Why are shooting sports still allowed at the Olympics?

[Matrosov]

You would think that in this day and age, when gun nuts are responsible for hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths around the world each year, anything glorifying firearms would be struck from an international event such as the Olympics.

[stopbush]

1. Well, it's skill. No one is shooting at live targets.

Maybe we should do away with archery while we're at it. Maybe baseball, too, as you can get killed if you're beaned by the pitcher.

[Matrosov]

4. How many deaths in Chicago, Mexico City, Rio from

arrows and baseball bats?

[stopbush]

10. How many deaths by auto accidents?

Get rid of NASCAR?

[Matrosov]

16. Big difference

Between auto accidents and mowing down people deliberately with your car.

[stopbush]

21. Like the killer did in Nice?

What about car bombs?

[whistler162]

13. How many deaths from drowning?

We must ban water from the Olympics!

[AgadorSparticus]

15. Winner! 😂 lol

[hollowdweller]

153. Well nearly all sports involve one person dominating another so when you get right down to it

We should really get rid of any sport that involves people competing.

[woodsprite]

191. Many school field days have done just that.

It's all just group games instead, and everyone gets a participation ribbon.

[a la izquierda]

92. Mexico City is pretty safe, actually...

especially considering its size, around 22million people.

[beevul]

157. How many from Olympic target shooters? N/T

[Music Man]

2. Gun violence has claimed many lives,

and none of it is because shooting clay is an Olympic sport.

[trueblue2007]

12. MY OPINION. shooting sports in the olympics is pure crap

[RelativelyJones]

32. Ok, your opinion. Others have different opinions, including gun control advocates.

[Drahthaardogs]

59. Well, in my opinion so is marathon running

And badminton. One is an exercise the other a backyard game, but others disagree. It is fine.

[trueblue2007]

77. my opinion. so is nose picking.

nose picking doesn't kill people.

[Act_of_Reparation]

148. Javelins kill people

[CincyDem]

154. Nose picking with Javelins definitely kills people. n/t

[Travis_0004]

91. My opinon, I don't care about your opinion

The modern olympics were based on the ancient olympics. In the ancient olympics the games tended to focus on skills that made for good soldiers, and that is the reason shooting was included in the 1896 games.

[loyalsister]

25. I had a conversation where an individual minimized death from shooting

and opposed gun control for fear that it could intefere with their target shooting hobby. Glorification of guns is driving the culture that believes the ability to kill easily is a right. When someone aims and shoots an instrument designed to kill people and animals with the intentent to destroy it, it is a natural metaphor for shooting people.

[Demonaut]

3. marksmanship is not expressly meant for the killing of humans, people still hunt for food

it's not about glorifying air rifles
Archery is not about glorifying the bow

[loyalsister]

26. And the fact that the skill facilitates faster and easier killing is a coincidence?

It's glorification of the killing we see in action movies and that which leads people to mount their kills on their walls. None of it matters as long as marksment can practice the skill that kills people and animals.

[emulatorloo]

29. Knife skills are taught in cooking school. I am outraged that culinary institutes glorify violence

against vegetables. One moment they are slicing a tomato, next minute they are gutting their instructors.

[loyalsister]

47. How often do you see chefs killing people in the movies

or hear about such murders? Do you deny that a gun is unioversally regarded as an instrument that can and does kill people? Glorifying that instrument in sport or pleasure enables the people who use it for it's designed purpose. I wonder if the snipers and mass murderers took as much pride in their destruction as target shooters, USA olympians and those who celebrate them.

[emulatorloo]

51. How often do you see movies of KNIFE MURDERERS! I can think of many, starting with Hitchcock's

Psycho in the early 60s. The knife is universally regarded as an instrument to slit people's throats and disembowel them.

I know some very very sick home cooks who take great murderous joy from violently opening watermelons and seeing the blood-like red juice running all over the counter.

No one has yet written about American's bloodthirsty lust for more and more violent cooking competition shows.

There is one Food Network right now called CUTTHROAT KITCHEN! It is hosted by a raving sociopath by the name of Alton Brown. The contestants are encouraged to do increasingly aggressive and near violent things to one another.

There is another show on that same network called Cooks vs Cons, which I beleive is a "cooking" completion between non-violent chefs and convicted violent offenders.

[loyalsister]

52. How many children do myou see using squirt knives

and pretending they are heros in action films? Or maybe mom or dad destroying (killing) a clay pigeon?
Do you think it might be easier to kill people with a gun than with a knife? Do you think maybe that is why they were invented? Or was it so that people could brag about shooting targets in the olympics?

[emulatorloo]

55. There are no "squirt knives". However, there are "disappearing dagger" toys

"Squirt knives" is a Strawman.

Toy knives do exist, and the disappearing dagger toy is a particularly egregious version as it mimics a real knife's penetration into human flesh.


Disappearing Dagger Knife Retractable Tricky Magic Toy Gag Plastic Knife Prop
https://www.amazon.com/Disappearing-Dagger-Retractable-Tricky-Plastic/dp/B00EP5TRLE

Loftus International Economy Novelty Disappearing Knife
https://www.amazon.com/Loftus-International-Economy-Novelty-Disappearing/dp/B0006GK2RE/

I am afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree about this. I appreciate your passion and I hope you have a nice day.

[loyalsister]

58. This happened in my family

A 10 yr. old cousin shot his 8 yr. old sister in the mid 80s. He meant to scare her, but didn't realize the gun was loaded. If he had wanted to scare or even hurt her with a knife, it would have taken far more force than he could muster to sever her lower spinal cord. Fortunately, she survived and uses a wheelchair. As one might expect, the poor guy is a wreck. Neither of them should have had to experience this. But, dad loved to shoot targets and felt he had a right to be able to kill a home invader as efficiently as possible.

[emulatorloo]

62. So very sorry to hear about your cousins. My heart goes out to them.

[tblue37]

74. "Who Is Killing the Great Chefs of Europe?"

<iframe width="517" height="291" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cali]

5. I think the biathalon in the winter olympics is an amazing sport

[jberryhill]

63. I thought it was silly until I watched it

...now it's one of my favorites.

[MohRokTah]

65. I was close to trying out for the '84 biathalon.

Pursued other interests, though, mostly because I ahted the skiing part, but loved the shooting part.

[SeattleVet]

95. It's probably one of the hardest to perform, physically.

Cross country ski to the target area, then carefully place the shots while controlling the breathing and managing the heart rate. Extremes of physical activity.

[Eleanors38]

135. And if you are a crappy shot, you ski a penalty lap!

[SeattleVet]

143. It's also one of the few sports where men and women compete together

in some of the events. Equestrian, mixed doubles tennis and a few others.

[sarisataka]

6. Simple, shooting is not

about killing. It is a skill sport.

Many Olympic sports are/ were about combat. Archery, boxing, fencing, javelin... and more are combat skills in a competitive format.

The pentathlon is a combination event testing all the skills considered necessary for a modern (19th century) soldier.

[whistler162]

14. The Marathon.

[Drahthaardogs]

69. Fencing as well?

How about Taekwondo? Those were sports based on killing HUMANS almost exclusively.

This thread is dumb.

[Hoyt]

7. You have a point. I will say that the olympics don't have the events most gun nuts find exciting --

like urban warfare training, sniper shooting, George Zimmerman endorsed shooting, etc.

Olympic shooting is pretty much single shot air pistols or 22 calibre. I think there is also some clay pigeon shooting with double barrel shotguns. But there is none of the crap mass shooters, terrorists, public toters, NRA types, etc., would use or find thrilling. I bet most members of the gungeon, or white wingers who will frequent a gun store or show this weekend, aren't interested in Olympic style shooting.

You don't see the assault SYTLE weapons that give gunners a tingle, or semi-automatic pistols.


Your typical gun yahoo or terrorist aren't Olympic calibre:

?w=770&quality=85&strip=all&h=389




Vs. Olympic air rifle:

[Puha Ekapi]

56. You mean...

...like this "gun yahoo"?

[Hoyt]

57. No, I mean yahoos who need a gun in their pants to go out, like Zman.

[Puha Ekapi]

70. I am glad...

...you support her right to keep and bear arms. Tribal sovereignty, baby!

[Hoyt]

72. One or two At HOME for hunting and the unlikely need for self-dense.

[Puha Ekapi]

83. I don't hunt....

...at home

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

87. some of us do...

..."self-dense" at home... apparently...

[Hoyt]

98. Point is, you should leave your gunz at home like most people unless

the heading out for possum.

[Waldorf]

109. Kind of difficult going to the range when you leave your gunz at home. n/t

[Hoyt]

110. Another pointy finger gunner reader. BTW, what do you practice at the range?

[Waldorf]

111. I enjoy shooting at targets. I find it a relaxing hobby and meet some nice people there.

I usually take about 3-5 firearms and spend several hours.

[Hoyt]

112. Ain't that nice. Could you just fantasize about shooting for good of society?

[Waldorf]

116. No, I'd rather take my firearms to the range and shoot them. Besides, about 99.99% of them are not

used to murder anybody so I'd say they are fine. Getting rid of the criminals would seem to be much better for society.

[Marengo]

114. Are you opposed to range practice?

[Hoyt]

115. View it as part of sick habit, but depends on what you fantasize about when squeezing the trigger.

[Waldorf]

118. What is sick about it? Nothing. n/t

[Hoyt]

119. That is your minority opinion, shared only by gun fanciers.

[Waldorf]

121. Minority opinion? 80-100 million gun owners (fanciers as you call them) owning 350 firearms

doesn't sound like a minority to me.

[Hoyt]

129. Do the math -- 25 - 33% of population. That a minority. And of that, a lot just have an old gun

sitting around. In other words, guns are not a major part of their life, they don't train to shoot people or carry them to Chuck E Cheese.

[beevul]

160. No, Hoyt. The minority opinion, is that target shooting is sick...

No, Hoyt. The minority opinion, is that target shooting is sick. You couldn't even get a majority agreement with that opinion here on DU, let alone the real world.

[Duckhunter935]

120. hitting my paper plate in the center

not what you think. Why do you always think badly of everyone?

[Waldorf]

123. Sometimes I wonder if he thinks everybody at the range is just practicing to snipe someone from

a mile away. They aren't there enjoying themselves, just training to kill someone.

[Duckhunter935]

124. I know

not very nice in my opinion

[Marengo]

122. How else are hunters supposed to become efficient and accurate with their firearms?

You say it's okay to keep a couple of guns in the home for hunting and self defense, yet you condemn the practice needed to be proficient with those guns?

[Duckhunter935]

125. that is a great question

but I doubt you will get an answer, you will probably get some kind of insult.

[Marengo]

126. I don't understand the antagonism against range practice. Begs the question as to which he...

Thinks is more of a danger, the gun owner who understands how the weapon functions and how to handle it safely, or one with no practice whatsoever.

[Hoyt]

130. It's not rocket science or a major athletic feat. Christ, have you ever seen some of those yahoos

at the range, gun store, gun show, driving around with an NRA or "insured by S&W" sticker on their car (usually next to the W, Trump, or confederate flag sticker), etc.

[Marengo]

132. So, if I were to loan you an M1 rifle and take you to a John C Garand match, you would shoot...

A perfect score? With NO range practice?

[oneshooter]

140. He can not posses a firearm.

As he used to be an armed robber, by his own confession.

[Marengo]

141. Hoyt is a prohibited person? Has he confirmed this?

[oneshooter]

144. He did claim to have been an armed robber in his earlier years.

[Marengo]

146. Interesting, I've asked him directly in this thread.

[Marengo]

142. Hoyt, are you prohibited from possessing a firearm?

[snooper2]

158. do did your right to own firearms get taken away by the government?

[beevul]

162. No, its ideological voodoo, hoyt.

It's not rocket science or a major athletic feat. Christ, have you ever seen some of those yahoos at the range, gun store, gun show, driving around with an NRA or "insured by S&W" sticker on their car (usually next to the W, Trump, or confederate flag sticker), etc.

No, its ideological voodoo, hoyt, practiced by you. You don't have any insight into the bulk of gun owners, just a few limited examples within your own experiences, chosen to suit your own bias. Then you begin with the disparaging labels (do be a good lad and post a few of those pics you love to post, and prove me right) and the hate, and all focused toward gun owners in general, with only the thinnest of mealy-mouthed hemming and hawing for the classic iverglas cover "I said x but I meant y".

[Marengo]

200. Hoyt, are you prohibited from possessing a firearm?

[jack_krass]

138. What do you fantasize about whilst rubbing the barrel?

[Hoyt]

128. Too many gunners mean this when they talk about "range" practice.

[Marengo]

133. So? What of it?

[TipTok]

145. Are only skinny people allowed to practice?

What's your point?

[Marengo]

147. Apparently, over-weight white males practice for only nefarious reasons.

[Eleanors38]

136. Actually, it's easy going to the range without a gun. But stupid!

[beevul]

159. And you should leave your speech at home.

Since we're freely bandying about opinions and all.

[Duckhunter935]

86. Who hunts at home?

[Duckhunter935]

100. yes, some of us are smart enough

to point out stupid posts.

Note to jurors, I said the post was stupid, not the poster. Everyone posts stupid posts at times.

[Hoyt]

117. My point is, genius, you leave your guns at home until going hunting (I'm talking deer, etc.).

You don't carry them when going to the store.

[snooper2]

156. Do you keep those pics saved in a text file or you have to google search each time?

[MicaelS]

8. Because they are Sports

And the Olympics are about Amateur Sports. Not everything has to be a political statement.

[Amishman]

24. this, and its a very popular sporting class in general

and the guns involved are very different from those used in crimes/violence

just because it involves a gun, does not make it bad by definition

[Exilednight]

165. Then why do we send pro athletes. I would also argue, any "sport" you

Can do with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth and get the same results really isn't a sport.

And yes, professional shooters do occasionally smoke. It slows the heart and steadies the hands for short durations.

[Heeeeers Johnny]

9. It's one of the 9 events from the first modern Olympics for one thing.

It brings new shooters to the sport, and instills, teaches safe firearms handling.

I see no reason at all to eliminate it.

Shooting sports have been included at every Summer Olympic Games since the birth of the modern Olympic movement at the 1896 Summer Olympics except at the 1904 & 1928 editions.

Men's Shooting was one of the nine events at the first modern Olympic Games in Athens, in 1896. In the Paris Games in 1900, live pigeons were used as moving targets. After the 1900 games, the pigeons were replaced with clay targets. In 1907, the International Shooting Sport Federation came into existence and brought some standardizations to the sport.

When shooting was reintroduced in 1932, it consisted of only two events. From this, the number of events have increased steadily until reaching the 2000–2004 maximum of seventeen events. The 2008 games had only fifteen. Events marked as "Men's" were actually open events from 1968 until 1980 (and in shotgun events until 1992). Two women won medals in such mixed events: Margaret Murdock, silver in Rifle 3 positions (1976) and Zhang Shan, gold in Skeet (1992).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_at_the_Summer_Olympics#Nations

[Lint Head]

11. How many people die from choking on a Kleenex?

Kleenex is not a weapon. It doesn't matter. When I hear this cars kill more people, baseball bats kill more people, knives kill more people it's nothing more than grasping for straws. And I'm sure straw has killed people too. Anyone understanding human history knows that guns were invented to kill. Target practice at that time was target practice to be sure you kill more sufficiently. Cars were not invented as weapons. Baseball bats are for playing baseball. But I'm sure cave men and women used large sticks and rocks to kill their prey. Too bad they didn't have automatic rocks and automatic sticks.

[ileus]

31. My firearms were invented to save lives.

Well some of them.

Others were designed to hunt, and still others for competition.

I don't have any (besides maybe a 1956 Chinese SKS) that was designed to kill.

[Hoyt]

36. Zimmerman, Dunn, etc., felt the same way about their gunz.

[Lint Head]

54. Read about the origins of the gun. Or any other weapon for

Last edited Sat Aug 6, 2016, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

that matter. The 50's is several hundred years away from tools invented to kill.

[Javaman]

196. ...

https://warisboring.com/the-best-handgun-ever-stopped-attackers-cold-b4cc0c0dae1c#.pf1nkepbu

The history of the M1911 begins in the Philippines during the Spanish-American War, when U.S. soldiers and Marines found themselves locked in fierce combat with the Moro, a knife-wielding native insurgency that combined religious zeal and potent drug use.
Much of the fighting was close-quarters battle and the hopped-up Moros took round after round from U.S. .38-caliber pistols while they continued to hack away at Americans.
If anything positive came from the bloody 15-year guerrilla war, it was the realization that the U.S. military needed a better pistol.
A look back at an older weapon pointed the way to a solution. In desperation, the Army had issued Colt Model 1873 .45-caliber revolvers—dating back to the Plains Indian Wars—to soldiers fighting the Moros.

more at link...

[SCantiGOP]

103. Automatic rocks?

Thanks for lightening up the thread while still making some very good points.

[beevul]

163. So what?

If its about deaths, it doesn't matter if the discussion is about weapons or not.

[deathrind]

17. Humans...

Kill other humans with all sorts of objects in all sorts of ways...humans should be banned from the Olympics...

[Yo_Mama]

18. A lot of traditional events are rooted in the martial tradition.

Javelin, running, archery, shot-put, discus, to name a few. The track and field pentathlon goes all the way back to the original Greek competitions. It's a soldier's skill box of that time.

What do you think they were glorifying?

[Eleanors38]

38. Good post. The ancient games were based primarily on combat arts and implememts.

[bhikkhu]

85. And many modern sports are more or less obvious proxies for our warlike tendencies

Not to say that's a bad thing at all, but it is a real thing.

Marksmanship is definitely a skill, as is archery. I think competitive sports are a fantastic celebration of human nature, in the big picture. It would be a delusion to say that human nature is harmless, but channeling it into sports is, in a sense, a way of making our species a more beautiful thing.

[Yo_Mama]

127. Love your point!! You phrased that so well.

I had some vague idea in my mind that one of the benefits of the Olympics is that it channels the (sometimes necessary) competitive/martial spirit into a friendly and collegial international collaborative festival.

Human beings are animals with cultures - and a culture that develops a way to channel our more instinctive drives into a binding and healthy cultural tradition is a strong culture.

[Eleanors38]

134. "channeling" warrior tendencies into games is practice by a rainbow of cultures.

Thank goodness. Ben-Hur ain't got nothing on NASCAR!

[awoke_in_2003]

88. Yep

Patton represented the US in the pentathlon.

[oneshooter]

19. First gold medal awarded to American shooter

RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuters) - Unflappable American teenager Virginia Thrasher won the first gold medal of the Rio 2016 Olympic Games on Saturday, holding her nerve against two Chinese Olympic champions to clinch the women's 10m air rifle event.

The 19-year-old U.S. college champion edged out China's Du Li, gold in Athens in 2004, with an Olympic-record score of 208 in the sport's new finals format. Defending Olympic champion Yi Siling, also of China, took the bronze medal.

Competing in her first Olympics, Thrasher, as the first champion of the 2016 Games, was awarded her medal by International Olympic Committee (IOC) president Thomas Bach and said the achievement was beyond her wildest dreams.

So she should return it because.................

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shooting-american-thrasher-wins-first-gold-games-140536631--oly.html

[former9thward]

20. The world doesn't share your narrow opinion.

Fortunately.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

105. This ^^^^^^^^^^

[jcgoldie]

22. Thats too far

I'm as anti handgun and automatic weapon as you get. I despise the NRA and I identify with the spirit of your argument but I'm also a farmer. I own a rifle. I do not hunt. I do not own it for self defense. But I shoot raccoons hanging around my chicken coop and I shoot coyotes who will come after my dairy goats and I shoot poisonous snakes in the lake. There are legitimate reasons to own guns and there is nothing wrong with appreciating marksmanship even if it doesn't apply in the urban world.

[malaise]

23. Because the military has always been a major part of

the Olympic bosses.

[emulatorloo]

33. Yes, the surface-to-air missile competition makes this painfully obvious

[malaise]

34. Study the Olympic Movement before the corporatie bosses moved in

to promote their brands from around 1984. Houlihan is a good source. So is Andrew Jennings. Royalty, nobility, fascists, military bigwigs, misogynists and racists ran the show.

[emulatorloo]

41. Yes I'm aware of the politicization of the olympics. 1936 for example. Still doesn't make Archery

Or Shooting Events Hitlerian though.

[malaise]

42. There are powerful and influential international sports associations

by tradition.

I never said that - tradition and influence do matter.

[emulatorloo]

44. I never said you did. I used summer 1936 as an example of political manipulation of Olympics

As a counter to the notion that politically neutral and traditional sporting events like markmanship and archery are being foisted on the world by the military, etc

[NuclearDem]

48. Shooting has been a part of the modern Olympics since the first one in 1896.

Shooting, fencing, wrestling, and martial arts remain in the Olympics because they were the type of sports which made up the ancient Olympics.

Or, argle bargle corporations argle bargle, I guess.

[PoutrageFatigue]

161. My personal fave is the Indiscriminate Carpet-Bombing, but I hear that's being dropped...

....to be replaced by the 'Wedding Party Remote Droning' event. The added benefit for that event of course is that the 'athletes' don't physically have to attend the games to participate....

[ileus]

27. Why wouldn't the shooting sports not be allowed?

Are gun nuts really responsible for hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths each year? Or is that perhaps hyperbole?

[emulatorloo]

28. Thanks! Was unaware that the US shooting team caused a brutal bloodbath in Rio today

Has the gold medalist been arrested?

[Dr. Strange]

37. No, but her assault air rifle was confiscated.

[emulatorloo]

39. ...

[Uponthegears]

30. Congratulations

You have managed to confirm the NRA meme that those who oppose their agenda have villainized an inanimate object. Guns are not evil, the meme that individuals have a real (not just academic or hypothetical) need and a right to posses a gun for the purpose of self-defense is evil.

[MicaelS]

64. Self defense is never evil.

And a gun is one of the best tools for that use. Gun Control is the idea that a 110 pound woman should have to fistfight her rapist.

[Uponthegears]

66. The evil is

preaching to (primarily) white folks that they face a risk of becoming the victim of violent crime (if we were honest about the NRA, at the hand of people of color) that is greater than the risk created by increasing the supply of weapons in the stream of commerce (private market).

Racist and deceitful, that qualifies as evil.

[ripcord]

73. Vice President Biden suggested people get a shotgun for home protection.

[Puha Ekapi]

89. I'd wager....

...that Vice President Biden doesn't know jack about home self defense. He doesn't have to worry about it, he has a security detail armed with fully automatic weapons

[FrodosPet]

188. He knows enough to know that a shotgun is better than a handgun or rifle

Less precise aim required, and if you miss, the ammo is probably not going to penetrate several walls and kill bystanders.

[beergood]

201. the biggest issue

people have with his advise is the two warning shots from a double barrel shotgun.

for those who don't know a double barrel shotgun only holds two rounds, so once you fire those your out of ammo and sol.

[EX500rider]

204. "....get a shotgun for home protection"

If i am trying to clear my house of an armed intruder, the last thing I want is a 48" weapon, to unwieldy and hard to clear around corners. Plus people who think a shotgun has a wide spread at close distances don't know shotguns. At inside ranges the spread is negligible.

[Matrosov]

170. The problem is with what that inaminate object represents to those who lust for it

Power.

A gun may not be able to make a conscious effort to have a mind-altering affect on anyone, but it's also true that for many a firearm represents power - the ability to control others, the ability to take the life of another.

[Uponthegears]

199. Not to be flippant

But you could say the same thing about a penis.

Sometimes, "within the system" liberals are prone to objectify certain problems because they are scared of the political ramifications of being honest. Your attack on Olympic shooting competition is a good example. Using a gun for a non-violent purpose (here, punching little holes into a paper target) is a good thing. Indeed, it might be seen as the proverbial "turning swords into plowshares." Rather than discuss that distinction, however, you remove the piece of paper, replace it with Kindergartners at Sandy Hook, movie goers in Aurora, cops in Ferguson, "neighborhood watchers" in Sanford, and clubbers in Orlando, and simply proclaim "Gun's bad." Unfortunately for OUR cause, you do nothing to change the excited teenager who spent thousands of hours to do something to honor her grandfather into George Zimmerman. That incongruency turns your meme into something that is very nearly laughable.

The more courageous and accurate path is to explain the difference between those two shooters. I say "courageous" because discussing the roots and the origins of the self-protection mentality requires good solid Democrats to admit that they themselves, in some cases, and a huge swath of the voting populace, in any event, accept as true the fairly clearly racist premise that they, in their privileged suburban worlds, are in danger. They are not. The myth of suburban crime is a mere continuation of the fear in the plantation big house that those who they have oppressed with rise up, break down the doors, and do with them what they will. It is a collection of a handful anecdotal stories of victimized white suburbanites combined with crime statistics which include crimes against the very people those white suburbanites continue to enslave.

No one, of course, will say that. Those people still living in the big house and cueing up at the local gun shop to pick up their Sig 9mm are voters and they are donors and they are deniers of the privilege under which they live.

[beevul]

203. "a firearm represents power - the ability to control others"

"a firearm represents power - the ability to control others"

For many others, its probably safe to say, that a firearm represents power - the ability to not be controlled by others.

[beergood]

202. "need and a right to posses a gun for the purpose of self-defense is evil."

do you deny that certin groups are targeted more than others, do they not have a right to defend themselves. you proudly wave the gay pride flag, would you deny an lgbt person from possessing a firearm for self defense.

here are a few examples of lgbt people who chose firearms

http://forum.pinkpistols.org/index.php?topic=20.0

[Uponthegears]

213. No doubt some groups are more targeted than others

Of course, one of those groups is thrown up to white suburbanites as the reason they "need" to have a gun.

As for trying to use LGBT assaults as a diversion (and ignoring the fact that 90% of "2nd Amendment people" are ALSO out there fomenting anti-LGBT hatred), the question remains the same . . . Is the additional risk created by bringing a gun into the home, combined with the additional risk created by placing more guns into the stream of commerce (thus making them cheaper and easier to obtain), greater than the risk that the white suburbanites who are buying guns like they are Skittles will EVER face an immediate threat of serious bodily injury or death at the hands of anyone OTHER than the person who went with them to buy the gun in the first place (and who now has equal access to the same gun)?

[jmg257]

222. Plenty of people will answer that question "yes" - the risk is worth it. Millions in fact seem to.

Especially if they find other uses for guns besides "self-defense".

[XemaSab]

35. Why are boxing

fencing, archery, judo, taekwondo, and wrestling allowed?

It just glorifies violence.

[MohRokTah]

40. OFFS!

[dlwickham]

80. pretty much

[pablo_marmol]

176. Possibly the only truly appropriate response to the OP. NT

[DustyJoe]

43. bit of a stretch

gun nuts are responsible for hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths around the world each year

How many 'gun nutz' we talking about here for millions of killings annualy ?

But we get the drift, you don't like gunz or shooters either.

[Mopar151]

45. I know several competition shooters, and some serious hunters.

Serious enough that they process their own meat, because it tastes a LOT better. I've eaten a bunch of venison at their table, and it was exquisite.
More to the point - I din't know anyone more appalled by open carry than these guys.
The former state champion (hi-power match rifle) encountered a former friend of ours, who showed up at an event with his new woman, both packing major heat. "She's a little bit of a thing, and the holster was almost to her knee. And the kid she was carryin' kept kickin' the holster! What the f***!"
One of the hunters : " I'm not doing 10-25 because somebody pissed me off too much! All my rifles are unloaded and put away."

[TransitJohn]

46. Oy-fucking-vey!

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. Aw... come on. You're just stirrin' shit, ain't ya? Ain't ya?

Sure you are.

[actslikeacarrot]

50. Haha! Oh DU! Never change! N/T

[Warpy]

53. Not everybody with a gun is a gun nut, the gun nuts just give other people a very bad name

I live out west where people need their long guns for scaring the bears out of the garbage and protecting their livestock from some pretty efficient predators. Others hunt when they're lucky enough to get a permit away from an out of state thrill hunter in order to fill the freezer with protein. Otherwise, it's beans and government cheese for a lot of them.

It's the semi auto pistols around here that do the damage to other humans. You know, the kind favored by gun nuts.

Shooting contests with long guns don't bother me in the least. It's a skill that deserves recognition. Besides, things like discus, shot put and javelin were all military skills to be used on other humans. Martial arts used to be the whole Olympics.

[Calculating]

60. Come on...

This is what you're gonna be offended by? The olympic shooting competition doesn't involve military style guns and is a test of skill.

[tallahasseedem]

61. I don't agree...

It's a skill and done in a controlled environment. Let's stay focused on real issues.

[pipoman]

67. Oh geez...

Goofy.

[AngryAmish]

68. Just when DU hits turd-gazing level of stupidity, over the top it goes!

I love this place. I love DU!!!!!

[duncang]

71. Gun nut here!

A explanation of who I am in regards to guns. It is a long intro to my reasoning on the Olympics shooting sports. So excuse me.

First I consider myself a sane gun owner. I was raised with guns in the house. My father hunted and put food on the table. He never even took trophies. It was all about the meat. When I hunted it was the same thing for me. I never went hunting for the trophy shot.

I am sure I have well above average amount of guns then most people even in my state Texas. I have 19 guns of varying sizes and styles. I will admit most are black powder guns. But almost half are cartridge weapons I.E. pistols, shotguns, rifles.
I do not have any of the semi-auto or fully auto military style weapons though. I don't even carry a self defense weapon. I figure after over 60 years and never having to think about using one. I really don't need to start carrying one. Personally I don't see the need of a assault type weapon.

I do not support the nra. To me they stopped actually thinking about the sport, hobby, or hunting firearms user a long time back. Their main support now is going to the manufacturers who make the weapons. To me even though they say they support gun safety it is just lip service.

I support the background checks on all gun sales and want to see even more information shared across state lines then goes on now. I would like to see the background check loopholes closed for on line and gun show sales. I also support a ban on assault weapons sales. At very least it should be very restricted. I'm talking along the lines of those gun ranges that let you shot them. Not for personal use.

Now to the actual meat of it. The Olympics is a contest of skill. The same type of skill you see in a game of billiards. It takes years training and practice. To me that is the real difference. It isn't just get out there and toss as much lead as you can in a few seconds and hope you hit something. It isn't some kind of paranoid worry that the end of civilization is coming. It is as much a sport as any other one being done there.

[Kaleva]

75. I disagree.

[JonathanRackham]

76. Olympic sports related to the art of war.

Archery, javelin, hammer throw, discus, the various biathelons, the hand to hand combat sports of wrestling and judo. Many have Greek roots with some from Asian cultures.

Skills of war turned into competition.

Do you approve of ballroom dancing?

[rogerashton]

78. As a rated expert marksman

-- a few decades back -- I support serious gun controls. But sport shooting is not the problem. I would like to see firearms with repeating magazines, and revolvers, prohibited from civilian possession. Sport shooting and hunting for sport do not require repeating weapons.

That said, target shooting is a sport. The olympic air rifle competition is not a threat to anybody. Hurrah for Virginia!

[liberal N proud]

79. For America

[relayerbob]

81. I'm anti-gun but I sure prefer them

to more basketball, soccer and tennis. Individual skill and training interests me far more than teams of pros playing one another again. At least the shooting takes skill and in some cases skill and endurance

[rockfordfile]

82. I have no problem with it in the Olympics

[SusanCalvin]

84. Because they're combat skills.

That's the origin of the Olympics.

[mythology]

90. I would argue for it being removed as not a real sport

Much like bowling it's not a sport. It's an activity. If you can do it properly without sweating or being out of breath, it's not a sport. Yes it's hard, but difficulty alone isn't enough to make something a sport. Likewise I consider any of the equestrian events sports either as it's the horse doing the real work.

And while I'm grousing about the Olympics, I really wish people would stop calling Michael Phelps the greatest Olympian because his sport considers the 100, 200, 400, etc different events for every different style of swimming stroke.

[pipoman]

108. The entire world disagrees with you.

[Bucky]

93. I'm adding my voice to the "shooting is a sport" side

the whole point of the Olympics is to celebrate physical vitality needed by warriors. It makes perfect sense to have Shooting Sports as a category.

[Seeking Serenity]

94. I agree!

The Olympics shouldn't feature anything but competitive GOP bashing, intersectional feminist discussions, and kumbaya singing. That's it. Oh, and ballroom dancing.

[MicaelS]

194. Can't have ballroom dancing.

The female partner is dancing backwards.

[LostOne4Ever]

96. ...

[Abq_Sarah]

99. I'm beginning to think

We should make pearl clutching an Olympic sport.

[El Supremo]

101. USA! USA! USA!

Are we going to win every gold medal?

[chillfactor]

102. it is a valid sport...

I was an archer when I was younger and I loved watching the archery competition today. Tough if you don't like it.

[GulfCoast66]

104. This does nothing to help your cause

And the javelin must be especially traumatic. The Roman empire killed countless innocent people building their empire with the javelin. And can you believe they still have fencing. Swords for Gods sake. And those horrible kung-fu kind of sports. And wrestling. Boxing, the horror.

And do they still have those awful equestrian sports. Not only do those skill get their rules from Calvary tactics, think of the poor horses who have to run so hard.

Let's just cancel the whole thing.

I am for more restrictions on firearms. But this kind on concern dies not help.

[Loki Liesmith]

106. Praying that this is trolling

The alternative is too embarrassing.

[flvegan]

107. Well, it's a skill you see.

And the end of your fork is probably more responsible for those "millions of deaths around the world" than someone with a gun.

Think. It's not a crime.

[fishwax]

113. lol n/t

[Straw Man]

131. Because ...

Why are shooting sports still allowed at the Olympics?

... not everybody subscribes to an ideologically motivated and hysterical totemism that promotes culture war and deepens political divisions.

[pablo_marmol]

177. +1,000.......and BRAVO. NT

[Throd]

137. Apparently we should replace it with hand wringing.

[aikoaiko]

139. Is this satire?

Please don't make fun of the anti-gunners.

[Act_of_Reparation]

149. I was wondering that myself.

[pablo_marmol]

151. Ha ha ha.........perfect response.

This line is really something else:

.......when gun nuts are responsible for hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths around the world each year......

Ahem ------ no. Irrefutable law enforcement stats demonstrate that the vast majority of gun mayhem is committed by those with criminal records.

But let's increase the odds of a Trump presidency by spewing these lies. Let's keep pissing away down-ballot elections.

[Matrosov]

168. Lies?

Irrefutable law enforcement stats demonstrate that the vast majority of gun mayhem is committed by those with criminal records.

Who keeps enabling them? Gun nuts, who'll gladly turn a blind eye to the epidemic of violence and say inane things like 'Well, mah guns never hurt nobody' or 'That there Constutition gives me the right to a firearm, it don't give you the right not to be shot by one.'

If guns nuts wouldn't enable civilian gun ownership, those with criminal records wouldn't be able to get their hands on guns.

[pablo_marmol]

172. "If gun nuts wouldn't enable civilian gun ownership, those with criminal records........

.......wouldn't be able to get their hands on guns."

Ah yes ------ the filthy, dishonest "enabling" card. Given the very small percentage of guns required to supply the criminal element with the tools of their trade, even if we slashed the number of guns down to 25% of current numbers criminals would still be able to acquire them with ease. And of course you dismiss the reality that demand creates it's own supply.

No wonder liberals are viewed by so many as hopeless Pollyannas. You've been reminded countless times that it's absurd to believe that the genie will return to the bottle ---- yet you continue to believe in fairy tales. Sad, really.

[friendly_iconoclast]

183. "That there Constutition... don't give you the right not to be shot by one."

Have you got any other strawman arguments for us?

[pablo_marmol]

187. "Lies?" Yes. Lies. And it seems that you can't avoid telling them.

Re. the favorite "epidemic of violence" lie:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

http://www.guncite.com/journals/tennmed.html

[Straw Man]

189. Enabling?

Who keeps enabling them? Gun nuts, who'll gladly turn a blind eye to the epidemic of violence and say inane things like 'Well, mah guns never hurt nobody' or 'That there Constutition gives me the right to a firearm, it don't give you the right not to be shot by one.'

Enabling? Please. One person's gun ownership has nothing to do with another's illegal use of guns. "No guns, no gun deaths" is a meaningless tautology, and has nothing to do with the reality of American politics, unless you're aiming at a total ban on civilian gun ownership, something that not even Japan and the UK have done.

Minus 10 rhetorical points for the crude classism of your attempts at dialect. It's no wonder that the Democratic Party is losing rural voters like a compulsive gambler loses money.

In fact, the Constitution does not give you the "right not to be shot." Such legal protections properly belong to the various criminal codes that regulate our society.

If guns nuts wouldn't enable civilian gun ownership, those with criminal records wouldn't be able to get their hands on guns.

So shall we put you down in the "absolutely no civilian ownership of guns" column, then? I just like to be clear so that I can dismiss any pious cant about "reasonable laws" and "compromise."

[EX500rider]

205. "If guns nuts wouldn't enable civilian gun ownership............

.................those with criminal records wouldn't be able to get their hands on guns."

Like in gun free Mexico & Jamaica, etc? lol Good one!!!


Mexico 15.7 homicides per 100,000
Jamaica 36.1 " " "
United States 3.9 " " "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[Matrosov]

169. How am I making fun?

I call for a complete ban on civilian gun ownership on a regular basis. I criticize other 'controllers' on a regular basis for being too soft in their approach

[aikoaiko]

190. Oh my. Well then, carry on.

[MicaelS]

195. You are living in a fantasy world....

If you honestly believe there will be civilian disarmament in the US.

[pault420]

150. More kids, families and innocent people are being wiped out by alcohol consumption

And I'm quite sure they're serving alcohol at the olympics, nor do I see anyone really caring or doing anything about it either so.

[hollowdweller]

152. Because target shooting is a skill. It's also fun.

Like Archery or Javelin throwing.

[NaturalHigh]

155. Is your OP meant to be taken seriously or as satire?

I honestly can't tell.

[Calculating]

164. This thread is now officially being mocked

Over on that ar15 site. Makes liberals look like a bunch of idiots.

[Matrosov]

167. ARFCOM thinks anyone with an IQ above room temperature is an idiot

I lurk there, among other right wing extremist sites. I saw the thread. 'Know thy enemy,' he said.

I take it as a compliment. They're among the craziest people I've ever seen, worrying about Obama and Clinton putting them into FEMA concentration camps and having wet dreams about voting from the rooftops.

[pablo_marmol]

173. It could honestly be argued........

........that those who believe that genies can be crammed back into their bottles are idiots as well.

[Matrosov]

166. My issue is with 'shooting sports' legitimizing firearms and shooting

Ah, yes, Olympic target shooters have never hurt anybody, eh? They're not the ones committing mass murder in places like Orlando, huh?

You're missing the point.

The fight against gun violence is as much as a cultural fight as one of legislation. The Olympics are an event with billions of people watching and paying attention to the news, and it would've been the perfect opportunity to take a stand against gun culture.

What do we expect when children can turn on the television and watch competitions in which lethal weapons are used, when guns and 'marksmanship' are glorified as legitimate and normal.

Maybe it wasn't an Olympic target shooter killing people in Orlando, but as long as we haven't reached a point where the majority of the populace has a strong disdain for anything having to do with firearms, we also can't hope to change the legislative landscape that allows this kind of mass murder to continue to happen.

[pablo_marmol]

174. Your "moral" dilemma w/regard to guns is no different than a fundie's "moral" dilemma with gays.

Last edited Tue Aug 9, 2016, 12:57 AM - Edit history (1)

You simply lack the self-awareness to recognize this fact.

[friendly_iconoclast]

185. Exactly- see the Robert Bork quote in post #184. Your post brought it to mind.

As you have seen, the controlling mindset is not confined to the right wing...

[pablo_marmol]

186. Thanks for that. Hard to keep track.......

..........of the many different ways we undermine our credibility/moral authority/political capital based on our behavior relating to the issue of gun violence. Deeply troubling.

[friendly_iconoclast]

184. Your 'issue' is merely Robert Bork's theory of 'moral harm', applied to a different subject:

The dissent makes a point of the fact that Hardwick's behavior was
not physically dangerous to those engaged in it or to others and refers to "victimless" activity.
That, as we have reason to know, is not true. But, in any event, physical danger
does not exhaust the categories of harms society may seek to prevent by legislation,
and no activity that society thinks is immoral is victimless. Knowledge that an activity
is taking place is a harm to those who find it profoundly immoral.

Robert Bork, The Tempting of America, page 123.

Sad to see the same 'logic' used to justify the criminalization of consensual acts between
consenting adults being expressed at DU.

[Odin2005]

193. So do you want to ban archery, too?

[RagAss]

171. We've had World Wars and nobody thought of banning them....

I hope this OP is a joke.

[pablo_marmol]

175. "I hope this OP is a joke."

Sadly, it is not. Neither are the political defeats we sustain as a direct result of this type of nonsense.

[Matrosov]

207. I would disagree

Of course

Our defeats aren't a result of [my type of] nonsense, but of progressives taking it easy whenever there isn't yet another mass shooting featuring an assault rifle in the news. 'Controllers' are very seasonal, they tend to care about gun control only when the blood is still drying at the scene of the latest mass murder.

That's what I keep pointing out, and sometimes it even gets my post hidden, because someone felt that my arguments were really just NRA talking points rather than a call to get civilian firearm ownership outlawed. It would be amusing if it weren't so frustrating.

[MicaelS]

209. The irony is hilarious.

You post a smilie of hitting your head against a brick wall, and that is what you are exactly trying to do with advocating civilian disarmament. I would estimate the real number of people advocating your position is miniscule.

The other irony is civilian disarmament would leave the guns in the hands of Law Enforcement and the Military, which are frequently accused of being racist, sexist, homophobic, fascist and warmongers by many on the left.

And if you think Law Enforcement and the Military will be disarmed, you are living in a fantasy world.

[Matrosov]

216. Not looking to disarm LEOs and MIL

Law Enforcement and Military might have their problems with white boys looking to play Rambo, but I'd still trust both groups more than civilian white boys looking to play Rambo.

[pablo_marmol]

211. Of course you would disagree.

You don't seem to be terribly concerned with how out-of-step your position is with those of your fellow citizens.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/17/despite-lower-crime-rates-support-for-gun-rights-increases/

[Binkie The Clown]

178. Millions of deaths per year is a gross exageration.

Automobiles are responsible for more deaths than guns, yet they aren't shutting down the Indy 500.

I am a strong supporter of gun control legislation.
I do not own a gun, and have not owned a gun for the last 50 years.
When I was in the Air Force 55 years ago I enjoyed target shooting very much.
I continued to enjoy target shooting for some years after going back to civilian life.
It's a skill. It's a sport. It has a place in the Olympics.

Should archery also be banned?

How about javelin?

[LongtimeAZDem]

179. Károly Takács is one of the most inspiring competitors of the modern games

"Karoly Takacs was a member of the Hungarian pistol shooting team in 1938 when, while serving as a sergeant in the army, a defective grenade exploded in his right hand - his pistol hand -and shattered it completely. After spending a month in the hospital, Takacs secretly taught himself to shoot with his left hand. "

Károly Takács

[TXIRISHWOMAN]

180. Think of target shooting as bowling with explosives.

It's kind of fun for the focus, tuning everything out except the job at hand, and showing the discipline to do it right. Some people get the same zen moments from golf, this just has less walking and more earplugs.

[stopbush]

181. Why is boxing still an Olympic "sport?"

You'd think the death of Ali who suffered brain damage from his boxing days would give people cause about the continuation of this brutal spectacle.

[romanic]

182. JFC

No one is forcing you to watch, go flip the tv to The Teletubbies or something.

[Odin2005]

192. Are you fucking serious?

Do you want to ban archery, too?

[Matrosov]

206. Yeah, I'm fucking serious

Look at the many 'progressive' gun nuts this thread has unearthed.

Stigmatize gun ownership, ban civilian firearm ownership, and the US will see a major decline in violence, yet these 'progressives' *cough*right wingers posing as Democrats*cough* keep coming up with excuses why they need assault weapons to plink paper targets and kill the occasional varmints

[Odin2005]

210. So you think every Dem who owns a gun is a wingnut posing as a Dem?

What a steaming pantload of crap. So you think all hunters are evil "gun nuts"? All ranchers and backwoods people are evil "gun nuts"? My stepdad was a progressive all his life and was an avid hunter, what he an evil "gun nut", too?

[Matrosov]

214. Sadly

Hunters might be our closest allies among gun owners - interestingly, the real gun nuts like to refer to them as 'Fudds' - but I'd argue that allowing any civilian the ability to own a gun will only play into the hands of the criminals.

[Straw Man]

212. I'm sure you are serious.

Stigmatize gun ownership, ban civilian firearm ownership, and the US will see a major decline in violence, yet these 'progressives' *cough*right wingers posing as Democrats*cough* keep coming up with excuses why they need assault weapons to plink paper targets and kill the occasional varmints.

Serious as a heart attack; serious as a loss of the Presidency and the Congress for the foreseeable future; serious as handing Donald Trump the choice of the next two or three Supreme Court Justices.

If you think you can "stigmatize" Americans out of firearms ownership, you're sadly mistaken. That culture war is unwinnable and would open a schism in this country that would make the current political climate look like a church picnic.

Banning civilian gun ownership would require amending the Constitution, i.e. repealing the Second Amendment. Can you say "Civil War II"? I knew that you could.

That's a nasty cough you've got there. I've been a registered, voting Democrat since I turned 18, and I was fundraising for Eugene McCarthy before I was old enough to vote. Spew your aspersions elsewhere, please.

[Matrosov]

215. It's not unwinnable

Same-sex marriage used to be a culture war that was supposedly unwinnable. These days loving couples are free to marry while the hateful homophobes are on the retreat.

[Marengo]

217. The complete surrender of armed power to the state is analogous to the legalization...

Of same sex marriage?

[Straw Man]

219. It absolutely is unwinnable.

Same-sex marriage used to be a culture war that was supposedly unwinnable. These days loving couples are free to marry while the hateful homophobes are on the retreat.

Same-sex marriage is a ho-hum to most conservatives, with the exception of the extreme evangelicals. Its passage caused barely a ripple in the American body politic. Do you really imagine that this would be the case with gun rights?

Let me remind you that in one case we're talking about protection of rights and in the other we're talking about abrogation of rights.

[melm00se]

197. Ahhhhhh, the Olympics...

the opportunity that comes around every 4 years for various groups and ideologies to get their undies in a knot and express their outrage and righteous indignation/condemnation.

[Glassunion]

198. Why are sports in general allowed at the Olympics?

Most Olympic ports are martial in nature or origin.

Shooting
Archery
Discus Throw
Hammer Throw
Javelin
Pole Vault
Boxing
Canoeing
Equestrian
Fencing
Gymnastics
Pentathlon
Judo
Hockey
Rugby
Taekwondo
Rowing
Wrestling

Should the Olympics simply be a two-day affair of opening ceremony, cycling, badminton, and table tennis?

[jmg257]

208. Too many countires, including the US, still place cudos on marksmanship programs and the like.

Shooting Sports are the natural result...like competition in any sport.

108 nations (most ever) had shooters in 2012, 97 countries this year. Not likely to change any time soon.

[Matrosov]

218. Many high schools used to have shooting teams

Teaching young people that guns and marksmanship are perfectly acceptable, and then we wonder why this 'developed' country has so many more firearm crimes than the rest of the world.

[sarisataka]

220. Not used to, do.

Shooting sports are fast growning activities in high schools. Minnesota recently held its state clay target championship.
http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/claytarget.asp

[LP2K12]

221. I was on my high school shooting team.

I carried my rifle to and from school on the school bus. Once I arrived at the school I carried it directly to the JROTC instructors who stored it in a secure vault until we stepped foot onto the firing line after school.

I graduated in 2004. The school still has the team. I went on to take first place at the state and district level. I also received a scholarship for it.

[jmg257]

223. Not just shooting teams teach guns are acceptable - millions grow up learning that at home.

Killing and committing other crimes - hopefully not so much.

Seems the latter is where the real problem lies.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

224. Do you realize that the Olympics have always been a contest of martial skills?

The javelin throw, shot put, running, jumping, etc. are all military competitions.

[LongtimeAZDem]

225. Sad, but true: