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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere Have Been 8,124 Murders by Firearm in the U.S. vs. 29 (144 equiv.) in the U.K.
There Have Been 8,124 Murders by Firearm in the U.S. vs. 29 (144 equiv.) in the U.K.Posted on Jul 12, 2016
By Juan Cole
The United States continues to be peculiar in handing out powerful magazine-fed firearms to almost anyone who wants one and not requiring background checks on private purchases even if these are made at gun shows. 80% of civilian-owned firearms world-wide are in the US, and only Yemen vaguely competes with us for rates of firearm ownership; Yemen is a violent mess with Shiite insurgencies, al-Qaeda taking over cities from time to time, tribal feuding, southern separatism and US drone strikes. And even it has fewer guns per person than the USA.
It has gotten to the point where the increasing epidemic of mass shootings now threatens law enforcement, with the deaths of 5 policemen in Dallas at the hands of an unhinged Black ultra-nationalist.
The US is downright weird compared to civilized Western Europe or Australia (which enacted gun control after a mass shooting in 1996 and there have been no further such incidents).
In 2013-2014 (the twelve months beginning in March), there were [font color="red"]29 fatalities from gun-related crimes[/font] in England and Wales (equivalent to 144 because UK is smaller than US).
Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2014: 8124
Percentage of [font color="red"]all Murders that were committed by firearms in US[/font]: 68%
[font color="red"]Suicides in US 2013[/font]: 41,149
[font color="red"]Gun Suicides in US, 2013[/font]: 21,175
Percentage of [font color="red"]all murders in England and Wales that were committed[/font] by firearm: 5.4 percent.
Number of [font color="red"]suicides in England and Wales[/font], 2011: 4871 (equivalent to about 25,818 in US or 31% lower)
[font color="red"]Number of suicides by firearm in England and Wales[/font], 2011: 84 ..................(more)
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/there_have_been_8124_murders_by_firearm_us_vs_29_144_equiv_uk_20160712
maxsolomon
(33,232 posts)American gun owners do a surprisingly good job of not using their guns, but if even a really tiny percentage of the guns are used, it turns into these numbers.
.0001% of 300 million guns = 30K gun deaths. One ten-thousandth of a percent.
and to the RKBA DU poster who recently argued with me that less access to guns wouldn't reduce America's suicide rate, that self-destructive impulses + the ease of firearms has nothing to do with it: the UK's rate is 31% lower.
maxsolomon
(33,232 posts)I don't know why this thread sank
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Just as vitriolically as the right. They may be free thinkers, but they're certainly not critical ones.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2014: 8124
During that same period, there were roughly 60 thousand defensive gun uses, or more:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172191826
How many in England and Wales?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)in fact, its would be about 47 thousand DGUs annually, and that's less than 1% of violent crime yearly. Not to mention the inherent unreliability of self-reporting surveys. Hence why there should be more studies conducted.
http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf
I would recommend actually looking at the data rather than trying to skew it to support your position.
maxsolomon
(33,232 posts)that's 67K/year. I can accept that number as a rough estimate if we can also accept that a large portion of those DGUs are illegal as well.
I'd love it if the DGU number got nailed down through some sort of scientific survey by a trusted organization. Like, just off the top of my head, the CDC maybe?
sarisataka
(18,471 posts)a large portion be illegal for you to accept that number as valid.
If the CDC says the number is actually 300,000 legal DGUs/year will you be satisfied with that number determined by a trusted organization?
(no they haven't said that exactly but have said the number of DGUs likely exceeds all gun crime combined. They agree, as do I , more study is needed)
maxsolomon
(33,232 posts)and that should be acknowledged if one is making the argument that a gun is necessary for self-protection.
Alton Sterling had successfully completed a DGU before he was killed - it's the reason the cops were called. He was a felon with no rights to carry a gun.
sarisataka
(18,471 posts)that shows a large portion are illegal? That would need to be proven before being acknowledged. You also sidestepped my question of would you accept a CDC finding that did not match your views?
Anton Sterling was a felon and it sounds like he brandished the gun. That would be illegal. I don't think that warranted deadly force; also the police did not know at the time that he was a felon.
maxsolomon
(33,232 posts)Which I find patently absurd.
I don't have any data about the illegality of X% of DGUs, of course - it's my opinion based on reading Evan DeFillipis. Do you have some? That's not Kleck-based?
I agree, Sterling's use of a gun (not to mention possession of one) before his encounter with the police was illegal; it was also a Defensive Gun Use. An illegal DGU that one would not report to the police.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)If there are 60k or 40k uses of DGUs, does it balance out the risks of owning firearms, particularly handguns.
maxsolomon
(33,232 posts)He flashed his gun at a Panhandler to get him to fuck off already. The Panhandler called the cops; now he's dead. I think Sterling would have considered that a DGU.
Evan DeFillipis at armedwithreason.com contends that many, if not most, DGUs are illegal. http://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/
To answer your question, I suppose there were many self-defenses in England and Wales that didn't involve firearms. You don't get a prize when you use a gun versus a cricket bat.
Logical
(22,457 posts)struggle4progress
(118,204 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Would you have the knowledge to understand it?