Concern troll pretends to support but uses "concern" to hurt morale (GD)

[Her Sister]

Concern Troll is concerned:
In an argument (usually a political debate), a concern troll is someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with "concerns". The idea behind this is that your opponents will take your arguments more seriously if they think you're an ally.

A concern troll will pretend to care (about the opponent's health, well being, political activism, lifestyle, choices, etc.) while in reality, he or she only wants to cause self doubt and fear. A concern troll tries to undermine that which he or she pretends to support.

http://concerntroll.tumblr.com/
?

What Is Concern Trolling? Watch Out For This Subtle Form Of Shaming
Urban Dictionary defines a concern troll as "someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with 'concerns.'" In other words, it's someone who pretends to support you but couches their disagreements in the form of "concerns," which allows them to justify criticism as the result of worrying about you. "I'm on your side," they say, "but you shouldn't do X, Y, and Z. It looks bad to some people — not that I agree, but I thought you should know."

http://www.bustle.com/articles/144447-what-is-concern-trolling-watch-out-for-this-subtle-form-of-shaming

Wikipedia:

A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/1/632558/-

concern troll
A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern%20troll

Enter the Concern Troll

But I think it touches on a larger trend in opinionating.

Enter The Concern Troll.

There are two ways of disagreeing with someone. One is to disagree openly. The other is to say, “I support you, but you’re doing it wrong.”

The second is insidious.

The second is condescending, insincere, manipulative. It even says so in the Urban Dictionary definition.

The darkest moment is always just after the concern trolls start pouring in.

“I’m with you,” the concern troll says. “But surely you must see how this looks to people. Not me, of course. But other people. They might think horrible things of you. People might think you were self-centered, fat, slow, rude. Not me, of course. I’m with you. I have your best interests at heart. That’s why I want to warn you. I, you see, know how this ought to be done.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2014/01/13/enter-the-concern-troll/

Dems: Ignore 'concern trolls By Markos Moulitsas - 01/09/08 11:40 AM EST

In the blog world we call this “concern trolling” — offering a poisoned apple in the form of advice to political opponents that, if taken, would harm the recipient.

http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/markos-moulitas/24407-dems-ignore-concern-trolls


Here from Geek Feminism Wiki but we can apply to any topic/group !

A Concern troll:
A concern troll is a person who participates in a debate posing as an actual or potential ally who simply has some concerns they need answered before they will ally themselves with a cause. In reality they are a critic. Concern trolling in geek feminism communities can result in continual reversion to Feminism 101 discussions in attempts to appease the troll's concerns, frustrating attempts at more serious discussion. Concern trolls are not always self-aware; they may also view themselves as potential allies who have just, oddly, never met a feminist opinion they liked.

Concern trolls can be identified primarily because they will retreat from, rather than engage with or be convinced by, answers to the questions they pose. They may repeatedly ask a certain question in feminist discussions without ever absorbing or replying to answers from previous discussions. They will often back into typical anti-feminist arguments, such as expressing concern that an argument is too "extreme" or a feminist too "strident" or even "hysterical". Another common tactic is insisting that some subjects are more important than others, for example, that media depictions of women shouldn't be criticised while violence against women continues.

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Concern_troll

How do you respond?
?

[baldguy]

1. On full display every day on DU.

I thought we were going to be done with this shit after June 20.

[Scientific]

2. Well, I'm concerned about full displays

for sure. And also concerned about Chem Trolls. There's a lot to be concerned about.

[Her Sister]

4. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat!?

lol!

[newthinking]

64. I am more concerned about the chem bots

that plague this site.

We really need a rule to root them out.

[Her Sister]

3. The good good thing is that we know about it!

When you know something it loses it's intended effect on you. When you know someone is trying to pull one on you, it doesn't work as well. Inside you are laughing at their lame efforts.

Life is too precious to fall for the "concerns" of the "concern" troll.

[Her Sister]

14. More: What is Concern Trolling?

Concern trolling is a form of Internet trolling in which someone enters a discussion with claims that he or she supports the view of the discussion, but has concerns. In fact, the concern troll is opposed to the view of the discussion, and he or she uses concern trolling to sow doubt and dissent in the community of commenters or posters. Although this practice originated on the Internet, it has since spread to the real world as well, with concern trolls popping up in a variety of places from network television to op-ed columns.

Artful concern trolling involves developing a believable persona as a supporter of a cause who has legitimate concerns. In an example of concern trolling, a group of people might be having a political discussion on a website about a candidate they support. The concern troll would log on and say “I'm concerned that this candidate might not be strong enough to beat the opposition,” or “I'm worried that the candidate's history in the legislature might be a problem in the election.”

Once a concern troll has sowed dissent or discord, often he or she can sit back and let the other commenters do the rest of the work. When a concern troll has done the job correctly, the discussion will split, factions will emerge, and support for the cause will have eroded. Concern trolling can also be highly distracting, as people band together to oppose the concern troll, rather than discussing serious issues, including valid concerns which should be addressed

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-concern-trolling.htm

[PatrickforO]

60. One other thought here.

To simply label people who have sometimes legitimate concerns about something as trolls is not always true.

For instance, on this gun control issue, I'm all for universal background checks, but have mixed feelings about the 'no fly no buy' idea. Why? Because last time I read the Bill of Rights I was presumed innocent until proven guilty with the onus of proof on the government. With the Patriot Act, which I have NO mixed feelings about, but am virulently against, we have basically given up our Bill of Rights in favor of being 'safe.' Think about who makes the most profits when fear becomes a normal condition for us as a people. This is why the condition has been and is being so carefully cultivated.

On the TPP, since I've read it, I have no real concerns - there is NO ambiguity. I'm totally against it, and believe it is the biggest corporate piece of shit that has been foisted off on working people since NAFTA. And, what has been hilarious to me is that while some do estimate that the USA lost upwards of 800,000 jobs due to NAFTA, if you say that the immediate response is, "No we didn't! That's absurd! That's been proven wrong!" OK...so it's actually 600,000. That is still pretty bad, don't you think? Because most of the jobs lost were good ones - jobs that had good pay, reasonable economic security, good benefits and defined pensions. Jobs someone could raise a family on, and they plopped them firmly in the middle class. These jobs have been replaced generally by lower paying service jobs. Fortunately we now face structural labor shortages - full employment, baby boomers retiring, big skills gap. That will drive wages and benefits up.

Or GATS. What about the good 'ol GATS treaty of 1995? We don't have single payer right now, and instead I have shitty, rationed healthcare with financially crippling copays, not because the Dems didn't have enough votes, but because it creates what is called a 'service monopoly' and is against provisions of GATS, of which we are a signatory. They didn't TELL US that, did they? Nope. We had to dig ourselves and find out. It took me a long time to get over my anger at Obama and the Democratic majorities of 2009 because of that. I campaigned for him BECAUSE OF HEALTHCARE and did indeed feel betrayed by this very party. My party and your party.

My point: Yeah, I am a Democrat - have been registered as a Democrat since 1984. But I absolutely refuse to shut up about stuff with which I disagree. I'm not gonna troll - but I'm sure gonna say if I am not in consensus with something this party is doing. You know why? It is your party, but it is my party too.

[Agschmid]

5. Yes! Michelle Visage!!!!

[Her Sister]

7. RuPaul Drives... Michelle Visage :-)

[narnian60]

10. Enjoyed that.

Hadn't seen it before. Love you, Rupaul. Voice like silk.

[mcar]

6. Good info

Thanks

[betsuni]

8. Concern trolling from the peanut gallery is the worst! (nt)

[Her Sister]

9. When the concern trollers are numerous they get together to reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly

hash and analyze the "concerns" and they recommend and recommend the bad news and loooooove to spread the bad news... and like to push them on their targets. it's like some kind of party for them. Get's them excited. Gets them going.

Good news or a good take, not so much! They gotta find the way to poo poo it asap -again with their relevant "concerns".

[mopinko]

11. often hard to get juries here to spot.

the old mods had spidey sense about them, but if you arent used to them, it can be tough.

[KG]

12. methinks you're making too big a deal about this...

[Her Sister]

13. Noted!

[sulphurdunn]

21. I don't know which is worse:

Last edited Sat Jul 2, 2016, 01:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Trolls or troll hunters.

[Her Sister]

23. You don't seem to care if people do "concern" trolling!?

???

[sulphurdunn]

48. I am far more concerned

with vigilante thought police trying to silence them rather than refuting or ignoring them. Whatever else a troll does, it doesn't appeal to reason. Facts are its enemies. It always appeals to emotion and attempts to move a discussion toward anger rather than reason. Insist on reasoned discourse and trolls will not be a problem.

[Her Sister]

58. I don't engage everyone!

Others can. Freedom of engaging! Must be part of freedom of speech!

[sulphurdunn]

65. Yes.

I can't say with any certainty that someone is or is not a troll. If I respond to a post and the reply comes across as something designed to waste my time I do not respond again.

[Kingofalldems]

32. Republican Trump sympathizers are not allowed on DU.

[sulphurdunn]

47. Are you implying that I'm a Trump sympathizer?

Because if you are it proves my point. It happens when ideological purity enlist self-proclaimed inquisitors and witch hunters to protect the faithful from the confusion caused by critical reasoning.

[Kingofalldems]

49. No, I was responding to your post

in which you claim troll hunters are on the same level as filthy republican trolls. I do it proudly.

So your point was not even close to being proven.

[sulphurdunn]

51. Then get after them.

using argument. It works better than name calling.

[Kingofalldems]

52. I don't call them names.

Filthy republican trolls describes the whole lot of them.

Just like the term 'scab' refers to people who betray their fellow workers.


Do you consider the term 'scab' name calling?

[sulphurdunn]

57. Sure it is, but it applies

to a very specific behavior against which working people must defend themselves. If you cross my picket line to to take my job you are a scab. There is no gray area. I can prove if someone is a scab. I can't prove he's a troll, and that's the problem. There is no equivalency between the terms.

[salin]

72. I love ironic performance art

[KG]

73. only took six hours, thanks!

[Coyotl]

15. Years ago there was a troll taxonomy effort on DU, new species discovered and all that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1694538

"I'm wondering, what is the Missionary Troll's position?"

[Her Sister]

17. That's great info there! lol!

They are proliferate and d-evolving!

Honestly I think it sucks to be them. One precious life and wasting living it in such underhanded ways!

[Coyotl]

19. Some of them get paid well to do it. Most just do it and don't know they could get paid.

Political consulting firms offer the "service" of spinning discussions online. They don't use the term trolling though.

[Coyotl]

18. Towards a Taxonomy of Political Trolls OR Filling a Neologism Vacuum.

Towards a Taxonomy of Political Trolls OR Filling a Neologism Vacuum.

Unlike Internet trolls generally, the political trolls, a distinct genera (Homoferus), remain poorly described.
The genus name derives from the combined form of:
homo hominis : human being, man + ferus : fierce, wild, savage, untamed.
It would be helpful to have clearer descriptions and nomenclature to deal with these pesky ratf**kers!

To start, we need to do more work to describe the Dem bashing species. They are not Homoferus blemmus (blemmings), the trolls that try to lead everyone off a cliff into irrelevancy. They are not Homoferus inundatus, the inundation troll, a recently described species that runs in packs and swamps fora with many posts, typically on an undesirable and negative topic that disrupts normal, productive discourse. However, trolls smearing Dems are a closely related species; they have similar intentions, including to exceed the normal tolerance level of rational people and drive them away.

Any other troll taxonomists have a good name for the Dem-bashing trolls.......

[emulatorloo]

16. Thank you for compiling this. Bookmarking and recommending.

[sheshe2]

20. Lol

Nailed it!

[Boomer]

22. This can be a double-edged sword

An overuse of the label "concern troll" can stifle legitimate criticism. No party is perfect, no candidate is perfect. How do you distinguish genuine concern over issues within our party from people who are trolling? It's not always obvious.

[Her Sister]

25. T'is true! ~Question: Are they trying to hurt morale?

Come on, we're all humans here, we know, human nature, we know when someone is trying to bee-ess us!
Are they gleeful when bringing bad news!
We can tell where someone is coming from!
We can smell... frenemies and that sort.
In any case you can use your judgment and make up your own mind.
I just wanted to bring awareness and bring up the subject.

[LongtimeAZDem]

29. "Morale" has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of a criticism

It doesn't matter if someone is "gleeful when bringing bad news", or "where someone is coming from".

The only question should be: do they have a legitimate point?

If morale cannot stand up to valid criticism, the attacker is not the problem.

[Her Sister]

30. It matters to me!

Because it gives me important information about whether to trust a person. If a person tells me my mother is dying and I catch some happiness there I'll put that down for future reference. Very useful to know.

[Chakaconcarne]

40. You dont....

And I think it's particularly lame to instill suspicion and label someone/anyone a troll for expressing "concerns".

Questionable territory this label takes us into imo.

Let the dialogue take place. It will stand on its on merit.

[PJMcK]

53. Usually it's easy to discern the difference

It's a lot like pornography: tough to define but generally easy to spot.

[floriduck]

66. You and I had a productive conversation yesterday that could have gone sideways without

patience. But we came to terms and agreement. Many people consider me a troll because I may disagree with them. As such, I've had 3 hides in two days. But I think I'm consistent in my approach, even with many I disagree with. There are unfortunately too many on this site that refuse to allow open dialogue. I expect my time will be limited as I've suggested the Admins suspend me if they think my hides were legitimate.

I have better things I can do than fight over politics. Best wishes and enjoy your holiday weekend. (before this gets hidden).

[PJMcK]

67. I, too, enjoyed our conversation

Patience, clarity and politeness help grease the skids of most conversations. I hope you're not banned and certainly this post won't be hidden.

Enjoy Independence Day!

[Her Sister]

70. floriduck, where's that conversation that you had with PJMcK ?

Just wondering!

You sound like a reasonable person with your own opinions that tells it like they see it -and not into wasting anyone's precious time while pursuing hidden agendas.

Thanks for sharing.
Have a great 4th and weekend!!

[floriduck]

71. Here it is. Thanks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027973103

[newthinking]

61. Exactly. Isn't this OP an example of "Concern Trolling"?

One of the worst things that happens on this site is when people start to label those they disagree with and then try to intimidate them. I don't know who this post is in reference to, but whenever I see one of these kinds of posts it just reeks "divisive".

I suppose I may now be labeled a "concern troll" for pointing this out

[jalan48]

24. Sounds like a cause for concern.

[Her Sister]

26. You got it!

[MisterP]

27. next y'all'll be complaining about David Brock

[Her Sister]

28. Who's y'all?

[Kingofalldems]

31. And they use these alot:

And are always concerned about Hillary's poll numbers while trying to debunk any poll that has her way ahead.

[pnwmom]

34. And they're obsessed with emails.

[whistler162]

36. or concerned trolls!

[pnwmom]

37. Wise people, like the OP, note the presence of concerned trolls.

And understand their intentions.

[Kingofalldems]

50. Absolutely.

They 'fear' she will be indicted any moment.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

33. lol

i can feel your love

[Her Sister]

35. ...

[B2G]

38. Do you have some specific examples you could point us to?

TIA.

[Stargleamer]

41. Here's one: "I'm against all the gun violence going on. . .

but if you take away people's AR-15's, I'm concerned that it will eventually lead to gun rights being eroded away"

[B2G]

42. You do realize that around 40% of Democrats own guns, right?

And a fair number of our Dem legislators too?

Are they trolls as well?

[Stargleamer]

43. They can be, if they present themselves to be pro gun-control

but actually aren't.

[B2G]

44. That poster didn't present as pro-gun control. nt

[Stargleamer]

46. It was an hypothetical example, not an actual post

and to get back to your comments, yes, if those who own guns (including Democrats) argue that if you ban AR-15's it could lead to an erosion of gun rights, while professing to be against all gun violence, they're being disingenuous, a hallmark of being a concern troll.

[sulphurdunn]

59. It's easier

to point out the obvious fact that most AR-15 owners are also against "all the gun violence going on..." and then point out the obvious falsehood that someone is coming for people's AR-15s. Rebuttal with fact is far more satisfying than worrying about whether or not the poster is a troll.

[Stargleamer]

69. if though, given the forum you're in, . . .

and other background information (past knowledge of poster, past posts they made, etc.), it's better to call them out on being disingenuous, with the focus being that the poster shouldn't be b.s.-ing., rather than the disputing the veracity of facts.

It might be, as you say, "easier" just to argue the facts, but I think one should rise to the occasion and confront the trolling, the b.s-ing when the situation calls for it.

[sulphurdunn]

78. I mentioned to someone else

that arguing is my habit. The person replied that mostly they ignore trolls. You say call them out. It's all fine with me, but I had to concede that ignoring them works best, especially if they're on someone's payroll.

[newthinking]

62. I am entirely against assault gun sales

I don't own a gun.

But I can recognize that post as **not** an example of trolling.

One can mistakenly believe someone Else's position is trolling if you cannot emphathize with them. Empathizing does not mean agreeing, it means trying to view it from their perspective. Interesting thing is, when you can do this one actually becomes better at being able to convince others.

[Stargleamer]

68. I think you're likely to miss much concern trolling going on...

if you take other posters' comments at face value.

OTOH, I know it can be alleged that that's the proper or charitable thing to do, rather than to view their posts cynically.

[former9thward]

39. Thanks for your concern...

[newthinking]

63. +1

[Shandris]

45. Just as a precautionary note, I'll point out that the other use of concerns about...

...'concern trolling' is to make sure you overlook most sensible objections in a process known as 'radicalization'. This is almost admitted when it notes in the Geek Feminism part that sometimes the 'trolls' are actually not trolls at all, just people at different stages of learning. Being sincere (even if that sincerity bothers others, or seems 'annoying' to them) is pretty much the diametric opposite of being a troll.

Every system carries the seed of it's own destruction, and a system for detecting 'trolling' is no different. Ultimately, online you will never know who is sincere and who isn't. Only your own instinct can guide you. Stay safe out there, there is a literal war for your mind being waged.

[PatrickforO]

54. Sometimes examples are good.

I remember being appalled by a concern troll who came on here and asked if we didn't think that allowing m to f trans people to use women's restrooms didn't put our children in danger.

Basically, everyone on the thread told this person to shut up, as the woman in your gif is saying.

Usually if you spell out what the concern troll is doing for everyone else to see, they disappear. I remember vaguely that my reply to the troll was something like, "This is a non issue. Trans people have been using the bathrooms of their true gender for many years and NOW it's a problem? Funny, it never mattered before...why are you so concerned about it now, unless you are actually on the other side of the argument?"

[itsrobert]

55. The admin should add "concern troll" to the rules/alert/jury function

We all know it's going on.

[Kingofalldems]

76. + 100,000

[Agnosticsherbet]

56. I am concerned with your concern over the concerning nature of concern trolls.

Worry wargs and fear frogs are all so concerned.

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. "I LOVE Bernie Sanders... BUT" Yeah, I've read that shit a thousand times in the last year.

[louis c]

75. Great. Now maybe the administrators at DU.........

..............will stop suspending me for pointing this out, as they've done for the past two weeks.

Louis C.

[Kingofalldems]

77. There is one who is concern trolling DU right now.

Wish I could name names.

[Lance Bass esquire]

79. Concern Police ??? Really? On DU?

Reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode:
The monsters are Due on Maple Street


Plot summary

Maple Street is full of playing children and adults talking, when a shadow passes over, a "monster", accompanied by a roar and a flash of light. Several adults notice, but there is no alarm. However, the residents soon discover that their power has been cut, affecting stoves, lawn mowers, and phones. They gather together in the street to discuss the situation. Pete Van Horn volunteers to walk out of the neighborhood to discover the extent of the problem and he goes to check the gas station. His neighbor, Steve Brand (Akins), wants to go into town, but Tommy, an irritating local boy who catalyzes the situation, urges him not to leave the street. Tommy has read a story of an alien invasion causing similar controversy, and says that the monsters do not want anyone to leave the street. Furthermore, in the story, the aliens are living as a family that appears to be human. The power outage is meant to isolate the neighborhood.

Meanwhile, another resident, Les Goodman, tries unsuccessfully to start his car. He gets out and begins to walk back to the other residents when the car starts on its own. The bizarre behavior of his car makes Les the object of immediate suspicion. One woman begins to discuss his late nights spent standing in the garden looking up at the sky. Les claims to be only an insomniac. Later that night, Steve, acting as the voice of reason, tries to defuse the situation and prevent it from becoming a witch-hunt. Les warns that the others are creating "something" ugly that they will not be able to control. Charlie Farnsworth, one of the loudest and most aggressive residents, pressures Steve about his hobby building a radio no one has ever seen. Suspicion falls on Steve as he sarcastically remarks that he talks to monsters from outer space on his radio. Steve and the other neighbors continue to argue.

Panic builds as darkness descends and a shadowy figure is seen walking toward them. Charlie, now hostile, grabs a shotgun and immediately shoots the shadow, thinking it to be the alleged "monster". When the crowd reaches the fallen figure, they realize it is Pete van Horn, returning from his scouting mission. The shot had hit him in the chest, killing him instantly. Although Charlie insists that he did not know, and was trying to protect everyone, no one believes him.

Suddenly, the lights in Charlie's house come on and he panics as the crowd begins accusing him of being both a murderer and the monster responsible for the power outage, and even Steve can't defend Charlie, or what he has done. Charlie makes a run for his house while the other residents chase him, throwing stones, one of them hitting Charlie in the head, creating a bleeding gash. Terrified, Charlie attempts to deflect suspicion onto Tommy, the boy who had originally suggested alien infiltration. Several neighbors agree, as Tommy was the only one who knew about the aliens' plans.

Lights begin flashing on and off in houses throughout the neighborhood; lawn mower and car engines start and stop for no apparent reason. The mob becomes hysterical, with terrified residents smashing windows and taking up weapons as the situation devolves into an all-out riot. Some residents take up firearms and start shooting at anyone they can.

[Her Sister]

80. Police? Exaggeration much?

Not speaking of policing anything. Just knowing.

[Lance Bass esquire]

81. How do we know your not policing?

I just want to know?

Evidently there are concern trolls, then why not police trolls as well?


Pretty sure you cant prove either.

People concerned over people being concerned on DU bothers me more than the trolls themselves.

To whom it may concern I have said my piece...I will just shut up and go away now

Everyone have a good 4th

Carry on...

[Her Sister]

82. Again not policing!

Not sure what police trolls are? Not asking anyone to start policing anything. Just calling something out. Giving it a term, defining it.

Many people seemed to agree as you can see from some responses and rec'ds. So why not take a moment to think what the heck is that about. Something about the matter bothering some, hmmmmmmmm! LOL!

In any case, You too have a great 4th!

[Warren DeMontague]

83. Oh, are we doing the cute little gif thing again? I thought that fad finally ended.

Cool!

[Her Sister]

84. Hot & buttered!

[Warren DeMontague]

85. I just can't get enough of those sassy reaction gifs~!

Last edited Sun Jul 3, 2016, 12:35 AM - Edit history (1)

...know what I mean?

[Her Sister]

86. Gonna ask you to shoo b/c your responses are just not germane

and feeling a little violent vibe from you! So if I got it wrong correct me.
Would love if you deleted your bullshit posts above.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. You said hot buttered.

Last edited Sun Jul 3, 2016, 12:34 AM - Edit history (1)

I was gonna go with carrot top, but then i saw the corn thing.



Anyway, I found a better one. I really wasn't trying to freak you out.

I may make the occasional fava bean joke at the grocery store, but killing and eating people really isn't my style.