Is it really that blacks commit crimes at a higher rate? Or are they just arrested at a higher rate

[Jitter65]

and booked as criminals. Is driving with a broken tail light a crime that blacks get stopped for at higher rates than white? If cops were in rural areas in the numbers they patrol black areas would and arrested the whites in rural areas for their crimes of crack, meth, heroine, pot, petty theft would that change the stats? Even on Wall Street, if white collar workers were arrested for their drug use, their pilfering of candy, gum, fruit etc. from vendors would they be counted as crimes? What about the motorcycle gangs that rob banks, rob stores, steal goods, abuse kids and women? Are they arrested in the numbers that they should be? Police are out in numbers in black areas looking for opportunities to make arrests and justly so. BUT they should be out in the same numbers making arrests in white areas for the same crimes. Check out the crime stats in gated communities and well off neighborhoods. Robberies take place all the time...the perps are not usually found or arrested. There are well known organized crime rings operating in those neighborhoods but the reporting is scant and arrests are few. The victims collect their insurance and few if any make publicized claims.

I call BS on what some are saying about blacks committing more crimes than others. They are simply arrested more frequently and documented.

[uawchild]

1. Selective enforcement and harsher sentences n/t

[Rex]

2. They are arrested at a higher rate. They are profiled at a higher rate. They are discriminated

against at a higher rate. This culture has a fixation with arresting black men, because they are black.

[merrily]

27. They seem to be shot dead as suspects or killed in custody at a higher rate, too.

[RKP5637]

3. They are sadly seen as meat for the "For Profit" US prison system. They have to make those quotas.

[romanic]

4. Blacks commit more crimes...

...in mostly black cities because, obviously, most of the populace is black. There isn't much evidence to say that Black people commit more crime than Whites, Latinos, Asians, etc nationwide. Racists right-wingers warp it to say black people are the ones that commit most of the crimes.

As for more arrests, Black people or rather, black men, are more likely to be jailed for drug related offenses or simple traffic stops gone wrong.

[Stellar]

21. Or isn't there more crime committed in white neighborhoods

because more White's live there, obviously, .

[merrily]

28. I don't know. I have not studied crime statistics. But I think we have to be careful of

false equivalencies, something with which the right seems to have particular difficulty.

The history of slavery and Jim Crow and race-based negative descriptors and slurs like lazy, shiftless, congenitally dumb (Jensenism), etc. applies to only one minority in this country.

The stupid burns when the right goes on about how immigrants from some far eastern nation do okay. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

[loyalsister]

5. "Dear White America"

is a book by Tim Wise that is full of statistics and historical & cultural context. The answer is no. Just one example.... white people do more drugs than people of color who are far more likely to go to jail for simple possession.

[former9thward]

7. "Simple possession" is no longer a jailable offence

in most U.S. jurisdictions. Why do people keep posting that it is?

[Rex]

9. Because her facts are correct and yours are wrong?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/28/every-minute-someone-gets-arrested-for-marijuana-possession-in-the-u-s/

'The nation's law enforcement agencies are still arresting people for marijuana possession at near record-high rates, according to the latest national data released today by the FBI. In 2014, at least 620,000 people were arrested for simple pot possession -- that's 1,700 people per day, or more than 1 per minute. And that number is an undercount, because a handful of states either don't report arrest numbers to the FBI, or do so only on a limited basis.'

[former9thward]

16. Ahh try again....

My facts are correct. You are not. Arrested is not the same as being jailed which is what the poster said. If you don't know the difference it is a sad.... In AZ people can be arrested for simple possession but it is against the law to jail them. See the difference?

[Rex]

18. What facts? You produce nothing.

So goodluck with no-facts.

[former9thward]

19. Name me someone in jail or simple possession and no other crime.

We will see the "facts" you bring up....

[Rex]

20. Dave.

Also Tom is in jail for having just a pipe and no drugs. Do you know Dave?

[former9thward]

24. Specific name and specific jail

Which you do not name. Pipe is not possession but you knew that.

[Lancero]

32. Possession can get jail time...

Which explains why you're refusing to back your claim that simple possession is no longer a jailable offense. As long as the federal guidelines exist, then you can get jailed in ANY jurisdiction, which punches holes in your 'in most juridictions' claim too.

You'd be correct to say that (for some...) simple possession wouldn't get jail time, but you're completely incorrect to claim that possession is no longer classified as a crime.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=average+jail+sentence+for+possession+of+marijuana

STRICTEST STATES FOR FELONY POSSESSION

These states don’t play around. If you’re caught with marijuana here, even a relatively low amount on your first offense will doom you.

Arizona
If you’re living in the deserts of Arizona, it’s particularly unwise to keep marijuana around. Arizona is the strictest state in America in terms of enforcing marijuana possession. In fact, it’s the only state in the union where any amount of marijuana will draw a guaranteed felony charge on the first offense.

Florida
Florida’s medical marijuana ballot initiative failed in the 2014 midterms – not a shocker considering it’s one of the top five most unforgiving states to first-time offenders caught with marijuana. Carrying more than 0.7 ounces will earn a felony in the Sunshine State.

Oklahoma
The only state rivaling Arizona’s strictness on a first offense is Oklahoma. Any amount of marijuana will earn you one year in jail, and the state can charge you with a felony or misdemeanor.

Tennessee
The Tennessee government is currently recruiting farmers to take part in an industrial hemp-growing program, but don’t think that means it’s a reefer party at the Grand Ole Opry. In fact, Tennessee’s law makes a felon out of anyone carrying any amount over a half-ounce of marijuana, making it one of the most extreme states in the union.

But in all states, it is still a violation of federal law to possess marijuana. This conflict may someday be resolved by federal legislation that allows for specified, legal uses, but for now, federal and state law are often at odds with each other, as discussed below.

...Marijuana Possession Penalties

For those charged with personal possession of marijuana (not for resale or distribution), where decriminalization does not apply, a misdemeanor possession charge will be lowest for first offenders. In situations where the charge is based on sales of drug paraphernalia, the penalties can be increased to a felony. Depending on the factors listed above, the penalties for possession can include:

a fine (typically up to $2,000)
jail time (typically less than one year in jail)
mandatory drug testing
drug awareness classes
probation, and
electronic monitoring.
Marijuana Possession Sentencing

Although possession of marijuana is typically not considered as serious as possessing other types of drugs or controlled substances, judges have sometimes imposed fairly stiff sentences even on first time offenders.

[img][/img]

[former9thward]

37. I deal in reality.

In reality simple possession does not result in jail time. I sure there are laws somewhere saying if you spit on the sidewalk you can be jailed. But does anyone ever go to jail because of it? #deawithhowtherealworldworks.

[Lancero]

43. And the reality is that you said it ISN'T a jailable offense.

You made no mention as to enforcement when you claimed that, just saying that it's no longer a jailable offense.

As the federal guidelines show possession is very much still a jailable offense, which is vastly different to what you're now saying.

#admittobeingwrongdontmovethegoalposts

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Why do you assume that is the only charge? Here's how NYC's infamous 'Stop and Frisk' policy

played out. You stop a person, ask them to empty their pockets. In their pocket is a bag of cannabis. You now arrest them for public display or use of the cannabis they actually had concealed in their pocket until you asked them to remove it. If they have two small bags, you arrest them for dealing. More than 80% of the people subjected to Stop and Frisk are young men of color.
Also, people do go to jail for simple possession. Oh yes they do.

http://www.alternet.org/story/150935/the_5_worst_states_to_get_busted_with_pot

[BronxBoy]

36. Yeah....That Poster is Clueless

What a lot of people forget about the odious Giuliani's Stop and Frisk bullshit was that it was a truly comprehensive tool for oppression. The "Trespassing" laws they passed were just as onerous and led to many innocent people being jailed in Central Booking for days or even worse. A building was posted with the city no trespassing sign and it gave cops the right to swarm the building at any time and arrest anyone who was near it. I know one guy who was going to visit his girlfriend.. Cops swarmed the building. He showed valid ID but he didn't live there. Wouldn't let him contact his girl who was in the building. Spent 4 days in Central Booking

[former9thward]

39. So now you are saying NYC puts people in jail for simple possession.

What a load of nonsense. Prove it.

[BronxBoy]

40. You don't read very well do you....

where did I say that?

[former9thward]

41. You said I was clueless.

When I stated people don't go to jail for simple possession. And then you start talking about NYC police. Maybe you don't read very well.

[haele]

42. Being put in jail is not the same as being convicted and sent to prison.

Jail for most people is typically a holding cell.
People are put in jail all the time for simple possession, just like they are for drunk driving and other misdemeanors. And they stay in jail until the fine is paid, bail is posted, the filing of charges is dropped, or the arrestee is assigned a hearing. Sometimes for a few hours, sometimes for a few days.

In the meantime, their lives are slowly being taken apart. They miss work, and if they aren't in a critical position, lose their jobs. They have to identify on future employment paperwork and/or leases that they were arrested, if that's one of the questions on the form, along with the "drug use" question. War on Gangs, War on Drugs, y'know.
As part of my current employment, I had to let them know about any legal issues - as minor as traffic tickets - and I'm a f'n IT Engineer with 35 years of experience. (Two lapsed registration tickets, one overdue/overlooked parking fine on a rental car over a 20 year period.)

Some employers don't care if your arrest even went to trial, they just need to know if you were "arrested" to make the yes or no determination to hire.

So a disproportionate profiling effort that targets "scary colored people of low class" will ensure that there's a constant legal pressure, a "presumption of guilt" on the POC population - a population that is already suffering from societal isolation and have fewer normal opportunities for resources available to them. Pretty near every resource available to the poorer communities require jumping through all sorts of belittling hoops to prove they "earned" the right to citizenship. Profiling just makes it harder; one mistake that is typically ignored or forgiven in groups where the population is considered normal (i.e., middle class professionals who look like a media portrayal of "normal citizens&quot warrants harsh punishment on people who don't look an acceptable social stereotype.

Haele

[former9thward]

38. Because that is what the sub-thread is about.

If you bothered to read the posts. Yes, there can be other charges and that is what they are in jail for -- not simple possession. Also your link was very careful to talk about arrests but leaving out how many are jailed for simple possession.

[Travis_0004]

6. Areas with low crime have a higher police presence

I don't think that is a shocking statistic.


The FBI statistics show that blacks commit murder at a much higher rates than whites? Do you really think cops and the FBI are just turning a blind eye to white murders?

I would argue that at some lower levels of crime there is a disparity in policing, but cops are going to investigate and arrest anybody who commits a violent crime.

[Major Nikon]

8. Has quite a bit to do with socio-economic factors

Poor people of all races tend to commit more crimes than the more affluent. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that the more socially disadvantaged you are, the more likely you are to commit crimes all other things being equal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_correlations_of_criminal_behaviour#Socioeconomic_factors

[Rex]

11. Except that is not what your link says, did you actually read it? nt

Unstable employment and high frequency of unemployment correlate with criminality.[1]

Somewhat inconsistent evidence indicates a relationship between low income, percentage under the poverty line, few years of education, and high income inequality in an area and more crime in the area.[1]

The relationship between the state of the economy and crime rates is inconsistent and for differences in unemployment across regions and crime rates. A slight association between unemployment and crime rates was found.[1]

[Major Nikon]

12. I did. I don't think you understood it

[Rex]

13. Yes I guess you don't understand the difference between consistent and inconsistent.

That is on you, thanks for the link it disproves what you typed.

[Major Nikon]

15. Nonsense

Start from the first sentence and work your way down rather than trying (and failing) to start in the middle and work your way out.

[Rex]

17. NP. Don't edit the link...I like how you disproved your own reply.

[Major Nikon]

22. Why would I do so?

If this is just too hard for you to understand, I'm done explaining it to you. If you want to keep proving your own subliteracy, be my guest.

Socioeconomic status (usually measured using the three variables income (or wealth), occupational level, and years of education) correlate with less crime, except for self-reported illegal drug use.

[Skittles]

31. what if white guys in suits were actually ARRESTED for the fraud they commit daily?

[Major Nikon]

33. What if everyone was actually arrested for cheating on their taxes?

What if everyone who drinks and drives were actually arrested?

What if people who ride bicycles on the sidewalk were actually arrested?

What if people who text and drive were actually arrested?

What if people who speed were actually arrested?

What if we actually arrested everyone who had sex in a public place?

What if we actually arrested people who throw their trash out on the street?

What if we actually arrested everyone who violates copyright laws?

What if we actually arrested everyone who doesn't clean up their dog shit?

I could go on and on here and most of these things seem rather arbitrary and silly to arrest people over, but not really any more so than smoking pot and probably less so since things like texting and driving actually does manage to kill the shit out of a lot of people. So yes, I think that if we enforced all laws to the extent that laws are enforced on certain classes of people, then crime statistics would look significantly different.

[Skittles]

45. the point is

people who crash the economy SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

people selling pot on the streets sure are

[madville]

10. It's poverty as well

Crime, arrests, and convictions among middle and upper class black citizens is the same as middle and upper class whites. Larger proportions of black citizens live in poverty and in urban areas with higher police presence than poor rural whites.

[Calculating]

14. a combination of both IMO

Part of the problem is when young black men are arrested and get criminal records for things that young white men usually aren't arrested for. This causes the young black men to lose job opportunities and might set them on a life of crime. Police are definitely profiling based on race.

According to this article, 90% of those arrested for marijuana offenses in NYC were people of color.
http://www.businessinsider.com/nypd-disproportionately-arrests-people-of-color-for-marijuana-offenses-2016-6

[hack89]

23. They are over represented in murder statistics

Both as victims and as perpetrators. I suspect that is due
to concentrated urban poverty and drug gangs

[raven mad]

25. That's been the excuse used by racists forever and a day. n/t

[uponit7771]

26. +1

[L. Coyote]

34. Do a poll asking people who have been caught with weed if they were arrested.

I've been caught over and over again, never been arrested. Even joked and laughed about it with the police. Plus, they have never taken my weed away from me.

White cops and I'm white!
Stopped for a tail light out = warning.
Stopped for speeding = warning.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

44. Let's look at the FBI Crime Statistics

Blacks are **TARGETED** and arrested at a higher rate and convicted at a higher rate:

http://www.app.com/story/news/investigations/2014/11/18/racial-arrest-disparity-nj/19247461/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-farbota/black-crime-rates-your-st_b_8078586.html

FBI Statistics: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

And:

According to the US Department of Justice statistics, 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites. In 2011, there were more cases of whites killing whites than there were of blacks killing blacks. Between 1980 to 2008, a majority (53.3 percent) of gang-related murders were committed by white people, with a majority of the homicide victims being white as well.

In America, whites commit the majority of crimes. What’s even more troubling is that they are also responsible for a vast majority of violent crimes. In 2013, whites led all other groups in aggravated assault, larceny-theft, arson, weapons-carrying, and vandalism. When it comes to sexual assault, whites take the forcible rape cake. They are also more likely to kill children, the elderly, family members, their significant others, and even themselves! They commit more sex-related crimes, gang related crimes, and are more likely to kill at their places of employment. In 2013, an estimated 10,076 people died in the U.S. due to drunk driving crashes. Driving while drunk is almost exclusively a white crime because everyone knows black people prefer to drink on their porches or inside their homes.

More FBI Statistics:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls