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Mon Jul 18, 2016, 11:46 AM

 

Another acquittal in the Freddie Gray case

Lt. Brian Rice, the highest ranking officer involved in the arrest and transport, found not guilty of all charges.

Do you think there's been a media blackout of the trials?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-rice-verdict-20160718-story.html

21 replies, 2457 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Another acquittal in the Freddie Gray case (Original post)
annavictorious Jul 2016 OP
ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #1
jonno99 Jul 2016 #5
ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #7
jonno99 Jul 2016 #8
ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #9
annavictorious Jul 2016 #17
annavictorious Jul 2016 #18
ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #19
annavictorious Jul 2016 #20
treestar Jul 2016 #13
ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #14
jonno99 Jul 2016 #2
annavictorious Jul 2016 #3
puffy socks Jul 2016 #4
Igel Jul 2016 #12
annavictorious Jul 2016 #6
dembotoz Jul 2016 #10
Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #11
treestar Jul 2016 #15
Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #16
annavictorious Jul 2016 #21

Response to annavictorious (Original post)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 11:49 AM

1. I thought the coroner ruled Freddie's death a homicide? How is homocide not...

 

...committed by...someone?

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:03 PM

5. It's the whole "presumption of innocence" thing. The prosecustion has to present

proof. Sadly, if no one "talks" - everyone walks...

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Response to jonno99 (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:13 PM

7. And then what happens to the homicide determination the coroner made? nt

 

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:18 PM

8. I don't know. My guess is that since there is no statue of limitations on murder, this will

probably end up in the "cold case" file - waiting for more information, a death-bed confession, etc.

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Response to jonno99 (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:19 PM

9. Thank you for your responses, jonno99. nt

 

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Response to jonno99 (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:46 PM

17. Was Freddie Gray's death ever ruled a murder?

 

Didn't Marilyn Mosby charge every cop who had anything to do with the arrest and transport? Who's left to be accused of murder?
This isn't a cold case. The cases have been/are being adjudicated.


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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:48 PM

18. The homicide determination will still stand.

 

It's just not a criminal homicide.

Homicide and murder are not synonyms.

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Response to annavictorious (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:50 PM

19. Gotcha. I think I knew that but thank you for the reminder, annavictorious. nt

 

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 01:15 PM

20. There was some testimony concerning the homicide determination during the driver's trial.

 

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:33 PM

13. Homicide is a neutral word

to describe all murders, manslaughter, voluntary and involuntary, self defense or even execution. The executioner does commit homicide, but of course that is legal. Successful self defense means you did commit a homicide, but it was legal.

The coroner's evidence would have been offered, so what conclusions jurors draw from it would give some idea.

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Response to treestar (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:37 PM

14. Thank you for the clarification, treestar. nt

 

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Response to annavictorious (Original post)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:00 PM

3. I know that not all homicides are crimes.

 

Some rise to the level of criminality, some are cases of non-criminal negligence, and some are accidents or justifiable acts.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

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Response to annavictorious (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:01 PM

4. This was no accident. nt

 

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Response to puffy socks (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:31 PM

12. And that's what proof beyond a reasonable doubt is for.

If it's not there, what's left is faith.

"Now faith means putting our full confidence in the things we hope for, it means being certain of things we cannot see."

Sadly, evidence,
"ground for belief" is from late 14c.; that of "obviousness" is from 1660s and tacks closely to the sense of evident. Legal senses are from c. 1500, when it began to oust witness.


And "evident" just describes something that is clearly seen.

We don't accept faith as proof in trials.

In the absence of actual evidence, what's left is a bias resulting from perceptual salience. (q.v.)

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Response to annavictorious (Original post)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:08 PM

6. What I find interesting

 

is that, given the attention this case garnered worldwide, the media has been strangely silent concerning the actual trials.

We have hobbyists, not journalists. They get on a kick, flood us with discussion and opinion 24/7, and then move on to the next "big" story without ever doing the follow up reporting on last week's "big" story..

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Response to annavictorious (Original post)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:20 PM

10. as if we needed more proof....black lives really DO NOT matter

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:30 PM

11. Does "Black Lives Matter" now trump the criminal justice process?

Pretty much every legal scholar I've seen and heard has agreed that the the State's Attorney overcharged, and in so doing presented extremely weak cases relative to the charges applied..

Every retort I've seen to the resulting acquittals has been the same: devoid of actual legal content, ignorant of criminal court process and proceeding. Guess what? "He died, and you were there, and I think you had something to do with it, therefore you're guilty" is not a valid avenue of prosecution.

The media has been mostly quiet about this because the whole mess has been an absolute train wreck from the day the officers were overcharged.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:44 PM

15. You're right

I guess in the context people also feel a black victim will result in jurors having views of the evidence that accept their preconceived biases. Part of the frustration of AA people with the justice system - like then the LA cops were acquitted in the Rodney King case.

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Response to treestar (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:45 PM

16. The Rodney King cops were as guilty as charged, as any fool could see.

I don't think these circumstances are the same.

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Response to treestar (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 18, 2016, 01:40 PM

21. All the acquittals were the result of bench trials.

 

There were no juries to be biased one way or another.

There was a mistrial in December of the first cop tried. The jury was deadlocked on all counts. The judge has imposed a gag order, so there is no definitive information on why the jury was hung. That officer will be retried after the final trial of the original six. William Porter has the legal right to opt for a bench trial the second time around.

The judge who acquitted the three cops tried before him is an AA who served in the Justice Department investigating police misconduct/corruption.

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