We need to raise awareness.

[hunter]

40. Piss on guns.

Gun love is disgusting.

[Kang Colby]

42. Piss in pools.

[hunter]

44. As I said, gun love is disgusting.

The second amendment is bullshit, an ugly 18th century relic in the Constitution, just as slavery was.

[Kang Colby]

47. Pool love is disgusting. n/t

[struggle4progress]

62. Total deaths of children, seventeen or younger, by drowning and by firearms, 2000-2014:

Drowning -- about 14500 deaths
Firearms --- about 21000 deaths

The age distribution is different for these causes and so is intent

For drowning, about half the victims were aged three or younger
For death-by-firearm, about half the victims were sixteen or seventeen

Almost all drowning deaths (about 13700) were accidental
Almost all firearms deaths (about 19200) resulted from intentional violence

[plcdude]

82. from respecttheblankie.com 9/19/2015

With a few well-spent minutes with the latest Centers for Disease Control (CDC) statistics, I quickly realized that the claim was completely false. Swimming pools do not kill more people than guns.

Now, if you want to say that more U.S. children, age 14 and under, die from drowning than die from being shot, that is actually true. Of course, this is something like saying more U.S. children, age 14 and under, die from drowning than from heroin overdoses. More nine-year-olds go swimming than are shooting up or packing heat.

However, once you add in the next age-based demographic group, which is 15- to 24-year-olds, the total number of deaths by drowning is easily eclipsed by the total number of deaths by firearm.

For a quick comparison of the 2013 CDC statistics:

Age 14 and under, deaths by drowning: 625

Age 14 and under, deaths by firearm (intentional and otherwise): 408

Age 15 to 24, deaths by drowning: 501

Age 15 to 24, deaths by firearm (intentional and otherwise): 6085

So, by including those people over the age of 14 in the statistics, the numbers skew undeniably toward guns being much more dangerous than swimming pools. Including all age groups in the U.S., there is a total of 3,391 drowning deaths to a total of 33,169 deaths by firearm.

Also, keep in mind that drowning does not only include swimming pools. It includes all drowning that is non-boating-related. Anybody who drowns in a bathtub, a lake, a river, an ocean, or any other body of water is included in the statistics. So, really, swimming pools would appreciate it if you would quit blaming them for all of the drowning deaths.

But, even if the statistics weren’t so blatantly obvious in spelling out the relative danger of guns versus drowning, the assertion of the relative danger of swimming pools versus guns is, on its face, rather stupid.

For instance, I could not pick up a swimming pool and walk into a school, a movie theater, or a church, and start drowning people with it.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

52. Well, aren't you cute?

Playing the guns = accidental hazard canard yet again.

Didn't you play that one last mass shooting? Do you do anything on DU other than that?

[Warren DeMontague]

53. Tragic story

It's disgusting that the first thing some people think of upon reading that, is how to use it to make some point about the precious high-powered firearms that they have fetishized.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

55. Seems to be this poster's MO

I distinctly remember having this same conversation with him before.

Because, you know, the preferred weapon of the military is swimming pools.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. Preciousssssss

Filthy hobbitsses, always wanting to take away the precious

[Tommy_Carcetti]

72. My bad. He actually tried to compare guns with bicycles.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7234079

Sorry for the confusion.

[MohRokTah]

56. Why not just require locking pool covers?

[Warren DeMontague]

58. That time that guy walked into an elementary school and killed twenty 6 year olds with a pool?

...that was fucked up.

[leftyladyfrommo]

59. My neighbors have a pool like that.

There is no fence around it. It's just sitting out there in the backyard where any little kid in the neighborhood could climb in..

[REP]

66. How dare he have things in his backyard!

If only children could be taught to stay out of pools that are not theirs! My parents must have been the last to know of that ancient art of Teaching Their Children.

[leftyladyfrommo]

71. It's dangerous in this neighborhood .

This is a poor area with lots of pretty much unsupervised kids.

Kids see a pool on a hot day and just want to go swimming.

It's only 4 feet but that's enough to drown a three year old.

[Hoyt]

60. Is this supposed to offset the harm gun fanciers cause in our society. Sorry, there's

a big difference in pool fanciers and gun lovers.

[etherealtruth]

63. Of course it is .... it also ignores local ordinances related to zoning and building

My local municipality governs what kind of pool I may have .... it also may forbid the construction of a pool altogether through various zoning and building ordinances


If I am able to obtain a permit, I am required to build/ follow specific codes designed to increase safety:

Barriers provided for outdoor residential swimming pools must satisfy the following requirements:
• The barrier must completely surround the swimming pool and must obstruct access to the
swimming pool.
• The barrier must be at least 4 feet (48 inches) high.
• The space between the bottom of the barrier and the ground cannot exceed 2 inches.
• In the case of an above-ground pool, the barrier may be at ground level or mounted on
top of the pool structure; however, if the barrier is mounted on top of the pool structure,
the space between the top of the pool structure and the bottom of the barrier cannot
exceed 4 inches. See Figure 3109.4.1 on Page 3.
• Any opening in the barrier must be small enough to prevent the passage of a 4-inch diameter sphere through the opening. See Figure 3109.4.1.1 on Page 3.
• A barrier that does not have openings, such as a masonry or stone wall, cannot contain
indentations or protrusions (except for normal construction tolerances and tooled
masonry joints).
• Where the barrier is composed of horizontal and vertical members and the distance
between the tops of the horizontal members is less than 45 inches:
o the horizontal members must be located on the swimming pool side of the fence;
o the spacing between vertical members cannot exceed 1.75 inches; and
o the spacing within any decorative cutouts in vertical members cannot exceed 1.75
inches. See Figure 3109.4.1.3 below.
• Where the barrier is composed of horizontal and vertical members and the distance
between the tops of the horizontal members is 45 inches or more:
o the spacing between vertical members cannot exceed 4 inches; and
o the spacing within any decorative cutouts in vertical members cannot exceed 1.75 ....
This goes on for several more pages http://www.dos.ny.gov/dcea/pdf/PoolsumUC0708.pdf


I know we are talking about pools but if we were trying to make the comparison to "guns" I would have no problem with local and state governments governing them and codifying safety requirements.

[Hoyt]

67. Thanks. The OP is a gun proponent. Hope some day we have as many restrictions for gunz as pools.

We'll be a lot better off.

[etherealtruth]

68. Yep n/t

[malaise]

65. Horrible but don't more kids

from gun shots annually?

[Electric Monk]

69. And, you posted this thread because gunz, not because of swimming poolz

[KG]

70. pretty low even for the usual ammosexual shitbaggery.

[Orrex]

79. Don't forget that guy who carried a pool into a club and drowned 49 people

Happens all the time.