Women: How feminine are you?

[unkachuck]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Bolo Boffin (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Has the price of the womens' movement been at the expense of femininity?

I see no reason why June Cleaver couldn't have been the CEO of Mobil Exxon instead of Ward Cleavers' stay-at-home wife. Is todays' woman obligated to hawk, scratch, spit and cuss like man to be a success? Aren't women more than guys without dicks? IMO, most women today are not feminine.

How feminine are you?

12 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Poll closed
	I'm feminine and completely agree with you.
	1 (8%)
	I'm feminine and you're full of shit.
	1 (8%)
	Femininity has nothing to do with the womens' movement.
	8 (67%)
	I'm not a feminine woman but I play one at work.
	0 (0%)
	I'm not a feminine woman, never have been, unnecessary.
	1 (8%)
	Other.
	1 (8%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Quantess]

1. How about, you just go sit on a tack and spin around?

Like I care what some windbag on the internet thinks about my tits! YOU ASKED FOR IT, asshole.

(edit for clarity)

[siligut]

4. I like your edit for clarity

Makes it real clear, lol.

[cwydro]

8. what you said

!!!

[Aerows]

27. +1000

You said everything I thought when I read this drivel.

[cwydro]

38. The OP seems to have fled with his tail between his legs..

...and to comment on HIS level: that's most likely all he has between his legs lol.

[Ken Burch]

41. All I can say to that is...

[Rowdyboy]

54. Ya think? Nice one.....

[gkhouston]

73. He'll be back...

as soon as he's consulted Miss Manners about whether the proper direction to stir shit is clockwise or counter-clockwise.

[Ken Burch]

48. That would be cruel...to the tack. n/t.

[obamanut2012]

80. +1

[Cali_Democrat]

125. LOL

[siligut]

2. You know we can see who votes how . . . don't you?

I just wanted to let you know.

[noamnety]

12. lol, that's classic. (nt)

[DURHAM D]

26. So Uncle Chuck checked that he is feminine.

I want to see a pic.

[Brickbat]

3. What the hell is it to you?

[EFerrari]

5. I've met every kind of woman you can imagine in the movement

and probably a few that you can't imagine.

They were all feminine.

[gkhouston]

42. ^^ This. n/t

[scarletwoman]

6. Define what you mean by "feminine".

And I'll reciprocate by offering you my definition of "obnoxious sexist jerk".

[ManyShadesOf]

52. +

[Dash87]

7. I really don't get what one has to do with the other.

So, to answer your question, no.

[Ken Burch]

9. I was on the jury for this, and voted to hide it.

For the life of me, I can't understand why this blatantly anti-woman poll wasn't hidden. How could ANYBODY think this was acceptable?

[cwydro]

35. I'm curious too

I would have voted to hide it...

[Rowdyboy]

61. I find it amazing that you could get one vote in favor of this shit, much less three...

Stunning and depressing. Guess we need to devote even more time to nuking trolls.

[cali]

66. thank you ken. I can't even begin to fathom how this was left up.

[Ken Burch]

67. I just alerted on it again.

I hope that they don't just leave it up because they somehow found a jury half-filled with misogynists the first time.

[cali]

68. I just posted a thread about it in Meta

time for the admins to step in.

[Ms. Toad]

76. I did the same and marked the TOS box

So it will get to the admins.

My experience, unfortunately, is that the admins to not respond to mysogyny the same way they respond to other bigotry. I suspect this will remain standing and that nothing will happen to the poster.

[muriel_volestrangler]

131. Can you post the results, if you haven't deleted the mail?

Several people have said, at least in Meta-Discussion, that they'd like to see if anyone voting to let it stay gave their reasoning.

[Ken Burch]

134. Here you go...unfortunately, none of the "leave it" votes explained their reasoning

(note...I was Juror No. 6)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=inbox&view=351318

The results:

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:27 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: lnsulting to all hard working women, in the home or outside it.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Vote for option #2.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: While I'd like to see a good war for fun my mature side says "no this is not okay".
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: What...the...FUCK????

Who posted this? Phyllis Schlafly after a three-day Lydia Pinkham's bender?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

(note: In the meta-thread discussing this incident, I've heard some posters argue that the OP was intended as "satire". Not sure why anybody would think that).

[noamnety]

10. Oh please

can you give us your definition of femininity? Should be good for some laughs.

[Ken Burch]

11. EVERY woman is feminine

Why do you hate the idea of women's equality?

[Evergreen Emerald]

13. ummm...I can kick your ass...in my heels and skirt. Is that feminine enough for you?

The stereotype definition of femininity as June Cleaver is not reality. And frankly, insulting.

"Spit and cuss like a man." Dang, men have it good. They can say and do what they want and still be successful. Women, conversely, must walk in heels and skirts and painted faces and act demure--"June Cleaver"--like at the office or be judged as "not feminine."

How about this: each individual human can be the best they can be without the shackles of societal stereotypes.

[longship]

14. Insulting.

No answer from me except my condemnation for your effrontery.

[Egalitarian Thug]

15. WTF is wrong with you?

[Oilwellian]

16. And to think...

Unkachuck has served on 38 juries.

[Quantess]

17. Thanks a lot for your obvious FLAMEBAIT.

How about you go shove a day old donut around your dick?
No seriously, go to the Feminism forum if you want real trouble.

[ohheckyeah]

18. How's this thread

working out for you?

[RainDog]

19. I would suggest you delete this post

because it is so clueless - and you will find many people do not want to see you here - either by putting you on ignore or by trying to get rid of you.

I bet most women think you're a real winner chicken dinner too.

[Quantess]

20. I alerted, and here's what I found in my mailbox instantly afterward:

You added the following comments:

Flamebait. He says in the OP "I don't think you women are feminine" while at the same time asking whether women are feminine, if at all possible, in the poll.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this post at Fri Jun 15, 2012, 04:27 AM, and voted 3-3 to keep it.

Thank you.

[longship]

22. I wish I had been on the jury

It might have been hidden. Still hoping that OPer will self delete and hang his head in shame. And I am a guy.

[steve2470]

23. agreed nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

114. Me too. That might be even more disturbing than this POS post/poll. n/t

[Lex]

21. Oh woe is all of womenkind that they might not be feminine enough to suit you!

What the actual fuck?

[Quantess]

24. No, women are not feminine. WTF?

Women are not feminine.
Womein are not feminine.
Women ar not feminine.
Women are not feinine
Women are not feminine
Women are not feminine
Women are nt feminine.


But you are stupid!

Edit to add: Do you get it yet, asshole? Women ARE feminine BY DEFINITION. Try and argue that. Go ahead, you lose.

[DURHAM D]

25. I see you are the only one who has checked the top choice.

I assume you are actually a man and this is a fantasy thing you are doing. Could you post your picture? Let us vote.

[Habibi]

28. When you got up this morning,

what century did you think it was?

[JI7]

29. WTF ?

[joshcryer]

30. Account suicide? This is atrocious. Especially since you say you're male...

...and voted for the top option. Not that there can't be feminine males...

[TBF]

103. Thank you - nice to have a male say it.

it is a ridiculous poll.

[seabeyond]

31. lonely, much? nt

[GoneOffShore]

32. Eff off you silly prat.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

33. What is it about the women of today you find unfeminine?

I don't know any women who hawk, scratch, spit and cuss like man. I'm not sure where you're coming from. Have you been hanging around a hard core biker gang?

[amuse bouche]

34. lol

What a dumb thread

Edit to add the only one that agreed with unkachuck was unkachuck

Now that is too funny. I think they call that...Hoisted by his own Petard

[Ken Burch]

44. And it's a really SHORT petard at that...

(...if you know what I mean...)

[Mira]

37. And how masculine are you? go and find the current "Penis" thread

and enter your stats, we'll all know it's you because we now have polls where voting isn't secret.

Your criterion about what is "feminine" equally silly as the one I'm proposing.
Get a clue.

[Ken Burch]

40. uh..."enter your stats"?

Are we talking...er...measurements?

(on second thought, that might be useful info, since the OP clearly has what George Costanza would call "a shrinkage problem".)

[Mira]

47. Yup - measurements - link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018134392

[fizzgig]

39. i voted that the movement has nothing to do with feminity

but i could have also voted that i've never been a particularly feminine woman.

that said, why do you give a shit how "feminine" women are? why do you want to pigeonhole us into the false and outdated gender binary? i'm not successful at my job because i spit in public, i'm successful because i work my ass off.

[Ken Burch]

43. All I can say is

You're lucky Katniss Everdeen didn't see this poll.

[cwydro]

46. Yeah,

and as much fun as it is to play with this cretin...I think I won't bump his thread anymore.

What a moron.

Surely they cannot hide your post as a personal attack; the OP just insulted women in general and that was given a pass...

[Rowdyboy]

51. I would wear it as a badge of honor if it was hidden....However its nearly impossible to

imagine 4 of 6 DUers agreeing to censor me when this offensive bullshit is allowed to stand.

[ManyShadesOf]

57. or as the neighbor said

"That's enough, Fuckstick"

[Rowdyboy]

58. Indeed

Fuckstick, Indeed...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

124. strongly seconded

[GObamaGO]

49. WTF

[Jamastiene]

50. Did anyone else notice the only vote in favor of this OP is by the original poster?

That says it all.

Some days, I miss un-Rec tremendously.

[Rowdyboy]

53. Unrec hell, if MIRT is limited to low post counts then the admins need to know

This sickens me.

[Jamastiene]

120. True that.

I think there are some people gaming the jury system...when I see these cases of clear TOS violations NOT get hidden. It's disgusting.

[Matariki]

55. jeezus.

[Rowdyboy]

62. Loved your original post

[ManyShadesOf]

56. All of us

[Gemini Cat]

59. In the circles I run in

I've never witnessed anyone (male or female) hawking, spitting, scratching, or cussing without good reason. You must run with weird people.

[Raine]

60. I'm a real "girly girl" but cross me and

I'll find a way to make you wish you were never born. I'll do it in a very lady like way and you won't see it coming.

[Ken Burch]

70. Sort of like THIS?

[PotatoChip]

63. Wow. Apparently really strange things happen in the middle of the night.

Gigantic un-spaced thread titles, people talking about bombing the moon, and now this. Wtf?

By the time I usually get up, DU3 looks entirely different.

[gkhouston]

71. They all return to their coffins before the sun comes up. n/t

[cali]

65. keep on alerting, fellow duers. this cannot be allowed to stand.

[seabeyond]

97. i was wondering if that post was going to make it.... sorry cali. nt

[yardwork]

99. Repeated alerts won't seat another jury. Write to Skinner.

[hlthe2b]

123. If repeated alerts with TOS violation checked are sent....

Do admins get all of them? Or only the first one?

Important for someone to clarify, as if the latter is true, then we are wasting our time and should be emailing Skinner directly.

Can anyone comment with certainty?

[Ken Burch]

69. This is basically the same as starting polls titled

"Black people: Do You Know Your Place?"
"LGBT's: Are You Staying In The Closet Like You're Supposed To?"
"Muslims: Have You Stopped Blowing Shit Up Yet?"

[marions ghost]

72. Exactly

your examples are excellent

Guess he likes the women in the L'Oreal ads popping up simultaneously...as if beauty can come out of a spray bottle and ensure "femininity"... let's talk about that delusion and how it spawned a gazillion dollar industry.

OP = Divisive Inflammatory Crap.

[From The Ashes]

74. I'm feminine...

...and you're an asshole. See how that balances out, asscarrot?

[LiberalLoner]

75. why is this still here?

Has anyone alerted Skinner yet?

This is incredibly offensive to women. Is this kind of thing acceptable now on DU?

If it is, I need to cancel my automatic payments to DU and leave.

[Ms. Toad]

77. I alerted and checked the TOS box

so it should land in his in box.

I'd suggest people keep alerting, since my experience is that mysogyny is tolerated around here in a way that other bigotry isn't. If the admins hear loud and clear from lots of folks, maybe this time will be different.

[LiberalLoner]

79. I did too but only got the automated reply.

Misogyny IS tolerated around here, isn't it? It seems that the war on women has found its way here and this thread is a startling example of that.

When even the liberal men think it's okay to harm women....we have a real problem on our hands.

I have never been so afraid for my sisters in this country as I have been this past year. It's getting very very ugly. It doesn't take much of an imagination to think of where all this will end in America....

[Ms. Toad]

94. The automated reply will be the only visible response

It does still wind up in the admins box for their review. We just won't hear anything unless they decide to PPR the person who started the thread (and that we'll only know by checking user profiles).

Things are bad - but it is perhaps like the increased vitriol against LGBT folks at the same time we are closer than ever to obtaining recognition of our marriages. The last gasp of people who know they are about to lose.

[LiberalLoner]

100. I hope you are right. I've been fighting against this kind of stuff all my life though

And I am getting very, very tired of it.

And heartbroken to see it condoned on a site that I thought might be on our side as women.

[Oilwellian]

118. Yes, it is acceptable

And what's even more depressing? Unkachuck has served on 38 juries so far. With people like unkachuck judging fellow DU'ers, it's no surprise to see this OP still standing. It's a terrible system and is the main reason why I no longer have a star after 10 years of loyal support.

[LiberalLoner]

122. I wonder if we could write to Rachel Maddow about all of this if she would cover it?

After all, liberals are supposed to be on OUR side on the war against women, not AGAINST us.

[retread]

78. Misspelled your user name should be UPKACHUCK!!

[obamanut2012]

81. I cannot believe this was juried 3-3

[maddezmom]

82. and the OP is a hit and runner

flamebait for the purpose of flames.

[obamanut2012]

88. Yeah, I noticed that, too

[cyberswede]

105. Yep

I suppose asking for a self-delete would be fruitless...

[yardwork]

91. I can't believe that some people are defending it. I feel like I'm in Twilight Zone.

[LiberalLoner]

101. This.

[obamanut2012]

121. +1

[redqueen]

83. Femininity has nothing to do with the women's movement?

Perhaps in a way it does. The right to NOT be feminine and not be treated unfairly for it is still not fully realized.

So yeah, IMO it kinda does have something to do with the women's movement.

And something tells me all those women who don't pass your femininity test, even collectively, couldn't give a fraction of a fuck.

[LiberalLoner]

84. LOL THIS! :)

[rhett o rick]

95. It amazes me that we can have a discussion like this when it is obvious

people have different definitions of femininity. Wiki says that femininity is more than simply being biologically female it includes "socially defined factors". I can see where conservatives and progressives would disagree on the "social defined factors".
Conservatives would conclude that femininity has nothing to do with the women's movement while progressives would disagree. I am guessing the OP is conservative.

Personally I would have a hard time identifying "socially defined factors" that define femininity.

What is your definition of femininity?

[redqueen]

107. Its all the stuff that is sterotypically defined as womanly.

It's all socially constructed nonsense. If anyone, male or female, likes to be feminine, that's their right.

I personally do not find it helpful but we are products of our environment. As for me personally, Im pretty feminine, but I have the presence of mind to question it. That's the important thing, mindfulness. That's the road to progress imo. I have stopped shaving my legs and underarms because I realized I was doing that for other people and not myself. I style my hair and wear makeup for myself.

[rhett o rick]

110. I agree it's socially constructed nonsense. nm

[Jamastiene]

119. Great post.

The OP obviously has issues...bad ones.

[arcane1]

130. Well said!

[rhett o rick]

85. I see the OP rec'd his own OP. I didnt think that possible. nm

[yardwork]

93. They responded to their own poll claiming to be "feminine," too. In profile they say they are male.

[rhett o rick]

96. I didnt know that it is possible to rec your own OP. Otherwise my OPs would have gotten

at least one rec.

[yardwork]

98. You might not want to follow this one's example, though. This one is not exactly Emily Post.

[rhett o rick]

113. I understand. nm

[Chorophyll]

86. This, on DU? Really?

Feminine THIS. And the horse you rode in on.

[StarryNight]

87. what exactly is "femininity?' serious question. nt

[redqueen]

109. Behaviors and other characteristics stereotypically associated with women.

Anything from doing your hair, wearing makeup, dressing in a 'pretty' way... to being demure in mannerisms and affecting a softer, higher pitched speaking voice than comes naturally.

[yardwork]

89. You identify as male but you responded to your post claiming to be "feminine."

And you state "Most women today are not feminine."

I have a question. Do you know any women or do you spend all your time inside by yourself? Serous question.

[seabeyond]

90. i was thinking yesterday walking into the grocery store, seein the women scratch, spit along the way

what happened to feminism?

[Starry Messenger]

92. What in actual fuck?

[TBF]

104. Ridiculous, and I'm sure it's already been alerted on.

I think it may be time for a break from this forum, for me at least.

[LiberalLoner]

106. I'm feeling that way too.

[Starry Messenger]

117. It was, and allowed to stand 3-3.

I'm on FB more and more these days because of horseshit like this.

[hifiguy]

102. Clearly we have our own morans here.

The mind shrivels.

[LanternWaste]

108. Been a while since you've had a date, huh?

Been a while since you've had a date, huh?

Bless your little heart...

[unreadierLizard]

111. I didn't realize DU was a dating site. n/t

[stevenleser]

112. This OP is impressive in terms of the amount of fail in a short OP.

That's something. I guess.

[steve2470]

115. Three points:

Last edited Fri Jun 15, 2012, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

1- If this was meant as satire, it's Stephen Colbert on steroids. Usually I can detect satire, but I've taken this as completely serious and probably the result of intoxication.

2- If it's satire, it has no place on DU.

3- If it's serious, it DEFINITELY has no place on DU and the poster may want to consider leaving forever or at minimum, making a very sincere apology to the whole of DU.

[rox63]

116. Someone should tell this guy

That it will be a cold day in hell the next time he gets any from a women who's seen this post.

[Solly Mack]

127. Polls hath no fury like an asshole scorned.

[lapislzi]

128. Other: kiss my ass

There is so much wrong with this OP and poll that I don't know where to begin. I apologize to my fellow DUers for even responding to such rubbish, but I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut where these matters are concerned.

[arcane1]

129. I read this OP three times and I still don't understand it

maybe it's because I don't fit the offensive male stereotype depicted therein

[Blue_In_AK]

132. I find it fascinating that this offensive post still stands

while Devilgrrl's sarcastic rejoinder was hidden by jury decision. What's up with the double standard?

[The empressof all]

133. Well I hope this post just made your day....

You win the internets posting ignorant stupid crap award today.

[LaurenG]

135. Why is this still here? Sharks have been jumped today and it's disgraceful. nt

[Zorra]

136. *sigh* That's just so wrong, on so many levels.

unkachuk, - for your own good, please consider going to see a non-religious female counselor about your attitude towards women, if you can afford it.

If you listen to her, and comprehend what she is saying to you, it will broaden your understanding of the entire world immensely.

Since you are a straight man, this will profoundly improve quality of any relationships you might have with women after you finish your therapy, provided you are humble, and take what the therapist has to tell you to heart.

Good luck.

[cynatnite]

137. I have no words. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

138. Feminity and masculinity are not real things. They're just cultural, abstract concepts.

So, a woman can appear to be less or more feminine than average to an observer, but the observer is actually only observing his or her own cultural biases.

Your OP is not about women, it is about your relationship to your constantly changing culture.

[whatchamacallit]

139. I'd probably be mad about this OP if I could understand it

Wtf are you babbling about?

[Warren DeMontague]

140. "Well, whaddaya expect. They're Canadian"

Edit: I fully acknowledge that this post may get hidden. I just want to say, right now, it was TOTALLY worth it.

[Taverner]

141. Here's a monkey wrench: Who's definition of "feminine" are we using?

Even in the US, you'll get a thousand different answers.

Is feminine wearing lipstick? Is it dressing modestly? Immodestly?

"Feminine" is a moving target

[rocktivity]

142. Well, why COULDN'T June Cleaver have been the CEO of Mobil Exxon?

Because she was pretty? Because she dressed well? Because she was mannerly and socially gracious as opposed to being someone who "scratched, spat, and cussed?"

If most women today are not feminine, I say, "HOOORAY!"


rocktivity

[Rex]

143. "Aren't women more than guys without dicks?"

Your ability to prognosticate is truly outstanding.

The shit that gets passed off as credible dialog on DU has de-evolved into - "Aren't women more than guys without dicks?"


Sad. Pathetic. Wrong.

[Bolo Boffin]

144. Locking.

Sorry this lock is so late, folks.