The Reaction to Brexit is the Reason Brexit Happened

[Seeking Serenity]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-reaction-to-brexit-is-the-reason-brexit-happened-20160627

Taibbi makes some excellent points here. I've been reading a lot of commentary since the referendum, and the absolute snobbishness by many of the Remain writers is painful to read.

"Ooh, too much democracy." "There are some things that the people just shouldn't be consulted about." Basically, know your place, PEASANTS! RESPECT AND OBEY YOUR BETTERS!

I'm not convinced as many are here that the Brexit vote was just 100% racism and xenophobia, and nothing else. I think the elites' (and those who fancy themselves one-day elites) reaction to the voters' popular will shows a dark, deeply disturbing, anti-democracy line of belief.

[Else You Are Mad]

1. Indeed, many felt there was too much unfair over reach...

...from the EU that had nothing to do with immigration or xenophobia.

For example, here is a planned EU rule that would have made illegal a common type of tea kettle that most UK citizens owned:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/10/eu-to-launch-kettle-and-toaster-crackdown-after-brexit-vote2/

While that is just an anecdotal example, it just shows that most that voted to exit did so because of the beaurocratic rule from Brussels was more of an issue than racism. Sure, there was a racist element to it, but most of the citizens that came from Africa and the Middle East voted to exit.

The issue is much more complicated than old, stupid racists wanted to leave because of immigration.

[PaulaFarrell]

7. who cares about a frickin kettle?

Energy efficiency rules are required to meet climate change targets. Without the EU doing that the planet is stuffed. And why are you quoting a right wing rag like the telegraph anyway? Here's a clue - they lie to push their agenda, which has always been anti-EU.

Most voted because of immigration - 52% in fact, they admitted it straigt up, and that has been widely shared on this site, so no excuse for not knowing that. Xenophobic incidents are on the rise as the idiots have been given the green light - my own friend accosted this morning in a coffee shop and told to go home.

I am appalled, APPALLED, at the way so many people on du are prepared to overlook xenophobia and blame it on anything else. I am not against democracy but that doesn't mean I don't get pissed off at the idiots who vote sometimes, especially if something as trivial as the specs of a kettle is what motivates them. I just hope you're so forgiving of your fellow citizens if/when they vote in Trump, because people will do that for the same stupid reasons.

[Else You Are Mad]

11. Like I said...

It was anecdotal evidence. The point is that there are a large amount of UK citizens that voted to exit that did so because of the burden of rules, and not because of xenophobia. My point is that to just blanket all exit voters as racists is incorrect. So, according to your comment, then 48% did not vote because of racism.

It is easy to ignore nuance and just label every exit voter as an ignorant racist, but the truth is much more complicated than that and you are doing yourself a disservice by just keeping your blinders on that the exit voters are such. Many minorities voted to exit.

Everything doesn't always fall into simple fauxrage talking points.

[PaulaFarrell]

17. i have no idea why minorities voted that way

If indeed they did. I've not seen it before and you haven't provided a link. I did see the video of the stupid girl whose whole family voted out and then wanted to change her vote the next day ad she hadn't thought it would pass. I guess Africans do tend to work in the low-paid professions too so maybe they didn't want the competition from east Europeans.
And no, it doesn't mean 48% weren't xenophobic. Most ofthe reasons given could be linked to immigration as well, its just that 52% weren't ashamed to admit it.
I am not the one with blinders on. That'd be the person who thinks they know better than people who actually live in this country.
And I am not faux-raged, I am genuinely outraged that there are racist marches in my town, that my friend is accosted- physically - in a coffee shop, that my children's choices in life have just been shrunk, that Boris frickin Johnson is probably going to be pm, and that people on DU, who should be against bigotry in all its forms, are bending over backwards to defend the bigots.
Ps you haven't answered the trump question. If he's voted in, will you also defend those who voted him in?

[Else You Are Mad]

21. Yes.

The very heart of democracy is to allow the people vote the way they want. To overturn the vote of the common person is to violate everything that is democracy. I wouldn't like of a vote that has Trump winning, but the beauty of democracy is that the will of the people cannot be overturned by those that do not like the outcome of the vote.

[PaulaFarrell]

26. as i said, im not against democracy

I'm not saying the vote should be overturned. That doesn't mean I don't have the right to be pissed off about it. And especially pissed off at people who try to make out this vote was other than what it was.

[Else You Are Mad]

30. So, we are in agreement in that case.

The people that voted to exit that weren't voting because of race are pissed off by those that try to label them racist, xenophobic, and unintelligent.

[PaulaFarrell]

45. haha very few of those about n /t

[Else You Are Mad]

47. They do exist. nt.

[smirkymonkey]

20. Besides, aren't the overwhelming majority of immigrants to the UK

from Eastern Europe? If so that means they are most likely white, so it's hardly racism. Xenophobia, maybe, but not racism. Not that it's any better, but there are some very practical reasons for exit voters voting the way they did. There isn't enough to go around for impoverished and out of work UK citizens and it's natural that they would resent new immigrants taking up jobs and claiming resources while they are left out in the cold.

[Else You Are Mad]

22. I was referring to...

The African, Middle Eastern and Pakistani voters.

[Ex Lurker]

58. There's been a lot of that on DU, too

Anyone who disagrees with the conventional wisdom is an ignorant racist.

[yeoman6987]

42. I am just glad the stock market is back

Hopefully by Friday all the loss in the United states will be back for everyone. I know many were nervous. I told my family to relax. Looks like we will all be alright thank goodness.

[4Q2u2]

9. Too many issues

The issues could have numbered as many as the votes themselves.
Trying to broad brush why it happened will never achieve proper answers.

Even the larger context has layers of subtlety. As for the racism or xenophobia.
Is this racism of xenophobia to not believe that a differing culture is trying to fundamentally change the fabric of society.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/anti-gay-anti-alcohol-londons-sharia-patrol/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/world/europe/a-climate-of-fear-widens-divisions-in-europes-migrant-crisis.html?_r=0

How much did this have an effect? It had some, and none positive.

[Else You Are Mad]

13. Exactly.

Valid point.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

35. Fuck 'em

Feminists better wake up and realize that these Muslim fundamentalists want to control women like we haven't seen in...well...I don't know how far back to go for that one!

No man is going to tell me how to dress or where I can walk, and the fact that they are allowed to intimidate women like this is OUTRAGEOUS!

[David__77]

50. The cleric has British nationality.

As for the men who counsel people on Islam-inspired morality, I have no idea.

I would not want these people in my community. I would not want conservative religious proselytizers of any stripe in my neighborhood.

[4Q2u2]

73. Correct

He and his family and their idea of Islam came from somewhere else to Leavers though.

The secondary offshoot of his rhetoric what that Fundie Christians started counter marches to their marches.
Just an all around Fire and Brimstone, "you are going to hell" party. Noting says fun more than that.

[PaulaFarrell]

27. you are wrong, i googled it

67% of Asians voted remain, 73% of blacks voted remain, 70% of Muslims voted remain

[Else You Are Mad]

28. Well, maybe the BBC was wrong.

If I am wrong I will admit it, but please provide the link.

[PaulaFarrell]

32. sorry on my phone and i haven't figured out how to cut and paste

How about you providing a link for your assertion?

[Else You Are Mad]

33. lol, I am on my phone as well.

But, your assertion regarding the racial break down of the vote appears to be right. I was wrong.

[PaulaFarrell]

36. guess then you saw all the headlines about all the racist incidents in the last week

Even though non-europeans aren't affected, it seems the racists feel empowered to act out on their impulses. Sad days.

[Else You Are Mad]

41. It is sad.

But, there has been a huge racist hard right moment in all of the EU nations well before the Brexit. For example, the Golden Dawn party and other admittedly NAZI parties have won seats and get s good amount of votes. This is nothing new & these racist attacks have skyrocketed since 2008.

The problem is that those in the US just found out that the EU has far right national parties and that there have been large left wing protests in every major EU city for years.

[pampango]

37. So it was older, whiter, more conservative voters who voted to Leave. That demographic reminds me

of someone named Donald in the US and his supporters.

If minorities, women and younger voters don't turn out here in November, we will elect our own Brexit (Brexit in the UK = Trump in the US).

[runaway hero]

62. Bingo

Go to the polls, don't sit on the computer and whine!

[nruthie]

2. Very thought provoking.

[Seeking Serenity]

3. Thank you.

I thought so, too.

And no one here can claim Matt Taibbi is just a far-right extremist.

[maryellen99]

4. I really think it was about xenophobia plus the lie of putting $350 million a wk back into NHS

There has a huge rise of racial/xenophobic incidents since leave won. They are going up and telling anyone who is not white English to get out of their country-and that they have gone after American expats as well.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

29. How many is "they?"

Millions?

Thousands?

Hundreds?

A few dozen?

[maryellen99]

38. Here's one from Kos

After Brexit Racial/xenophobic abuse increased [link:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/06/27/1542919/-Hate-on-the-rise-in-the-dis-United-Kingdom|

There's an account of xenophobic abuse from an American expat who was spit on plus pictures of a Spanish restaurant whose window was smashed.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

40. Yes, I know it's occurring

By "they" can be anything from millions to a few dozen attacks.

[maryellen99]

46. according to the Independent,over a hundred incidents have been reported since Leave won nt

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

48. Thank you.

nt

[maryellen99]

49. You're welcome I feel awful for the foreigners there nt

[pampango]

5. Conservative super-elites won the referendum. Deal with it, liberals.

"Ooh, too much democracy." "There are some things that the people just shouldn't be consulted about."

There are things that voters should not decide: human rights, civil rights, abortion rights to name a few.

This referendum was proposed by a Conservative prime minster at the behest of the far-right faction of his party and the farther right UKIP.

That said the conservative elite won the referendum, disgusting tactics notwithstanding, and liberals and young people will have to deal with it.

Life is about to change - and not for the better. If we elect Trump the same will apply to us. You get what you pay for.

[Seeking Serenity]

6. Do you believe people have the right to make mistakes?

The right to be wrong (as you or someone else would define "wrong&quot ?

[pampango]

23. Of course they do. People empowered conservative super-elites. They have every right

to do what they did which why I urged liberals to 'deal with it' rather than try to reverse it. Liberals are famous for accepting reality and dealing with it. Conservatives are more infamous for denying reality and inventing an alternative one.

[alarimer]

8. Government by referendum is idiotic.

I said this when all the anti-gay marriage referendums were on the agenda. It is a stupid way to make policy. If it weren't for the Supreme Court, they would still be on the books.

We elect people to represent us. In an ideal world, those people would study the issues and make decisions according to what they and their constituents want. And if they don't, they can be voted out. Of course we don't live in a ideal world, but it is still better than government by referendum.

[Seeking Serenity]

12. Did you think, say, the referendum (i.e., popular vote)

in Colorado to legalize marijuana was "idiotic?" Or the popular state referenda pre-Obergefell legalizing gay marriage "idiotic?"

[branford]

18. No one was complaining about referanda

when the Scots were seeking independence...

It's not that referenda are so much a problem, rather it is the regularity in which the common folk vote the "wrong" way and don't obey the wishes of their betters among the political, academic, and very wealthy classes.

Liberals often support direct democracy as an expression of the voice of the people, particularly the marginalized, at least until they realize that everyone who disagrees with them also gets a vote (to say nothing of incidences like the UK referendum where about a third of traditional Labout voters supported Brexit).

If you only effectively support democracy when you win, you don't really believe in democracy. It reminds me of people, including a great many of my fellow liberals here and elsewhere, who claim to support free speech, and then inevitably follow it with a "but" listing all the speech they disagree with they that believe should be censored.

Hypocrisy and authoritarianism, purportedly in support of noble goals, transcends the left and right divide.

[Seeking Serenity]

24. Very well stated, counselor

Very well stated, indeed.

[4Q2u2]

15. Dos not always work out also

Jim Crow was instituted by elected officials, and were following their constituents wants.

Ireland approved Equal Marriage for all by referendum.

Checks and Balances, pretty good idea by a bunch of Rich, White, Dead Guys.

[closeupready]

10. Taibbi is correct. People at the top are going to lose money; that's

ultimately why we keep hearing from elites that this referendum's approval was a disaster, that voters were misinformed, lied to, etc. So predictable.

[Else You Are Mad]

14. Bingo!

That is one of the best summations of the Brecon I have seen here on DU.

[closeupready]

16. Thanks.

I do sometimes make sense, lol.

[PaulaFarrell]

25. people at the bottom will lose more

Ukip is essentially libertarian, conservatives just love austerity. Turkeys voting for Christmas

[pampango]

31. Yeah let's bring back the 1929 Stock Market Crash and the Great Depression. That will teach

those people at the top a lesson they won't soon forget. The Great Depression didn't harm the 99% did it?

Maybe Trump really is the candidate whom liberals should support. Most liberals think his election would be terrible for the economy which would cause the rich to lose a lot of money.

Brexit for the UK = Trump for the US.

[closeupready]

43. Why do you want to bring back the Great Depression? That's bizarre.

Bizarre where people's minds here go sometimes.

[pampango]

51. The conservative super-elites are certainly not complaining that Brexit's approval was a disaster.

THEY LOVE IT! They are losing lots of money in the short run but they can afford it. Once the conservative super-elites in the UK are rid of those pesky EU labor and environmental regulations (take that you liberal elites in Brussels!) they can make that money back and much more. They think long term, not short term.

Is it the liberal 'elite' who are complaining about losing money? So predictable, I suppose.

And Farage has already said that some of his campaign rhetoric was not true. Were they lies? Mere information? In the eye of the beholder, I guess.

The conservatives in the UK were smart to turn the dissatisfaction of British voters into a referendum, not on all elites (conservatives are smart way) but merely on the 'liberal elites' in Brussels with their pesky progressive rules and regulations.

Conservatives won and will refashion the UK in their image. When voters rejected "elites", conservative elites came out smiling.

[closeupready]

53. I don't think you know what you're talking about.

It's possible you're simply regurgitating talking points from your keepers, or even less seriously, other message boards...?

But yeah, you clearly seem to think you know everything, so I'll let you have the last word in this exchange. Cheers.

[pampango]

54. You could enlighten me but .... Cheers to you too. n/t

[HuckleB]

19. Yes, let's ignore what we know about how propaganda works. Great idea!

That way we can make excuses for people who vote for Trump.

Ugh.



It appears that Taibbi is now simply going for click bait routines.

How useful.

To someone.

[jack_krass]

44. YES! Finally a rational commentary on this topic... .

a nice break from the "racist xenophobic uneducated bigots duped by the press into leaving EU" talking point!

Its preposterous to sat that 55% of UK citzens are simple racist xenophobes.

[pampango]

52. 52% of Brits are not racist xenophobes. The latter just provided the winning margin.

There is a reason that the unions and the left supported Remain and the racist xenophobes supported Leave.

[jack_krass]

57. You give a quite simplistic view of it. Do you know that CEO's also support "stay"

As well as the coservarive prime minister? Looking at this as a left/right issue entirely missed the point IMO

[pampango]

59. The polling data shows that most conservatives voted to Leave and most liberals voted to Remain. Of

course there were some conservatives who vote to Remain and some liberals who voted to Leave.

Nonetheless, Jeremy Corbyn and the TUC wanted to campaigned to stay in the EU and most Labour voters voted that way. Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage led the campaign to exit the EU and most Tory voters voted that way. I don't blame you for not wanting to look at it as a left/right issue.

Most UK conservatives are much happier about the outcome than most UK liberals though there are certainly outliers in both cases.

[TubbersUK]

55. Thank goodness you and Taibbi stepped in, now I know how to conduct myself in these difficult times

Patronising or what

[NuclearDem]

56. No, it wasn't.

[runaway hero]

64. What do you care

the third wayers, they're always right, right? smh this is why we people voting for a guy like Donald.



People better wake before we get some of that cold soup here.

[NuclearDem]

65. This has nothing to do with the Third Way.

It has everything to do with a catastrophically stupid read of what happened in the United Kingdom with the referendum. If it weren't for Donald Trump, people like Matt Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald would easily take the prize for most astoundingly unqualified to comment on it.

[runaway hero]

67. Which make you and I?

Peopl take the easy road because is always about scoring the points and checking the right boxes. You have no actual idea if every single person that voted out is racist, but that's the narrative we run with.

[GeorgeGist]

60. Spoken like someone who's never ...

had children.

There are times when democracy should be left to adults.

JMO

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

61. imploring people not to join a suicide pact isn't snobbish

Brexit offers a principled plunge into oblivion, and that's about it.

The result of this is going to be ruinous to the lives and careers of millions of Britons, these people weren't just going to say, "Well the people have spoken, I guess I should sod off and become a Chav."

[sufrommich]

63. There's been a whole lot of things that would

have never happened if it went to a popular vote, including a woman's right to vote and practically all the civil rights legislation of the 60s They only people who would feel comfortable with everything being decided by a vote are those safe in the majority.

[Odin2005]

66. Bullshit, Brexit happened because people are bigoted xenophobes.

[RAFisher]

68. The reaction to Brexit has been rampant xenophobic attacks on non British people

Taibbi conveniently leaves that out. People wanted a validation of their xenophobia and they got it with this referendum.

[oberliner]

69. Typical contratiran cluelessness from an American who has no idea what he is talking about

Look at me! I'm smarter than the elites! I know the real reason why Brexit happened!

[Tsiyu]

70. Yes

I sometimes write for British blogs and retailers so I keep SKY news on sometimes to pay attention to what's up.

The morning after (still just nighttime here) I watched one of the news readers have a meltdown as reality hit, chastising the labor dude and commenting in effect that the working class didn't always know what was best for itself.

I laughed my head off.

It's true in America that religion and guns cloud the heads of many of our working class. But I suspect in the Brexit case that the people felt like they were getting screwed either way, but one way was more reprehensible because the 1% benefitted from their misery.

With Brexit they get to see all off the investor class pucker up and freak the fuck out, which can be satisfying even when your own pension is in peril.

Sort of like "If you're gonna keep me down you'll have to stay down here with me."


It was a Sansa moment watching the meltdown. For people who tell the working class that money is no big deal and they should be happy to even have jobs at all, those investors sure think money's a Big Deal when it's hemorrhaging from their own pockets.

Why can't they just be happy to have jobs? Why does the pound have to be valued so high? You can't take it with you and you should be glad a robot isn't taking over your corner office....and all that neoliberal rot....lol



BTW on edit: Maybe it's better to say it was a Cersei moment. I'm certainly not in line with Brexit thought, but I get where that sort of stubborness comes from.

To all those whinging about "muh investmuhnts" all I can do is grin and say: when you show up on a thread about prison conditions or poverty or women's health I'll surely develop warm and fuzzy feelings concerning your "investmuhnts."

Just like in 2008, marginalized people say "meh." On both sides of the pond.