Why Black Lives Matter pulled out of San Francisco's gay parade

[oberliner]

Black Lives Matter Bay Area has announced Friday that it will not take place in San Francisco’s Pride Parade, citing concerns about the city’s decision to increase the police presence at the event after the nightclub shootings in Orlando.

Other groups have also announced that they will be pulling out of the parade due to city decisions which they say marginalize parts of the community.

“As queer people of color, we are disproportionately targeted by both vigilante and police violence. We know first hand that increasing the police presence at Pride does not increase safety for all people,” said Black Lives Matter member Malkia Cyril in a press release. “Militarizing these events increases the potential for harm to our communities and we hope in the future SF Pride will consider community-centered approaches to security at pride events.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2016/0625/Why-Black-Lives-Matter-pulled-out-of-San-Francisco-s-gay-parade

[cali]

2. Sounds like bye bye to you

Buzz off. Shoo.

[cali]

3. I understand their rationale.

[oberliner]

6. You oppose a greater police presence at the parade?

It seems to be a well-intentioned idea.

[cali]

10. I neither support or oppose it. I understand their sentiments.

[oberliner]

12. Why don't you support it?

It seems to demonstrate just how serious the city is about making sure this parade goes off successfully and safely.

What would be your reason to not support greater security at this event?

[JustAnotherGen]

17. ITA n/t

[loyalsister]

4. That's completely understandable and justified

Oppressed people experience it in different ways. I hope the fact of this difference does not create a rift as it presents an opportunity for introspection and locating common ground.

[oberliner]

5. Do you oppose a larger police presence at the parade?

It seems logical, considering the recent attack.

[KMOD]

7. It also is quite logical to see why

the Black Lives Matter Movement pulled out.

[oberliner]

8. Of course

I am just wondering if folks think the idea of a greater police presence at the parade is a bad one.

[mucifer]

19. Some people feel more threatened than secure when the police are around

That's just a fact.

[oberliner]

20. But there was definitely always going to be police around

Every year, there is a significant police presence at this parade.

[mucifer]

23. I can't speak for BLM but it seems to me they are making a political statement

in that when more police are around they are more at risk to be harmed.

They are in a huge battle right now. Court decision after court decision after court decision seems to be allowing police violence. They have to seize whatever press they can by reminding people what happens to them so often. They are trying to make change for the better.

[oberliner]

29. That makes sense

It definitely does draw attention to what is one of their central issues.

[loyalsister]

13. No

But my experience with police has never been negative and I know that my skin color assures me that that will continue to be the case. For that reason, I have no standing to pass judgement on people who are responding according to experiences that are foreign to me. I respect how they feel, as well as those who feel safer with a heavy police presence.

[oberliner]

14. Your skin color assures you that you will never have negative experiences with police?

What skin color would that be?

[loyalsister]

38. Lily white

I got caught stealing when I was a teenager and the security guard felt bad for me. Those situations typically go much differently for people who have more melanin.

[oberliner]

40. Many white people have negative experiences with the police

Having white skin does not assure a person that they will never have any such experience.

[loyalsister]

41. Do you dispute that the odds are different?

Over the past year, The Post found that the vast majority of those shot and killed by police were armed and half of them were white. Still, police killed blacks at three times the rate of whites when adjusted for the populations where these shootings occurred. And although black men represent 6 percent of the U.S. population, they made up nearly 40 percent of those who were killed while unarmed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/final-tally-police-shot-and-killed-984-people-in-2015/2016/01/05/3ec7a404-b3c5-11e5-a76a-0b5145e8679a_story.html

[oberliner]

42. No, of course I don't dispute that

I just dispute your claim that your skin color assures you that your experience with police will never be negative.

[loyalsister]

43. Did you really miss the meaning of my sentence

Assures as in "a sense of confidence." It's pretty common usage.

Or did you overlook it and insert your own hyperbole in a futile effort to sustain criticism of BLM's decision?

[oberliner]

47. I didn't miss the meaning of the sentence

I just dispute the assertion.

[loyalsister]

49. Should I be afraid?

Is my confidence misplaced? Is it just me, or are all white people mistaken when they acknowledge that the odds of getting shot by police are much lower than for of people of color?

[oberliner]

54. No, you shouldn't be afraid

But you should be aware that a large number of white people have had negative experiences with the police.

[loyalsister]

58. all lives matter right?

Never mind who formed the group or why.... "How dare the pretend to matter at my party."

[Jake Stern]

9. A true Catch-22 for SF

They beef up police presence after the Pulse shootings and BLM feels offended and pulls out

BUT

If they stand down as BLM would like and an attack does happen then they'll be brutally criticized for not having extra law enforcement on hand and accused of not being concerned with the LGBT community

[oberliner]

11. My sentiments exactly

Seems like a no-win situation.

Personally, I would err on the side of doing as much as possible to protect the participants.

[JustAnotherGen]

15. And BLM pulling out allows the higher police presence

They just aren't going to participate and have stated clearly why.

No one should take offense at someone not going someplace they don't feel comfortable.

Fact - the San Francisco PD will be out in full force.
BLM won't be.

It's safer for everyone that way.

[oberliner]

18. But they were comfortable taking part with just the regular level of police presence

So having some cops present is not a problem but having additional cops present becomes such a problem that the organization withdraws entirely from the event (at which they were supposed to be grand marshall)?

Presumably, there was already going to be a significant police presence, as there always has been.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. That's their right

I don't feel comfortable around cops I don't know anymore. That's my right.

Of all the things to worry about - BLM pulling out of a parade is pretty low on the list.

Bless them, wish them well, and go on.

[oberliner]

22. Agreed

Just like it's a person's right to support Donald Trump, but I can still argue on a message board why I think that is unwise.

Again, this is a discussion board. I am just sharing my opinion and curious to hear others.

[KMOD]

24. Why do you think it's unwise?

I don't get why this concerns you at all.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. Good question

I don't get why someone making a decision about their personal safety is unwise.

[oberliner]

27. Because Donald Trump would be an awful president

My point was that just because someone has a right to take a particular action, doesn't mean that we can't argue about it here on a discussion forum.

With respect to the BLM group withdrawing from the SF parade, it doesn't concern me in the sense that I am going to write my Congressional representative about it or try to organize a march on Washington.

I just read an article on DU, thought about what it said, and then expressed my opinion.

It seems like, since there is already a police presence at this event when the BLM group agreed to take part and serve as grand marshall, then there must be some level of policing with which the group is comfortable.

[KMOD]

31. There is nothing to argue.

In light of recent events, and in light of the very strained relationship between the San Francisco Police and the black community, the Black Lives Matter Movement made a decision to forgo the event.

[oberliner]

35. There is a lot to argue

Having the grand marshal of a parade withdraw simply because of increased police presence is a pretty significant event which makes a clear statement and has numerous potential areas of fallout.

The entire theme of the parade is: "For Racial and Economic Justice".

This is more than simply a group deciding to forego the event. This was a group that was selected to be the guest of honor at the parade.

The people of San Francisco chose to honor the BLM by having them serve as grand marshals for the parade, as an organization that embodies the ideals of that theme.

[KMOD]

36. Ok, let's argue that, if that is what you are looking for.

I'll start by asking this.

How can, and will, the San Francisco Police Department regain the trust of the African American community, so that they aren't faced with a decision of which fear is worse, homophobic vigilante violence or police violence?

[oberliner]

37. That's a great question

And certainly, the BLM making this decision to withdraw from the parade could help to spark a more serious conversation about the SF police department not having the trust of that community, and presumably others.

The resignation of the chief of police in May of this year could possibly represent a step in the right direction.

The fact that the new chief of police is an African-American and is someone who has made repeated public pledges to reform the department also seems to be a potential positive.

[JustAnotherGen]

25. And you've done so

Upthread cali made clear her view on the issue in the first post.

Asking for a strong yes/no position doesn't mean asking people a second time will get you a strong yes no. Her opinion didn't change.

I'm seeing a bit of live and let live on this thread - and that I very strongly say " yes" to.

BLM's actions in regards to this parade isn't going to change my life tonight or tomorrow. Live and let live - sometimes things reveal themselves. Sometimes they don't. I just don't think there is some dark ulterior motive point being made here. When I take it at face value . .. I shrug shoulders and say live and let live.

[oberliner]

28. A discussion forum is for discussions

It's okay for us to have disagreements and try to make our points and ask challenging questions. That's what makes DU such an engaging and illuminating forum to be a part of, in my opinion at least.

I was just asking a follow up question and trying to make a point that might get the other person to reflect and possibly change their mind. Certainly, that's happened with me quite frequently thanks to the many smart and insightful comments and challenging questions from other DUers over the years.

Again, what attracts me to DU is the back and forth that provokes thoughtful consideration of topics from different angles. As long as such an exchange is done courteously and politely, of course.

[loyalsister]

39. + 1

I don't understand what is hard about this.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. Offended? Or not safe?

I also don't think they want to put others in harm's way.

This is a GLBT pride event. It's good to keep the focus on that.

[Meldread]

30. Except that...

There are obviously black LGBTQ people, whose voices need representation, and BLM was founded by three black queer women: Alicia Garza, Opal Tometi, and Patrisse Cullors. BLM and the LGBTQ movement are interlinked through shared goals, and in some cases, shared leaders.

[KMOD]

32. and it's very sad that the current hostile environment

has led them to the decision to withdraw from an event that should be full of pride and love.

But it is, what it is, at the moment.

[Meldread]

34. They didn't withdraw from the event. They withdrew from the parade.

I think it was a wise decision. It also dramatized the ongoing issue of police violence against black and brown people in the area, which is a side bonus. It would be my hope that there would be other events taking place where BLM can be given a platform in a safe environment so that they can continue to be included and spread their message to the broader community.

It is also important to remember, in the context of queer liberation, how and why Pride started. It started as a result of the Stonewall Riots--riots against police brutality, violence, and injustice against our community--and that is why so many Pride events take place around this time of the year. It is in memory of Stonewall. I cannot think of a more appropriate venue for BLM to be at to spread their message.

[pinboy3niner]

33. Yes, and their fuller statement makes that clear...

In light of the recent announcement that PRIDE participants would be subject to increased policing, metal detectors and discretionary admittance, several Grand Marshals and awardees of the “racial & economic justice” themed event are withdrawing from participation in the Pride Parade or Civic Center activities because of the unsafe conditions created for our communities by law enforcement. In the aftermath of the Orlando shooting that took the lives of dozens of queer people of color, many people in our community are afraid. For us, celebrating Pride this year meant choosing between the threat of homophobic vigilante violence and the threat of police violence. We had a tough decision to make, and ultimately we chose to keep our people safe by not participating in any event that would leave our communities vulnerable to either.

Organizational Grand Marshal Black Lives Matter withdrew their participation, citing the SFPD’s recent track record of racist scandal and killings of people of color, and noting that while first responders can be an incredible resource in crisis, they are too often the cause of harm in queer communities of color.

“The Black Lives Matter network is grateful to the people of San Francisco for choosing us, we choose you too,” said Malkia Cyril, a member of Black Lives Matter. “As queer people of color, we are disproportionately targeted by both vigilante and police violence. We know first hand that increasing the police presence at Pride does not increase safety for all people. Militarizing these events increases the potential for harm to our communities and we hope in the future SF Pride will consider community-centered approaches to security at pride events.”

Grand Marshal Janetta Johnson, Executive Director of the TGI Justice Project- an organization by and for trans, intersex and gender non conforming people in prisons, jails and detention centers – announced her decision to withdraw from the parade at a Pride press conference on Friday. “While I am thankful for this honor, and grateful to Pride for bringing our work to the front this year, the decision to add more police to Pride does not make me, or my community, more safe,” Johnson said.

http://blacklivesmatter.com/in-response-to-increased-policing-of-civic-center-grand-marshals-awardees-withdraw-from-participation-in-pride-parade/

Hat tip to KamaAina
http://www.democraticunderground.com/104014367

[JustAnotherGen]

45. I'm aware of that

The history, whose involved, etc etc. One can still participate - without those three there. At the head of the parade. And then if something goes wrong - it becomes a BLM issue.

This is about Pride - that's what the focus of the parade has always been. We talk about safe spaces and to me? This is and should be focused on the Pride movement.

In light of Orlando - this needs to be a joyous moment for the GLBT community.

[Meldread]

46. A joyous moment after Orlando?

It is not possible to have a joyous moment after Orlando. It is a time for regrouping, reasserting ourselves, and refocusing on our mission as a community. It is a time to remember all the shit we've gone through to get to this point, and how Orlando can't and won't hold us back.

We have a lot of shit we need to figure out, especially in light of the near attack on LA Pride, and the numerous other copy cat threats being made across the country. There is not really a whole lot of joyousness in that, more like a sober and stubborn refusal to hide or change our lives out of terror. It is a display that we cannot be intimidated or broken, and a time to show solidarity with the entire queer community and the diverse but related and shared struggles that we face.

[JustAnotherGen]

48. Yep - a joyous moment

He didn't break the community. I'm standing right behind the community. I've got their backs.

It's always been joyous - it needs to remain joyous.

A few years ago a lone gunman opened fire on one of our churches in Tennessee (UU). He blamed us for liberalism, the welfare state, etc etc.

You know what? We didn't change a thing. If anything - we doubled down on our beliefs and who we are. A year later, the church I originally joined in Rochester NY ((First Unitarian) had a very large rainbow flag ripped off by vandals. Know what? They put it back. I contributed to the fund from 400 miles away.

Double down. Smile. Laugh. Connect. High five. Hug. If you went last year - go this year. If you participated last year - participate the same way this year.

Number23 just posted an article in another group about the poc firewall. I've been writing at DU about that for the past year and "living it" in real life. We have to hold the line. That's my job - black straight UU woman. Go have a good time on that day - because I need to make sure a same sex couple recently married isn't getting kicked out of their home (search BehindTheAegis posts where he speaks to that).

There's a time to let people shine - and you stand down and have their backs. Go have a good time. I will man the front lines while you are doing that - I can hold the firewall.

ETA - this explains very well where I'm coming from here : http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7957174

IE - Its not about "me".

[oberliner]

55. "It is not possible to have a joyous moment after Orlando"

Wow, that is a pretty heavy statement.

[Meldread]

56. It's also a true statement.

Until we have justice for those who were massacred, those who were injured, the people who've lost loved ones, the people who have to care for maimed and injured loved ones, and yes--unfortunately--those who have YET TO BE MASSACRED OR INJURED (because we know it is going to happen again)--then we are merely joyously celebrating between tragedies. It's a bit like having a party while the city burns all around you.

I personally do not want to move from one candlelit vigil to a party back to a candlelit vigil. It is too morbid to consider, and I know a lot of others feel the same.

Also, it's important not to mistake Pride as a joyous celebration anyway, it is a moment of defiance against our oppressors. It is a moment where we come together and feel pride in ourselves and in our community, and find strength in numbers--in a world where we are so often out numbered.

[oberliner]

57. It's true to you

But I am confident there are others who are capable of having a joyous moment after Orlando.

[TipTok]

44. Bye...

Another event that they have to try to make about them...

[demmiblue]

51. They should let the LGBT community have their day, but...

your linking BLM and Westboro Baptist Church together is disgusting.

[alphafemale]

52. meh. opinions....assholes

I you want to learn how to lose allies?

[demmiblue]

53. Any further comment on my part would probably result in a hide.

BLM =/= Westboro Baptist Church.