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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFather kills man sexually abusing his daughter, Father is remorseful (Internet celebrates)
read comments following article. People sure are happy about itSheriff: Father kills man sexually abusing his daughter
The father is "very remorseful," the sheriff says
(CNN) -- A Texas father caught a man sexually assaulting his 4-year-old daughter and punched him in the head repeatedly, killing him, authorities said.
The father was casually acquainted with the alleged abuser, said Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon.
Neither has been publicly identified.
The girl was left inside the family's house during the social gathering, while other members of her family were tending to horses, the sheriff said.
The alleged abuser was known for his horse-grooming abilities, Harmon said.
The father returned to the house, caught the man in the act, and stopped him by striking him in the head several times, Harmon said.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/justice/texas-abuser-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing.
I'm not "into" violence, but this is a tiny little girl (I have one of those, too - a just-turned-5-year-old).
madokie
(51,076 posts)I know of no one who is of the mind that would sexually abuse a child who was rehabilitated. I'd done the same as this man who beat the bastard to death did. Out of rage not out of forethought and I wouldn't have been remorseful about it either no matter who the creep was
And I'm a small woman... but I would have found the strength to, if not kill, seriously injured this criminal.
longship
(40,416 posts)Lisabeth Salander is 4'11" and 88 lbs.
BTW, in the second book she kicks the shit out of two big, bad bikers who would kill her.
An inspiration for all short people.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)But fiction often makes socio-political statements which can have consequences.
Lisabeth Salander is fictional, but her story makes some profound statements about equality on many levels and several domains. The reason Larsson's books (and the Swedish-language films) have become so popular is because of the complex questions of morality throughout the narrative.
REP
(21,691 posts)I threw him, too (actually, it's pretty easy to throw someone if you know some basic judo moves). He was trying to steal my purse and I wasn't raised to put up with shit like that from anyone. Kept my purse and everything in it, but I did break some nails pretty badly.
Well, when I was attacked by two men, I did initially start swinging but even back then I had problems with my right arm and two on one isn't good odds, so I took my wallet and let them take the purse. Got the purse back a few days later, too.
Response to REP (Reply #95)
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a la izquierda
(12,313 posts)little brick shithouse. I helped him once when he got jumped at a show.
Ter
(4,281 posts)The only thing worse than no confidence is false confidence. Unless the 4'11 woman is a martial arts mster of a boxer, she is losing to almost any 6' man, the same way almost any 6' man is losing to Shaq.
crunch60
(1,412 posts)and take it from there. I have successfully defended myself, against an attacker who was 40 yrs. my junior, 5'9, and I am very petite. Using you brain over brawn, or a combination of the two, can be very effective.
redqueen
(115,186 posts)I guess writing repulsively long, graphic descriptions of rape scenes somehow helped him relieve the guilt.
Thankfully the kid who witnessed this rape went and told someone.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)and I would hope that the Internet would not celebrate. It's a terrible thing for all involved. But if I had caught someone doing that to my daughter I honestly feel I would not have been able to control myself.
crunch60
(1,412 posts)It is a natural instinct for parents to protect their children and that is exactly what this parent did. These pedophiles have destroyed the lives of many children, and their behavior will never change, they will continue until they are locked up for life, or face the fate of this abuser.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)scumbag got what he deserved.
Luciferous
(6,586 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I don't blame the father one bit. Charge him with manslaughter with house detention for 5 years or less.
lies and propaganda
(3,337 posts)Fuck that.
He should not serve one day or have one conviction. He protected his child.
MightyOkie
(68 posts)
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)to kill the guy. He just beat him silly, and the guy died, maybe hit his head or something.
No jury in the country would convict him of anything. I sure wouldn't.
crunch60
(1,412 posts)TheWraith
(24,331 posts)In addition to self-defense, basically every state authorizes citizens to use lethal force to interrupt "forcible felonies." The usual list of what constitutes a forcible felony includes rape, sexual assault, or both. So basically, he would have been completely within the law to kill this man even if it hadn't been his own daughter.
At most, there could be an argument that he used excessive or non-proportional force, since he may have kept hitting once the assailant was subdued. However, that's at best a tenuous claim, and "diminished capacity" is a pretty good defense.
backscatter712
(26,357 posts)If the father caught the guy in the act, and in the span of a few seconds, punched this guy in the head causing his death in the process of getting him off his girl, then that's legitimate self-defense (or a father protecting his daughter.)
If on the other hand, he dragged the guy off, and continuously kicked the shit out of him for twenty minutes after incapacitating him, then that would be murder.
My bet, based on the limited info I have, is that this is self-defense - it happened quickly, the dad caught this pedophile in the act, landed several hard punches on him while dragging him off, and one of those punches happened to be a lucky hit that killed the fucker. No charges, and the world's a better place.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)a period of months in the most medieval fashions imaginable.
If you want to rape babies then you should be taking your chances on a very, very high level and pray to God the cops get you before anyone else.
zappaman
(20,627 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Of any crime. The man who killed that child predator should not be charged with anything. He was protecting his daughter.
There's not a jury in this country that would find this man guilty. Pedophiles are the repulsive to an overwhelming majority Nd no juror would empathize with the pedophile who was killed. I guarantee you that the pedophile who sexually assaulted that child was convinced that the child desired him and he most likely spent some time with her at that family gathering and then determined that she asked for it. Pedophiles have horrendously distorted thinking. Everyone knows how warped that are and the damage they cause to innocent children--there's no prosecutor who would charge this dad and no jury that would fault him for killing the man who was harming his daughter.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)There is no way a TX grand jury indicts.
Zanzoobar
(894 posts)I'm already building a float.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)the dad is remorseful.
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)The only people who are joyful about killing people are psychopaths or those who have no firsthand experience.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)TheWraith
(24,331 posts)The stereotype of the remorseless steely eyed cop/soldier/protector/etcetera gives people the impression that if you kill someone justifiably, you shouldn't have any problems afterward.
The reality is that even hardened cops have been known to have breakdowns or emotional problems because they were forced to kill someone, or because they killed someone in the heat of the moment. You can hear stories about people who shot and killed insane knife-wielding lunatics who were charging at them, and later on they still wish they hadn't had to do it.
(Which is, as an aside, why suicide by cop is such a massively shitheel douchbag behavior that it defies words.)
Cave_Johnson
(137 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:30 PM - Edit history (1)
I don't know about joyful but there are many cases where you don't have to feel bad about it.
Actually, I can think of a few where joyful could be applied as well.
NYC Liberal
(20,453 posts)but I think most sane human beings don't feel good about killing others, even if they were defending themselves or someone else, even if the person killed was a monster.
MattBaggins
(7,948 posts)you are no better than the person you killed and you should be removed from society just as swiftly.
Arkansas Granny
(32,265 posts)SaB2012
(101 posts)It doesn't matter what the victim did. He killed a man and he can't take that back. It's something that will haunt him all the rest of his days.
muriel_volestrangler
(106,132 posts)Maybe he agrees with the 5 Supreme Court justices, or 44 states, that don't think the death penalty is appropriate in such a case. Mayeb he doesn't think it's right for murder either.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)It's just that, if someone did that to my daughter and I killed him during the moment, I don't think I'd feel that remorseful. I could be wrong, though.
crunch60
(1,412 posts)Charles Ng for one, killed and tortured between 11 and 25 people, including a child and his parents. Ng is still on death row. His trial began here in the U.S in 1998.
He is believed to have murdered between 11 and 25 victims with his accomplice Leonard Lake at Lake's ranch in Calaveras County, California, United States. Rape and torture were also used.
Cost of the trial in California- 20 Million dollars.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)talk to a vietnam or iraq combat veteran. A friend was a marine present at the first battle of falluja. He doesn't talk about it except to share that he continues to ask the dead for forgiveness.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)And, as I said, I'm very much anti-death penalty.
I'd feel guilty if I'd killed innocent people during combat, too. They just happened to be born in the wrong country at the wrong time, such as Vietnam or Iraq.
This situation is different. A man raping your own child --wow. Killing in the heat of the moment does seem justified.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)it's the lookback that's the bitch
SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)its been 42 years since Vietnam and every now and then I still wake up from a bad nightmare. It never really goes away.
hardtravelin
(190 posts)SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)and Welcome Home also.
It was a long road but we made it.
crunch60
(1,412 posts)He suffered from what was then called, "shell shock" his entire life. He had a kind heart, and was a devoted, loving family man.
I don't think the atrocities men and women are exposed to during war, ever goes away.
shanti
(21,799 posts)dad was a marine during the korean conflict and he only spoke of killing anyone only once, and it wasn't to me, it was to my brother.
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Sans__Culottes
(92 posts)
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Sans__Culottes
(92 posts)
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)In fact, that is perfectly normal.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)head maybe?
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)even if they richly deserved it. That's a pretty normal reaction afterwards.
I don't think anyone blames this guy for his actions though. I sure don't.
unreadierLizard
(475 posts)I'd feel no remorse at all.
Child molesters should be shot, no mercy or restraint given.
eissa
(4,238 posts)Wish my dad would have done the same.
I'm so, so sorry. 
eissa
(4,238 posts)whose "let's sweep it under the rug and pretend this never happened lest people find out and talk about us" I've never gotten over.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...and my childhood was a similar situation. We didn't have the fathers that we deserved as children, but we can heal and lead joyful, fulfilling lives as adults.
I hope you are doing well. 
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)SaB2012
(101 posts)If so, why? A little girl has possibly been scarred for life, a man is dead, and the killer -- the girl's dad -- may go to prison. Do we really need to turn this tragedy into a commentary on an unrelated incident?
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Zimmerman is going to go to trial and rightly so. However, he could have gotten away with his crime had it not been for the due diligence of Trayvon's family and public outcry. It is more of a reference to hundreds of killings that happen everyday and the criminal claims self defense even though the facts don't seem to fit that assertion. It has been made a lot easier to kill someone with a gun than to defend your daughter in your own home. So, no this isn't about any particular incident.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)Some people don't even deserve to be walking this earth. I hope this little girl is okay.And all the other little girls and boys too.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)If the father was defending his child who was being attacked, and in the process the attacker was killed, it is much the same as self-defense.
SaB2012
(101 posts)Was deadly violence really necessary to stop the abuser?
Marr
(20,317 posts)Just plain old angry punching and kicking can cause death. He hit the man in the head-- he didn't impale him on a spike.
SaB2012
(101 posts)Sit outside a bar parking lot some night at closing. You're bound to see a non-deadly fight. Sorry, but the fact that a punch could cause death does not automatically make it fit the definition of "deadly violence." Take a look at professional boxing. Boxers have occasionally died, but the sport is not considered "deadly violence." If it were, I think the government would shut it down pretty quickly, like they shut down dog fights which typically are deadly.
Marr
(20,317 posts)I know one guy who was permanently crippled in a bareknuckled fight like that.
This guy didn't use a weapon, so I'm not sure why you're insisting that plain old hand-to-hand fighting isn't deadly. Obviously it is.
SaB2012
(101 posts)Want to take the gloves out of the equation? Fine. How about "ultimate" fighting, then? Not only do they not wear gloves, but they kick and knee each other and engage in strangleholds.
There are still rules prevent serious injuries.
I'm not sure what you're arguing here. You're saying that just regular fighting isn't deadly, in a thread about a guy who was killed by being repeatedly punched in the head? I mean, you started out asking if the guy really needed to employ deadly violence... which was his hands. Now you're insisting that fighting with your hands isn't particularly dangerous?
SaB2012
(101 posts)Either punching is always "deadly violence" or it's not. I doubt that you consider boxing or "ultimate fighting" to be "deadly violence" even though by your fast-and-loose definition it is. After-closing fights outside of bars hardly ever result in "attempted murder" charges.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Which is why amatures wear headgear as well.
The glove were likely adopted to reduce the amount of blood.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)It was raw animal instinct set loose in response to seeing his child endangered.
I can imagine flying into such a rage myself and then, once my more rational self returned, I could also imagine wishing I had not killed the person.
SaB2012
(101 posts)But we still are thinking creatures capable of overriding feelings of "raw animal instinct." As a father myself, I can completely understand how he could have flown into such a rage and killed this man, but understanding does not equate to condoning. It's still wrong and I'm glad he knows it. I feel very sorry that this situation resulted in so many victims: the girl, the abuser and the father. There's simply no way to look at it rationally and think there is anything positive that came out of it.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Only his fists. Unless he was a black belt, not a deadly weapon.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Six percent of all murders are committed with hands or feet. That may not sound like a lot, but it's twice as many as are committed with every rifle in every house in the United States. Even if not intended to be lethal, a bare-handed assault can still be deadly.
SaB2012
(101 posts)I don't see the word "is."
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)So do about the same number of stabbing victims. It's harder than most people think to kill a human being.
It's also a LOT harder than most people think to incapacitate a human being WITHOUT killing them or almost killing them. Case in point you can go through war histories and find plenty of stories of guys getting shot, sometimes two, three, four times, still participating in the battle, and surviving. You've probably heard of one guy who went on to a long and healthy life after getting shot four times with an AK47: former presidential candidate General Wes Clark.
People are accustomed from TV and movies to think that it's easy and safe to, for instance, knock a person out with one or two punches. The reality is that it's neither safe nor easy, and if you DO manage to knock someone out, the line between them being out and being dead or a vegetable is thinner than most people ever imagine. That's why career boxers are basically signing up to be turnips later in life, and that's with a lot of safety and padding. So by the time you finally succeed in punching out the person who's threatening you or your family, you may have already killed them by accident.
Guns and knives were designed to kill. Fists? Not so much.
MiddleFingerMom
(25,163 posts).
.
.
... had divorced her first husband several years before because he was physically
abusing her. She thought she would never be able to trust a man again.
.
To our surprise, she came in one night and announced that she had been dating a
man for a year and had just married him. Less than a week later, she got home from
work to find that he had sexually abused her preschool daughter (to the point of
injury).
.
She called 911. The little girl was rushed to the hospital (she survived) and the man
was taken to jail.
.
It was a relatively small town. The woman's father took his shotgun, went down to
the station, leveled it at the only police officer working onsite that night, and
DEMANDED to be taken back to the cell. He stood there pointing the shotgun at the
man at point-blank range for a good two minutes, trying to pull those triggers. He
eventually broke down and sobbed. The officer took the shotgun gently, called a
patrol car and had the father taken to his daughter's house. No charges were ever
filed.
.
Many of our troops have PTSD because of the terrible aftershocks of having taken a
human life. Police officers, even when the officer has saved his/her own life and/or the
lives of others by killing a perp, NEED counseling/therapy to deal with the massive
emotional aftershocks (whether they admit it to others or not).
.
Kill without remorse? Even on DU, I'm reminded of the seemingly endless numbers of
Internet Tough Guys that are out there.
.
My heart goes out to the little girl and her father... and all the family and others so
horribly affected by this devastating event.
.
.
.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)
spin
(17,493 posts)another person.
The aftereffects are horrific and even if you avoid the legal expenses involved in a trial you will probably have psychological problems that will haunt you for the rest of your life.
There are times when killing another person is justified. Fortunately such situations are rare.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)A fair fraction of draftees do not fire for effect in the first battle. After they have seen their friends die, their reluctance often disappears.
I recall a Korean vet describing rather proudly how his squad caught a unit of North Koreans on a road between two paddies and picked them all off. So attitudes vary.
MiddleFingerMom
(25,163 posts).
.
.
... in any normal person's life, whether "justified" or not. And PTSD can be the result
of a series of long-standing traumatic events OR one single EXTREMELY traumatic event.
.
.
.
From the website of "Tears Of A Cop", a nonprofit organization dedicated to informing
people about the stresses of police work.
.
"If we take a quick overview of police work and look at the research of what the biggest stressors are, we find:
.
Killing someone in the line of duty.
.
Having your partner killed in the line of duty.
.
Lack of support by the department/bosses.
.
Shiftwork and disruption of family time/family rituals.
.
The daily grind of dealing with the stupidity of the public, or the "asshole factor".
.
Interestingly, physical danger is ranked low on the list of stressors by police officers."
.
.
.
The following is part of a first-person account of an officer who killed an armed felon
who had attempted to kill him AND his partner in 1975. He refers to what would become
known as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as "Post Shooting Trauma":
.
.
.
"Many people think there is nothing wrong with killing someone who is trying to kill you. In fact, some are even envious. They desire the hero status that is heaped upon you, while they go about performing their mundane everyday tasks. Legally they are correct. There is nothing wrong with killing someone who is attempting to murder you. That is why, when the facts are investigated and presented to the Grand Jury, you are not indicted for homicide. The Grand Jury, a body of your supposed peers, listens and decides the taking of such a life was necessary and justified , and therefore everything is alright.
.
Post Shooting Trauma is the internalization of stress following a shooting. (1) It is a combination of stress, fear, confusion and anxiety. It usually sets in after your moral beliefs and reality come in conflict. Killing someone preys on your subconscious. Killing someone conflicts with every moral belief you have been indoctrinated with by significant others. Thou shalt not kill. All civilized societies consider life as being sacred and precious. If life is so precious, how do we justify to ourselves morally, the taking of a life? This is the moral conflict that must be resolved, or Post Shooting Trauma will remain a never ending problem."
.
.
.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)The lady doth protest too much.
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)
geardaddy
(25,392 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Or so I've been told.
SaB2012
(101 posts)But to the point of killing another person when no one's life was being threatened? As I said below, I can understand this father's emotions about this horrific act against his daughter, but was it really the father's right to play judge, jury and executioner for this non-fatal crime?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)SaB2012
(101 posts)So then how can you possibly condemn anyone else's actions when they play judge, jury and executioner in any other matter? Perhaps we should just throw out all the laws and go back to "a life for an eye" and "a life for a tooth." If someone knocks out one of my teeth, who are you to say that it would be wrong if I killed them in return? It's my fricking tooth!!!
You'd think I was condoning the abusers actions.
Whiskeytide
(4,654 posts)... hold the father - or any person in that circumstance - to the standard you seem to be inferring. Its easy for all of us to sit around the next day and second guess the father's actions, and act like we would somehow rise above the gut reaction he acted upon. The truth is, most of us probably wouldn't. He expressed regret that he killed the man - saying that he didn't mean to. That's a very reasonable reaction, and tells me a lot about him as well. If he were parading around now saying "Yeah, I killed his ass, and I'd do it again", that would tell a different story.
Unless evidence comes to light to refute the dad's story, I'd say close this one with a sigh of relief that some unknown child will not be abused by this particular asshole in the future.
SaB2012
(101 posts)And that would be the law. The law doesn't draw such distinctions and only takes the issue of the father's frame of mind into account in determining the severity of the punishment (e.g. 1st degree murder vs. 2nd degree murder vs. manslaughter).
I'd say close this one with a sigh of relief that some unknown child will not be abused by this particular asshole in the future.
Okay, so what's to stop people using that reasoning (such as it is) in killing those engaged in lesser crimes? Drunk drivers injure and kill a LOT of people every year and many of them are repeat offenders. Perhaps we should justify punching them on the spot until they are dead so that no one will ever be injured or killed by drunk drivers again.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that would find this man guilty, so the law is a moot point here. Also, I seriously doubt that any DA would even charge the man, so again, the law is a moot point.
He was defending his child. He is remorseful that he killed the man. Here's a different question - what would you think of a man that DIDN'T attempt to defend his child when she was being sexually assaulted?
The story doesn't say that he repeatedly beat the hell out of the man - it just says that he accidentally killed the man when he caught him sexually assaulting his daughter.
Do you have children? The most dangerous person in the world is a parent protecting their children. It's instinctual. I think you are espousing a standard that would be very difficult for anyone to live up to, and until you have been in that situation personally, I honestly think you don't know HOW you would react. It's easy to play armchair psychologist after the fact.
Whiskeytide
(4,654 posts)... but I've been out of town.
My reference was to these particular facts. I would not advocate a policy for taking the law into one's own hands. But, using your example, if a drunk jumped the sidewalk and struck my 4 year old, in the heat of the moment (after recognizing that he was drunk), I would probably react aggressively, and might even take a swing at him. I understand that such action could backfire on me (maybe it was a medical condition I mistook for drunkeness), but I probably wouldn't have the state of mind to consider that.
That was all I was saying. I don't fault the guy for his reaction. And, yes, there is some solace in the fact that a pedophile/predator has been removed form the world. Its usually tragic when any life is lost, but pedophiles who prey on preschool children are pretty low on my "give a shit" meter. Just my 2 cents.
frylock
(34,825 posts)and while i am very outspoken about being against the death penalty, i really have no issue with the actions taken by the father. i just hope he is able achieve some normalcy in his life.
the young girl's life was very much in danger..
Is that something you could prove beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law or are you just spouting b.s.? It is a fact that most child molesters do not kill their victims.
really have no issue with the actions taken by the father.
As horrific as the crime was, the punishment didn't fit the crime.
i just hope he is able achieve some normalcy in his life.
Given the fact that people like police officers, who are highly trained to use deadly force when necessary to stop others threatening deadly force, never achieve normalcy after they are forced to kill a suspect, don't count on it.
frylock
(34,825 posts)i'm sure you would've reacted in a calm, controlled manner, right? is that what you're telling me? that you would know EXACTLY how you would react under the same circumstances?
not really inclined to go the mat with you over some bullshit like this, so i'll bid you a good day.
SaB2012
(101 posts)i'm sure you would've reacted in a calm, controlled manner, right?
Probably not, but that doesn't excuse this killing of another human being. Please learn how to make logically sound arguments.
not really inclined to go the mat with you over some bullshit like this, so i'll bid you a good day.
The b.s. is all yours, dearie. Have a good one. I'll leave taking satisfaction in the fact that you ultimately failed miserably to back up your b.s. about this girl's life being threatened. "Good day" indeed!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)She was being sexually assaulted and is 4 years old! What about that ISN'T life threatening?
You must be joking!
SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)but you sure are condemning the fathers actions. If I had caught anyone molesting my kids, I probably would have done the same thing, the father probably can claim temp. insanity and it would be justified.
SaB2012
(101 posts)And a jury would likely agree. Heck, if I were on the jury I would likely agree! That doesn't mean that the killing is acceptable, however. Justifiability does not equate to acceptability. Ask any combat veteran about that.
2 tours Vietnam, Operation Just Cause, Desert Shield/Desert Storm. I disagree, killing can be an acceptable outcome if your life or the life of a loved one is in danger which is justified homicide. We weren't there, so for all we know, the father may have felt that his daughter was in imminent deadly danger and we don't know if the POS fought back or not.
Just my 2 cents.
xmas74
(30,051 posts)I would have slit the abuser's throat without a thought otherwise-until the investigation had wrapped and I was alone.
I know I could do it if need be and do it without flinching in the moment. It's the after-one day, one week, six months, five years down the road that would affect me. Still, as someone who is against the death penalty I think the father's actions are justified. Fists can kill, especially if a "lucky" shot is landed. In the end, it'll be considered justified.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)he just beat him silly. The wussy guy happened to die...maybe hit his head or something. I say he's a wussy guy because those are the kinds of guys who molest little kids.
When you molest little kids, you assume the risk of being hurt or killed by decent people who find out. It's part of the risk of doing the "hobby" of harming children.
pecwae
(8,021 posts)wouldn't have escalated into murder? How can a 4 year old protect herself?
Yes, it's a parents duty to protect their children even to the point of killing a grown man molesting a baby.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)I find your high on the mountaintop moralizing disgusting and probably dishonest shielded and buffered by detachment.
You tell the people that suicide as a result of this kind of violent and dehumanizing acts that it is non-fatal, hell there are worst things than death even putting that to the side.
I have every bit of confidence that my survivor of molestation mother would not even hesitate to have have defended me and my sisters and put down any fucking monster that dared commit the same violation.
Don't want to get killed then please refrain from raping the babies or make damn sure the cops get you first.
Dad's guilt is understandable because he is a decent soul but he is a hero for removing a threat to our kind and doing his sacred duty of protecting his child.
siligut
(12,272 posts)Sadly, they are too few and far between.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)There is no lower form of life. No wonder everyone is celebrating.
Response to MrSlayer (Reply #24)
Post removed
unreadierLizard
(475 posts)They're scum of the earth and should be chemically castrated for the first offence, life imprisonment or put to death for the second.
Marr
(20,317 posts)The attraction isn't, but the act itself is. Pedophilia is not comparable to homosexuality (can't believe I'm having to type that here), as it involves two consenting adults. Pedophilia is the sexual abuse of a child.
piedmont
(3,462 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)If you are an adult, fully able to control your mental faculties, you have the choice to not victimize children, regardless of your attractions. Its not even remotely comparable to being gay in any way, shape or form. Gay people don't, in general, go around forcing or molesting people of the same gender to engage in sexual acts.
I'm all for acknowledging that some people have a screw loose when it comes to what gets them off. But most of these same people are fully capable of controlling it and full capable of NOT harming children. So in that sense, yes, it is a choice. They choose to act on it. And its a choice that should be punished severely.
SaB2012
(101 posts)But as a father myself, I can certainly understand the emotions that would drive the father to do this.
Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)he caught him in the act with his daughter. That's terrible.
Iggo
(49,909 posts)I would expect to be punished accordingly, though.
I'd take years in jail for stopping a sexual (or any assault) on my daughter.
I don't know that he deserves actual jail time, though. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)He caught the guy in the act. He used his fists to get the guy off his daughter - and I imagine he even intended a few of those punches as punishment and I don't blame him - but he did not reach for a weapon and I bet a million dollars he didn't think he could punch a guy hard enough to kill him. You just don't think that can happen when punching - especially in the heat of the moment of finding a guy sexually assaulting your 4 your old daughter.
So it isn't a case of "he sentenced a rapist to die" - it is a case of he protected his daughter and a guy died because he chose to sexually assault a 4 year old girl.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)the small child? And she'd ended up in a ditch somewhere?
It's awful to contemplate the many more victims this person would have made over time, and has probably already created with his sick choices.
I hate to say it, but I am with those who admit they might be capable of doing the same as the father in this situation.
May the father and the daughter heal from this trauma.
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)I don't have too much of a problem with this.
jp11
(2,104 posts)The comments in this thread alone are pretty repulsive.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)I'm sure that everyone will quickly run out and feel horrible over supporting a father rescuing his child from abuse.
jp11
(2,104 posts)It is only through someone else showing you the errors of your ways can anyone hope to better themselves.
However there is little actual support of the father just some snide comments and internet tough guy/violence admiration about acting out the righteous protection fantasy for a child.
People should feel horrible or at least question themselves for that kind of thinking/feeling. Nothing wrong with wanting to hurt someone for doing that to a child but another thing when some revel in an outcome that has a child sexually assaulted, the perpetrator dead and the father of the child stuck with another person's death on his head.
HotRodTuna
(114 posts)Thanks for the moralistic lecture. In case you haven't noticed, you're in the severe minority on this one. Please, tell me how I "should feel horrible" about being pleased that a father protected his daughter, and not at all sad that the pervert got swift justice.
jp11
(2,104 posts)become the majority who was right and when? Just being with the majority doesn't make your side right any more than being in the minority but nice to see that's how you seem to think. If you ever decide to read about history this will become abundantly clear to you.
I already explained how one 'should feel horrible' in the post you replied to, read it again maybe you'll get it on the second time.
And the father sadly didn't 'protect his daughter' as so many here claim. The father, the mother, and their friends, etc all failed to do exactly that. If they had protected the child then the kid wouldn't have been assaulted by the pervert. What the father did was interrupt the abuse by attacking the pervert repeatedly resulting in his death, perhaps he was more focused with 'rage' on punishing/hurting this person than removing his daughter from that physical space, who knows I don't have details. But trying to spin the facts of your majority position with crap like 'protecting the child' and 'justice was served' is just BS intended to play to the emotional aspects in this very sensitive issue.
Finally the pervert didn't get swift justice he was killed, if you think it is justice to kill someone absent any due process on the basis of one person biased towards the situation and in front of a minor child, you have issues far larger than the horse ascribed to me.
You are sincerely welcome for the lecture. I highly doubt any of it will get through to you or your majority.
HotRodTuna
(114 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)I am ok with the fact that at least this one predator won't hurt anyone ever again.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)There are risks that come with all activities. If you gamble, you assume the risk of losing money. If you are a burglar, you assume the risk of being caught and sent to prison, or even killed by a homeowner. If you molest children, you assume the risk of being hurt or killed by decent people who find out.
The wuss got what he deserved. Pedophilia isn't curable. At least we know that other children will be spared from damage caused by the perv...damage that lasts a lifetime.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)I'd hate to think the father killed him and just made up some story afterwards, because that has happened before...
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)But they will be investigating. It's being turned over to the DA.
tawadi
(2,110 posts)Otherwise, I wouldn't have posted this in LBN.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)And that he is telling the truth, which seems to be presumed (due to the horrendous nature of the charge).
Throd
(7,208 posts)I would have punched the son-of-a-bitch in the head too.
Then in jail I would feel horrible about the whole situation.
I'm not a killer, but if I catch you harming my girls, I really have no idea what I would do to stop it. I just know it would not be pretty.
Pisces
(6,224 posts)no problem with a father protecting his family. They can also understand the the base animal instinct to protect your young at any cost.
I hope he can get past it.
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)so people were outside for the most part. But at cookouts, people roam around, go inside and outside, go to the bathroom, etc.
He was a friend of the family, as is so often the case.
Bettie
(19,655 posts)However, if I came upon someone doing this to one of my children, I cannot say I would take the peaceful way around it.
The man was protecting his child. I'm glad he feels remorse for what he did in the heat of the moment.
I cannot condemn his actions.
NoodleyAppendage
(4,625 posts)I wonder which would be more injurious to a 4 year old? Either way I suspect long-term psychological problems. You can't tell me that a 4 year old will process the visuals of her father physically punching in a guys face and neck in a positive way.
J
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)and beat him silly to protect you.
You need to read up on the effects of sex abuse. It lasts a lifetime, and most often one of the effects is that you think you caused it, you are to blame, you are bad, things like that don't happen to good children, you deserved it, etc.
Seeing your father protect you in a violent way would not be harming at all, to me.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)He didn't use a weapon, used only his fists, was not thinking straight, and is remorseful. Those are major qualifiers there, I don't see a jury even hitting him with a manslaughter charge.
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)Meiko
(1,076 posts)I doubt it very much if he will face any charges. I believe that he is remorseful, he killed another human being and some have very deep feelings about that even if the guy was a scum bag. I certainly hope the little girl is OK.
SecurityManager
(124 posts)and he fully understood the wrath he was getting!
Chock one up for the good guys!
H2O Man
(79,007 posts)As a father, if I see a rabid dog coming after one of my daughters, my responsibility is to put the dog down. I'm not going to sit and ponder if that dog had a tough puppyhood, or if I should take it to a rabies clinic for counseling. I'm going to kill it.
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)Spoonman
(1,761 posts)Let me clear something up for you.
The dead man was RAPING the little girl.
He wasn't fondling her or exposing himself to her, he was RAPING her.
Get it?
The father landed a punch to the shit-bag's temple that killed him.
You obviously don't have children.
If you did, you would understand the complete loss of control YOU would experience if you walked in a room and found a man ON TOP OF YOUR DAUGHTER RAPING HER!!!!!!!!
If you do have children........... I'll refrain from commenting further out of respect for the rules. (DU's and common civility)
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)And ask for leniency. It's the civilized way.
Spoonman
(1,761 posts)For those of you wanting the father prosecuted, you might want to get something REALLY clear.
The dead man was not "sexually assaulting" the little girl, he was RAPING her!!!!!!!!!!!!
He wasn't fondling her, kissing her, or exposing himself to her.
HE WAS RAPING HER.
The father caught him in the act, and administered a justifiable shit kicking.
Too bad for the piece of shit rapist that caught a punch to the temple!
Fuck him, and good riddance!
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Precisely. Two victims are much more preferable to one.
AngryOldDem
(14,180 posts)Once again all the armchair experts weigh in, because they know exactly what happened and how they would have responded.
Sorry...a few rounds of "Kumbaya" and a few pleas to "Come, let us reason together" were not called for here.
The man clearly had no intent to kill; rather, to save his daughter. The fallout is what it is. Oh well.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... I, like most fathers, would probably do exactly the same thing. Mess with a child, ESPECIALLY sexually, you deserve what ever happens to you.
rateyes
(17,460 posts)because of the father's reaction. As a father of 3 daughters,all I would have to say to the father is "thank you!"
Bake
(21,977 posts)But if I were the father in this case, me and my two friends, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson, would blow this fucker away, no questions asked, no remorse, just good freakin' riddance.
I'm a father of two daughters. I dare you to put me on trial. There's not a jury on the planet that will convict me.
When I took Criminal Law in law school, the prof said that in Texas and Tennessee, when there's a homicide, they ask two questions: (1) Did you kill him, and (2) did he need killing? This sumbitch needed killing.
I'd do it in the blink of an eye.
Bake
TBF
(36,562 posts)be the logical response, but dad isn't thinking logically when he finds his 4-yr old being molested.
As a side point, here in Texas we are held responsible for our children. For example every year I have to sign documents indicating I will make sure my kids attend their school, under threat of being arrested if I do not. If I can be arrested for not getting my kids to school, I sure as hell better be allowed to defend them if someone is attacking them.
Glad he's in Texas - a jury of our peers here will not convict him. He and his daughter will suffer a long time just by the actions of the day. The molester is the criminal here, not the daughter and her dad.
SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)and I think the father could claim temp. insanity as a defense if charges are filed. I know if I caught someone raping any of my 3 daughters, I would be go insane and probably do the same thing. I would definitely feel remorse later on but not while I'm beating the shit to death.
Lucy Goosey
(2,940 posts)I think this is one of those situations where one's adrenalin would kick in like crazy - I'd bet he literally didn't know his own strength while he was beating that asshole.
As you say, he certainly wasn't thinking logically, and nor should he have been expected to be.
backscatter712
(26,357 posts)Adrenaline kicks in, the frontal lobes are disconnected, the reptile brain takes over, and you're running on pure instinct.
Chances are good that this guy showed strength like the Incredible Hulk, punched him multiple times over a span of 15 seconds, got a freak hit in that hemorrhaged the pedo's brain, and when it was all over, the dad's looking at his screaming daughter, a pedo scumfuck bleeding on the ground, wondering what the fuck just happened.
midnight
(26,624 posts)family....
SGMRTDARMY
(599 posts)maybe some of our TX. comrades can answer that.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)to "Prevent or stop the commission of a Felony", also under Texas Law the Rape, or Attempted Rape of a child is a felony.
All Capitol Cases in Texas go before a Grand Jury, if you are "no billed" then no charges would be made. In this case it would be called"Justifiable Homicide", the accused is then free to continue his life.
As a side note, under Texas Law once you have been no billed, or found not guilty in a trial you can not be sued for the act under Civil Law.
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)Not shooting an unarmed teenager with a hoodie
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)some skittles and some tea.
Chuuku Davis
(607 posts)He deserves a medal.
"Remorse" WTF??
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Sheriff Harmon said the father and daughter were at their barn with several other people to groom and care for horses. The 47-year-old man came with some of the other people, but was not known to the father and child.
The 47-year-old man reportedly took the girl into some pasture behind the barn. Another child saw the sexual assault happening and ran to tell the girl’s father.
Sheriff Harmon said as the girl’s father was pulling the 47-year-old man away from the child, when he hit the man several times in the head and killed him.
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)I hate perverts
tawadi
(2,110 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)tawadi
(2,110 posts)I kicked it a week ago. Maybe because of this thread?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014147707