Patrick Stewart: "We (the UK) don't need any lectures from the Frogs and the Krauts"...[sarc]

[Surya Gayatri]

"We invented human rights for godssake. We should be writing our own Bill of Rights and foisting it on the Europeans"

...

"Umm, we already have, sir."

...

"We have? What's it called?"

...

"The European Convention on Human Rights".

Oh, the breathtaking, head-shaking irony...

[Exilednight]

1. I love Patrick Stewart. He's one of the few people in the

Entertainment industry who is politically active and has a brain. (Matt Damon is the only other one I can think of)

Domestic violence is his pet cause, and he's very ardent about seeking help and trying to fix both ends of the domestic violence spectrum. He not only helps women get out of abusive relationships, he works at getting help for those that commit the violence.

[Glassunion]

49. I have such a man crush on him...

[TubbersUK]

51. Fab! n/t

[merrily]

2. Our bill of rights was based on the Magna Carta.

[Surya Gayatri]

4. That's the stark irony...the reviled "European Convention on Human Rights",

which was a "LEAVE" rallying cry of the Brexit forces because of its so-called "interference" in UK internal affairs, was framed and founded on British Common Law.

[merrily]

6. The Magna Carta was not common law.

[Surya Gayatri]

8. It is the early founding reference for Common Law.

[merrily]

10. Not really.

[msanthrope]

11. Yes, really. I don't know that I'd keep arguing against the historical origins of due process, but

I'm fascinated by this.

[merrily]

12. Common law predates the Magna Carta. (No clue who is arguing against due process.)

[msanthrope]

17. Yes. But that wasn't the poster's point. I think you clearly missed that. nt

[merrily]

18. See Replies 6 and 8.

[msanthrope]

22. Ah...there is your problem. You didn't understand the context. "Founding reference."

Since you are the one having trouble with the post, why not explain to us what you took the phrase "Founding reference" to mean?

[merrily]

24. Since you claim to understand it and you also claim I didn't, your "request" seems bizarre. Pass.

I tired of posting games some time ago.

[msanthrope]

29. Well....you claim the poster is using a word she is not using.

I think that is proof positive that you do not understand her post.

[merrily]

31. I quoted her words, and please see Reply 30. Thanks.

[msanthrope]

33. Thank you for proving my point with that quotation. nt

[Surya Gayatri]

13. As an iconic symbol, yes

http://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/magna-carta-in-the-modern-age

http://www.skwirk.com/p-c_s-1_u-105_t-279_c-929/causes-and-effects-of-the-magna-carta/nsw/causes-and-effects-of-the-magna-carta/introduction-to-democracy/democratic-development

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/195qwi/how_much_did_english_common_law_influence_current/

https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/magna-carta-muse-and-mentor/magna-carta-and-the-us-constitution.html

The symbolism of Magna Carta

Such confusion — iconoclasm, even — is understandable in a nation that puts its trust in people rather than in paper. The British have never codified their constitution because most people think that writing it down would not achieve very much. Magna Carta may vie with the English language itself for the title of Britain’s greatest gift to the world, but its place in the laws of England and Wales is largely symbolic.

[merrily]

14. It's iconic, but that does not mean common law was founded on it. None of your links

seem to support your original claim, either.

[Surya Gayatri]

15. What original claim would that be?

This one?

"...the reviled "European Convention on Human Rights", which was a "LEAVE" rallying cry of the BREXIT forces because of its so-called "interference" in UK internal affairs, was framed and founded on British Common Law."

You disagree? How so?

[merrily]

16. The one you made in your Reply 8. You've been posting here long enough to follow a subthread.

[msanthrope]

19. Sura never said common law was founded on the MC. You seem to be conflating the concepts

of foundation and reference.

[merrily]

20. Her post 8, in its entirety: "It {the Magna Carta} is the early founding reference for Common Law."

[msanthrope]

25. You seem confused by the difference between "foundation"

and "founding reference." The former word she does not use.... the latter phrase she does.

[merrily]

30. Still not interested in playing your game.

[Surya Gayatri]

21. Not always easy following sub-threads. Not always easy responding to

vague non sequiturs, either.

What does this affirmation on the US Bill of rights:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027966316#post2

have to do with the enormous irony of the European Convention on Human Rights, based on British Common Law, being the expressed enemy of the BREXIT campaign?

Bizarre interjection.

[msanthrope]

23. I think the poster is confused as to what "Founding reference " means in this context.....

I'm seeking clarification above.

[Surya Gayatri]

26. It would seem that there is some confusion, yes.

Let me know if any clarification is forthcoming!

[msanthrope]

27. Well.....when I pointed out you never used the word she is claiming you did, she passed. nt

[Surya Gayatri]

35. No surprise, I'm afraid. Much quick-drawing from that direction.

[msanthrope]

37. Leaving the sandbox seems the current tactic. nt

[Surya Gayatri]

40. Boom! Mic drop! LOL!

[merrily]

28. It was a point of info relating to one of the first lines of your OP

"We invented human rights for godssake. We should be writing our own Bill of Rights and foisting it on the Europeans"

If you thought it off topic, you should have said that, instead of going on and on about common law, which you don't seem to know much about.

[Surya Gayatri]

34. That was a quote from the sketch, spoken by Patrick Stewart,

obviously referring to the venerable tradition of British Common Law (not the US Bill of Rights, as you mistakenly deduced), inspired and informed by the iconic Magna Carta.

[malaise]

41. Did British Common Law ever apply to the 'colonies'?

Spare me please.

Ask the Indian weavers whose hands they chopped off. Ask the Mau Mau in Kenya - ask the millions of slaves and indigenous people who were slaughtered. Ask Paul Bogle.

Ask all the anti-colonials leaders they slaughtered and imprisoned.

It's all bullshit

[Surya Gayatri]

43. Sorry? What does the egregious flouting of British Common Law

in its far-flung empire (for mostly mercenary motives) have to do with the indisputable fact that this same body of law underpins and informs the European Convention on Human Rights?

Are you contending that the Convention is bullshit? That the principles enshrined in Common Law are bullshit?

Or, are you simply saying that the Brits often fail to live up to their own high ideals?

Your broadside is energetic, but its target is not clear.

[malaise]

46. They all failed to live up to those ideals

The principles are fine but they didn't apply to non-whites

[Surya Gayatri]

47. Couldn't agree more, absolutely spot on...BUT, that does not

answer the question or clarify why the failure to apply Common Law to POC in the British colonies makes bullshit of the British Common Law-inspired European Convention on Human Rights.

This seems a specious argument: that because the principles of British Common Law have often been egregiously breached in practice, that they are necessarily a bullshit foundation for the EU Convention.

[mythology]

52. That can be said about pretty much any society

Humanity's best trait isn't playing well with others.

[underpants]

3. Very funny but it reminds me of .Monty Python's "Life of Brian"

What have the Romans ever done for US?

[JHB]

9. It reminded me of a different one...

[Shankapotomus]

32. If you watch the credits

There's a nod to Monty Python.

[underpants]

39. Ah

Didn't see that. Thanks.

[DeadLetterOffice]

5. I love this sketch.

Patrick Stewart does irony SO well.

[Surya Gayatri]

7. Nobody could've done it so well. I'll bet he wrote the script, too. Quintessentially British.

[TubbersUK]

36. K & R n/t

[geardaddy]

38. I saw this a few months ago.

Hilarious!

[Indydem]

42. Someone care to explain...

How the ECHR "gave" these rights to the UK?

They already had those rights. So did most, if not all members of the EU.

So, I get the idea of why this is supposed to be funny, except none of the things touted were originated in the ECHR.

[Surya Gayatri]

45. That's the whole point. The Brits lent their principles of law to the EU Convention.

The anti-EU Brexit gang used that same document to excoriate the EUs so-called "interference" in British affairs.

Can you not see the stark irony? Seriously?

[TubbersUK]

48. Brexit touted the ECHR as an example

of the EU imposing European ( i.e. foreign) values on the UK.

When in fact, the truth is pretty much the opposite of that, if anything.

[Solly Mack]

44. K&R

[Native]

50. K&R