Should conservatism be classified as a mental disorder?

[Matrosov]

Being around hardcore conservatives every day, I'm not sure anymore if they suffer from a mental deficiency (aka they're fucking stupid) or a legitimate mental illness (aka their think their imaginary friends Reagan and Limbaugh whisper sweet nothings in their ears every morning)

[Yallow]

1. Yes - Obviously

If they don't want to hear the truth, and don't care if what they believe is fiction, then it is a mental disease.

Plain as day.

[ZombieHorde]

2. Belief in authority and rule of law should be classified as a

mental disorder.

[loyalsister]

3. No

Neither should racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, or ableism.

[NightWatcher]

4. It eats their brains. It turns off the reasoning part of the brain.

They are taught to follow orders without thinking about them. They are trained to believe whatever they're told. It turns them into assholes if it goes to the terminal stage.

I know several terminal stage republicans.

[Old and In the Way]

5. Go to opposite-world, aka Free-Republic.

They've been consistantly wrong about everything since the early 1990's. It's hard to tell today who are the loons and who are the trolls (Russlan and yank-crankers)....they all sort of blend in. Of course, you have the naive holy rollers that keep asking Jeebus to help the Republican Party win....I think he has them on a divine "do not call list".

[Marengo]

6. Yuri Andropov would certainly approve...

Why am I not surprised you would angle towards punitive psychology?

[ronnie624]

13. Are you familiar with the poster,

or are you implying something more general about DU or the political left?

[Marengo]

15. Directed towards the author of the OP. As for the rest of DU, I suppose the responses...

In this thread will be an indicator.

[Odin2005]

19. OP is the same poster outraged about shooting sports in the Olympics.

[Act_of_Reparation]

25. Forget implying, I'll say it outright:

It doesn't take much tooling around these parts to figure out it's still OK to throw certain marginalized groups under the bus. Scroll down and you'll a see a person, who just the other day wrote a wonderful post about white privilege, perpetuating the negative stigmas that make living with a mental illness much, much more difficult than it rightly ought to be.

[Matrosov]

28. Big difference between political dissidents and conservatism

Andropov wanted to use psychiatric suppression against anyone who opposed the Communist elites. I wasn't suggesting we do the same with anyone who opposes Democratic leadership.

On the other hand, when we look at conservative positions and see most of them are rooted in hate (anti-poor, anti-women, anti-People of Color, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim - even sometimes anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish; basically, if you're not a prosperous WASP, you're a worthless POS), there might honestly be a disturbing amount of psychopathy behind the conservative movement.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

31. Most conservatives are simply anti-big government

You seem to be going out of your way to validate their beliefs.

[Matrosov]

32. Yet they love the idea of Constitutional amendments..

..for things like outlawing same-sex marriage, abortion, etc. Conservatives are anti-big government only until big government can advance their social agenda.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. Then you're saying petitioning for one's preferred social policy is a mentsl disorder.

That makes pro-LGBT rights, pro-abortion rights, etc. mental disorders.

Are you pro-immigration because you're anti-American citizen? Are you pro-gay marriage because you're anti-traditional marriage?

Slow down. Stop looking for enemies. And if you demand a certain standard of behavior from others then be prepared to lead from the front.

[Matrosov]

35. I'm saying the source of one's preferred social (and fiscal) policy might be a sign

of mental disorder.

We need to stop treating disagreements as merely differences of opinion and analyze where these opinions originate.

If someone is anti-LGBT rights, do they simply have a different opinion? Hell no, they want to discriminate people based on their sexual orientation and gender identity.

There is a difference between inclusiveness and exclusiveness.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. You're seeking to label tens of millions of people mentally ill.

That sounds pretty crazy and well outside the norm of conventional behavior.

[Marengo]

48. Cool story, brah. I'm aware of the history of punitive psychology in the Soviet Union...

Which is why I mentioned it. You'll never convince me this isn't your ultimate motive.

[Matrosov]

60. At least you know your history

Though like I've said, there's a difference between political dissidents and conservatism. Would I classify Democrats who oppose HRC and still think Sanders should've won the nomination as suffering from a mental disorder? Not at all.

That's an honest difference of opinion. Opposing HRC because you honestly believe she's some commie bitch that wants to throw us into FEMA concentration camps and drown us in illegals and Muslims? Not so much. The latter is conservatism.

[Marengo]

66. My impression is that you are attempting to classify dissent from anything other than...

A source you approve of, essentially the same position within the political spectrum, as a form of mental illness. This is hardly benign, as this infers a threat and the need of some sort of treatment. What you are describing are the opinions of kooks who define themselves as conservatives, not necessarily the ideology itself.

[lonestarnot]

7. "Radical extreme repuliCONs," yes.

[shadowmayor]

8. Conservatism is a developmental disorder

A lack of empathy, fear of losing something, all the isms and a false sense of conviction.

[Gabi Hayes]

9. C=MI, baby....goes back over 15 years, when Salon table talk

was free. there was a many thousand, years long thread with that header

those were the days

dunno if it made it here; can't remember

[MrScorpio]

10. Let's go with all the above

Nothing about your choices makes them mutually exclusive.

[Nye Bevan]

11. Absolutely not.

You want to give people new legal protections under the ADA because they happen to be selfish bigoted assholes?

[nolabear]

12. Of course not. It's not even well defined in this context.

I hate posts that toss around terms to condescend. "Mental disorders" is a junk term and one person's "conservative" is another's rational.

[canetoad]

16. Thanks for that

saves me from questioning the idiocy of the OP.

[DawgHouse]

72. +1

[sarisataka]

14. Says it all

[cali]

17. No. Absurd.

[Odin2005]

18. OFFS, no.

Calling people mentally ill just because disagree with you politically is Stalinist-level BS.

[Orrex]

20. No, but how about calling it a parasitic infection?

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. I'm getting pretty goddamned tired of people cheapening mental illness.

Plenty of sane people are stupid. Plenty of sane people are complete assholes. Plenty of sane people are violent. Plenty of sane people are dogmatic idealogues.

Plenty of mentally ill people are none of those fucking things.

[Matrosov]

27. Psychopathy is also a mental illness

That doesn't mean every mentally ill person is a psychopath. Likewise, not every mentally ill person is a conservative. Though I reckon you'd find quite a bit of overlap between psychopaths and conservatives

[Act_of_Reparation]

30. Cool story.

I didn't know Wikipedia University had a psychology program.

[Odin2005]

78. Psychopathy is a personality disorder, which is not the same thing as a mental illness.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

22. Should conservatism be classified as a mental disorder?

It's not already?... Huh!

[Marengo]

23. Begs the question if it were to be, then what?

[ancianita]

64. Good question.

Pathologizing something political doesn't seem to help these days, since the label, "mental disorder" is seen as a political tactic rather than something fixable.

All one need do is look at conservative websites and see how much the Left is pathologized, as well.

[Marengo]

67. To me, the pathologizing of politics seems more acceptable recently. Even scientific and therefore..

Without question. I have to wonder where this will lead us. With the dismal state of historical knowledge in the USA, I'm left with a somewhat uneasy feeling.

[ancianita]

73. Think of re-education camps when you think of how the right would "fix" the Left's pathology.

Isn't that what the Leftist Mao did? When you think of pathologizing as "acceptable," think of ways that people construct reality by consensus, which we often construe as a "bubble." That way, the "acceptable" idea has limited boundaries. People will use medical metaphors for others' beliefs -- "cancer," "sick," "crazy." Don't take those too literally.

We shouldn't really go down the "politics as pathology" road, or else all connected views, from even fact-based personal opinions to fact-based world views or other current belief systems that don't support left wing politics, can get thrown into that diagnosis.

Doctors need much longer time to diagnose mental disorders than this campaign affords us laypeople, so my view is that we laypeople shouldn't diagnose politics as a mental disorder.

That is the way of fascists. For example, ask Trump who he thinks is "sick."

[Blue_Tires]

24. Mental health should never be politicized

end of story

[bigwillq]

26. No (nt)

[Brickbat]

29. Jesus Christ, listen to yourself.

[Matrosov]

34. I'm listening

What am I not hearing?

I hate when we try to elevate conservatives to a position of people simply having a different opinion. I don't mind different opinions. In fact, I reckon on the progressive spectrum, there is lots of room from different opinions, as long as those people can also argue their opinions in a logical manner.

Conservatives don't just have a different opinion, they're a fucking cancer. When their argument is to discriminate against people based on income, gender, race, religion, and so forth, and thereby 'making America great again,' those psychopathic fucks don't have much of an argument in the first place.

[Act_of_Reparation]

36. Here's what you're not hearing:

I hate when we try to elevate conservatives to a position of people simply having a different opinion.

Therefore, you think the mentally ill are lower than neurotypical people. You don't see why this might piss people off?

Curious.

And for just for chuckles, there's this:

When their argument is to discriminate against people based on income, gender, race, religion, and so forth, and thereby 'making America great again,' those psychopathic fucks don't have much of an argument in the first place.

Discriminating based on income, gender, race, and religion is bad. Discriminating against the mentally ill, on the other hand? Well, you get the idea.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

39. A solid reply. I honestly cannot foresee a "rational" argument against it.

Though I suspect, "You're either one of them or just as I'll so we can disregard whatever you say and you should probably be subjected to the same treatment." is still an option.

[sarisataka]

40. What do you suggest be done

with this cancer?

There once was a political group that felt the mentally ill, along with other groups, were a cancer on society. Some philosophies they didn't care for were also deemed mental illness. They came up with a solution...

[Matrosov]

42. Ah, yes, so now I'm a Nazi..

Not all mentally ill are equal. Their destructiveness matters a great deal.

Most mentally ill aren't destructive. Some only want to destroy themselves, and I don't see how we should do anything but try help them. Yet some - including conservatives and other psychopaths - want to destroy everyone who is simply different.

Once again, I'm not attacking conservatives for being different, I'm attacking them for their psychopathic drive to destroy everyone who is different.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

43. "I'm attacking them for their psychopathic drive to destroy everyone who is different."

You wrote that without the slightest hint of self-awareness.

[sarisataka]

45. Amazing, isn't it?

It is so easy to see the fault in the 'other' and so hard to see the hypocrisy in the 'self'.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

46. It would be humorous if the implications weren't so deadly.

[Act_of_Reparation]

47. And what hypocrisy it is.

Touting the virtues of empathy while unironically attributing variance in political persuasions to pathological psychology... slamming conservatives for their stupidity and lies despite being only dimly aware of the topic they themselves are discussing... decrying conservatives for discriminatory thinking while doing precisely the same thing... with MLK as an avatar... on a progressive forum...

Did I miss anything?

[Matrosov]

50. Don't forget the Russian username

Matrosov, a brave young men who threw himself onto a Nazi machinegun nest to save his comrades.

But let me guess, I'm not only a Nazi, because of that Russian username I'm also sitting in Moscow, having my pockets lined by Putin's Russian Troll Army, eh?

Then we wonder why HRC isn't going to pick up every single electoral vote in November, because shitting on conservatives, gun owners, etc, the vile cancer of the nation, is somehow disingenuous, even trolling, in the minds of many progressives.

[Act_of_Reparation]

51. Yeah, woe is you.

You belittle and demean the fucking disabled and you're the victim here? Are you fucking serious?

[Matrosov]

61. I've now made a distinction several times

Between various forms of mental disability/illness.

I'm putting conservatives on the same level as psychopaths. Should we feel sorry for the psychopaths and make them out to be victims?

[Marengo]

71. Are psychopaths not victims of mental illness?

[Act_of_Reparation]

77. And I've now rebuked your distinction several times.

Repeating the same half-assed, amateurish analysis several times doesn't make it one iota less half-assed or amateurish. You're not a psychologist. You're some random nobody with an internet connection and nothing better to do. You couldn't find a psychopath in a room full of nuns.

If that isn't enough to overcome your stubborn refusal to acknowledge the limitations of your expertise, let me break it down for you:

First:

Lack of empathy is only one trait indicative of psychopathy (or rather, antisocial personality disorder, as psychopathy is a collection of traits, not a recognized illness). Impulsiveness, criminality, aggression, manipulation, and an established pattern of irresponsibility are others.

One of these traits is not enough to diagnose. Two of these traits is not enough to diagnose. Several must be met, and then other more prevalent conditions that also present these symptoms must be excluded.

Are you qualified to make the distinction between a psychopath and paranoid schizophrenic? I'm guessing no.

Second:

The prevalence of antisocial personality disorder is quite low. The DSM-V puts it between 0.2% and 3.3%, a figure so unfathomably low that to suggest that even a significant minority of conservatives have it is just fucking absurd.

Third:

Again, you're not a professional. I'm guessing here -- and I think this is a fair assumption -- that you haven't had the opportunity to sit the majority of American conservatives down on your living room couch for a friendly chat. All you know about them is that they appear to have no empathy. Do they really have no empathy, or are they simply less empathetic than you'd like?

Guess we'll never know.

Fourth:

Mental illness has a very specific definition: a pattern of thought or behavior that inhibits one's socio-occupational functioning. Millions of conservatives function just fine in their day-to-day lives, ergo they are not mentally ill.

Fifth:

You're looking to clinical psychology to explain patterns of thought and behavior presented across a large, diverse population... which is a lot like trying to look at the sun through a fucking microscope.

Maybe pick a discipline with a tad more scope? Social psych for example? Sociology perhaps? No, they're not as straightfoward as clinical psych, and they don't come with a handly little book you can read online that makes you think you're qualified to talk about these things when you're clearly not, but I think you'll find they hold more explanative power in the longrun.

But what the fuck do I know.

[Marengo]

53. "Vile cancer of the nation" Dr. Goebbels, is that you?

[sarisataka]

62. I truly wish you were

"sitting in Moscow, having my pockets lined by Putin's Russian Troll Army" and not here dehumanizing people to the level of a disease.

Nor did I miss that your "disease" has already spread beyond the initial "infected" population.

[sarisataka]

44. It always starts with the best of intentions

Don't call it a Gulag, it is a re-education camp to help people see how they can be better members of society.

Of course it isn't because they are different. It is their thinking that is wrong. Once cured and shown how to think clearly the will agree and not be different... Sorry this is a road humans have travelled many times; it never ends well.

[Marengo]

49. wenn es wie eine Ente quakt

[BainsBane]

38. No

Political disagreement is not mental illness.

[Initech]

41. Um..............................

[Docbroke]

52. I vote no. However once we perfect gene editing technology

we should edit out the defective gene which makes CONservatives....

[Marengo]

54. We could call it ideological hygiene.

[sarisataka]

55. That is catchier

than eugenics...

[Marengo]

56. It's all in the packaging. Everyone loves clean, right?

[sarisataka]

68. Hygiene is important

Rassenhygiene, extremely so according to Alfred Ploetz:

In his book The efficiency of our race and the protection of the weak (1895) he described a society in which eugenic ideas were applied. Society would examine the moral and intellectual capacity of citizens to decide on marriage and the permitted number of children. It may also include a prohibition on reproduction. Disabled children are aborted, the sick and weak, twins and children whose parents Ploetz considers too old or young, are "eliminated".

Treating people like a cancer based on their political position is totally different. We're talking about psychopaths...

[Marengo]

69. I read part of that work. I can perceive the allure of the concept to certain personality types.

Ghastly shit cloaked in science.

[friendly_iconoclast]

58. Or 'ideological cleansing'...

[Docbroke]

65. I'd call it adding the success gene

we all know that whining and blaming others, while traits of CONservatives, does not translate into success in life.

[Marengo]

70. After all of both I've seen on DU, I wouldn't say conservatism holds a monopoly.

[LanternWaste]

57. Maybe we should classify only mental disorders as mental disorders.

Maybe we should classify only mental disorders as mental disorders, regardless of your allegation of imaginary people and sweet nothing inhabiting ears.

Unless there is an observable, measurable and testable (science, yaknow?) phenomenon inherent to, and only to conservationism (hint: there's not), maybe we should also stop pretending to be more clever than we really are.

[sakabatou]

59. No. It's almost an insult to those who have mental disorders

[ancianita]

63. Even the conservatism of the Constitutional signers was flawed. It was exclusionary, period.

Last edited Tue Aug 16, 2016, 06:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Its modern form, given what we understand to be inertia-by-design, is definitely a disorder of many levels of the corporate work of divide-and-commodify on the body politic.

This doesn't mean that the best of conservatives are disordered; hell, even they are dismayed, by force of conscience and some respect for science and democratic values, to see what they have been party to.

But I'd have to say, yeah, it's time to say that in the present historical context, conservatism -- now owned by corporate PR astroturfers -- no longer serves the best interests of the American people and their future generations.

[struggle4progress]

74. "Everybody who disagrees with me is crazy!"

[treestar]

75. some of them are

not for being conservative but for refusing to see reality. This can happen on the left too - remember Bernie supporters insisting he was going to win or now saying it must have been cheating.

[UnFettered]

76. This is actually the same type of thing

I would expect to hear from some knuckle dragging conservatives about liberals.

There are many reasons of why people believe the way they do. The country is vastly different in many ways and areas. Not everybody comes from the same background. Some people are just a product of there environment and don't know any better.

Now I will say there are plenty of stupid people out there. I hear from them daily myself
Mental disorder might be a bit much though.