Law prof on Olympic coverage: "This headline is a metaphor for basically the entire world"

[pnwmom]

Why should the AP give Phelps more attention for his silver medal than Ledecky got for her gold?


http://www.aol.com/article/2016/08/15/one-headline-about-phelps-and-ledecky-sparks-outrage/21451868/

[niyad]

1. that, and the one where "nfl spouse wins. . . " and "phelps and african-american"--the sexism

and racism are so blatant it is beyond painful.

[yeoman6987]

4. Phelps getting 23 medals total is more then a single medal

Accomplishment always wins especially world medal counts.

[pnwmom]

5. The article wasn't about his total medals. It was about that day. And how many of those medals

did he get wearing the kind of high-tech swimsuits they're now banned from competition?

In 2008 alone, he got 8 medals wearing a high-tech swimsuit that is no longer allowed under the rules.

[Travis_0004]

7. And n that day, Phelps is a better known more popular athlete.

[yeoman6987]

9. Phelps will get articles everyday for the rest of the Olympics and some after.

[treestar]

71. +1

All this explaining that his silver is bigger than her gold is so lame.

[niyad]

13. see post 11 and this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016165409

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028100005

[GaYellowDawg]

2. Well

Maybe because he's the GREATEST OLYMPIAN OF ALL TIME?? Including the ancient Greeks? I guarantee you that no one living today will ever see Phelps' medal count broken. EVER. Every time that Phelps adds a medal, he adds to the largest medal count by one individual in all history, and that's bigger news than Ledecky's gold. No one comes close to Phelps. Not Ledecky, not Bolt, not Jessie Owens, not Carl Lewis, no one. NO ONE. So if he glances sideways at the pool, he's bigger news than most, and he's bigger news than anyone when he medals.

Some people are flat out of their fucking heads to get poutraged about this. If a headline for Ryan Lochte was in bigger font than Ledecky, you'd have a point, but Jesus H. Christ eating brownies on a Ferris wheel, this is some stupid bullshit.

[pnwmom]

8. The article was about that day's performance, not his whole career. And Katie's 12 years younger.

How do you know she won't equal or surpass his record? Or that no one else will?

But maybe you're right. Phelps won at least 8 of his Olympic medals wearing the kind of high-tech swimsuit they're not allowing anymore, after 43 world records were set at a meet in 2009. New swimsuit rules mandate "only textile fabrics, banned zippers and restricted the amount of coverage from the waist to the top of the knees for men — so-called 'jammers' — and to the upper body and upper legs for women."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-olympics-swimsuits-20160805-story.html

Speedo was on the cutting edge of the swimsuit wars with its revolutionary LZR Racer, which was developed with help from NASA's wind tunnel testing facilities and became the go-to attire heading into the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

With polyurethane incorporated into the fabric and strategically placed panels that compressed the body in key spots, the suit helped a swimmer stay higher in the water and minimize resistance — essentially mimicking the effect of a dolphin gliding through the ocean.

Phelps was wearing the LZR when he won a record eight gold medals in China, famously capturing a $1 million bonus from Speedo. But by the following summer, the suit was basically rendered obsolete by the fully rubberized models that led the assault on the record books in Rome.

"Pretty much anybody could swim fast in those suits," Beisel said. "Now, you definitely need to be a hard worker and have some yardage and stuff under your belt. You can't just rely on the suits to make you fast anymore."

[jmg257]

24. Interesting - I guess Phelps was the only swimmer wearing those hi-tech suits that year?

[pnwmom]

26. American swimmers were wearing them, but they weren't being worn by swimmers all over the world.

Last edited Wed Aug 17, 2016, 01:00 AM - Edit history (1)

In 2008, while US swimmers wore the high-tech Speedo swimsuits that they'd signed contracts to wear, swimmers from other countries were wearing non-high tech suits from other manufacturers -- because they'd also signed contracts.

And then everyone saw the results in 2008 and wanted to wear Speedo.

In 2009, almost everyone wore Speedo at the World's, and 43 world records were set in swimming events. That's when the swimming association realized there was a problem in the escalating swimsuit wars.

[jmg257]

27. Cool thanks for the info! nt

[Skeeter Barnes]

45. The suits were made available for free to all competitors who wanted to use them.

Speedo gave away 3,000 of them to competitors at the games in Beijing.

[pnwmom]

65. What will it take for you to withdraw a personal attack?

I didn't say that the Phelps won his medals solely because of the suit. But he himself acknowledged that the suit was affecting the times of all the swimmers who wore them.

Were you aware that American swimmers wore Speedo suits because the team had a contract with Speedo? And the swimmers of other countries had signed contracts with other manufacturers. So they weren't all free to wear Speedo, even if the suits were provided to them.

[pnwmom]

64. You're forgetting that many of the other countries' swimmers had signed contracts with

competing companies, like the US swimmers had signed with Speedo. They couldn't wear the Speedo suits without breaking their contracts.

[Travis_0004]

28. All swimmers should wear this

That way its fair to all past records.

[GaYellowDawg]

49. That's your argument?

It was the swimsuit?

His career has been built by sustained excellence over four Olympic games, not just one. Phelps is the only swimmer in history to qualify for any event in 5 Olympics. He's the only swimmer in history to win an individual event four times running. But hey, if someone wanted to put forth a completely spurious argument and put an asterisk beside the 2008 Olympics, then fine, let's do that. Without the 2008 Olympics:

- Phelps has 20 medals. More than anyone else in history.
- Phelps has 18 gold medals. More than anyone else in history. Double the next best.
- Phelps has 16 individual medals. More than anyone in history.
- Phelps has 8 individual golds. More than anyone else in history.

So you can pretty much stop it with the swimsuit argument. Phelps was at his prime in the 2008 Olympics. And, because you wanted to pose a deceptive argument, you neglected to mention that all the other medal contenders had the suit, too. If they'd all been swimming in the suits they wore this year, Phelps would still have walked away with 8 golds. Oh, and by the way, Phelps set the world record in the 100m butterfly without the suit in 2009, set the world record in the 200m without the suit in 2009, and holds the eight fastest times ever recorded in the 400m individual medley. There has never been a greater swimmer, and never a greater Olympian.

The fact that you want to put an asterisk by his name because you're whiny about a headline is simply pathetic.

[TipTok]

57. He's also a genetic freak...

... And I mean that in an admiring way.

Saw an info graphic on it the other day. Short of gills, he was built to swim.

[pnwmom]

66. Phelps is 12 years older than Ledecky, and she's making a great start.

She won her first gold at age 15 and he didn't win any medals at the same age at his first Olympics.

She has plenty of time to catch up, and she won't win any medals with the assistance of a high-tech suit, as he did in 2008.

With regard to the 2008 Olympics, many swimmers couldn't wear the Speedo suits -- even though Speedo provided them -- because they were bound by contract to wear suits from other manufacturers -- just as US swimmers had agreed to wear Speedos. So the US won the swimsuit war of 2008 because they'd signed a contract with the best company.

[lame54]

84. ...

[brush]

79. The strokes and distances in swimming events offer many more opportunities . . .

to win medals than any other sport.

My hat is off to Phelps for his medal count but with so many races in freestyle, fly, breast stroke and all the rest of the myriad of strokes and distances, how could he not amass more medals than anyone?

IMO it got a little monotonous watching the same, unvarying back and forth, back and forth, back and forth visual of pool lanes with swimmers you can hardly see, day after day after day.

I got water-logged.

Thank God for the visual spectacle of gymnastics and track and field where you actually see and appreciated the athletes' skill and efforts.

[lame54]

86. "how could he not amass more medals than anyone?"...

by not swimming fast

[brush]

90. So many strokes and distances to win in in swimming devalues . . .

the medals' worth imo.

Usain Bolt's "fastest man in the world" title three Olympics in a row is much more impressive.

[lame54]

91. no devaluation here...

Phelps kicks ass

[lame54]

83. Don't these wins prove that he never needed the suit?...

that he is a kick as swimmer regardless?

[pnwmom]

85. He is a great swimmer nonetheless. But we don't know what his 2008 swims

would have been if he hadn't been wearing the suit and competing against some swimmers who were required (by commercial contract) to wear other suits. All the US team members benefited from the US contract that year with Speedo.

[lame54]

87. we can take an educated guess

[niyad]

12. see post 11 and this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016165409

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028100005

[deathrind]

14. Agreed.

Some of the "poutrage" (as you put) about this stuff is really over the top.

There was a post the other day about how horrible and sexist and selfish it was that a young man got on stage an proposed to his teammate/girlfriend who got a medal for diving right after the medal ceremony.

[Stubborn]

69. Agree. It's not helping the cause one bit. nt

[Orrex]

3. Wait a minute. AOL still exists?

I'd better fire up my Netscape and log into my Geocities account.

kick

[niyad]

10. oh good heavens, I never thought about geocities. astonishingly, I have friends who actually

still have, and use, ao-hell.

[Travis_0004]

6. Phelps is better known than ledecky

Phelps has more medals, phelps is probably the greatest swimmer of all time.

[niyad]

11. and you are so missing the point. the sexism and racism of the olympic coverage has been blatant

and continuous.

see this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016165409

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028100005

[Travis_0004]

15. But this is not one of those examples.

[niyad]

17. no, it is ANOTHER one of the ongoing sexism. how hard is that to understand?

[lame54]

88. that may be (definitely is) true but...

Phelps was a bad example to choose for your argument

[treestar]

19. She won the gold medal

That should make her a bit more famous. It should have been the bigger headline. Who cares if she was known before? She should be now

[davidn3600]

22. She'll get the bigger headline against Phelps when she wins her 23rd gold

[treestar]

33. I don't like the concept

That he's so damn important no one else matters even when they got a gold. Forget sexism. She should be of greater interest because she is the one on the rise. Him getting yet another medal is boring.

And as to the ancient Olympian he likely competed in many different event so mere number doesn't change the fact he was the greatest.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

40. This is his last Olympics

As well as Bolt's so you can rejoice if that makes you feel something.

[davidn3600]

16. Phelps is the greatest Olympic athlete of all time. Of course he will get more attention.

Newspapers aren't in the business of being fair. They are in the business of selling headlines. Phelps is far more popular around the world and is the most decorated Olympian of all-time. He's going to get the headlines and overshadow every other athlete, male and female. Is it fair? It depends on how you look at it. We will likely never see another athlete like Phelps again in our lives. He's got more than twice the gold medals than the best Olympians in history.

[niyad]

18. yawwwwwnnnnnn, and right on schedule. I really don't give a flying fig how great phelps is--

that does not excuse the sexism displayed against the women athletes.

[davidn3600]

29. How is it sexism to give the man who won 23 gold medals a bigger headline?

If Ledecky had 23 gold and wasn't getting the same attention, then you would have an argument.

Ledecky has 5 gold and is only 20. She's got time to rack up a bunch more. Her time will come.

[niyad]

32. you know, there is something so entertaining about mansplaining about what is, and isn''t, sexism.

but, honestly, we can tell all by ourselves. see some of the quotes in the article in the OP

[davidn3600]

36. Men have just as much right to comment on gender issues as women do

Unless of course you don't favor an equal world.

[niyad]

39. men have been explaining, in their favour, for seveal thousand years. but, do keep trying, we

can all use the laughs.

[davidn3600]

44. You know, it's funny....

I don't remember anyone here complaining about sexism when the women's gymnastics team was getting more attention then the men's. Heck, for most of the games, the mens were on TV late at night while the women were in prime time. Why was that? Maybe because the women were winning and getting better ratings? Probably. But you don't see men whining about every frickin' headline evaluating it under a magnifying glass for any semblance of sexism.

[pnwmom]

67. And then there was this lovely headline: "Phelps shares historic night with African American.”

Simone Manuel didn't even merit having her name in the title.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/12/simone-manuel-headline-apology-san-jose-mercury-news

[GaYellowDawg]

52. "Mansplaining." Nothing like slapping a cute label on condescension.

Especially when you're wrong.

[niyad]

72. no, I am not wrong. the mansplaining denial of obvious, blatant sexism IS, however, no

matter how much those doing it try to deny it. but, as I said before, keep trying. we need the laughs.

[treestar]

70. On this particular day he got silver and she got gold

So that does not explain it at all.

Hell normally the media thinks of a silver medal as a "loss."

[TipTok]

59. Media wants to sell...

... And there will never be as much interest in women's sports as men's.

Short of non sustainable bursts of flavor of the month of course.

Plus the whole 23 medal thing...

[snooper2]

80. don't worry, the SJW of the intertubes will make damn sure Ledecky gets her due!

[treestar]

20. At a point where he got a silver

And she a gold, she should have led. These excuses a e ridiculous. I don't care how great he is. Others count too.

[pnwmom]

21. His number includes at least 8 in 2008 with a now banned high tech swimsuit.

And good for him, he argued for a ban on these suits. But they did confer an advantage on the wearers.

[Travis_0004]

23. So what. He won with rules in place at the time, and I would assume everybody wore those swimsuits.

[pnwmom]

25. You assume wrong. Swimmers all over the world did NOT wear these Speedo suits. And they were banned

because they were believed to give the wearers unfair advantage. In 2009 43 world records were broken when everyone started wearing suits like this -- but they weren't in 2008.

[davidn3600]

30. It's irrelevent. Take out those 8 and he's the greatest.

[pnwmom]

34. Katie won her first gold Olympic medal at 15 -- he won no medals at his first Olympics at that age.

She's only 19 now and has a real chance to equal or even surpass his record -- without the help of any high tech swim suits.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/rio-2016/2016/08/07/michael-phelps-medals/88361712/

[Travis_0004]

37. And when she does, it will be in the headlines of the newpaper

[pnwmom]

38. Her golds this year deserved as much attention as his -- not to take a back seat to his silvers. n/t

[Calista241]

74. Phelps made Olympic history with that win. Katie Ledecky won a gold medal.

On that day, Katie Ledecky won just 1 of 35 gold medals handed out at the 2016 Summer Olympics. And she won a total of 3 golds and 1 silver, in one of the best performances at these Olympics. She was also sharing the limelight with dozens of other athletes at the pinnacle of their career.

To date, Michael Phelps is the greatest swimmer in the modern era, be it male, female, American or whatever. Phelps' shadow will be cast over the Olympic pool for decades, and announcers will be talking about him and his performances in the pool in 100 years.

Katie Ledecky is a great swimmer. If she continues her work, commitment and training, she has every chance to surpass Phelps in his achievements. On that day, I will cheer just as loud as everyone else, and her legacy will be just as prominent as Michael Phelps.

[Skeeter Barnes]

31. In Beijing, Speedo offered them free to any competitors who wanted to use them.

They gave away over 3,000 of them. So much for your idea that Phelps had an unfair advantage. Your attempt to put an asterisk next to some of his accomplishments is laughable.

[pnwmom]

35. I'm not the one who put an asterisk by his name. That was done by the swimming association

next to all the records set by wearers of high tech suits.

And Phelps himself argued that the suits should be banned. Otherwise, it wouldn't be the best swimmer winning, but the best swimsuit technology developed for each Olympics.

[Skeeter Barnes]

42. You are trying to diminish the accomplishments of the GOAT, claiming he had an unfair

advantage but he didn't have an unfair advantage. Anyone who wanted those suits had access to them for free. The only ones who didn't use them chose not to. Most did use them. They gave away over 3,000 of them at the Olympics in 2008.

[pnwmom]

46. I am repeating the arguments of Phelps himself. Sorry that you disagree. n/t

[davidn3600]

47. You know, I seriously doubt you'd be questioning the accomplishments if Phelps were a woman

....just a feeling.

[Skeeter Barnes]

48. No, you specifically said the US swimmers had the suits but not everybody else did.

The fact is, anyone that wanted them got them for free. Phelps enjoyed no unfair advantage and his performance will set the standard for generations. Even Katie Ledecky herself acknowledges he is the GOAT.

Time for me to go. Beach volleyball is on.

[pnwmom]

60. Not everyone wore the suits, and 2008-2009 was the beginning of an escalating swimsuit war.

In 2009 43 new world records were set and the swimming association finally decided to ban the suits -- with Phelps's blessing. He didn't want any part of his records to be affected by the swimsuit he wore.

[Skeeter Barnes]

61. I said everyone that wanted to could have, for free even. Rest assured the medal

contenders did. But you can have the last word. I have to be up at 1:30 am for work. Good night.

[pnwmom]

63. It wasn't till the US team, all of whom were wearing the suits, set so many records that many

swimmers realized how well the suits had worked. Till then there was good reason for thinking the Speedo hype was just hype.

There was also a Customs glitch that slowed the suits getting to the Olympics -- I've read about the glitch but not whether it affected any of the races.

Anyway, after the event there was data showing the swimsuit effect. And they decided not to allow the Olympic teams to get into escalating swimsuit wars over very expensive, high-tech swimsuits.

[snooper2]

81. In the next Olympics the swimsuits are going to really high tech- fucking insane actually!

[GaYellowDawg]

53. No, you're lying to try to prove a point.

It's pathetic.

[frazzled]

41. Swimmers can win more medals than other athletes

http://time.com/4447445/why-olympic-swimmers-win-the-most-medals/

I don't think, therefore, that he is necessarily the best of all times just because he has the most medals.

[Skeeter Barnes]

43. He still had to win them.

[GaYellowDawg]

54. Gymnasts can win just as many.

Team, all-around, and several different individual events. And yet Phelps is ten medals beyond the greatest gymnast in Olympics history.

[pnwmom]

68. And he got 8 of those medals wearing a now-banned swimsuit, in a 2008 competition

where swimmers in some other countries couldn't wear them.

US swimmers were bound by contract to wear Speedo suits. They lucked out because the Speedo suits made the swimmers more buoyant. 98% of the medals in 2008 went to Speedo wearers.

Some other countries had signed contracts with different manufacturers. They were out of luck. Even though Speedo gave them the buoyant suits, they weren't allowed to wear them.

After 2009 when swimmers wearing high tech suits broke 43 records, the swimming association banned them. But those records remain on the books, because they were legal then.

[Travis_0004]

55. Best of all time, pehaps not. Greater than Ledecky (at this moment) absolutely!

I wish Ledecky the best, but at this moment Phelps is the greater swimmer, so greater coverage is not suprising.

If I saw the article my fist question would have been "who os Ledecky"

[GaYellowDawg]

56. I would actually have to disagree with that

Phelps is the best of all time, but Ledecky is completely dominant right now and I would consider her the best swimmer on this Olympics team, male or female. She set two world records this Olympics and in the process beat the silver medalist in the 800m freestyle by 11 seconds. I've never seen a victory like that. She beat the other swimmers like the Bird-Magic-Jordan Dream Team beat other basketball teams. That kind of dominance. She is an incredible athlete and an incredible Olympian, and it's a shame that some turds on this board think they have to run down Phelps to support her.

[brush]

93. That's debatable. Being "The Fastest Man in the World" 3 Olympics in a row . . .

is quite a calling card.

That makes Usain Bolt as great if not greater than Phelps as far as Olympic athletes go.

[Renew Deal]

58. Phelps is the greatest of all time. Everything he does is newsworthy

Ledecky hasn't gotten there yet.

[niyad]

73. nor will she, as long as this kind of blatant, obvious sexism continues.

[Renew Deal]

75. Lochte never got the same attention as Phelps

Because of "blatant sexism" of course. You're asking for Ledecky to receive unequal treatment because of her gender, not her accomplishments.

[niyad]

77. and the denials just keep on coming. as I said, keep trying, we need the laughs.

[Renew Deal]

78. Indeed

[Skeeter Barnes]

62. Don't look now but she's on the cover of the newest Sports Illustrated. 2 women and 1 man.

[The2ndWheel]

76. You can find plenty of articles that talk only of Ledecky

There's really no shortage of coverage. He's still the bigger name at this point though, simple as that.

[yellowcanine]

82. Meh. Don't buy that newspaper then.

Seriously. People need to chill.

[Blue_Adept]

89. It's unfortunate that this is the ONLY article written about this event and moment

[Taitertots]

92. It's a metaphor. People getting worked up over trivial non-sense and ignoring important issues

It's grievance culture run amok.