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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSharing Netflix and HBO passwords is now a federal crime
"The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals last week ruled that sharing online passwords is a crime prosecutable under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act."
Which not only includes friends, but also family, spouses, and significant others. So technically I now have to leave the living room when my wife wants to watch Netflix, and she has to leave the room when I want to watch HBOgo, or we are committing a felony.... wtf??
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sharing-netflix-and-hbo-passwords-is-now-a-federal-crime-but-heres-why-not-to-worry-2016-07-12
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awake
(3,226 posts)No different than word software has been for years
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)I cannot know her password. So if I login to her Netflix account one or both of us are committing a felony. If she logs into my HBOgo account, one or both of us are committing a felony
still_one
(92,190 posts)Watch on 1 screen at a time in Standard Definition.
Watch on 2 screens at a time. HD available.
Watch on 4 screens at a time. HD and Ultra HD available.
I didn't read the exact wording, but I suspect it is in regard to giving a friend you password, not an immediate family member in the same household
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)They already limit the number of users that can use at a time anyway ...but now it's like buying hamburgers and then sharing one with your friend and being arrested because your friend didn't have to buy his own hamburger
awake
(3,226 posts)so non ticket holders can come into the theater.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)A theater has to charge by the seat, because they have a fixed number of seats as well as property rent to pay, plus other costs. When you would rent a movie at Blockbuster they don't ask you how many people are going to be on your couch watching it then charge you more.
awake
(3,226 posts)If we fallow your logic then it is ok to share you software with anyone because there is no physical product that you are stealing.
And if one is allowed to share their password what would be wrong with publishing on the net so the whole world could use it?
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)No one is copying software. No one is copying a DVD. There is a monthly fee being paid to rent access to the service. They do have a cap on the number of users. So why does it matter if I know my wife's password again? We pay for the service from our joint bank account.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)with more than a couple of other people let alone "the world"
Are we going to do the same for garbage? yard collection?
I heard a song yesterday at a friends house for free... gosh someone's missing out on profits!
awake
(3,226 posts)To an individual who was not allowed to have access to a system much like sharing a office key with an employee who was bared entertaining said office. This case was not about Netflix who allows people to shrare the password with their family members.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)I didnt say it was , I have said the legislation could cause problems with all kinds of password sharing and I was using Netflix as an example. ..but nice attempt at moving the goal posts to an individual case.
awake
(3,226 posts)If someone makes a password they still have the right to decide who gets to use, it if you creat a password to unlock your phone you still have the right to share that password with your partner if you want to. I for the life of me do not see the problem here. Unless you are suggesting that somehow the creator of a password should not be allowed to decide who gets to use it, in that case who should decide the Goverment?
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)I don't.
awake
(3,226 posts)No where did I say I trust "corporate America" about anything.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)On the ticket, it says "Admit One".
For the password, there is a User Agreement which spells out your access, and you have to click "I agree". If you don't want to abide by the terms of that agreement, don't click.
If you do agree, and violate those terms, the court has ruled that you can be prosecuted. It's no different than how giving someone your keys opens you to prosecution for trespass and theft.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Because just a bit down thread YOU quote the Netflix EULA which specifically says you CAN share with members of your household...
"2.1 Grant of Limited License. Netflix grants you (which, for purposes of this License Agreement, shall include members of your immediate household for whom you will be responsible hereunder and users of the Netflix service..."
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Yes, I pointed out that in the case of Netflix, the Terms of Service specifically allow for use by the household.
That in no way contradicts my my above statement, "If you do agree, and violate those terms, the court has ruled that you can be prosecuted."
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Access to me means they are fine with me knowing my wife's password. But according to the law that is now a felony. See a bit of a problem there?
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)do with the password. If you use it to access information in a manner which you are not granted permission, you can be prosecuted.
mythology
(9,527 posts)The EULA for Netflix specifies the conditions in which you can share it. The case in question was about a former employee using another user's credentials to gain access. I would be fired instantly for doing that and depending on what was done possibly be prosecuted due to confidential personal information.
The case doesn't have anything to do with Netflix.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)it's no different than the shift-supervisor at my P/T bookstore job (I was bored, needed an excuse to leave the house more and wanted the employee discount. I enjoy being a barista, but don't need the money.) decided they were feeling lazy and gave the safe-combination to an unauthorized employee to fill their own change order.
So...yeah, we got robbed in an internal theft and both employees were arrested. One for taking the money and one for aiding in the theft by giving the thief unauthorized access to the safe.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)for allowing access to a free movie?
what if you invite a large group of friends?
Its stupid. how are they going to enforce this law? Chase suspected household members and their friends and family around and see if if it is they who are watching legally or of they shared access by giving their password?
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)It's like renting a movie and watching it with your buddy. In fact that is exactly what it is. When was the last time you went to blockbuster with a friend, rented a movie, and they charged you double because the other person was going to watch it as well? I'm gonna hold my breath for that answer so please hurry.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...altogether.
We're talking about PASSWORDS here, not who watches the movie with you.
SMH.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)I can't know my wife's netflix password, according to the law. That is what I have a problem with
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)"The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals last week ruled that sharing online passwords is a crime prosecutable under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act."
Which makes it a felony for me to know my wife's Netflix password. What part about that is confusing to you?
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)The ruling says nothing at-all about you knowing your wife's password for Netflix. It concerns your hypothetical wife giving you hypothetical access to computing systems you are not hypothetically permitted to access. The Netflix EULA permits you access to her account as members of the same household. She might emphasis on might be in violation of this ruling if she started giving out her password for Netflix to her extended family so they can piggyback her account rather than paying for their own.
The example I used upthread about the employee at work arrested for giving another employee the access passcode to the safe is a much closer example to what this ruling actually concerns. Similarly, it would be a crime for someone to give me the password to their company VPN because the shared-server is full of .pdfs of USDoD blueprints for military equipment.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)awake
(3,226 posts)so long as it it not a "public performance" what the law says is that you are not allowed to share your password with others who were not allowed to have it by the agreement you made with Netflicks to get a password.
Javaman
(62,530 posts)we do not own our own passwords.
this very simple thing has very large implications.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)even if you paid for it, the access it provides is subject to the restrictions you agreed to in your employment.
In this case, employees gave a former employee, whose access had been revoked, passwords to access secure systems. This is no different than giving a terminated employee your key to the building.
Javaman
(62,530 posts)LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Javaman
(62,530 posts)isn't this a case of: I give my password to my friend and they access my netfilx, no?
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)If you give them the password, but they don't use it, there has been no technical violation of the Netflix ToS. If they use it, then they have committed piracy under the law (whether or not Netflix cares to pursue it) and, as the Account Holder and Responsible Party, you are liable as well.
Javaman
(62,530 posts)it clearly states that it's technically illegal.
and that netflix and HBO are shrugging it off.
and the judge making the ruling says that it can be illegal even if they are consensual in the sharing of the passwords.
this is not me, this is the judges ruling.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)awake
(3,226 posts)from the owner of the key then yes you may be in trouble.
Javaman
(62,530 posts)LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Javaman
(62,530 posts)and HBO are shrugging it off.
from the article:
"Though sharing passwords is now technically a federal crime, companies like Netflix inc. and HBO are still all but shrugging off friends, family and significant others using each other's accounts.
The U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last week ruled that sharing online passwords is a crime prosecutable under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. In Judge Stephan Reinhardt's dissenting opinion, he noted the ruling could impact the likes of Netflix NFLX, -0.90% and Time Warner Inc.'s TWX, -0.69% HBO members, as well as other consensual password sharing."
---------------
so, yes they are referring to family and friend that are given passwords consensually.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)"2.1 Grant of Limited License. Netflix grants you (which, for purposes of this License Agreement, shall include members of your immediate household for whom you will be responsible hereunder and users of the Netflix ready device with which you are accessing the Netflix service and for whom you will be responsible hereunder) a non-exclusive, limited, personal and nontransferable license, subject to and conditioned on your compliance with the restrictions set forth in this License Agreement, to install and use the Software, in object code form only, provided to you by or on behalf of Netflix in connection with your use of the Netflix service."
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)I wonder which poor sucker will be the first to get charged :/
kairos12
(12,861 posts)That was funny. I'm surprised to see so many people here in favor of such a stupid ruling. Maybe I am on the wrong site
Chan790
(20,176 posts)It's not a stupid ruling at all. The counterargument is so inane as to be laughable: "I own my password to their stuff so I can do with it whatever I want, outside of the terms I was given access under." You really want to try to defend that position? Fine by me, but as a creator of intellectual property, it's not a hill I want to die on.
If you don't like who the Netflix EULA allows you to share your password with...cancel your subscription.
The federal law you're hung up on concerns only password sharing outside of the agreed EULA...something that was already assumed to be a crime, but which Netflix was not pursuing. Now it's factually a crime based on this ruling...and they're still not pursuing.
This has fuck-all to do with anything you think it does. It doesn't concern you sharing the password with your wife, permitted under the EULA, which was always legal and remains so as you are permitted by the EULA to share your password with your wife as members of the same household. What the ruling concerns is you sharing your password in violation of the EULA with your friend that lives in an entirely different household 4 states away so he doesn't have to pay for his own account...that's now factually illegal, though Netflix won't be pursuing it, and you can't be sued or charged for piracy without an aggrieved party. So even if the FBI wanted to arrest you for giving your password to someone you're not permitted to under the EULA, they can't unless Netflix presses charges.
Nobody is getting prosecuted for illegally sharing their Netflix password so long as Netflix doesn't care enough to enforce their EULA.
Nobody is getting arrested for sharing their password with members of their household, even if Netflix does decide to care enough to start legally-pursuing violations of their EULA.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Or the FBI? I create IP as well. The Netflix EULA specifically permits sharing passwords with people you live with. The court is now saying that is illegal. I get the point that Netflix wont sue me since they make it clear in the EULA that it is allowed, but that does not exclude the possibility of a legal case. Again. ITS THE PRINCIPLE.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)No. They are not. That is what you are misunderstanding. It's still not a crime to share access with people permitted to have access; only people not permitted access under the terms of your access.
The court is saying your access-agreement (typically a EULA) is a legally-enforceable document with criminal penalties dependent on the outcomes of the breach of contract. (If you give your password to a non-permitted user you're a party to piracy, the same as you'd be an accessory to burglary if you gave the passcode to your boss's safe to your buddy so your buddy could steal from him.) You've been given access under a specific set of terms and if you breach those terms by sharing access with people you're not explicitly permitted to, you're committing a crime...even if the property owner granting access chooses to not pursue the crime.
They are specifically and only saying that password-sharing outside the agreed-upon terms (the EULA) is illegal, even if Netflix says they don't care if you share the password and aren't going to pursue violators. To be more precise, Netflix is not waiving their right to enforce the EULA later by not enforcing it today and violations of the EULA remain crimes even if the aggrieved party does not choose to pursue them now. This does not modify what is permissible within the EULA and anybody claiming it does is incorrect. It in no way affects your ability to share your password with your wife, just your ability to share your password with anybody Netflix hasn't given you permission to share it with.
I don't work for the FBI or Netflix.
The article is badly written and this is all fairly obvious if you actually read the ruling. I feel like this shouldn't be causing the controversy it is here...people seriously misunderstand what this ruling says and means...and more importantly, what it does not apply to.
PatSeg
(47,430 posts)"Though sharing passwords is now technically a federal crime, companies like Netflix Inc. and HBO are still all but shrugging off friends, family and significant others using each other’s accounts."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sharing-netflix-and-hbo-passwords-is-now-a-federal-crime-but-heres-why-not-to-worry-2016-07-12
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)That's kinda the problem. Netflix/HBO are cool with it, but people making the laws of the land are not (for whatever reason). Its really about the principle
PatSeg
(47,430 posts)to file any charges against their users. In the article, they said it was actually good for business.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)If Netflix is not claiming injury ie loss the government can't just bring charges.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)This will be very hard to prove.
woodsprite
(11,914 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Must be a slow day for outrage.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)it is a slow day to be outraged! Hrmmppphh,
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Sharing the password to my outrage is ill eagle (that's a sick bird btw).
trackfan
(3,650 posts)I kid, I kid!
